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Why are England NOT the best

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    Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 10:52am
"Smalling and Jones.... have the potential to be the PL’s best ever pairing in my opinion." - SlurAlex
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 11:04am
Mentality
Technique
Media
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lassassinblanc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 11:13am
number of players playing for top clubs, compare say the Squad for Euros from Germany and England

6 of the English Squad played for Title winning teams

14 played for Title winning teams in German. (OK over half of them were with Bayern Munich)

1 of the English squad has a Champions League winners medal

9 won a Champions league in German, one has just won his 3rd

Point I'm making they all play at a higher level then England.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/10725849/premier-league-has-highest-percentage-of-foreign-players-8211-uefa-report

Also the above link has a lot to do with it too, in a way Brexit is probably the best thing to happen to English Football since 1966 as teams may be forced to play young English Players.

The English go on about their victorious u20 Team winning the World Cup, how many of those will go on to gain full caps?




 


Edited by lassassinblanc - 03 Jul 2017 at 12:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lassassinblanc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 11:19am
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Mentality
Technique
Media
 
 


Massive one. They always go into tournaments under so much pressure due to the media making them out to be World beaters.

Even when they don't start out as it they usually end up being talked about as a favorite once they win a game.

Also the way the media conspired to oust a manager who while doesn't play pretty football could well of done wonders with them because he is a good motivator and sets teams up well but nope they got him fired.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 12:00pm
Originally posted by lassassinblanc lassassinblanc wrote:

The English go on about their victorious u20 Team winning the World Cup, how many of those will go on to gain full caps?
This.
 
But may change. In the past clubs refused to let established young players play at underage tournaments whereas other countries see it as vital for their development and their 'tournament experience'.
 
PS - Liverpool won the Double in 1986 and they didn't have a single player in the England squad at Mexico'86.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claret Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by lassassinblanc lassassinblanc wrote:

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Mentality
Technique
Media
 
 


Massive one. They always go into tournaments under so much pressure due to the media making them out to be World beaters.

Even when they don't start out as it they usually end up being talked about as a favorite once they win a game.

Also the way the media conspired to oust a manager who while doesn't play pretty football could well of done wonders with them because he is a good motivator and sets teams up well but nope they got him fired.
Yep Media for me also LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TonyNotJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Mentality
Technique
Media
 
 

Still can't see this word without hearing it in Trap's accent.Will this ever stop? Smile


They often make terrible choices of manager :

Southgate (incredibly uninspired, son of Hodgson)
Allardyce (have a feeling he would have done really well, now we'll never know)
Hodgson (yawn)
Capello (didn't seem to give much of a flying fcuk bar collecting his over-inflated salary
Mcclaren (Complete clown)
Ericksson (competent but no more,lots of time chasing skirt for a man who looks like a bank manager)
Keegan (so bad he sacked himself)
Hoddle (Not bad but too weird)
Venables (Very good then sacked for possible off field shenanigans)
Taylor (completely out of his dept, got the job much too early) 
Robson (good but took him a long time and luck to get it right, not many would have got so much time)


That's their last 11 managers going back to 1982. An awful lot of bad choices among them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 12:47pm
Because they are technically inferior and mentally way off the pace.

Plus you have eejits spouting this sh*te about how you cant prepare for penalty shootouts when they inevitably go out at that stage. It's the most backward thing I have ever heard of in my life. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 12:53pm
Capello missed his sons wedding to watch England play a friendly match.

     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabra Hoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 1:00pm
They only ever win when there is a Labour PM in situ.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FrankosHereNow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Capello missed his sons wedding to watch England play a friendly match.

What a dope.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabra Hoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 1:03pm
Originally posted by TonyNotJack TonyNotJack wrote:

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Mentality
Technique
Media
 
 

Still can't see this word without hearing it in Trap's accent.Will this ever stop? Smile


They often make terrible choices of manager :

Southgate (incredibly uninspired, son of Hodgson)
Allardyce (have a feeling he would have done really well, now we'll never know)
Hodgson (yawn)
Capello (didn't seem to give much of a flying fcuk bar collecting his over-inflated salary
Mcclaren (Complete clown)
Ericksson (competent but no more,lots of time chasing skirt for a man who looks like a bank manager)
Keegan (so bad he sacked himself)
Hoddle (Not bad but too weird)
Venables (Very good then sacked for possible off field shenanigans)
Taylor (completely out of his dept, got the job much too early) 
Robson (good but took him a long time and luck to get it right, not many would have got so much time)


That's their last 11 managers going back to 1982. An awful lot of bad choices among them.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 1:05pm
There is no single reason why the England NT regularly underperforms on the world stage - if there were, then someone would fix it.

Instead, there are a variety of reasons, with commentators invariably picking on the one or two which correspond most closely to their own preferences and prejudices.

