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Robbie Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2021 at 10:58pm
How do you know I haven't? Getting angry and accusatory with no basis is just idiotic. You have gone off on a tangent because I picked up on a word you used that I felt was unnecessary and its own way disrespectful, certainly by the standards you are setting. It has nothing to do with Sarah Everard's murder or the reaction of the police at the vigil of her death. It was trying to sneak in another debate, and a terribly important one, unnecessarily and then a refusal to accept that debate when challenged.

You obviously don't want to answer the question of why you feel it is anti-feminist and would rather tell me you have trans friends, which is a real show of posturing that is worryingly irrelevant. I expect another angry response accusing me of being disrespectful to someone, somewhere, so I will leave you shout at pigeons.
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NewtNewbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2021 at 11:50pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

How do you know I haven't? Getting angry and accusatory with no basis is just idiotic. You have gone off on a tangent because I picked up on a word you used that I felt was unnecessary and its own way disrespectful, certainly by the standards you are setting. It has nothing to do with Sarah Everard's murder or the reaction of the police at the vigil of her death. It was trying to sneak in another debate, and a terribly important one, unnecessarily and then a refusal to accept that debate when challenged.

You obviously don't want to answer the question of why you feel it is anti-feminist and would rather tell me you have trans friends, which is a real show of posturing that is worryingly irrelevant. I expect another angry response accusing me of being disrespectful to someone, somewhere, so I will leave you shout at pigeons.

'Going off on a tangent'? You, and your ostensibly male-oriented allies, were the ones who desperately, and tellingly, tried to drag the conversation away from the extremely important issue of male-on-female violence involving a member of the police force kidnapping and the murdering of a young woman, and the state-sponsored violence against women, to the self-serving subject of the rights of you, as a male, to enter hitherto previously only female-only spaces. 

And of course this means males, whatever their previous crimes and their current motivations, to be able to enter heretofore female-only spaces. Including women's prisons and women's refuges. 

In a large sense this has nothing to do with female-identifying male born trans people who suffer from body dysmorphia. 

Men will always hold certain physical advantages over women, and are never truly the victims within this paradigm. Certain biological realities always hold true. Women and girls will always be at physical disadvantage in relation to males, however those males choose to identify, and the dangers remain existential and real. And no sophistry on the part of you and your fellow liberals can ever realistically convince otherwise.

It seems to me that youu will never fully understand this and have chosen never to even try and understand the issue.


Edited by NewtNewbie - 30 Mar 2021 at 11:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NewtNewbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 12:04am
I feel foolish for even falling into the trap of even allowing ye to shift the prevailing issue away from the point at hand.

Again: women have the right to walk home alone unharmed and alive; and to demur and turn to distractive male narratives like the 'trans issue' and nosensically bringing up 'the bible' -  especially when a young woman is murdered in cold blood in only attempting to walk home alone, isn't something I will or shall ever feel the need to apologise for.


Edited by NewtNewbie - 31 Mar 2021 at 8:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 12:10am
Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

How do you know I haven't? Getting angry and accusatory with no basis is just idiotic. You have gone off on a tangent because I picked up on a word you used that I felt was unnecessary and its own way disrespectful, certainly by the standards you are setting. It has nothing to do with Sarah Everard's murder or the reaction of the police at the vigil of her death. It was trying to sneak in another debate, and a terribly important one, unnecessarily and then a refusal to accept that debate when challenged.

You obviously don't want to answer the question of why you feel it is anti-feminist and would rather tell me you have trans friends, which is a real show of posturing that is worryingly irrelevant. I expect another angry response accusing me of being disrespectful to someone, somewhere, so I will leave you shout at pigeons.

'Going off on a tangent'? You, and your ostensibly male-oriented allies, were the ones who desperately, and tellingly, tried to drag the conversation away from the extremely important issue of male-on-female violence involving a member of the police force kidnapping and murdering a young woman, and the state-sponsored violence against women, to the self-serving subject of the rights of you, as a male, to enter hitherto previously only female-only spaces. 

And of course this means males, whatever their previous crimes and their current motivations, to be able to enter heretofore female-only spaces. Including women's prisons and women's refuges. 

