We’re not Brasil we’re Tuaisceart Éireann |
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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Have you never heard of eg Crimea*, Eastern Ukraine, Transdniestra, Ingushetia or Chechnya (to name just a few disputed "Russian" territories)? The Uighurs? Burmese Rohinghi? Muslim Philippino separatists? Kashmiris? Syrian Kurds, Turkish Kurds, Iraqi Kurds? Tibetans? Basques? Or half the people living in the Balkans? The fact is, there are hundreds of disputed territories around the world, where whole populations - sometimes a majority - find themselves living in a jurisdiction which they do not want or recognise. But if they want to play football for an Association other than in whose territory they were born, then they either have to go and live in that territory, or have a parent/grandparent who was born there. Unlike NI's Nationalists... * - http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/12/04/soccer-uefa-crimea-idUKL3N0TO4OY20141204
Or do you not believe that professional footballers could stoop to such tactics? At least in the past, players could not switch after their 21st birthday, or if they had already been capped in a senior friendly, but those restrictions were lifted at the behest essentially of African Associations, who wanted greater access to their diaspora in Europe. * - We won't mention Jack Grealish
In fact, considering where many of them live, there'd likely be a greater backlash if they were to play for NI!
And be turned down... Edited by Territorial - 17 Jun 2015 at 2:22pm |
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irishmufc
Robbie Keane I love Vulvas Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Location: Dublin Status: Offline Points: 25085 |
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The problem is Territorial our situation is unique. You have a huge percentage of people in Northern Ireland that identify with the Republic and consider themselves from Ireland. Obviously we feel the ROI team represents the entire Island.
I don't think there's any other political situation in other parts of the world that can really compare with ours. I can understand peoples resentment on some level where players could be seen to take advantage of Northern Ireland's underage football facility and knowingly going to declare for the Republic when they turn senior. I don't know the ins and outs of some of the standout cases if a player deliberately did that or that they just felt there would be a backlash declaring for the underage Republic squads while still living in N.I. and staying in school. For me the players are playing for their country and the ROI team are the representative football team of our country. |
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Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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But I have to say it causes NI fans great resentment and has turned very many who would ordinarily be fairly reasonable and easy-going strongly against the FAI/ROI. And our reasoning is this. The whole point about FIFA is that it recognises and protects National Associations, treating each one equally - eg American Samoa has an equal vote with the USA; National Governments are made to butt out of Associations' internal, footballing matters; and a separation is maintained (as far as possible) between football and politics. Which explains why, eg FIFA has 209 Members, whereas the UN has only 186(?). With regard to the Irish situation, the FAI is taking advantage of a legitimate, but highly anomalous, application of FIFA's rulebook, as follows (simplified version). A few years back, Qatar and Cape Verde started dishing out Passports and big salaries to second tier Brazilians (i.e. not quite good enough to get capped by Brazil, but plenty good enough for those countries), so that they could cap them as "Nationals". However, this nationality was liable to be revoked after they retired from playing, or ceased to be picked. A load of other African and Asian countries complained, so FIFA acted to tighten their Rules. Unfortunately, instead of declaring eg that players shall normally represent the Association in which they were born, they drafted it clumsily (imo) to prescribe Nationality (political), rather than Association (footballing) as the essential criterion. (Basically, Nationality that does not also depend on residence, but has been acquired from birth). Now in 99% of cases, a player's Nationality coincides exactly with the player's Association i.e. born in France = French nationality = represent the French Football Federation. So that if you want to represent another Association instead, you have either to have resided within the territory of that Association for a qualifying period, or have a parent/grandparent who was born within the relevant territory. Now tying this in to Nationality rather than jurisdiction/territory might still not have been expected to make any practical difference, since very few, if any, countries automatically confer their nationality from birth upon people who have been born outside of their political jurisdiction. (This is essentially because countries guard their own rights in this matter, and as a minimum expect residency or some sort of service to the state before they will hand out a passport). However, the ROI routinely confers citizenship on people born in NI i.e. outside their jurisdiction. Further, this citizenship does not either grant the benefits (eg voting rights, social security, pension etc), nor demand the obligations (eg taxation, national service etc) which routinely apply to Irish citizens born within the ROI. In that sense, it is more of a gesture/declaration of intent, than an equal gift. And further, it is essentially political in nature, having nothing to do with football. The problem is, however, that by the FAI exploiting FIFA's Rules, plus the Irish State's anomalous citizenship procedures, we now have a situation whereby the IFA is the only one of the entire 209 Member Associations of FIFA where all its players are automatically entitled to play for another Association, without any further qualification such as residence or ancestry. (So much for FIFA treating all its members "equally" - would this have been allowed to continue had the Association been eg Germany, Argentina or Russia?) In fact this situation was expressly noted as "unfair" by the CAS when they ruled on the Kearns case, though as a Court of Appeal (effectively), CAS were not able to determine on the merits of