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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colemanY2K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2021 at 11:19pm
Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

No doubt that Labour are not in a good place but people predicting generations of Tory rule are wide of the mark. As was mentioned above, the issue of Brexit won the last election for the Tories. That won't exist at the next election. By then, you'd expect the impact of Brexit would be being felt by these working class areas that turned away from Labour and they'll realise they are worse off. Additionally, if Scotland leave the Union on the Tory's watch, you can be sure that people will blame them. 
Things can change very quickly in politics. 

the tories have such a stranglehold on england that no matter how bad the tories screw up labour will not be able to amass enough seats to reach 326 in the next decade or two. the maths just don't add up. they would need to take back scotland which they won't, they need to win big in wales which they might and they need to take the red wall back which is gone forever. they may win a few seats back but it will likely be a patchwork.

the tories are laughing. even if they have a disastrous election they know the electoral map is working against labour.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corkery Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2021 at 2:23am
People/newspapers have associated Labour with political correctness, anti Brexit and immigration. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FrankosHereNow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2021 at 10:47am
Originally posted by corkery corkery wrote:

People/newspapers have associated Labour with political correctness, anti Brexit and immigration. 
That’s why it’s baffling that they’re performing so badly. Maybe English people are just ****s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2021 at 12:00pm
I don't think it's baffling.

I mean like they fielded a remain candidate in the constituency of the HQ of the Brexit Party (Hartlepool)

It's more common sense LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saint Tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2021 at 12:27pm
It shows up the complete fallacy that was their non policy on the defining issue of the era in in British politics (brexit).

This is the single biggest issue labour have with voters. They have no credibility because of this. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2021 at 2:41pm
Alex Salmond conceding defeat that his party are getting nothing.

I guess they’ll be the Scottish equivalent to the Brexit Party from now where they’ll be a nuisance to the SNP and eventually start getting votes if they fail to get the job done 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Newryrep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2021 at 8:20pm
Originally posted by Saint Tom Saint Tom wrote:

It shows up the complete fallacy that was their non policy on the defining issue of the era in in British politics (brexit).

This is the single biggest issue labour have with voters. They have no credibility because of this. 

Said as much at the time - unforgivable 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colemanY2K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2021 at 10:22pm
cracking result for the nationalists and greens Clap 

the outcome ensures they'll continue to be a pain in the hole for boris. all set up for a referendum in 2023/4. 


Edited by colemanY2K - 08 May 2021 at 10:22pm
"One of the dominant facts in English life during the past three quarters of a century has been the decay of ability in the ruling class." Orwell, 1942.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2021 at 10:35pm
Andy Burnham's come and get me plea to the Labour party is very interesting.

Popular in the media, dubbed King of the North, popular within the Labour membership also, just won re-election as Mayor with 69% of the vote.

Labour would have to change their rules as it's mandatory for a leadership role to be an MP, which he obviously no longer isn't, but he could pretty much grab any seat he wants in the North of England


Edited by coyne - 08 May 2021 at 10:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TigerRoll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2021 at 7:47am
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Andy Burnham's come and get me plea to the Labour party is very interesting.

Popular in the media, dubbed King of the North, popular within the Labour membership also, just won re-election as Mayor with 69% of the vote.

Labour would have to change their rules as it's mandatory for a leadership role to be an MP, which he obviously no longer isn't, but he could pretty much grab any seat he wants in the North of England

Unfortunately for Andy, it’ll make no odds who Labour install. 

The Tories will tell England for the years ahead, Vote Labour get Nicola Sturgeon. Nicola sturgeon is arguably the most hated person in England. On that point the SNP will lose a referendum if called in the immediate future. Not everyone who votes the SNP wants an independent Scotland. When it boils down too benefits and the NHS and a few other items being cut people change their minds quickly.  Their main argument is they could rejoin the EU, a few EU states have publicly said they would block Scotland rejoining the EU. Never mind the unanswered Border questions, similar to NI but it would arguably be even more difficult due to a land border. Along with their idea of keeping the British Pound while rejecting the idea of being British. Pie in the sky stuff. 