In a large sense this has nothing to do with men trans people who suffer from body dysmorphia. 

Men will always hold certain physical advantages, and are never truly the victims. Certain biological realities always hold true. Women and girls will always be at physical disadvantage in relation to males, however those males choose to identify, and the dangers remain existential and real. And no sophistry on the part of you and your fellow liberals can ever realistically convince otherwise.

You will never fully understand this and have chosen never to even try and understand the issue.


Thanks for teaching me so much about myself. LOL I asked you why you needed to involve that word and why, you got angry, accusatory and have gone off on half-baked nonsense with no basis in anything, before coming up with the above. I used to think I was angry!
Of course I don't fully understand it, that's why I asked the question and have yet to receive a proper answer. 
All this nonsense about 'women's spaces' and men trying to get into them has been largely disproven by anyone with any sophistry on the matter.

My own opinion was built on trying to understand what both sides are saying because I won't ever fully understand it, but the 'TERF' argument holds little water except for the Helen Lovejoy/Kirstie Allsopp/WI brigade on Mums etc.
I usually don't discuss it because I want to hear a proper argument against trans rights but I have yet to hear one. Maybe your trans friends will have heard some.

P.S.: not everyone with empathy for trans rights is a liberal. I think you just think everyone is a liberal because you are the only true left-winger in the world. I thought the interjection from Newry was harsh, but it seems to have been his best and most accurate one-liner yet. 
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NewtNewbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 1:24am
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

How do you know I haven't? Getting angry and accusatory with no basis is just idiotic. You have gone off on a tangent because I picked up on a word you used that I felt was unnecessary and its own way disrespectful, certainly by the standards you are setting. It has nothing to do with Sarah Everard's murder or the reaction of the police at the vigil of her death. It was trying to sneak in another debate, and a terribly important one, unnecessarily and then a refusal to accept that debate when challenged.

You obviously don't want to answer the question of why you feel it is anti-feminist and would rather tell me you have trans friends, which is a real show of posturing that is worryingly irrelevant. I expect another angry response accusing me of being disrespectful to someone, somewhere, so I will leave you shout at pigeons.

'Going off on a tangent'? You, and your ostensibly male-oriented allies, were the ones who desperately, and tellingly, tried to drag the conversation away from the extremely important issue of male-on-female violence involving a member of the police force kidnapping and murdering a young woman, and the state-sponsored violence against women, to the self-serving subject of the rights of you, as a male, to enter hitherto previously only female-only spaces. 

And of course this means males, whatever their previous crimes and their current motivations, to be able to enter heretofore female-only spaces. Including women's prisons and women's refuges. 

In a large sense this has nothing to do with men trans people who suffer from body dysmorphia. 

Men will always hold certain physical advantages, and are never truly the victims. Certain biological realities always hold true. Women and girls will always be at physical disadvantage in relation to males, however those males choose to identify, and the dangers remain existential and real. And no sophistry on the part of you and your fellow liberals can ever realistically convince otherwise.

You will never fully understand this and have chosen never to even try and understand the issue.


Thanks for teaching me so much about myself. LOL I asked you why you needed to involve that word and why, you got angry, accusatory and have gone off on half-baked nonsense with no basis in anything, before coming up with the above. I used to think I was angry!
Of course I don't fully understand it, that's why I asked the question and have yet to receive a proper answer. 
All this nonsense about 'women's spaces' and men trying to get into them has been largely disproven by anyone with any sophistry on the matter.

My own opinion was built on trying to understand what both sides are saying because I won't ever fully understand it, but the 'TERF' argument holds little water except for the Helen Lovejoy/Kirstie Allsopp/WI brigade on Mums etc.
I usually don't discuss it because I want to hear a proper argument against trans rights but I have yet to hear one. Maybe your trans friends will have heard some.

P.S.: not everyone with empathy for trans rights is a liberal. I think you just think everyone is a liberal because you are the only true left-winger in the world. I thought the interjection from Newry was harsh, but it seems to have been his best and most accurate one-liner yet. 

You're one of the more considered and thoughtful posters on here, with a great sense of humour, and I enjoy many of your contributions.

