Keep it but get the ref access to the telly himself like in MLS as well as having someone else looking at it.  Also he should be miked up to the stadium PA so he can explain his decision like NFL.

I think its good and entertaining but its being given a bad reputation by the idiots making the decisions.  Its all human error.

It would be good to hear the conversations/ decision by the TMOs

Only very obvious errors - a big toe offside is fine 

One replay in real time should clear most issues - if you have to watch it 3+ times then it’s not obvious 

Needs to be quicker

But in general the rules of football / VAR need to be made very clear and take away the grey area as much as possible.

Defenders running with their arms behind their backs is unnatural.

To make coleslaw?

Go back to what exactly?

The maximum wage?

Black and White tv?

42 games per season?

Games on Christmas Day?

2 games in 24 hours?

2 games at Easter?

Teams numbered 1-11 only?

11 "home nations" players per team?

1 substitute allowed per game?

1 live game per month on ITV? At 3.30pm on a Sunday?

1 live game per week on Sports Stadium at 3pm on a Saturday? After every other sport has been covered after the show starts at 12 30pm?

The back pass to the keeper allowed?

Getting pised on/frost bite standing on the uncovered, pis-stench, fenced up terraces, drinking Bovril instead of Red Bull? How football  "used to be". 

Back to reality. No is the short answer. The long answer is, asking us to go back to pre-VAR football, is like asking us to go back to any of the above. VAR never promised flawless refereeing, it told us that more of the big decisions would be correct. Approx 30 decisions have been made by VAR so far in the EPL, 30 more correct decisions that we couldn't have in years gone by. Platini is out, Technology is in, its here to stay and it's not going away. 

There're been about 30 wrong ones this weekend alone ffs, no matter what your blathering on about black and white TVs for there 

When you see and hear the two converse about what they are seeing with the incident then I think you are a lot more willing to accept their point of view. Let’s be honest, we are greatly influenced by what we are told. For example, I didn’t think there was much in that Mane incident initially and thought it would be overruled, but then the commentators were so adamant it was a penalty that I just accepted it that i was wrong initially 

Give me all your money.  It's the right thing to do.

I would like all these to come back!!

Games on Xmas day would be great. 

Exactly. It's one thing the rugby have spot on. VAR is also working far better in other leagues. The Premier League have just, made an unholy balls of it. And link the strands up rather than having the absolute farce of the dubious goals commitee overruling after the, fact like with the Silva goal, that added another level of incompetence to it. 

Sorry, I’m still waiting on the wallet inspector to return my cash and cards

First time I agree with him and he is taking the piss!

I'm fine with offside as it is, there has to be a cut off point, any leeway is bollocks

 

Is it not actual Premier League referee's who are in the monitor rooms?

No, the issue is that they are not at the same appalling standard. The VAR in ARSvCRY is an Aussie who has referee'd a grand total of 12 league games. 

He shouldn't be choosing whether a team like Arsenal get 3 points or 1, especially considering CL football is on the line (Arsenal have missed out on CL football by 1 point in 2 of the last 3 seasons).

Which I've pointed to numerous times before. You have a situation in the PL where the referees have been appalling for a number of years now. So they bring in VAR. Who did people think would be operating the VAR system when it came in?. The buffoons considered a poorer standard than even those appalling PL refs was always the answer. It was never going to end well.

Mike up the refs and have the big screens show the replays, as the ref watches them. Then we'll see how the referees are applying the laws and we'll know why they are making their decisions. That's only right.

Secondly, on offside, use two frames for the pass: the one immediately before the pass is released and the one after. That way you can say for sure if the player was offside or not; the present system is not working. If the attacker is offside in both frames, it's offside. If he is only offside in one (whether the first or the second, as can happen if the attacker is coming back towards the ball in the buildup) then he is onside. The current system is permitting incorrect decisions because of the inaccuracy of the cameras. Accompany this with slightly more permissive assistant refereeing, where they only flag if they are sure, and it should work. It will only take a couple more seconds per decision to clarify if the player is on or off but, more importantly, it will be right.

It can be fixed.

Agree with the first point but not the second, the technology isn't good enough yet because of the frame rate.

They can't use a technology for offside if that technology cannot keep up with the play. The frame rate is 50 fps, nowhere near good enough for the pace of a Sunday league game, never mind the PL. For a point of reference, Hawkeye, in other sports, runs at 340 fps. 

I don't know what the allternative should be, maybe VAR should be used to just assist the ref for offside, and if it is too close, ie he cannot tell if it is offside, then he gives the benefit to the attacker.

Letting the crowd know what the f**k is going on would be a big improvement. It reminds when watching Ireland games and UEFA don't let the big screens show certain replays of incidents in case we riot over an offside or bad foul. Drives me nuts and VAR decisions would be way worse to experience

That's my point: if you're onside in both frames, then you're definitely onside; if you're offside in both frames, you're definitely offside. VAR works for that much and the pictures do show when the ball is played. I think we actually agree, based on your last sentence.