the IFA's case, merely on whether FIFA were applying their own Rules and procedures correctly, which they were. And this unfairness is made more galling, since having the right to do something, and actively prosecuting that right are two different things. That is, it seems that the FAI would have been within their rights to select NI players for half a century before the Qatar/C.Verde/Brazil business brought the issue to the fore. But it seems unarguable that there was a "Gentlemens' Agreement" in place between the two Associations to prevent this happening, which the FAI unilaterally broke, in a change of policy which Brian Kerr, no less, described as "seedy, unfair and predatory" So that is why I personally no longer retain any respect for the ROI (Association/team, not fans), when formerly I would have described myself as a "well-wisher". P.S. These are just my own thoughts on the matter from a purely footballing point of view - I neither want nor need long, tedious and repetitive replies about the Good Friday Agreement/Easter 1916/securocrat collusion/the illegally occupied six county statelet or 800 years of British oppression et cetera et cetera et bloody cetera. Edited by Territorial - 17 Jun 2015 at 12:54pm |
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SByrne24
Jack Charlton Joined: 11 Nov 2014 Location: Southampton. Status: Offline Points: 7811 |
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Rubbish. |
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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Any link to the millions of orange clad black South Africans?
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FrankosHereNow
Roy Keane I like Klopp Joined: 02 Jun 2011 Location: El Sadar Status: Offline Points: 12167 |
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Once again, more sh*te.
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YBIG Quiz Champion 2016, 2017 & 2018.
As You Were Three in a row |
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Irish Duke
Kevin Kilbane Joined: 19 May 2015 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 263 |
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In the 2010 WC Final in South Africa the majority of black south africans supported Holland because of a lot of south africans being of Dutch(Boer) descent even though in their recent history there was apartheid. It was magnificent and a credit to a people who wanted to move on together in peace.
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RogerMilla
Moderator Group #TEAMJAVIER #ENGANCHE Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Location: Delaney Park Status: Offline Points: 34858 |
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f**k off |
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The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
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Irish Duke
Kevin Kilbane Joined: 19 May 2015 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 263 |
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It is a sensible decision. Why can't all supporters get singing Danny Boy? I would prefer that song as it is not political. Irelands Call is muck but it unites our players in singing it.
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FrankosHereNow
Roy Keane I like Klopp Joined: 02 Jun 2011 Location: El Sadar Status: Offline Points: 12167 |
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Wtf has rugby players and our national anthem got to do with anything? I don't give a f**k, I suspect nobody else does either.
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YBIG Quiz Champion 2016, 2017 & 2018.
As You Were Three in a row |
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JD & Coke
Alan Kernaghan Joined: 04 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 138 |
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We could get to the Rugby world cup final and not have our anthem played because of a few prods from the North.
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Irish Duke
Kevin Kilbane Joined: 19 May 2015 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 263 |
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So those Irish rugby players didn't stand for the Soldiers Song.
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FrankosHereNow
Roy Keane I like Klopp Joined: 02 Jun 2011 Location: El Sadar Status: Offline Points: 12167 |
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You talk some amount of utter sh*te.
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YBIG Quiz Champion 2016, 2017 & 2018.
As You Were Three in a row |
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Irish Duke
Kevin Kilbane Joined: 19 May 2015 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 263 |
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Many of our finest rugby players had to stand for the Soldiers Song when the North was at war during the 70s and 80s. Personally I would love to see anthems scrapped for games as it is political and politics should have no part in sport.
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JD & Coke
Alan Kernaghan Joined: 04 Jun 2015 Status: Offline Points: 138 |
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Must be hard for michael o neill to stand before games and have to listen to God Save The ****.
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Irish Duke
Kevin Kilbane Joined: 19 May 2015 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 263 |
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Sadlier is right when he says the the FAI cannot overrule the DDL is a joke. No wonder we can't get young players all over the country encouraged to play soccer. Roy Keane and Stephen Ireland touched on this as well. It is another joke in Irish Football.
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Gary McKay
Roy Keane Yo Adrian Joined: 21 Jul 2007 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 13816 |
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I know but plenty more - Jim Larkin, James Connolly, (Sir) Roger Casement, Erskine Childers etc were British. Edited by Gary McKay - 16 Jun 2015 at 11:04pm |
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"Smalling and Jones.... have the potential to be the PL’s best ever pairing in my opinion." - SlurAlex
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PanteirA
Jack Charlton Joined: 29 Jul 2012 Location: Ciarrai Status: Offline Points: 6744 |
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