What would you do with VAR |
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BrendanD88
Roy Keane 99% of my posts are emojis Joined: 29 Mar 2013 Location: Co Down Status: Offline Points: 10019 |
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Is it not actual Premier League referee's who are in the monitor rooms?
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jamie2905
Kevin Kilbane Joined: 06 Oct 2017 Location: Lapland Status: Offline Points: 161 |
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No, the issue is that they are not at the same appalling standard. The VAR in ARSvCRY is an Aussie who has referee'd a grand total of 12 league games. He shouldn't be choosing whether a team like Arsenal get 3 points or 1, especially considering CL football is on the line (Arsenal have missed out on CL football by 1 point in 2 of the last 3 seasons).
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Hans Moleman
Roy Keane Muff: That is a lie and you are a liar Joined: 09 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 10199 |
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Which I've pointed to numerous times before. You have a situation in the PL where the referees have been appalling for a number of years now. So they bring in VAR. Who did people think would be operating the VAR system when it came in?. The buffoons considered a poorer standard than even those appalling PL refs was always the answer. It was never going to end well.
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"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
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Mike up the refs and have the big screens show the replays, as the ref watches them. Then we'll see how the referees are applying the laws and we'll know why they are making their decisions. That's only right. Secondly, on offside, use two frames for the pass: the one immediately before the pass is released and the one after. That way you can say for sure if the player was offside or not; the present system is not working. If the attacker is offside in both frames, it's offside. If he is only offside in one (whether the first or the second, as can happen if the attacker is coming back towards the ball in the buildup) then he is onside. The current system is permitting incorrect decisions because of the inaccuracy of the cameras. Accompany this with slightly more permissive assistant refereeing, where they only flag if they are sure, and it should work. It will only take a couple more seconds per decision to clarify if the player is on or off but, more importantly, it will be right. It can be fixed.
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jamie2905
Kevin Kilbane Joined: 06 Oct 2017 Location: Lapland Status: Offline Points: 161 |
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Agree with the first point but not the second, the technology isn't good enough yet because of the frame rate. They can't use a technology for offside if that technology cannot keep up with the play. The frame rate is 50 fps, nowhere near good enough for the pace of a Sunday league game, never mind the PL. For a point of reference, Hawkeye, in other sports, runs at 340 fps. I don't know what the allternative should be, maybe VAR should be used to just assist the ref for offside, and if it is too close, ie he cannot tell if it is offside, then he gives the benefit to the attacker.
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Bob Hoskins
Moderator Group Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Status: Offline Points: 20175 |
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How many correct decisions has VAR made compared to ones that are wrong? This is the simple reason why it comes in and works and will stay.
Letting the crowd know what the f**k is going on would be a big improvement. It reminds when watching Ireland games and UEFA don't let the big screens show certain replays of incidents in case we riot over an offside or bad foul. Drives me nuts and VAR decisions would be way worse to experience
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Romario 2016: And the ticket mafia gets caught! Well, four years ago I had already told the government.
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SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
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That's my point: if you're onside in both frames, then you're definitely onside; if you're offside in both frames, you're definitely offside. VAR works for that much and the pictures do show when the ball is played. I think we actually agree, based on your last sentence. If you're on in one frame and off in the next (or previous, as the case may be), that's where the issue is. I'd say allow the benefit to the attacker and call it onside. I can't say leave it with the on field decision, because they are currently instructed not to flag unless sure. VAR in that scenario cannot show that the attacker was definitely offside so, unless that is the case, the benefit should go to the attacker. The problem at the minute is the frame selection: use the before and after frame and you don't have the same problem.