If you're on in one frame and off in the next (or previous, as the case may be), that's where the issue is. I'd say allow the benefit to the attacker and call it onside. I can't say leave it with the on field decision, because they are currently instructed not to flag unless sure. VAR in that scenario cannot show that the attacker was definitely offside so, unless that is the case, the benefit should go to the attacker. The problem at the minute is the frame selection: use the before and after frame and you don't have the same problem.

Or why not look at one frame and if it’s not clear and obvious then give the benefit to the attacker.

My problem is they are looking a very marginal offsides - down to cm’s 

Because then you are back to square one. You need the first frame where the ball has left the foot (or other body part) of the player playing the ball & the frame before it. You need to select the frame: which one? If you select both, you have better data to make the decision.

You don't make good decisions with less information.

This is all bog standard stuff that surely they would know before a ball is kicked under VAR. If they do not have the camera capabilities to judge the exact offside line, then admit it. Stop claiming that at least the offsides are 100 percent spot on when clearly they can't be.

They need to go back to the very start and rethink the entire VAR system.

SuperDave84 wrote: Mike up the refs and have the big screens show the replays, as the ref watches them. Then we'll see how the referees are applying the laws and we'll know why they are making their decisions. That's only right. It can be fixed.

Nope, it works perfectly outside of the PL sure  it is an absolute nonsense of a system. In what world is that not a penalty for Llorrente  that attempt at a tackle was up there with Guendouzi from last weekend.

Where are Dermot Gallagher or Peter Walton when you need them eh "some would give a penalty for that, some would say no penalty. It's all subjective really, isn't it?"

The entire system is a complete cod.

You are not provided any solutions, just stating problems. Of course experience matters.

The point is that a man who is barely a referee at all MADE the decision. He should be referring the decision to the ref, like we seen in the world cup. The ref should get a word in his ear "You need to check this", then proceeds to check it on the monitor.

And like the rest of them, he's been advised not to do that by Riley. 

If he's a fully qualified referee, he is well able to sit in front of a screen and assist the ref on the field. Of course, the on field ref has the ultimate authority to ignore any advice or order he is given.

You don't need experience to say that. You could get a man down the pub to simply order someone to look at a monitor. When a ref goes to a monitor, it's usually a box ticking exercise for him to overturn the original decision. Riley doesn't want that, in case it slows the game down, but at least the ref on the pitch could see everything he needs to see. 

Speaking of Riley, he showed his utter incompetence by highlighting 4 VAR "errors" in his opinion last week. 3 of them I would argue were correct calls. 

The worst one was his claim that the penalty given by VAR at Brighton v Everton was an error. This is the same gobshy who claimed a penalty not given by VAR, for an identical incident at Bournemouth v City was also an error. Last week, he got the hairdryer treatment from all the clubs. His cherry picking of what rules for a VAR to implement and ignore, and his passing the buck onto his colleagues makes him a complete liability and he must resign.

And some people here want the fans to see this too? Can you imagine the anger, when the Napoli fans could see for sure that it should have been a penalty

I agree that refs should be miked up and use a monitor, but not for the action to be replayed on a big screen. Fans would get even more worked up over perceived wrong decisions.

Would love to see the VAR system completely scrapped. Watching the offside calls is painful. They do not have the technology for the tight calls, like the Pulisic and Mertens goals last night. So they are still half guessing. It's comical.

It has ruined inplay gambling for me

Just thinking about the number of goals I've seen ruled out for a player being offside in maybe a phase or two of play before the goal. Seems to be very high.

 

No doubt some PhD wizard is currently working on a mega project that will show Man City would have won the 2019/20 league by double points was it not for VAR.

It was a handball, bit that doesn't mean a penalty should have been awarded 

Only the away fans and neutrals didn't celebrate. The other 50,000 in the  stadium celebrated as soon as the ball went in, and they celebrated again when it was confirmed. I think most people had already finished celebrating by the time the second goal was questioned for offside. The decision to give both goals was correct.  

As for pub celebrations, I find when my team scores, VAR or no VAR, that it's very difficult to celebrate in pubs, and you can't celebrate at all if you only hear of the goal on livescore. In time you get used to it. With or without VAR,  every goal scored is provisional until play resumes. Every fan watching accepts that. The correct decision is all that matters. 

Utter scutter from you.

Utter scutter is not understanding why 1mm offside is offside.  

Utter scutter is claiming "nobody" celebrates a goal, while 50,000 people are wildly celebrating. Twice in 15 minutes. 

Three of many examples of "utter scutter". 

VAR is permanent in the EPL. If you have suggestions to improve it, I'm willing to read them. If you want it scrapped, be prepared to be disappointed. 

Planning, please answer the above you complete and utter spoofer.

Had a laugh at that

You wouldn’t be biased or anything of course 

It's already been answered. There were two handballs, by a forward and a defender. Both are equally liable to be punished. Except the ref can't give both a free kick and a penalty, so he did what he should do, waved play on. He's the best ref in the league, and gets the biggest games, because he knows what he is doing.

So every defender handling a ball is his own area isn't a penalty now you're saying?