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John Nice 
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 Posted: 07 Jun 2022 at 11:09am |
 Banjaxed wrote:
horsebox wrote:
He needs to be playing regularly for his club before he gets called up to the senior squad. Even in the u21 games where he excelled at times, he was still anonymous, and goes missing for large periods.
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We really need to temper expectations when it comes to Will. Especially when it comes to what he will offer us. Personally, I don't think he's the answer to a lot of our shortcomings in the current set up.
For me he's an attacking midfielder. Definitely has a bit more guile and invention than our current midfielders, but as mentioned above... he goes missing. Join the long list of Irish midfielders unfortunately...
Wes Hoolahan he isn't. Not as a direct comparison, but when it comes to their strengths. Wes NEVER went missing, not because he wasn't lazy, or didn't lack concentration, etc but because the fundamental footballing mission statement in Wes Hoolahan's head was ..."I want to be on the ball ALL the time. Give me the ball. " If he wasn't on the ball, he was trying his best to position himself so that he could get on the ball.
That is the player we are lacking. Not a pointer but someone who will take the ball anywhere on the pitch and keep play moving in a positive manner.
I'd have Will in the squad, but Kenny's aspirations of how he wants us to play requires someone who is fearless. We don't have that player sadly. |
Will Smallbone will play at a higher level than Wes ever did, fitness permitting, but you are right he's not even close to a replica. However he offers something clearly lacking in our squad and that is the ability to both score a goal from midfield and to create from deep. If the Italy game turns out to be a dead rubber i.e. if Italy beat Sweden, then 100% he should be in the squad for our remaining senior games. He can do a job as the advanced midfielder in the front 3, even off the bench if we need a goal. He's a man in form, 3 goals in 2 games, he looks fit, sharp and it's no surprise to me that one of the best young managers in the game i.e. Steve Cooper is looking to take him to Forest in advance of their return to the Prem. I have been banging this drum for a long time (long before the last 2 U21 games), but he is not a player we can afford to lose. Noss is another who we should be doing our best to keep on board.
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John Nice
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 07 Jun 2022 at 11:12am |
John Nice wrote:
Banjaxed wrote:
horsebox wrote:
He needs to be playing regularly for his club before he gets called up to the senior squad. Even in the u21 games where he excelled at times, he was still anonymous, and goes missing for large periods.
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We really need to temper expectations when it comes to Will. Especially when it comes to what he will offer us. Personally, I don't think he's the answer to a lot of our shortcomings in the current set up.
For me he's an attacking midfielder. Definitely has a bit more guile and invention than our current midfielders, but as mentioned above... he goes missing. Join the long list of Irish midfielders unfortunately...
Wes Hoolahan he isn't. Not as a direct comparison, but when it comes to their strengths. Wes NEVER went missing, not because he wasn't lazy, or didn't lack concentration, etc but because the fundamental footballing mission statement in Wes Hoolahan's head was ..."I want to be on the ball ALL the time. Give me the ball. " If he wasn't on the ball, he was trying his best to position himself so that he could get on the ball.
That is the player we are lacking. Not a pointer but someone who will take the ball anywhere on the pitch and keep play moving in a positive manner.
I'd have Will in the squad, but Kenny's aspirations of how he wants us to play requires someone who is fearless. We don't have that player sadly. |
Will Smallbone will play at a higher level than Wes ever did, fitness permitting, but you are right he's not even close to a replica. However he offers something clearly lacking in our squad and that is the ability to both score a goal from midfield and to create from deep. If the Italy game turns out to be a dead rubber i.e. if Italy beat Sweden, then 100% he should be in the squad for our remaining senior games. He can do a job as the advanced midfielder in the front 3, even off the bench if we need a goal. He's a man in form, 3 goals in 2 games, he looks fit, sharp and it's no surprise to me that one of the best young managers in the game i.e. Steve Cooper is looking to take him to Forest in advance of their return to the Prem. I have been banging this drum for a long time (long before the last 2 U21 games), but he is not a player we can afford to lose. Noss is another who we should be doing our best to keep on board. |
In fact Noss strikes me as a player much more in the Wes mould. He still has to develop physically, but he was busy, creative, wanted the ball in the half spaces in front of the defence and was probably the most dangerous player on the pitch in that first 45 vs Montenegro.