But aside from the technical explanations like Manager, tactics, tough domestic season, overseas players in the EPL, FA incompetence etc, there is one overriding factor which it seems to me to get overlooked.

Namely, not enough people in the game are bothered by this situation - if they were, they'd do something about it!

If you look at the clubs, the EPL clubs simply don't care, indeed are often actively hostile to England eg for taking "their" players away from them. Hence they are reluctant to release players, or re-aarange fixtures etc.

Then there are the players. At best, many players feel they can't win (both senses of term) when playing for England, so "rationalise" it by making excuses, or concentrating on their club. And at worst, many don't give a stuff - they're millionaires who are on a pedestal with their club, so why bother with England? (Why am I suddenly thinking of Rio Ferdinand?)

Look at the managers. For English-born managers, the NT is no longer the pinnacle of their career, so the job doesn't attract the best. And foreign-born managers eventually lose whatever motivation they might have had, with the likes of Erikksen and Capello only staying on for the money.

And the FA? Far too many "blazers" who enjoy their freebies and overseas trips too much to rock the boat, and no accountability for the executives. For example, after London won the 2012 Olympic bid, the Sports Minister of the time went to the FA, who were due to bid for WC2018, and offered to help them out. The FA didn't want to know, insisting they knew better... In any other country, if the FA failed so miserably, the snubbed Government would have had their revenge pretty damned quick, but not England, where there are no votes to be had either way.

Above all, there are the fans. The most patriotic have been ground down by repeated failure. But more importantly, the majority simply don't care enough, otherwise they'd be marching on Westminster with flaming torches and pitchforks every two years!

And why is this? Simply, if you asked the average fan whether they'd like to see their team win the League, or England win the World Cup, 90% would say the former.

And until enough people throughout the game care enough to demand changes, then the necessary changes (which aren't rocket science btw), will not happen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Namely, not enough people in the game are bothered by this situation - if they were, they'd do something about it!
The FA did, in 1990/91, producing the 'Blueprint for Football' wrestling power from the Football League and set up the Premier League in 92.
 
The PRIMARY function of this was to aid/support the National Team.
The plan was to reduce the league to 18 clubs and introduce a winter break.
 
None of this happened and as we know Sky took over.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabra Hoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 1:21pm
Managers picking Neil Webb ahead of Glenn Hoddle and Gordon Cowans ahead of Paul Gascoigne.
Little things like that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 1:23pm
Originally posted by Gary McKay Gary McKay wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Namely, not enough people in the game are bothered by this situation - if they were, they'd do something about it!

The FA did, in 1990/91, producing the 'Blueprint for Football' wrestling power from the Football League and set up the Premier League in 92.
 
The PRIMARY function of this was to aid/support the National Team.
The plan was to reduce the league to 18 clubs and introduce a winter break.
 
None of this happened and as we know Sky took over.
 
 
The FA had a choice - either recognise the new EPL, or face a breakaway by the leading clubs, who would be completely independent outwith the existing structures of the game.

The FA bottled it, the clubs took note, then proceeded to do whatever they liked, with no reference to the FA, or any promises made previously.

Meanwhile, whether you like it or not, the EPL has been a huge "success" (in their own terms, that is), indeed it can be said to be the world leader in its field.

Which leads to another factor I failed to mention in my previous post. If you look at any of the Owners/Chairmen/Chief Execs who have been genuinely successful at an EPL club down the years, how many ever wanted to leave and take up a similar post within the FA? I can't really think of many, even from amongst the English ones!

I mean there have been some who tried, like eg Greg Dyke, Mark Palios and Rick Parry, but how did they do? And where are they now?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 1:24pm
Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:


Managers picking Neil Webb ahead of Glenn Hoddle and Gordon Cowans ahead of Paul Gascoigne.
Little things like that.
True, but more a symptom of failure than the root cause (imo).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 2:52pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Gary McKay Gary McKay wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Namely, not enough people in the game are bothered by this situation - if they were, they'd do something about it!

The FA did, in 1990/91, producing the 'Blueprint for Football' wrestling power from the Football League and set up the Premier League in 92.
 
The PRIMARY function of this was to aid/support the National Team.
The plan was to reduce the league to 18 clubs and introduce a winter break.
 
None of this happened and as we know Sky took over.
The FA had a choice - either recognise the new EPL, or face a breakaway by the leading clubs, who would be completely independent outwith the existing structures of the game.

The FA bottled it, the clubs took note, then proceeded to do whatever they liked, with no reference to the FA, or any promises made previously.
True - Liverpool, Everton, United, Arsenal and Spurs  were the Big 5 clubs that led the charge and the others rowed in behind. Promises were made and soon forgotten regarding the National Team.
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