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VAR sytem

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Hans Moleman View Drop Down
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    Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 4:02pm
No doubt this will be a massive talking point in the next few years. Might as well have it's own thread.

The Bundesliga and Serie A already use it I think? Has the World Cup for 2018 definitively said they are using it?

I'm massively in favour of this system, but there are still plenty of issues around it that I think could be hugely improved on.

- The length of time taken to come to a definite decision. This needs to be as quick as possible. Whether that involves the VAR himself making the decision (which will probably never happen), a screen in the stadium showing the replay would speed things up hugely (again the football authorities probably don't want this to ever happen as the fans will get too excited lets say LOL).  I'm not a fan at all of the small screen on the side of the pitch, I've seen them do that in a Serie A game a couple of months ago as well. It seems to takes too long to sort it out this way.

- What exactly falls under the remit of the VAR. If there's a foul on the pitch that is a clear red, but the ref on the pitch only issues a yellow or misses it altogether, is the VAR allowed step in? 

- the offside scenario is a massive plus here. It needs to be more of a black and white scenario in the rules around offsides. At least this will help as to see a replay allows better interpretation of interference etc and also obviously the clear offside line itself.

- the challenges scenario. Should managers have a certain amount of challenges in a game? Not too sure about that one myself, if a team is getting shafted by an incompetent ref 10 times in a game should they only be only to challenge him 3 times or something?

Massively in favour of this myself. Really hope it becomes common place at all top levels of the game. Really hope they smooth it out in time as well though and fans barely notice it most of the time. 
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Denis Irwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 4:05pm
Paris 2009 always springs to mind when I hear people advocating against VAR.


Length of time is an issue alright but I think once it's up and running on a regular basis these issues will iron themsleves out
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by Denis Irwin Denis Irwin wrote:

Paris 2009 always springs to mind when I hear people advocating against VAR.


Length of time is an issue alright but I think once it's up and running on a regular basis these issues will iron themsleves out

Why Denis! Why Cry Cry Cry

Imo, there is no real reason to be against VAR. Blatters auld nonsense about everyone wanting to talk about referees and decisions that went against/for your team was exactly that, nonsense. People want to talk about football, not referees. 
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alihau41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 4:20pm
there should be a video ref to assist on it. for a ref to run over to a monitor and review when he's got 000s of fans and potentially players and staff, shouting at him, isn't going to speed up the process nor help him/her make the correct decision.
 
I don't think teams should get more than 1 referral, max 1 per half, and not for it to be carried over to 2nd half if not used. mistakes are made by not only officials, but by players too, so to put such severe pressure on refs to get every decision correct isn't going to work. there is no way to eradicate mistakes completely, and to add multiple stoppages to the game will turn it into NFL.
limiting the amount of referrals a team gets gives it more value and therefore keep the use of the referral to meaningful times.
 
other sports - cricket, rugby, tennis, field hockey. all of these have working solutions to VAR which could be adapted in some sort of way. I think the two most likely to help is rugby and field hockey. both of these sports use an additional video ref. unfortunately, in rugby, it is used excessively (refs can't make big decisions by themselves anymore). field hockey, it seems to be used infrequently and only at major tournaments, but each team either gets 1 referral per match/half. if decision is upheld, referral is lost, but referral is kept if decision was wrong
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 4:22pm
Originally posted by alihau41 alihau41 wrote:

there should be a video ref to assist on it. for a ref to run over to a monitor and review when he's got 000s of fans and potentially players and staff, shouting at him, isn't going to speed up the process nor help him/her make the correct decision.
 

 

Breaking news, this is already in place. 

For example on Saturday - Craig Pawson was the on-field referee, Andre Marriner was the VAR ref. And the pair of em still f**ked it up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 4:25pm
There are replays within seconds on every incident. I think the game should just run as normal and a VAR sitting up in the stands then speaks to the ref via his earpiece to tell him if he's made any glaring errors.
 
It should be restricted to penalty decisions, and disallowed goals, with maybe the potential to extend it to bad tackles that aren't properly punished. If the situation is black or white, it should be resolved within seconds. The only delay should be on decisions falling into the grey area. In this case there is a stoppage in play, the ref goes to the sideline to review and communicate with the VAR and then their decision is relayed on the big screen.
 
Players and goalkeepers will have to be instructed to play until the ball goes dead even when the offside flag goes up though.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 4:28pm
I think they have overcomplicated it.  There is a fourth official watching the game with a monitor, have him wired to the ref and when there has been a monumental mistake, a la Henry, tell him he has f**ked up. Simple.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 4:30pm
Did they f*ck up at the weekend? I would have said that they got all the decisions almost right did they not? The big issue for me was the delays were comical, especially on the penalty decision.

On Alihaus points about referrals etc. and other sports use. I think there's a lot in rugbys way of using it now that is good. There is regular chat back and forth between VAR and on field which helps imo. The long wait for definitive decisions in rugby around tries etc, is embarrassing though and half the time seems to be done almost for the fans, so the excitement builds for the fans on the big screen in stadiums.

