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Ray Houghton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OnTheOneRoad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2018 at 8:51pm
Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by OnTheOneRoad OnTheOneRoad wrote:

When you don't score a goal in 180 minutes you can have no complaints. Having said that, no matter if some of their fans had Thank You Henry flags and all the rest of it, you never want to see a team done by a terrible refereeing decision.

Surprised at that flippant response in bold from you. Wink

The first goal changes the dynamic of the game and tie. The Swiss were making chances left right and centre but as they had Ray Charles up front, I fancied N.I. to hold out for the 0-0. I do think the Swiss would've beaten them at home anyway but the first goal in a tight playoff like that was hugely important.  

I will say if there was ever a team's fans that was due that delicious taste of karma, it was that lot. Smile
 





Didn't mean to sound flippant agree, if it were 0-0 in Belfast the Swiss would have got their goal in Basel I think
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2018 at 8:52pm
Originally posted by Strazdas Strazdas wrote:

Originally posted by OnTheOneRoad OnTheOneRoad wrote:

When you don't score a goal in 180 minutes you can have no complaints. Having said that, no matter if some of their fans had Thank You Henry flags and all the rest of it, you never want to see a team done by a terrible refereeing decision.

It was a terrible decision from him, not even a 50-50 one. It was one of those innocuous incidents where a shot is blocked in the penalty area by cannoning off a player's body. Giving a penalty to the away team in a World Cup play off was an absolute killer, especially when it looked like it was heading for a 0-0. You would have thought a ref would need to be pretty damned sure before pointing to the spot in such a game. If on the other hand he waves away a 50-50 penalty appeal for the away team, then so what? It's not the end of the world.....his actual decision was a disaster.

Exactly. 
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We will never know what would have happened.  It was a catastrophic error.  They are entitled to feel hard done by.  

I think had it finished scoreless in Belfast it would have been a very nervous 2nd leg that could have gone to penalties.

As for karma re the Henry flag.  Well I do recall a song which I'm sure those who travelled prior to November 2009 will also remember to the tune of the banana boat song  "Diego, Dieeego  Diego scores and the Brits go home.    Diego, Dieeego  Diego scores and the Brits go home. Not once but twice and with his hand Diego scores and Brits go home."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2018 at 10:42pm
Originally posted by gspain gspain wrote:

We will never know what would have happened.  It was a catastrophic error.  They are entitled to feel hard done by.  

I think had it finished scoreless in Belfast it would have been a very nervous 2nd leg that could have gone to penalties.

As for karma re the Henry flag.  Well I do recall a song which I'm sure those who travelled prior to November 2009 will also remember to the tune of the banana boat song  "Diego, Dieeego  Diego scores and the Brits go home.    Diego, Dieeego  Diego scores and the Brits go home. Not once but twice and with his hand Diego scores and Brits go home."

Dead

Glad I never had the displeasure to hear that monstrosity of a chant at aways LOL

Probably sung by the very gobsh*tes that roared for United,Liverpool, Leeds the very next weekend.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gspain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2018 at 10:46pm
Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by gspain gspain wrote:

We will never know what would have happened.  It was a catastrophic error.  They are entitled to feel hard done by.  

I think had it finished scoreless in Belfast it would have been a very nervous 2nd leg that could have gone to penalties.

As for karma re the Henry flag.  Well I do recall a song which I'm sure those who travelled prior to November 2009 will also remember to the tune of the banana boat song  "Diego, Dieeego  Diego scores and the Brits go home.    Diego, Dieeego  Diego scores and the Brits go home. Not once but twice and with his hand Diego scores and Brits go home."

Dead

Glad I never had the displeasure to hear that monstrosity of a chant at aways LOL

Probably sung by the very gobsh*tes that roared for United,Liverpool, Leeds the very next weekend.






I trust the MUFC in your username stands for Monaghan United FC.  Big smile

England are our main rivals so why not (well I can see why post 2009 Cry).  




Edited by gspain - 11 Jan 2018 at 10:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2018 at 11:03pm
Originally posted by OnTheOneRoad OnTheOneRoad wrote:

 if it were 0-0 in Belfast the Swiss would have got their goal in Basel I think
Obviously no-one can say how it would have turned out had the penalty not been given.

But there's not a team in the world wouldn't prefer to survive the home leg 0-0 rather than 1-0 behind, nor any would spurn a 1-0 away win, if given the choice.