Edited by TigerRoll - 10 May 2021 at 7:54am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tetsujin1979 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2021 at 8:13am
What countries have said they would block Scottish membership?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TigerRoll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2021 at 8:29am
Originally posted by tetsujin1979 tetsujin1979 wrote:

What countries have said they would block Scottish membership?

Spain being one. Due to their issues with Catalonia. Then the next issue is if Scotland would meet the financial requirements to join the EU. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_walls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2021 at 8:42am
Originally posted by TigerRoll TigerRoll wrote:

Originally posted by tetsujin1979 tetsujin1979 wrote:

What countries have said they would block Scottish membership?

Spain being one. Due to their issues with Catalonia. Then the next issue is if Scotland would meet the financial requirements to join the EU. 

The Spanish have said they have no issues with potential Scottish membership as long as they achieve independence through the Westminster legal structure and it is not a UDI. Anyone else other than the Spanish? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colemanY2K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2021 at 10:12am
Originally posted by TigerRoll TigerRoll wrote:

Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Andy Burnham's come and get me plea to the Labour party is very interesting.

Popular in the media, dubbed King of the North, popular within the Labour membership also, just won re-election as Mayor with 69% of the vote.

Labour would have to change their rules as it's mandatory for a leadership role to be an MP, which he obviously no longer isn't, but he could pretty much grab any seat he wants in the North of England

Unfortunately for Andy, it’ll make no odds who Labour install. 

The Tories will tell England for the years ahead, Vote Labour get Nicola Sturgeon. Nicola sturgeon is arguably the most hated person in England. On that point the SNP will lose a referendum if called in the immediate future. Not everyone who votes the SNP wants an independent Scotland. When it boils down too benefits and the NHS and a few other items being cut people change their minds quickly.  Their main argument is they could rejoin the EU, a few EU states have publicly said they would block Scotland rejoining the EU. Never mind the unanswered Border questions, similar to NI but it would arguably be even more difficult due to a land border. Along with their idea of keeping the British Pound while rejecting the idea of being British. Pie in the sky stuff. 
I pulled you up last week for posting falsehoods and I'll do so again...

Nicola Sturgeon is not the most hated person in England. According to Yougov "Nicola Sturgeon is the most popular other UK public figure and the most famous". 


...and she is more popular in England than Boris! 


There's no way of knowing which way the referendum would go if it was called in the immediate future. The previous ref was called in early 2012. Support was at circa 31%, it ended up at 45%. People didn't change their minds from pro independence to against, in fact it was quite the opposite. Support for independence grew by 14 percentage points. Detailed analysis undertaken following the ref showed that a large % who voted no did so because the Yes side failed to put forward creditable solutions, they failed to win the economic argument. It takes no stretch if the imagination to say mistakes will be learned from last time around. Polling for independence is currently hovering around 50% which is a damn sight better than 31% where it was when the ref was called in 2012. 

Britain is the island btw. They'll still be British even if they become independent. 

 

...and as for Spain well Walls has already put you right on that one. 


Edited by colemanY2K - 10 May 2021 at 10:21am
"One of the dominant facts in English life during the past three quarters of a century has been the decay of ability in the ruling class." Orwell, 1942.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Newryrep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2021 at 12:23pm
Originally posted by TigerRoll TigerRoll wrote:

Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Andy Burnham's come and get me plea to the Labour party is very interesting.

Popular in the media, dubbed King of the North, popular within the Labour membership also, just won re-election as Mayor with 69% of the vote.

Labour would have to change their rules as it's mandatory for a leadership role to be an MP, which he obviously no longer isn't, but he could pretty much grab any seat he wants in the North of England

Unfortunately for Andy, it’ll make no odds who Labour install. 