One of the big ones for me is, will linesmen now be told to err on the side of caution and not put the flag up unless 100 percent certain a player is offside. This should be the case as obviously once the whistle goes when the flag goes up, there's no way of getting that chance back. That seems small, but they are huge interpretations of the system in the grand scheme of things.
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 4:32pm
Course they did. It took 4 minutes for 2 people to say either yes or no on 1 decision. For a technology which is introduced that downtime is minimal that's a colossal f**kup. It don't matter whether the decision was right or wrong, a camera in the sky can spot that. I thought everyone established this after the match but there's always one.

Edited by coyne - 30 Jan 2018 at 4:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I think they have overcomplicated it.  There is a fourth official watching the game with a monitor, have him wired to the ref and when there has been a monumental mistake, a la Henry, tell him he has f**ked up. Simple.

I think if you are going to go to the trouble of doing that, you might as well include plenty of other decisions. Issues around red cards, offsides, penalties etc. It's just a case of not stopping for 3-4 minutes every time that the decision has to be made.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Course they did. It took 4 minutes for 2 people to say either yes or no on 1 decision. For a technology which is introduced that downtime is minimal that's a colossal f**kup. It don't matter whether the decision was right or wrong, a camera in the sky can spot that. I thought everyone established this after the match but there's always one.

That aimed at me LOL Did I not say exactly what you said in your post? As in they got the decisions right, but the delays were comical. This forum is mental LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 4:41pm
Well yeah there shouldn't even be a debate about Saturday, it was so badly handled they stopped the game for a VAR decision which saw 6 WBA players offside + a foul on the keeper from the attacker. 
You don't need VAR for that, Stevie Wonder would of been able to make them decisions for himself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 4:45pm
Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I think they have overcomplicated it.  There is a fourth official watching the game with a monitor, have him wired to the ref and when there has been a monumental mistake, a la Henry, tell him he has f**ked up. Simple.

I think if you are going to go to the trouble of doing that, you might as well include plenty of other decisions. Issues around red cards, offsides, penalties etc. It's just a case of not stopping for 3-4 minutes every time that the decision has to be made.
But the problem with so many of these decisions  is interpretation. For example, I don't think that the penalty decision was correct in the Liverpool game and it seems opinions are divided, even just on here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 4:54pm
Some come down to interpretation, no doubt about that. For me that was a definite penalty. I know others disagree. I think anything that can help the on pitch ref make the correct decisions as often as possible is to be welcomed. The key is not to make a sh*t show of the whole game as a result of VAR with delays.

While I agree with there being interpretation involved in refereeing, most stuff is black and white imo. If VAR was involved in City Cardiff and dangerous play was within it's remit, there are hardly any refs who don't give a red for the foul on Sane. It's a blatant red and if things like that can be punished more you'll see less of them in the game. I don't think just because interpretation of the rules is involved in making such decisions, that a VAR system won't help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Some come down to interpretation, no doubt about that. For me that was a definite penalty. I know others disagree. I think anything that can help the on pitch ref make the correct decisions as often as possible is to be welcomed. The key is not to make a sh*t show of the whole game as a result of VAR with delays.

While I agree with there being interpretation involved in refereeing, most stuff is black and white imo. If VAR was involved in City Cardiff and dangerous play was within it's remit, there are hardly any refs who don't give a red for the foul on Sane. It's a blatant red and if things like that can be punished more you'll see less of them in the game. I don't think just because interpretation of the rules is involved in making such decisions, that a VAR system won't help.
But I think that would come under the remit of what I previously mentioned. A fourth official with a monitor spots a blatant red-card, the referee doesn't. A simple word in his ear solves everything. In this instance there wouldn't even be a stoppage of play, just a simple change in card colour and the matter is resolved.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alihau41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 5:05pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Originally posted by alihau41 alihau41 wrote:

there should be a video ref to assist on it. for a ref to run over to a monitor and review when he's got 000s of fans and potentially players and staff, shouting at him, isn't going to speed up the process nor help him/her make the correct decision.
 

 

Breaking news, this is already in place. 

For example on Saturday - Craig Pawson was the on-field referee, Andre Marriner was the VAR ref. And the pair of em still f**ked it up.
 
unfortunately, I was in the French alps making use of the snow conditions on Saturday, and not watching the west brom cup! but if that's the case, then it comes down to interpretation. two lads might have different opinions at the time and so can lead to delays. however, if the onus is on the video ref only, it should be quicker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alihau41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 5:08pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

But I think that would come under the remit of what I previously mentioned. A fourth official with a monitor spots a blatant red-card, the referee doesn't. A simple word in his ear solves everything. In this instance there wouldn't even be a stoppage of play, just a simple change in card colour and the matter is resolved.
 
no way would that work!! would cause far more issues such as video ref having a bet on a red card to happen etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 5:08pm
The fourth official is the biggest sham in football. They are pointless. I agree, that would be the right scenario to have, but I don't think they will ever have a video ref down on the touchline basically. They would end up taking dogs abuse non stop if they are within touching distance of the managers. Hence why they have the VAR in a truck somewhere in Siberia or somewhere  LOL
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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