More specifically, as I've referred to earlier, Michael himself has said that his approach to the home game was heavily influenced by an injury scare to Steven Davis in training the day before the game. As by far our best attacking midfielder, the doubt whether he'd last inevitably made Michael more cautious than he might otherwise have been. This was compounded by the fact that another attacking midfielder, Jamie Ward, lacked game time with Forest, and a third, Stuart Dallas, was crocked by a bad tackle in the 7th(?) minute.

Therefore Michael's priority went from winning the game to not conceding. Albeit with a healthy slice of luck, he came within that late penalty of succeeding, and I'm sure he had had a plan in mind for Basle on that basis.

But that goal changed the return in two ways. First, it undoubtedly settled/relaxed the Swiss. And second, Michael had to be a bit more cautious, at least to start with, since if we let one in out there, the Swiss would undoubtedly have shut up shop, and we're not usually good enough to score twice in circumstances like that.

Which explains why we were still a bit cagey in the first half in Basel. But by the second half, we began to take the game to them, and by ther end the Swiss were rattled, even despite having an (away goal) advantage.

OK, the Swiss were a "better" team than us in terms of having better players, at least. And such teams usually win ties like this. But the "better" team doesn't always win, even over two legs, and considering how that penalty was ultimately the only thing separating the two sides, I'm sure we were quite capable of coming out on top had the game in Belfast finished scoreless. 

But heyho, that's all ancient history now, so I feel we just have to suck it up, accept that it happened, and get on with things.


Edited by Territorial - 11 Jan 2018 at 11:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2018 at 11:10pm
Originally posted by gspain gspain wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by gspain gspain wrote:

We will never know what would have happened.  It was a catastrophic error.  They are entitled to feel hard done by.  

I think had it finished scoreless in Belfast it would have been a very nervous 2nd leg that could have gone to penalties.

As for karma re the Henry flag.  Well I do recall a song which I'm sure those who travelled prior to November 2009 will also remember to the tune of the banana boat song  "Diego, Dieeego  Diego scores and the Brits go home.    Diego, Dieeego  Diego scores and the Brits go home. Not once but twice and with his hand Diego scores and Brits go home."

Dead

Glad I never had the displeasure to hear that monstrosity of a chant at aways LOL

Probably sung by the very gobsh*tes that roared for United,Liverpool, Leeds the very next weekend.






I trust the MUFC in your username stands for Monaghan United FC.  Big smile

England are our main rivals so why not (well I can see why post 2009 Cry).  



I was brought up supporting two teams (or face adoption) by the auld fella Wink

As regards the LOI, I went to Galway and St Pats games before but I'd rather concentrate my efforts on a team I actually support. 

England couldn't care less about us and it's not a rivalry when the 'Auld Enemy' sees Germany as an actual rivalry. They're not our rivals imo if it's not a mutual feeling. 
 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Weeblywee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2018 at 11:13pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by OnTheOneRoad OnTheOneRoad wrote:

 if it were 0-0 in Belfast the Swiss would have got their goal in Basel I think
Obviously no-one can say how it would have turned out had the penalty not been given.

But there's not a team in the world wouldn't prefer to survive the home leg 0-0 rather than 1-0 behind, nor any would spurn a 1-0 away win, if given the choice.

More specifically, as I've referred to earlier, Michael himself has said that his approach to the home game was heavily influenced by an injury scare to Steven Davis in training the day before the game. As by far our best attacking midfielder, the doubt whether he'd last inevitably made Michael more cautious than he might otherwise have been. This was compounded by the fact that another attacking midfielder, Jamie Ward, lacked game time with Forest, and a third, Stuart Dallas, was crocked by a bad tackle in the 7th(?) minute.

Therefore Michael's priority went from winning the game to not conceding. Albeit with a healthy slice of luck, he came within that late penalty of succeeding, and I'm sure he had had a plan in mind for Basle on that basis.

But that goal changed the return in two ways. First, it undoubtedly settled/relaxed the Swiss. And second, Michael had to be a bit more cautious, at least to start with, since if we let one in out there, the Swiss would undoubtedly have shut up shop, and we're not usually good enough to score twice in circumstances like that.

Which explains why we were still a bit cagey in the first half in Basel. But by the second half, we began to take the game to them, and by ther end the Swiss were rattled, even despite having an (away goal) advantage.