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jamie2905
Kevin Kilbane Joined: 06 Oct 2017 Location: Lapland Status: Offline Points: 161 |
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Yep think we're pretty much agreed, ring JD there and he will sort it all out then
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Zinedine Kilbane 110
Jack Charlton Man City records obsession Joined: 20 Mar 2012 Location: Dundalk Status: Offline Points: 9647 |
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Or why not look at one frame and if it’s not clear and obvious then give the benefit to the attacker. My problem is they are looking a very marginal offsides - down to cm’s
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SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
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Because then you are back to square one. You need the first frame where the ball has left the foot (or other body part) of the player playing the ball & the frame before it. You need to select the frame: which one? If you select both, you have better data to make the decision. You don't make good decisions with less information.
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Hans Moleman
Roy Keane Muff: That is a lie and you are a liar Joined: 09 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 10199 |
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How in the name of God have they gotten to a place in the PL where even the offside decisions can be disputed. A league awash with money and the infrastructure and technology in place isn't up to scratch.
This is all bog standard stuff that surely they would know before a ball is kicked under VAR. If they do not have the camera capabilities to judge the exact offside line, then admit it. Stop claiming that at least the offsides are 100 percent spot on when clearly they can't be. They need to go back to the very start and rethink the entire VAR system.
Edited by Hans Moleman - 28 Oct 2019 at 5:24pm |
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"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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ChesterCopperpot
Liam Brady Joined: 28 Feb 2019 Status: Offline Points: 1169 |
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Get rid of it. Proves that it's still not getting the calls right and has taken away from the debates down the pub.
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planning
Ray Houghton Football version of Comical Ali. Joined: 17 Mar 2012 Status: Offline Points: 3836 |
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That in itself has nothing to do with VAR. Amount of experience should make no difference. One of the most experienced referees in England, failed to spot a handball in Newcastle v Watford and rule a goal out. Another ref with 20 years experience, thought the second City goal against Villa was valid. While the head of PGMOL thinks that keepers don't have to stay on their line, and pitchside monitors are not required. You dont need to ref 500 games, to sit in a VAR hub and advise a referee that you need to look at a monitor to make a major decision. The resources are there to help referees, and they should be used.
That cannot happen before the law is changed by IFAB, and we have to wait until June 1 at the earliest for that. In the meantime, broadcasters can put microphones in the ref review area that can pick up what a ref is saying when he watches a screen, as happened in the Copa America. There's nothing to stop that. They just have to look at the monitor, which of course they won't do in England.
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VAR: Cutting the crap out of football.
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Hans Moleman
Roy Keane Muff: That is a lie and you are a liar Joined: 09 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 10199 |
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Tis good to see you know of IFAB these days considering you've been rambling about VAR for so long, it's good that you understand they exist.
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"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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9fingers
Paul McGrath Ballymun Resident #MONKEANO Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 16144 |
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VAR in the Seria A this evening Napoli player is rugby tackled in the box, Napoli players appeal for pen, ref waves play on & Atalanta go up the other end & score. VAR review the lot and let the Atalanta goal stand. Ancelotti and his assistant both sent off, Insigne & someone else booked.
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Hans Moleman
Roy Keane Muff: That is a lie and you are a liar Joined: 09 Aug 2012 Status: Offline Points: 10199 |
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Nope, it works perfectly outside of the PL sure it is an absolute nonsense of a system. In what world is that not a penalty for Llorrente that attempt at a tackle was up there with Guendouzi from last weekend. Where are Dermot Gallagher or Peter Walton when you need them eh "some would give a penalty for that, some would say no penalty. It's all subjective really, isn't it?" The entire system is a complete cod. Edited by Hans Moleman - 31 Oct 2019 at 2:12am |
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"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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That’s hilarious! This is exactly what football deserves!
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jamie2905
Kevin Kilbane Joined: 06 Oct 2017 Location: Lapland Status: Offline Points: 161 |
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You are not provided any solutions, just stating problems. Of course experience matters. The point is that a man who is barely a referee at all MADE the decision. He should be referring the decision to the ref, like we seen in the world cup. The ref should get a word in his ear "You need to check this", then proceeds to check it on the monitor.
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