The Tories will tell England for the years ahead, Vote Labour get Nicola Sturgeon. Nicola sturgeon is arguably the most hated person in England. On that point the SNP will lose a referendum if called in the immediate future. Not everyone who votes the SNP wants an independent Scotland. When it boils down too benefits and the NHS and a few other items being cut people change their minds quickly.  Their main argument is they could rejoin the EU, a few EU states have publicly said they would block Scotland rejoining the EU. Never mind the unanswered Border questions, similar to NI but it would arguably be even more difficult due to a land border. Along with their idea of keeping the British Pound while rejecting the idea of being British. Pie in the sky stuff. 
 
yeah not every conservative voter is an irish republican...……..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sham157 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2021 at 2:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Cockade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 2021 at 6:47pm
Labour still runs Wales. The SNP runs Scotland, with significant backing from the Greens. Sinn Fein is on course to become the most popular party in NI as it is in the rest of Ireland. The Tories have England but we'll see what happens when the full corrosive impact of Brexit kicks in. Interesting days ahead. The UK as we know it is on borrowed time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_walls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2021 at 8:46am
Originally posted by the_walls the_walls wrote:

Originally posted by TigerRoll TigerRoll wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

No doubt that Labour are not in a good place but people predicting generations of Tory rule are wide of the mark. As was mentioned above, the issue of Brexit won the last election for the Tories. That won't exist at the next election. By then, you'd expect the impact of Brexit would be being felt by these working class areas that turned away from Labour and they'll realise they are worse off. Additionally, if Scotland leave the Union on the Tory's watch, you can be sure that people will blame them. 
Things can change very quickly in politics. 

What happens if Brexit works? 
As someone who voted remain, I’m delighted we’re out of the EU in hindsight. Look at the vaccine roll out in the U.K, that wouldn’t of been possible in the EU. And that theme will undoubtedly continue now, better trade deals around the world now also. 

What's this "we're" business? Are you British now?

Why did you vote remain? With hindsight you feel Britain will be able to negotiate better trade deals out of the EU. Did you not think this before the referendum and if not, why not?

You've been shown to be incorrect on the vaccine issue but lets say for argument sake that you are correct. It is one single, unprecedented, issue, the likes of which none of us will likely see again in our lifetime. Everyone, everywhere, will look back on this and point to how they should have done much better, no more so than the UK and it's horrendous death rate. But going forward, once the pandemic is behind us, how is being out of the EU of benefit to the UK? You mention they will get better trade deals around the world. That is just the usual British delusional arrogance and conceit that so many Brexiteers have swallowed. On what basis will they get better trade deals? Nearly all the trade deals they have done so far have been essentially a copy and paste job of the deal that had with countries while in the EU. In the deal with Japan, not all the agricultural goods that had reduced tariffs applied in the EU-Japan deal are included. Of those that are included, they will only qualify if the EU doesn't use up all of it's quota for those goods. They literally get the crumbs from the EU's table! What a brilliant deal for Liz Truss and global Britain LOL. Then you look at the debacle with fishing talks with Norway where they walked away from talks after the Norwegians didn't budge, the Norwegians insisting that they be no worse than they were before Brexit. This has ruined British fishermen, even more than they have already been ruined by essentially having no European market to sell their catch in thanks to Brexit. So much winning LOL.

Then you look at the UK's trading relationship with the EU. The EU is by far the UK's biggest trading partner, by a long way. Countries tend to do most of their trading with their neighbours. British businesses now have huge extra costs and massively reduced competitiveness as a result of trade barriers that the Brits have chosen to inflict on themselves. Lots of them who were dependant on the EU market will go out of business. What trade deals around the world are going to make up for this and what leverage do the UK have to ensure they get these brilliant deals? Make the other guys sit in an uncomfortable chair? Then you look at British imports from the EU. At the moment the Brits are waving everything through with no checks. This can't last and eventually that will affect British consumers and supply chains. 

I haven't even mentioned the small problem of the north!

So I ask you, how do you come to the conclusion that overall, the UK have done the right thing by leaving the EU?

Another Brexit win for global Britain, this time on UK hauliers facing a shortage of drivers.

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1391678146584498177
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