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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hotlips_Hoolahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2022 at 1:49am
Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:

Originally posted by SeaSharp SeaSharp wrote:

Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:

Comes on as a sub for Everton in the PL today.

19 year-old striker getting PL game-time. 

Admittedly, I've never seem him play, but the preceding sentence is enough for me to say he should be in our next senior squad.  

Kenny needs to get these guys involved - yesterday.  

As for Kenny's failure to integrate Hodge and Smallbone .....  Ermm 

Or even make a (senior) effort with Gallagher and Bellingham back when they were underage and flying below the radar...
This is so silly. You think Bellingham was flying under the radar when he was bossing championship games aged 16. You must live in an actual dream land if you think we ever had a chance there 

Jude Bellingham - aged 4 or 5 below.  Has strong Irish heritage. 

He wasn't bossing Championship games at 16.  He was a talented young winger that got a goal every 10 games or so in England's second division and was playing underage internationally.  

Was he good enough that we should have been looking into getting him involved at some level on the senior side - even in an extended squad?  Definitely.  

Was any effort made (even if arguably unlikely to succeed)?  Seemingly not. 

Image

I remember when Wayne Rooney broke through, the FAI approached him and were given short shrift. Kane, Maddison, Bamford, Gallagher, Grealish, Rice, James and countless others have all either been in the setup or been approached. They all chose to go with England even when caps were not immediately forthcoming. As for Bellingham wearing an Ireland jersey when he was a toddler. Do you think he put that on himself? It doesn't mean anything.

Same kind of logic as Nialler on the Joe Hodge thread coming out with nonsense about Hodge's dad wanting him to play for us, Hodge learning Irish, Hodge being committed, England being angry that he left their setup. Source: "trust me bro". When if you read the articles since his injury return, Hodge doesn't mention anything about seniors and says he's looking forward to playing with the 21's. Not to mention the fact he was a bit-part player when he left the English setup to be an integral player with us. Source: Transfermarkt/Soccerway.

This isn't Championship Manager. Lads like Bellingham are not stupid enough to tie themselves down in the 94th minute of a game against Andorra, not that lads with his potential would be anywhere near our setup. For God's sake, his brother Jobe hasn't even shown any interest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eoink21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2022 at 11:35am
Independent interview is behind a paywall but Hodge clearly states that his father wanted him to at least give Ireland a go and he definitely states that he wants to break into the senior side. Whether or not he eventually does, I don't know, but you not wanting something to have been said doesn't mean it hasn't. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hotlips_Hoolahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2022 at 12:00pm
Originally posted by Eoink21 Eoink21 wrote:

Independent interview is behind a paywall but Hodge clearly states that his father wanted him to at least give Ireland a go and he definitely states that he wants to break into the senior side. Whether or not he eventually does, I don't know, but you not wanting something to have been said doesn't mean it hasn't. 
Source: "trust me bro".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2022 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by Eoink21 Eoink21 wrote:

Independent interview is behind a paywall but Hodge clearly states that his father wanted him to at least give Ireland a go and he definitely states that he wants to break into the senior side. Whether or not he eventually does, I don't know, but you not wanting something to have been said doesn't mean it hasn't. 

There's no point in even engaging, all the evidence in the world will just be dismissed as "trust me bro" speculation, while idle suspicion that no one born outside of Ireland could possibly consider themselves Irish will be elevated as gospel. You can't convince a conspiracy theorist of their own absurdity.
We're decent enough..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hotlips_Hoolahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2022 at 12:18pm
Meanwhile Nialler still hasn't responded to Baggio's question about sources from three years ago :https://forum.ybig.ie/joe-hodge_topic57102_page1.html and has already been called out about his easily disproven assertions about Hodge leaving the England set-up despite being "one of their most important players". Hodge has bounced between the setups. It's not a conspiracy to say that he could play for England when he has played for them in the past and remains eligible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eoink21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2022 at 2:46pm
Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Meanwhile Nialler still hasn't responded to Baggio's question about sources from three years ago :https://forum.ybig.ie/joe-hodge_topic57102_page1.html and has already been called out about his easily disproven assertions about Hodge leaving the England set-up despite being "one of their most important players". Hodge has bounced between the setups. It's not a conspiracy to say that he could play for England when he has played for them in the past and remains eligible.

That wasn't all you said though. Nobody has denied this fact.


Edited by Eoink21 - 27 Dec 2022 at 2:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AbuAbu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2022 at 10:21pm
Tom Cannon thread I thought! 

How good is he??
It's not me it's you:-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nialler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 12:25am
Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Meanwhile Nialler still hasn't responded to Baggio's question about sources from three years ago :https://forum.ybig.ie/joe-hodge_topic57102_page1.html and has already been called out about his easily disproven assertions about Hodge leaving the England set-up despite being "one of their most important players". Hodge has bounced between the setups. It's not a conspiracy to say that he could play for England when he has played for them in the past and remains eligible.