OK, the Swiss were a "better" team than us in terms of having better players, at least. And such teams usually win ties like this. But the "better" team doesn't always win, even over two legs, and considering how that penalty was ultimately the only thing separating the two sides, I'm sure we were quite capable of coming out on top had the game in Belfast finished scoreless. 

But heyho, that's all ancient history now, so I feel we just have to suck it up, accept that it happened, and get on with things.

    Wise up!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2018 at 11:29pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by OnTheOneRoad OnTheOneRoad wrote:

 if it were 0-0 in Belfast the Swiss would have got their goal in Basel I think
Obviously no-one can say how it would have turned out had the penalty not been given.

But there's not a team in the world wouldn't prefer to survive the home leg 0-0 rather than 1-0 behind, nor any would spurn a 1-0 away win, if given the choice.

More specifically, as I've referred to earlier, Michael himself has said that his approach to the home game was heavily influenced by an injury scare to Steven Davis in training the day before the game. As by far our best attacking midfielder, the doubt whether he'd last inevitably made Michael more cautious than he might otherwise have been. This was compounded by the fact that another attacking midfielder, Jamie Ward, lacked game time with Forest, and a third, Stuart Dallas, was crocked by a bad tackle in the 7th(?) minute.

Therefore Michael's priority went from winning the game to not conceding. Albeit with a healthy slice of luck, he came within that late penalty of succeeding, and I'm sure he had had a plan in mind for Basle on that basis.

But that goal changed the return in two ways. First, it undoubtedly settled/relaxed the Swiss. And second, Michael had to be a bit more cautious, at least to start with, since if we let one in out there, the Swiss would undoubtedly have shut up shop, and we're not usually good enough to score twice in circumstances like that.

Which explains why we were still a bit cagey in the first half in Basel. But by the second half, we began to take the game to them, and by ther end the Swiss were rattled, even despite having an (away goal) advantage.

OK, the Swiss were a "better" team than us in terms of having better players, at least. And such teams usually win ties like this. But the "better" team doesn't always win, even over two legs, and considering how that penalty was ultimately the only thing separating the two sides, I'm sure we were quite capable of coming out on top had the game in Belfast finished scoreless. 

But heyho, that's all ancient history now, so I feel we just have to suck it up, accept that it happened, and get on with things.

Could you provide a link for the first bit in bold? 

As for the second bit in bold, it's either conjecture on your part or a flat out lie LOL.

Given how N.I. play, the priority is to keep it tight defensively at home and not concede especially in a playoff/away goal scenario, rather than go out and win the game at home. A first leg 0-0 at home isn't a bad result.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Floreat Ultonia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2018 at 10:42am
Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Given how N.I. play, the priority is to keep it tight defensively at home and not concede especially in a playoff/away goal scenario, rather than go out and win the game at home. A first leg 0-0 at home isn't a bad result

You can't really equate how we played generally in qualifiers from 2014, with the Swiss game. Without winning all of those 7 games we could have finished 3rd both times and not progressed.

Quote I will say if there was ever a team's fans that was due that delicious taste of karma, it was that lot

Fancy that ;)

If every defeat or failure to qualify for either of our teams is instant karma, you could fund a curry buffet for the entire board...



Edited by Floreat Ultonia - 12 Jan 2018 at 11:15am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reildogg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2018 at 11:03am
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by OnTheOneRoad OnTheOneRoad wrote:

 if it were 0-0 in Belfast the Swiss would have got their goal in Basel I think
Obviously no-one can say how it would have turned out had the penalty not been given.

But there's not a team in the world wouldn't prefer to survive the home leg 0-0 rather than 1-0 behind, nor any would spurn a 1-0 away win, if given the choice.

More specifically, as I've referred to earlier, Michael himself has said that his approach to the home game was heavily influenced by an injury scare to Steven Davis in training the day before the game. As by far our best attacking midfielder, the doubt whether he'd last inevitably made Michael more cautious than he might otherwise have been. This was compounded by the fact that another attacking midfielder, Jamie Ward, lacked game time with Forest, and a third, Stuart Dallas, was crocked by a bad tackle in the 7th(?) minute.

Therefore Michael's priority went from winning the game to not conceding. Albeit with a healthy slice of luck, he came within that late penalty of succeeding, and I'm sure he had had a plan in mind for Basle on that basis.