But I would urge you to reconsider your acceptance and endorsement of such deeply harmful and misogynistic terms such as 'feminazi' and 'terf', and your blithe disregard of female misgivings of their expectance, by the likes of you, to cede hard-earned ground to male-born people in heretofore female-only spaces, at the risk of their own personal safety, whatever their objections and the subsequent consequences. 

Males such such as you will always have a physical and deeply ingrained Institutionally-endorsed advantage over women.

You could never possibly fully understand how fearful it must be for women walking home knowing that male-bodied people such as yourself, however you choose to identify, are capable of easily overpowering them and doing them harm at any given moment. 

And I would only ask you to bear this in mind. 

Really what you are calling for is, as an already deeply privileged person, is to be afforded even more rights at the expense of a greatly more vulnerable class of people.

Again, a young woman was murdered. She is the victim in this, not you, or any other man.

And you really ought to think on that.

Have some humility.


Edited by NewtNewbie - 31 Mar 2021 at 8:06am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NewtNewbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 8:56am
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

How do you know I haven't? Getting angry and accusatory with no basis is just idiotic. You have gone off on a tangent because I picked up on a word you used that I felt was unnecessary and its own way disrespectful, certainly by the standards you are setting. It has nothing to do with Sarah Everard's murder or the reaction of the police at the vigil of her death. It was trying to sneak in another debate, and a terribly important one, unnecessarily and then a refusal to accept that debate when challenged.

You obviously don't want to answer the question of why you feel it is anti-feminist and would rather tell me you have trans friends, which is a real show of posturing that is worryingly irrelevant. I expect another angry response accusing me of being disrespectful to someone, somewhere, so I will leave you shout at pigeons.

'Going off on a tangent'? You, and your ostensibly male-oriented allies, were the ones who desperately, and tellingly, tried to drag the conversation away from the extremely important issue of male-on-female violence involving a member of the police force kidnapping and murdering a young woman, and the state-sponsored violence against women, to the self-serving subject of the rights of you, as a male, to enter hitherto previously only female-only spaces. 

And of course this means males, whatever their previous crimes and their current motivations, to be able to enter heretofore female-only spaces. Including women's prisons and women's refuges. 

In a large sense this has nothing to do with men trans people who suffer from body dysmorphia. 

Men will always hold certain physical advantages, and are never truly the victims. Certain biological realities always hold true. Women and girls will always be at physical disadvantage in relation to males, however those males choose to identify, and the dangers remain existential and real. And no sophistry on the part of you and your fellow liberals can ever realistically convince otherwise.

You will never fully understand this and have chosen never to even try and understand the issue.


Thanks for teaching me so much about myself. LOL I asked you why you needed to involve that word and why, you got angry, accusatory and have gone off on half-baked nonsense with no basis in anything, before coming up with the above. I used to think I was angry!
Of course I don't fully understand it, that's why I asked the question and have yet to receive a proper answer. 
All this nonsense about 'women's spaces' and men trying to get into them has been largely disproven by anyone with any sophistry on the matter.

My own opinion was built on trying to understand what both sides are saying because I won't ever fully understand it, but the 'TERF' argument holds little water except for the Helen Lovejoy/Kirstie Allsopp/WI brigade on Mums etc.
I usually don't discuss it because I want to hear a proper argument against trans rights but I have yet to hear one. Maybe your trans friends will have heard some.

P.S.: not everyone with empathy for trans rights is a liberal. I think you just think everyone is a liberal because you are the only true left-winger in the world. I thought the interjection from Newry was harsh, but it seems to have been his best and most accurate one-liner yet. 

Show me this is the case. And, by the way, you obviously don't understand the word 'sophistry'.

And just as a 'for instance' :

'Currently, a pre-operative, pre-hormone therapy, male-to-female transgender prisoner is being held in Limerick women’s prison.... It is understood that the prisoner was assigned a high level of monitoring after being convicted of ten counts of sexual assault and one count of cruelty against a child.

https://www.lawsociety.ie/gazette/top-stories/male-bodied-transgender-inmate-housed-with-women-prisoners/

'A teenager who was “born a male but identifies as a female” is facing four counts of making threats to kill or cause serious harm. The accused, who has demonstrated a pattern of criminal and extreme physical and sexual violence towards women, is eager to be held in female custody while awaiting trial... the 17-year-old was a backseat passenger in a car when, suddenly and without provocation, he lunged forward and dug his nails into the eyes of the female care worker driving the vehicle. The teen wrapped his “legs around the victim’s head and chest, refusing to let go, and bit the care worker on the hand” while threatening to kill her. The care worker was left with torn eyelids. “Clumps” of hair had been ripped from her scalp. The woman had to be hospitalized.'

https://www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-teen-charged-with-making-death-threats-against-two-individuals/

Does this really seem right to you?