Who is Baggio? No clue what you are talking about there.
He was between setups and bouncing. I said he then choose Ireland over England when the decision had to be made. A lot of people were unhappy about it on the England side. He was hot property and in the best academy on the planet was he not?  A lot of it had to do with his dad too. Its all on England forums. I read them at the time. I am not bothered to search because who cares, do it if it means that much to ya. Any lad playing age groups up is a de facto important under age player.

He was moved up to 17's at 15 in England and you are right got less minutes but the year before at few weeks past 15 played under 16's and played all 8 games and 635 minutes. You had to really nitpick to find a moan on that comment. A Clear animus toward any dual eligible players causing it.

https://youtu.be/nKPciAEoxOE?t=200
In his own words. he had a decision to make and he choose us and is sticking with it. He is happy with us and it was a great decision.

Your very thin assertion repeatedly is he could have turned downed the call up already and Kenny is protecting him with literally 0 evidence. Glass houses lad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hotlips_Hoolahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 12:44am
"I said he then choose Ireland over England when the decision had to be made."

What decision? Underage caps aren't binding! 

"He was hot property and in the best academy on the planet was he not?"

And what club is he at now?

"Your very thin assertion repeatedly is he could have turned downed the call up already and Kenny is protecting him with literally 0 evidence. Glass houses lad."

I'm not the only one (You Tell Me) who pointed out the possibility of Kenny covering for him in the case of him declining an immediate senior call-up. Kenny is more diplomatic than McCarthy, O'Neill and Trapattoni. He said he was going to fast track players like Hodge to avoid the mistakes of his predecessors and he hasn't done it with Hodge despite calling up Ferguson. Now maybe he's just worried about his job, hence going with "reliables" like Hourihane, but we don't know that he didn't try calling up Hodge so it's a bit hasty having a go at him if he's just exercising diplomacy and restraint with Hodge.

I've never made any assertions about anything. I'm just raising a possibility.


Edited by Hotlips_Hoolahan - 29 Dec 2022 at 12:45am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scissors Kick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 1:00am
I think I raised this as a possibility first a few days back. 
It may not be but it absolutely could be, so those dismissing it because of things he's said are very naive IMO. The lad is English. With one grandparent as the link I do not believe its actually possible to feel more Irish than English even if he wanted to. 

Latvia, if he stays involved at Wolves and doesn't feature then we'll know.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 8:29am
Originally posted by Scissors Kick Scissors Kick wrote:

I think I raised this as a possibility first a few days back. 
It may not be but it absolutely could be, so those dismissing it because of things he's said are very naive IMO. The lad is English. With one grandparent as the link I do not believe its actually possible to feel more Irish than English even if he wanted to. 

Latvia, if he stays involved at Wolves and doesn't feature then we'll know.


Thank you, great arbiter of nationality. Nice to know you have an inside track into the lads own mind on his identity. 

As for the following sentence, why would it matter a jot to Hodge, Cannon, or any other person what you think it is possible to feel about nationality? Are you a uniquely positioned individual to provide this insight?
We're decent enough..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nialler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

"I said he then choose Ireland over England when the decision had to be made."

What decision? Underage caps aren't binding! 

"He was hot property and in the best academy on the planet was he not?"

And what club is he at now?

"Your very thin assertion repeatedly is he could have turned downed the call up already and Kenny is protecting him with literally 0 evidence. Glass houses lad."

I'm not the only one (You Tell Me) who pointed out the possibility of Kenny covering for him in the case of him declining an immediate senior call-up. Kenny is more diplomatic than McCarthy, O'Neill and Trapattoni. He said he was going to fast track players like Hodge to avoid the mistakes of his predecessors and he hasn't done it with Hodge despite calling up Ferguson. Now maybe he's just worried about his job, hence going with "reliables" like Hourihane, but we don't know that he didn't try calling up Hodge so it's a bit hasty having a go at him if he's just exercising diplomacy and restraint with Hodge.

I've never made any assertions about anything. I'm just raising a possibility.


The decision he made still has a very big impact? lets not pretend  it makes no difference binding or not.
There is no evidence to say Kenny would have called him up the lad only started making appearances for Wolves at senior level recently. V unlikely.

I agree on the last bit. Kenny is under alot of pressure and picking experienced players. This is partly where my frustration comes from.
I think the FAI are partly to blame in the pressure he is under. He is between a rock and hard place.
I still think he could get his experienced players in and have 2 or 3 spots for new caps. do we need 3 older  left wingbacks for example. I think he should be focused on age profiles and talent ceilings a lot more than he is. We should also be a bit more like Italy where players can move up and down from 21's. The process should be a lot clearer.