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King_Kenny
Liam Brady
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Posted: 07 Jun 2022 at 11:22am |
Borussia wrote:
Maccatacca wrote:
Genuine question, how much Premier League experience did the likes of Billy Gilmour and Ethan Ampadu have when they were first capped by Scotland and Wales?
Smallbone plays in a position that has been a problem for us since Wes retired and should be given a chance with the seniors ahead of the proper qualifiers in March.
We can't persist with Hendrick or Hourihane as the creator in midfield.
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Think Gilmour had around 11 senior games. |
Heard the co commentator in the wales game the other night saying they capped Harry Wilson at 16 to keep him out of England‘s hands. We need to be a bit faster and smarter definitely.
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J89
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Posted: 07 Jun 2022 at 11:30am |
King_Kenny wrote:
Borussia wrote:
Maccatacca wrote:
Genuine question, how much Premier League experience did the likes of Billy Gilmour and Ethan Ampadu have when they were first capped by Scotland and Wales?
Smallbone plays in a position that has been a problem for us since Wes retired and should be given a chance with the seniors ahead of the proper qualifiers in March.
We can't persist with Hendrick or Hourihane as the creator in midfield.
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Think Gilmour had around 11 senior games. |
Heard the co commentator in the wales game the other night saying they capped Harry Wilson at 16 to keep him out of England‘s hands. We need to be a bit faster and smarter definitely.
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Wales capping Wilson was a joke. There was 13 months between his first ever appearance in a Wales shirt and his second. Played for the seniors October 2013 and didn't make a second appearance until November 2014 for their U19s.
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John Nice
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Posted: 07 Jun 2022 at 11:43am |
J89 wrote:
King_Kenny wrote:
Borussia wrote:
Maccatacca wrote:
Genuine question, how much Premier League experience did the likes of Billy Gilmour and Ethan Ampadu have when they were first capped by Scotland and Wales?
Smallbone plays in a position that has been a problem for us since Wes retired and should be given a chance with the seniors ahead of the proper qualifiers in March.
We can't persist with Hendrick or Hourihane as the creator in midfield.
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Think Gilmour had around 11 senior games. |
Heard the co commentator in the wales game the other night saying they capped Harry Wilson at 16 to keep him out of England‘s hands. We need to be a bit faster and smarter definitely.
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Wales capping Wilson was a joke. There was 13 months between his first ever appearance in a Wales shirt and his second. Played for the seniors October 2013 and didn't make a second appearance until November 2014 for their U19s. |
I'm not sure why it's a joke! They did the same with Woodburn, Ampadu etc. Several of our most promising U21s are at least dual qualified - Smallbone, Coventry, Noss, Mc Guinness, Bagan, Adaramola. Some would not look particularly out of place in our senior squad, Smallbone should already be there on merit imo.
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Dunne23
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Posted: 07 Jun 2022 at 11:50am |
Borussia wrote:
horsebox wrote:
He needs to be playing regularly for his club before he gets called up to the senior squad. Even in the u21 games where he excelled at times, he was still anonymous, and goes missing for large periods.
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100% this. The jump up to senior from Under 21s is large as the likes of Parrott has proved already. |
Agree with this too. While he has shown some great moments, I thought he went missing a little at times particularly in the game previous. Definitely a lot of potential there though!
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Borussia
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Posted: 07 Jun 2022 at 11:50am |
John Nice wrote:
J89 wrote:
King_Kenny wrote:
Borussia wrote:
Maccatacca wrote:
Genuine question, how much Premier League experience did the likes of Billy Gilmour and Ethan Ampadu have when they were first capped by Scotland and Wales?
Smallbone plays in a position that has been a problem for us since Wes retired and should be given a chance with the seniors ahead of the proper qualifiers in March.
We can't persist with Hendrick or Hourihane as the creator in midfield.
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Think Gilmour had around 11 senior games. |
Heard the co commentator in the wales game the other night saying they capped Harry Wilson at 16 to keep him out of England‘s hands. We need to be a bit faster and smarter definitely.
|
Wales capping Wilson was a joke. There was 13 months between his first ever appearance in a Wales shirt and his second. Played for the seniors October 2013 and didn't make a second appearance until November 2014 for their U19s. |
I'm not sure why it's a joke! They did the same with Woodburn, Ampadu etc. Several of our most promising U21s are at least dual qualified - Smallbone, Coventry, Noss, Mc Guinness, Bagan, Adaramola. Some would not look particularly out of place in our senior squad, Smallbone should already be there on merit imo. |
I believe capping players to keep them is 100% wrong - Not right or fair on young players and also not right for our national team. If lads don't want to play for us then good luck to them - I want players that want to be here.