But that goal changed the return in two ways. First, it undoubtedly settled/relaxed the Swiss. And second, Michael had to be a bit more cautious, at least to start with, since if we let one in out there, the Swiss would undoubtedly have shut up shop, and we're not usually good enough to score twice in circumstances like that.

Which explains why we were still a bit cagey in the first half in Basel. But by the second half, we began to take the game to them, and by ther end the Swiss were rattled, even despite having an (away goal) advantage.

OK, the Swiss were a "better" team than us in terms of having better players, at least. And such teams usually win ties like this. But the "better" team doesn't always win, even over two legs, and considering how that penalty was ultimately the only thing separating the two sides, I'm sure we were quite capable of coming out on top had the game in Belfast finished scoreless. 

But heyho, that's all ancient history now, so I feel we just have to suck it up, accept that it happened, and get on with things.



What 'Late' penalty?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2018 at 4:31pm
Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

 Michael himself has said that his approach to the home game was heavily influenced by an injury scare to Steven Davis in training the day before the game. As by far our best attacking midfielder, the doubt whether he'd last inevitably made Michael more cautious than he might otherwise have been. This was compounded by the fact that another attacking midfielder, Jamie Ward, lacked game time with Forest, and a third, Stuart Dallas, was crocked by a bad tackle in the 7th(?) minute.
Could you provide a link for the first bit in bold? 
There were rumours all over social media on the morning of the match, although nothing official from the camp. Then MO'N confirmed it in a press conference after the game. (I guess he had wanted to hide it from the Swiss)
Anyhow, I can't find an exact quotation after this time, but Kenny Archer refers to it here:
"Skipper Steven Davis is a model of consistency, although O'Neill revealed that he had an injury scare in training ahead of winning his 100th cap last Thursday"

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:


"Therefore Michael's priority went from winning the game to not conceding. "

As for the second bit in bold, it's either conjecture on your part or a flat out lie LOL.

Given how N.I. play, the priority is to keep it tight defensively at home and not concede especially in a playoff/away goal scenario, rather than go out and win the game at home. A first leg 0-0 at home isn't a bad result.  
Here is what he indicated after the draw was made:

Northern Ireland boss Michael O'Neill hopes a raucous Windsor Park crowd can help drive his team to a first-leg win over Switzerland in the World Cup play-off.


And some time after the whole thing was over, Michael gave his considered thoughts on the two games in an interview. I can't find it now, but he confirmed again the Davis injury, this time adding that it had also affected/inhibited our other players, since they look to him as our Captain, talisman and best/most experienced player. (At the time, I thought Davis just had a poor game, but now it seems he was playing within himself, so as not to be ruled out of the return leg.)
Anyhow, he went on to add that the Davis injury (plus Ward and Dallas) caused him to alter his approach to the first leg.

Meanwhile, on your general observation, the point about Michael is that he has no single template for how he approaches games. On the contrary, he specifically tailors his selections and tactics according to who we are playing. So when we play weaker sides, for instance, esp at home, we go out and attack them (eg Azer 4-0 in Belfast). When we play clearly superior sides (eg Germany), we play to our strengths (defence), and hope to keep them out.
And when we play comparable sides (eg Swiss or Czechs), we opt for a middle ground.

Additionally, the context of each game is important. Norway are a poor side (imo), so normally we would have taken them on at home. But by the time they came to Belfast, they HAD to win to have any hope of finishing second, so we knew they'd attack. So Michael just kept it tight in defence and then picked them off on the break.
Or when we later went to Baku, Azer were clearly up for it and actually played quite well. But as we were already in a strong position for second place, so instead of "going for it", we actually fell back in defence as the game went on (to consolidate the point), before sneaking a winner in the 93rd minute.

Anyway, as I say Michael reacts to circumstances before, and even during, each game and he has explained how/why his approach to the Swiss game in Belfast had to be amended due to personnel problems.

P.S. Why would I make up lies about such stuff? I mean, what would it prove to anyone, esp so far after the event? Bizarre notion. Wacko
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jan 2018 at 11:33pm
Michael O'Neill's off to Scotland for the better whisky. That Bushmills wasn't doing the trick.  It's Johnnie Walker from now on.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Weeblywee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2018 at 12:00am
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Michael O'Neill's off to Scotland for the better whisky. That Bushmills wasn't doing the trick.  It's Johnnie Walker from now on.
He's Mick Walker since losing his licence
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sham157 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2018 at 1:03am
David Jeffries is surely a shoe in if Mickey does indeed jump dinghy
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