Hopefully the next manager ends up with the benefit from his work. He is very unlikely to survive the next quals.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nialler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 3:30pm
Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:

Originally posted by SeaSharp SeaSharp wrote:

Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:

Comes on as a sub for Everton in the PL today.

19 year-old striker getting PL game-time. 

Admittedly, I've never seem him play, but the preceding sentence is enough for me to say he should be in our next senior squad.  

Kenny needs to get these guys involved - yesterday.  

As for Kenny's failure to integrate Hodge and Smallbone .....  Ermm 

Or even make a (senior) effort with Gallagher and Bellingham back when they were underage and flying below the radar...
This is so silly. You think Bellingham was flying under the radar when he was bossing championship games aged 16. You must live in an actual dream land if you think we ever had a chance there 

Jude Bellingham - aged 4 or 5 below.  Has strong Irish heritage. 

He wasn't bossing Championship games at 16.  He was a talented young winger that got a goal every 10 games or so in England's second division and was playing underage internationally.  

Was he good enough that we should have been looking into getting him involved at some level on the senior side - even in an extended squad?  Definitely.  

Was any effort made (even if arguably unlikely to succeed)?  Seemingly not. 

Image

I remember when Wayne Rooney broke through, the FAI approached him and were given short shrift. Kane, Maddison, Bamford, Gallagher, Grealish, Rice, James and countless others have all either been in the setup or been approached. They all chose to go with England even when caps were not immediately forthcoming. As for Bellingham wearing an Ireland jersey when he was a toddler. Do you think he put that on himself? It doesn't mean anything.

Same kind of logic as Nialler on the Joe Hodge thread coming out with nonsense about Hodge's dad wanting him to play for us, Hodge learning Irish, Hodge being committed, England being angry that he left their setup. Source: "trust me bro". When if you read the articles since his injury return, Hodge doesn't mention anything about seniors and says he's looking forward to playing with the 21's. Not to mention the fact he was a bit-part player when he left the English setup to be an integral player with us. Source: Transfermarkt/Soccerway.

This isn't Championship Manager. Lads like Bellingham are not stupid enough to tie themselves down in the 94th minute of a game against Andorra, not that lads with his potential would be anywhere near our setup. For God's sake, his brother Jobe hasn't even shown any interest.


His dad plays a huge part in his career.  You are actually outrageous. Does his dad not manage players? LOL
He was playing age groups up. You probably know that just choosing to leave it out. the previous season he played 650 minutes in 8 games an age group above. in 18 months played 15 times for England underage but a bit part player!! All your arguments are completely disingenuous and all just to cast doubt over people representing Ireland. It is sad. The English were very annoyed by it. It is all in English forums. I told you already where I found all of this. I am just not doing "sourcing" for you as I am not a journalist.

You don't care about sourcing anyway you just have a ferocious appetite to neg dual nationality players especially the English ones.

Will you continue to neg him after he wins a cap though? or will it forever be he could never have played for England is the only reason he is here?






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hotlips_Hoolahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2022 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by Nialler Nialler wrote:

Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:

Originally posted by SeaSharp SeaSharp wrote:

Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:

Comes on as a sub for Everton in the PL today.

19 year-old striker getting PL game-time. 

Admittedly, I've never seem him play, but the preceding sentence is enough for me to say he should be in our next senior squad.  

Kenny needs to get these guys involved - yesterday.  

As for Kenny's failure to integrate Hodge and Smallbone .....  Ermm 

Or even make a (senior) effort with Gallagher and Bellingham back when they were underage and flying below the radar...
This is so silly. You think Bellingham was flying under the radar when he was bossing championship games aged 16. You must live in an actual dream land if you think we ever had a chance there 

Jude Bellingham - aged 4 or 5 below.  Has strong Irish heritage. 

He wasn't bossing Championship games at 16.  He was a talented young winger that got a goal every 10 games or so in England's second division and was playing underage internationally.  

Was he good enough that we should have been looking into getting him involved at some level on the senior side - even in an extended squad?  Definitely.  

Was any effort made (even if arguably unlikely to succeed)?  Seemingly not. 


I remember when Wayne Rooney broke through, the FAI approached him and were given short shrift. Kane, Maddison, Bamford, Gallagher, Grealish, Rice, James and countless others have all either been in the setup or been approached. They all chose to go with England even when caps were not immediately forthcoming. As for Bellingham wearing an Ireland jersey when he was a toddler. Do you think he put that on himself? It doesn't mean anything.

Same kind of logic as Nialler on the Joe Hodge thread coming out with nonsense about Hodge's dad wanting him to play for us, Hodge learning Irish, Hodge being committed, England being angry that he left their setup. Source: "trust me bro". When if you read the articles since his injury return, Hodge doesn't mention anything about seniors and says he's looking forward to playing with the 21's. Not to mention the fact he was a bit-part player when he left the English setup to be an integral player with us. Source: Transfermarkt/Soccerway.