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J89
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Posted: 07 Jun 2022 at 11:57am |
John Nice wrote:
J89 wrote:
King_Kenny wrote:
Borussia wrote:
Maccatacca wrote:
Genuine question, how much Premier League experience did the likes of Billy Gilmour and Ethan Ampadu have when they were first capped by Scotland and Wales?
Smallbone plays in a position that has been a problem for us since Wes retired and should be given a chance with the seniors ahead of the proper qualifiers in March.
We can't persist with Hendrick or Hourihane as the creator in midfield.
|
Think Gilmour had around 11 senior games. |
Heard the co commentator in the wales game the other night saying they capped Harry Wilson at 16 to keep him out of England‘s hands. We need to be a bit faster and smarter definitely.
|
Wales capping Wilson was a joke. There was 13 months between his first ever appearance in a Wales shirt and his second. Played for the seniors October 2013 and didn't make a second appearance until November 2014 for their U19s. |
I'm not sure why it's a joke! They did the same with Woodburn, Ampadu etc. Several of our most promising U21s are at least dual qualified - Smallbone, Coventry, Noss, Mc Guinness, Bagan, Adaramola. Some would not look particularly out of place in our senior squad, Smallbone should already be there on merit imo. |
There was around three and half years between his first senior squad and second senior squad. Had to wait another 12 months for his third senior squad and second cap. It was a joke because they only gave him a cap to stop him going anywhere and then pushed him aside for a few years. At least Woodburn and Ampadu were kept in squads and played after their first caps and not just three mins off the bench and tossed aside for over four years. Ampadu was even an unused sub in four qualifiers before making his debut in a friendly. Technically some of our most promising U21s are already in the senior squad.
Edited by J89 - 07 Jun 2022 at 11:58am
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John Nice
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Posted: 07 Jun 2022 at 11:59am |
Borussia wrote:
John Nice wrote:
J89 wrote:
King_Kenny wrote:
Borussia wrote:
Maccatacca wrote:
Genuine question, how much Premier League experience did the likes of Billy Gilmour and Ethan Ampadu have when they were first capped by Scotland and Wales?
Smallbone plays in a position that has been a problem for us since Wes retired and should be given a chance with the seniors ahead of the proper qualifiers in March.
We can't persist with Hendrick or Hourihane as the creator in midfield.
|
Think Gilmour had around 11 senior games. |
Heard the co commentator in the wales game the other night saying they capped Harry Wilson at 16 to keep him out of England‘s hands. We need to be a bit faster and smarter definitely.
|
Wales capping Wilson was a joke. There was 13 months between his first ever appearance in a Wales shirt and his second. Played for the seniors October 2013 and didn't make a second appearance until November 2014 for their U19s. |
I'm not sure why it's a joke! They did the same with Woodburn, Ampadu etc. Several of our most promising U21s are at least dual qualified - Smallbone, Coventry, Noss, Mc Guinness, Bagan, Adaramola. Some would not look particularly out of place in our senior squad, Smallbone should already be there on merit imo. |
I believe capping players to keep them is 100% wrong - Not right or fair on young players and also not right for our national team. If lads don't want to play for us then good luck to them - I want players that want to be here. |
You are obviously not alone in that, most of us do, but the whole sporting landscape has changed regarding nationality and we cannot afford to do nothing while others take advantage. I'm not saying it's right or desirable, but I'd be capping Smallbone on Saturday nonetheless!
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zizu Kilbane
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 07 Jun 2022 at 12:18pm |
Borussia wrote:
horsebox wrote:
He needs to be playing regularly for his club before he gets called up to the senior squad. Even in the u21 games where he excelled at times, he was still anonymous, and goes missing for large periods.
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100% this. The jump up to senior from Under 21s is large as the likes of Parrott has proved already. |
I agree with this assessment. Lad has loads of potential, clearly, but he's still a novice and injury prone.