Vulnerable women being caged with violent male offenders? This is what you're advocating for.
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Robbie Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 9:06am
Again, thanks for the condescension, I know well what it means. Well done if you do too. I asked you a question, you got angry, ranted, ignored it and now are asking me a question. 

Too give my own view, but I am still waiting on someone to prove me different with something other than extreme examples, and that's what these are; I think that punishing a vulnerable section of society because of these extreme examples is grossly unfair. It feels like a rehashing of the arguments about homosexuals being paedophiles. That's why it feels very WI/Kirstie Allsopp/ Helen Lovejoy.
I am sure I could spend two minutes on line and find countless examples of trans people being threatened because language like this is being used against them and extremists then assume every trans person is a threat. I think that is exceptional dangerous.

I have not yet heard a reasonable argument against or met an intelligent, progressive 'cis' female who has a problem with it. Bizarrely, most of the people with a problem with it are men, like good old Glinner, who seem to think it will help them get laid.
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NewtNewbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 9:54am
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Again, thanks for the condescension, I know well what it means. Well done if you do too. I asked you a question, you got angry, ranted, ignored it and now are asking me a question. 

Too give my own view, but I am still waiting on someone to prove me different with something other than extreme examples, and that's what these are; I think that punishing a vulnerable section of society because of these extreme examples is grossly unfair. It feels like a rehashing of the arguments about homosexuals being paedophiles. That's why it feels very WI/Kirstie Allsopp/ Helen Lovejoy.
I am sure I could spend two minutes on line and find countless examples of trans people being threatened because language like this is being used against them and extremists then assume every trans person is a threat. I think that is exceptional dangerous.

I have not yet heard a reasonable argument against or met an intelligent, progressive 'cis' female who has a problem with it. Bizarrely, most of the people with a problem with it are men, like good old Glinner, who seem to think it will help them get laid.

Extreme examples'? There will be many more 'extreme examples' as time goes on. This is the outcome of what you and your lot have brought about.

The problem with you liberals and your extremely devisive and polarising identitarian politics is that you've arbitrarily created a hierarcy of victimhood where some victims are more deserving than others. Whether some class groups are more vulnerable than others simply doesn't come into it, because, really, when it comes down to it, it's all about who are the fashionable causes of the time. 

It's all self-serving posturing and grandstanding. Gary Lineker being a prime proponent of this kind of attitude. 

You then try and pass off your bland, vanilla corporate-sponsored  state-endorsed views as revolutionary, unique and those of a enlightened minority rather than the orthodoxy of the day. 

The 'prevailing truth' as Orwell put it. 

Men are not victims. A woman has been murdered and yet you seek to push back against women's rights in furtherance of your own interests as a man.

You have absolutely no right to demand the ability to march into women-only spaces with out the unanimous approval of women. And dismissing women who have concerns as to their own safety as not being 'intelligent' does you no credit.

To use one of you liberal's stock phrases, you just don't have the 'lived experience' of being female and are not even trying to understand the issue.


Edited by NewtNewbie - 31 Mar 2021 at 10:00am
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Robbie Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 10:00am
I am not a liberal and again that completely avoids the point. Gary Lineker is a tax-dodging **** and has nothing whatsoever to do with the mania you have bought into on this. If you want to be angry about it, knock yourself out, but it is hurting vulnerable people because you refuse to empathise or accept their situation. I think there are much better directions for your extreme anger and hate.
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Double Maxim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2021 at 2:51pm
Double Maxim without doubt the greatest drink in the world
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 2021 at 9:10am
UKIP's candidate for Mayor of London is called Peter Gammons. Haha.
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