This isn't Championship Manager. Lads like Bellingham are not stupid enough to tie themselves down in the 94th minute of a game against Andorra, not that lads with his potential would be anywhere near our setup. For God's sake, his brother Jobe hasn't even shown any interest.


His dad plays a huge part in his career.  You are actually outrageous. Does his dad not manage players? LOL
He was playing age groups up. You probably know that just choosing to leave it out. the previous season he played 650 minutes in 8 games an age group above. in 18 months played 15 times for England underage but a bit part player!! All your arguments are completely disingenuous and all just to cast doubt over people representing Ireland. It is sad. The English were very annoyed by it. It is all in English forums. I told you already where I found all of this. I am just not doing "sourcing" for you as I am not a journalist.

You don't care about sourcing anyway you just have a ferocious appetite to neg dual nationality players especially the English ones.

Will you continue to neg him after he wins a cap though? or will it forever be he could never have played for England is the only reason he is here?







Steve Cooper preferred an Azeez/Musah pivot and Hodge switched to Ireland because he'd start every game as opposed to being a bit-part player. Funny you keep mentioning his dad with unsourced tidbits, most of which are demonstrable nonsense (best player at that age group with City as opposed to someone like Cole Palmer...). His dad used to post on BigSoccer and sounded pretty delighted when Hodge was called up for England at underage level. Also apparently instrumental in getting Hodge to play for Ireland because he'd feature more. 

Anyways, he might play for Ireland, he might play for England. My main bone of contention is people attacking Stephen Kenny and Keith Andrews and the FAI for not being proactive enough when it's clearly nonsense.

Andrews has been very proactive in encouraging the McGlynn lad and Kenny delivered a great pitch to Finn and his family.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nialler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2022 at 1:26pm
Me: his dad played a big part in him moving
You: "Funny you keep mentioning his dad with unsourced tidbits"

Later on in same post by you..

His dad played a big part in him moving to Ireland LOL
Got there eventually LOL
Me: ONE of the best players at his age group and is playing up age groups. You : names Cole Palmer. While Hodge gets academy player of the year 2 years after the switch LOL  

I am not criticising Kenny for not proactively going after players like Mcglynn. I actually think he has been good on that front. I am criticising him for picking players well past their best and too old in 2 years for tournaments over players in our system with clear talent and in need of experience (and caps) not starting 11 players but why not number 20-27 in the squad. 

Also make a pathway both ways between seniors and 21's. Up and down. Make the 21's a bigger deal and share their best. Italy and Portugal do it so why not us


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hotlips_Hoolahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2022 at 1:36pm
Originally posted by Nialler Nialler wrote:

Me: his dad played a big part in him moving
You: "Funny you keep mentioning his dad with unsourced tidbits"

Later on in same post by you..

His dad played a big part in him moving to Ireland LOL
Got there eventually LOL
Me: ONE of the best players at his age group and is playing up age groups. You : names Cole Palmer. While Hodge gets academy player of the year 2 years after the switch LOL  

I am not criticising Kenny for not proactively going after players like Mcglynn. I actually think he has been good on that front. I am criticising him for picking players well past their best and too old in 2 years for tournaments over players in our system with clear talent and in need of experience (and caps) not starting 11 players but why not number 20-27 in the squad. 

Also make a pathway both ways between seniors and 21's. Up and down. Make the 21's a bigger deal and share their best. Italy and Portugal do it so why not us



His dad encouraged him to play for Ireland for reasons completely different to all the "learning Irish"/"learning the anthem" sentimental reasons you came out with. Reasons which fly in the face of him being committed to playing for Ireland at senior level, which is completely different to being committed to playing for Ireland at junior level.

Who are these players who should be starting ahead of Molumby, Knight and Hendrick? Smallbone? He's had a mediocre season for Stoke. Hodge? He's started one league game and we don't know that Kenny didn't try calling him up. Vata? He's played ten minutes in his senior career. Jack Taylor? Who is being deprived of rightful playing time here?

This isn't Championship Manager. We don't cap every player who's eligible for us in second half stoppage time of competitive games to tie them down forever more on the off chance that they turn out to be good enough (not that eligible players are idiots with no autonomy of their own).

It would be a waste of time and resources, similar in futility to Martin O'Neill chasing up players who aren't eligible http://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/oneill-in-tug-of-war-for-hot-prospect-redmond-29879535.html and Mick McCarthy doing the same thing 5! years later https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/nathan-redmond-ireland-england-squad-16156651.amp


Edited by Hotlips_Hoolahan - 04 Jan 2023 at 1:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nialler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2022 at 2:18pm
You literally put arguments in my mouth I didn't make. 
You are great at making points against those arguments though fair play.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hotlips_Hoolahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jan 2023 at 11:26pm
Sheffield Wednesday favourites to sign him on loan. Also linked with Luke McNally.


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