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"Sometimes, sh*t happens, someone's gotta deal with it, and who ya gonna call?"
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horsebox
Robbie Keane
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Posted: 07 Jun 2022 at 12:21pm |
Just look at what happened with Obafemi, he got a slating off the back of a sub appearance.
Peoples expectations are too unrealistic.
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It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me,
He wouldn't set me free,
So he kept me soul for ransom.
na na na na na na na na na
na na na na na na na na.
I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to
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SC92
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Posted: 07 Jun 2022 at 12:27pm |
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I rate him but think he needs more experience. Also while he is still eligible for the u21s which it's his latest cycle so I'd keep him there he's been massive for them.
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J89
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Posted: 07 Jun 2022 at 12:38pm |
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Commentator said last night the U21s are out of camp until Friday and can return home for a few days. Hopefully some of them are asked to stay around with the seniors to train.
They've already had a few weeks off and away on holidays before the camp, and would be more beneficial for some to train with the seniors.
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King_Kenny
Liam Brady
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Posted: 07 Jun 2022 at 1:12pm |
Borussia wrote:
John Nice wrote:
J89 wrote:
King_Kenny wrote:
Borussia wrote:
Maccatacca wrote:
Genuine question, how much Premier League experience did the likes of Billy Gilmour and Ethan Ampadu have when they were first capped by Scotland and Wales?
Smallbone plays in a position that has been a problem for us since Wes retired and should be given a chance with the seniors ahead of the proper qualifiers in March.
We can't persist with Hendrick or Hourihane as the creator in midfield.
|
Think Gilmour had around 11 senior games. |
Heard the co commentator in the wales game the other night saying they capped Harry Wilson at 16 to keep him out of England‘s hands. We need to be a bit faster and smarter definitely.
|
Wales capping Wilson was a joke. There was 13 months between his first ever appearance in a Wales shirt and his second. Played for the seniors October 2013 and didn't make a second appearance until November 2014 for their U19s. |
I'm not sure why it's a joke! They did the same with Woodburn, Ampadu etc. Several of our most promising U21s are at least dual qualified - Smallbone, Coventry, Noss, Mc Guinness, Bagan, Adaramola. Some would not look particularly out of place in our senior squad, Smallbone should already be there on merit imo. |
I believe capping players to keep them is 100% wrong - Not right or fair on young players and also not right for our national team. If lads don't want to play for us then good luck to them - I want players that want to be here. |
If they are sitting in Dublin with a green jersey on them, that’s them up for selection. No questions asked.
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Hotlips_Hoolahan
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 07 Jun 2022 at 1:33pm |
John Nice wrote:
Banjaxed wrote:
horsebox wrote:
He needs to be playing regularly for his club before he gets called up to the senior squad. Even in the u21 games where he excelled at times, he was still anonymous, and goes missing for large periods.
|
We really need to temper expectations when it comes to Will. Especially when it comes to what he will offer us. Personally, I don't think he's the answer to a lot of our shortcomings in the current set up.
For me he's an attacking midfielder. Definitely has a bit more guile and invention than our current midfielders, but as mentioned above... he goes missing. Join the long list of Irish midfielders unfortunately...
Wes Hoolahan he isn't. Not as a direct comparison, but when it comes to their strengths. Wes NEVER went missing, not because he wasn't lazy, or didn't lack concentration, etc but because the fundamental footballing mission statement in Wes Hoolahan's head was ..."I want to be on the ball ALL the time. Give me the ball. " If he wasn't on the ball, he was trying his best to position himself so that he could get on the ball.
That is the player we are lacking. Not a pointer but someone who will take the ball anywhere on the pitch and keep play moving in a positive manner.
I'd have Will in the squad, but Kenny's aspirations of how he wants us to play requires someone who is fearless. We don't have that player sadly. |
Will Smallbone will play at a higher level than Wes ever did, fitness permitting, but you are right he's not even close to a replica. However he offers something clearly lacking in our squad and that is the ability to both score a goal from midfield and to create from deep. If the Italy game turns out to be a dead rubber i.e. if Italy beat Sweden, then 100% he should be in the squad for our remaining senior games. He can do a job as the advanced midfielder in the front 3, even off the bench if we need a goal. He's a man in form, 3 goals in 2 games, he looks fit, sharp and it's no surprise to me that one of the best young managers in the game i.e. Steve Cooper is looking to take him to Forest in advance of their return to the Prem. I have been banging this drum for a long time (long before the last 2 U21 games), but he is not a player we can afford to lose. Noss is another who we should be doing our best to keep on board. |
Based on what?
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John Nice
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Posted: 07 Jun 2022 at 2:48pm |
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
John Nice wrote:
Banjaxed wrote:
horsebox wrote:
He needs to be playing regularly for his club before he gets called up to the senior squad. Even in the u21 games where he excelled at times, he was still anonymous, and goes missing for large periods.
|
We really need to temper expectations when it comes to Will. Especially when it comes to what he will offer us. Personally, I don't think he's the answer to a lot of our shortcomings in the current set up.
For me he's an attacking midfielder. Definitely has a bit more guile and invention than our current midfielders, but as mentioned above... he goes missing. Join the long list of Irish midfielders unfortunately...
Wes Hoolahan he isn't. Not as a direct comparison, but when it comes to their strengths. Wes NEVER went missing, not because he wasn't lazy, or didn't lack concentration, etc but because the fundamental footballing mission statement in Wes Hoolahan's head was ..."I want to be on the ball ALL the time. Give me the ball. " If he wasn't on the ball, he was trying his best to position himself so that he could get on the ball.
That is the player we are lacking. Not a pointer but someone who will take the ball anywhere on the pitch and keep play moving in a positive manner.
I'd have Will in the squad, but Kenny's aspirations of how he wants us to play requires someone who is fearless. We don't have that player sadly. |
Will Smallbone will play at a higher level than Wes ever did, fitness permitting, but you are right he's not even close to a replica. However he offers something clearly lacking in our squad and that is the ability to both score a goal from midfield and to create from deep. If the Italy game turns out to be a dead rubber i.e. if Italy beat Sweden, then 100% he should be in the squad for our remaining senior games. He can do a job as the advanced midfielder in the front 3, even off the bench if we need a goal. He's a man in form, 3 goals in 2 games, he looks fit, sharp and it's no surprise to me that one of the best young managers in the game i.e. Steve Cooper is looking to take him to Forest in advance of their return to the Prem. I have been banging this drum for a long time (long before the last 2 U21 games), but he is not a player we can afford to lose. Noss is another who we should be doing our best to keep on board. |
Based on what? |
Based on my opinion of his ability. I will caveat that by saying he has had an ACL injury at a young age which could seriously hamper his development, but he is starting to again look like the player he promised to be before the injury, so I'm hopeful on that. If he stays fit, he is by far our best midfield prospect. It's an opinion and I'm not knocking Wes who has had a great career, but I believe Will has the attributes and attitude to be a regular at a top half PL club. Btw I was saying this long before his MotM performances in the last two U-21 games.
He is in form and he is a better option now for the senior squad than the likes of Molumby, Browne or Hourihane imo. As I said previously, if the Italy game is going to be a dead rubber, then he should be called in to the senior squad. I'd have more hope at 1 nil down to Scotland or the Ukraine if I saw him coming on in midfield rather than any of those 3 lads.
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Hotlips_Hoolahan
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Posted: 07 Jun 2022 at 3:03pm |
He's played 700 minutes of PL football spread out over three years, been an unused sub countless times, and was poor enough when he has featured for Southampton this season (injuries accepted). Even for the U-21's he has flitted in and out. He has a LONG way to go to have half the career Wes has had, whether there's any truth to the Forest rumours or not.
I knew the hype train would go into overdrive based on 3 goals in 2 games but Tyreik Wright has as many goal contributions in recent games and has struggled at League 2 level.
It's a big step up from U21 to men's football. We could've scored 7 or 8 against that Montenegro team, they were that bad. You can't really adequately judge how someone would fare against Ukraine or Scotland seniors based on that kind of situation.
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Weecounty
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Posted: 07 Jun 2022 at 3:05pm |
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Without doubt Smallbone deserves to be called up but the chance of playing in the Under 21 Euros is a once off. Hopefully we qualify and give the lads some tournament experience. What I like about him is his attack mindset, he is one of our best attacking outlets but he may not have that role with the Senior team as he can also play the defensive midfield role. His work rate could land him in that role.
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