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Robbie Keane
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Originally posted by GB 1HughJarse GB 1HughJarse wrote:

Scotland up to 4th in the World Rankings after their win over Australia, and I thought the FIFA rankings were a joke.
Why? The rankings are pretty accurate if you look at results over the past 18 months. There is very little between 3rd and 9th, which is a pretty fair reflection on the state of play. I think the method used is pretty accurate, the problem with FIFA's method is that it treats friendly matches with more respect than the associations do, although they will argue that it is each nation's prerogative how they treat those games.
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by GB 1HughJarse GB 1HughJarse wrote:

Scotland up to 4th in the World Rankings after their win over Australia, and I thought the FIFA rankings were a joke.

Why? The rankings are pretty accurate if you look at results over the past 18 months. There is very little between 3rd and 9th, which is a pretty fair reflection on the state of play. I think the method used is pretty accurate, the problem with FIFA's method is that it treats friendly matches with more respect than the associations do, although they will argue that it is each nation's prerogative how they treat those games.


Scotland Six Nations
2017 P5 W3
2016 P5 W2
2015 P5 W0
2014 P5 W1

6 wins from 20 matches in the last 4 years.
2015 World Cup, lost in quarter finals.
Hardly setting the world alight.
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I think if Romania beat Canada and Italy lose then Romania will go ahead of them
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Originally posted by GB 1HughJarse GB 1HughJarse wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by GB 1HughJarse GB 1HughJarse wrote:

Scotland up to 4th in the World Rankings after their win over Australia, and I thought the FIFA rankings were a joke.

Why? The rankings are pretty accurate if you look at results over the past 18 months. There is very little between 3rd and 9th, which is a pretty fair reflection on the state of play. I think the method used is pretty accurate, the problem with FIFA's method is that it treats friendly matches with more respect than the associations do, although they will argue that it is each nation's prerogative how they treat those games.


Scotland Six Nations
2017 P5 W3
2016 P5 W2
2015 P5 W0
2014 P5 W1

6 wins from 20 matches in the last 4 years.
2015 World Cup, lost in quarter finals.
Hardly setting the world alight.
It is weighted towards recent results and points are awarded for defeats within 15 points. In effect, Scotland's only bad result in that period was the hammering in Twickenham. Their performances 2 years ago will have little or no bearing. They have been very consistent over the last 18 months and gained some revenge for recent narrow defeats to a faltering Australia. They have also beaten Ireland, Wales and Argentina too.
Over the past couple of seasons all teams have been beating each other,  Ireland finished second in the 6 nations with two losses and are still third. There is very little between the teams third through to ninth, with fourth being about right for the Scots, at this particular moment in time.
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Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

It's always a great tradition for non-selected or semi-retired players to go on holiday somewhere in the general geographical area of a British Loins tour, and to bring a pair of boots while they're at it. A sort of unofficial Dad's Army touring reserve.

Shane Williams' call up in 2013 was my favourite of the genre.

Simon Zebo really should have booked himself a couple of weeks in Bali or the Gold Coast. 

He'd be seeing test time if he had.


My favourite one is Tom Court, as it manages to tie in 2 of the more farcical elements of Rugby. Occasional reserve prop forward for Ireland, he happened to be in Australia when the Lions were there & seeking replacements. He was likely there because that is actually where he is from, Australia, not Ireland. Pinnacle of his career, no doubt (It probably was, come to think of it). 
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Any chance of the scientist getting a call up and keeping him out there for a while
AKA pedantic kunt
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:


I don't believe the first bit is true and is only the most valid reason he could give the media. Those lads were called up because they know his game plan and he trusts them with it because they are Welsh. There is nothing essentially wrong with that but the reaction wouldn't have been measured. In the case of the Scottish lads, Russell should have been in from the start anyway and Dell is a bit of tokenism to balance out the geography argument.

I agree with a lot of that, if you are in the top 2 in your position in one of the 4 nations then you are in a pool of 120 automatically, getting into the 60 or 70 that end up involved is hardly a bigger honour than winning something with your actual country, or even club/province.

 There is, obviously, an honour in captaining a team that is made up of the best of the four nations and a test series win would be an achievement for these lads, but what is fascinating about it , for me at least, is how it fits in with modern professionalism. I don't think that a sport could ever have gone professional in such a haphazard way, it always seems to me like the chaps decided on a Saturday night that they should go professional from the next day. Player welfare wasn't thought of, the physical size that lads paid to train would get wasn't thought of, the balance between clubs paying big wages and the international game which remains the pinnacle and the obsession with tradition while trying to develop and grow the sport outwith the traditional heartlands.
I suppose you have to credit the IRFU in that department, through a mixture of circumstance, opportunism and enterprise they have been one of the few Unions to make the adjustment pretty well, even if international results have been a disappointment in comparison.

As for journalists and fans picking their squads in advance, it is just what fans do. I am sure you have remarked on the debate that goes on here over who should make MON's next 67 man squad, a debate that will have no impact on anything at all other than who is fifth choice right winger or eighth choice centre-half. Although, as I am here, the fact we don't really have a second choice left back, despite these squads, is a concern.


Haven't got time to go through all that now, beer garden calling, but agree to captain or be selected on the test team is a genuine achievement, I have no issue with that .

Multiple Journos do not have 4 page spreads in the Sunday Times picking various 60 man squads for Ireland/ MON from here to the Georgia game as we all know, give or take 1 or 2, who is going to be in them anyway, and who maybe 8 of the 1st 11 will be in the team. There is plenty on here debating the 9th choice CB & 16th choice midfielder alright, but this is a dedicated forum, not half the main sports section of the mainstream sports media, during which time there would be football, GAA, horse racing & whatever other major sporting events are happening at the time to be covered as well. I think there is a difference. (Bollixology). 
Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by GB 1HughJarse GB 1HughJarse wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by GB 1HughJarse GB 1HughJarse wrote:

Scotland up to 4th in the World Rankings after their win over Australia, and I thought the FIFA rankings were a joke.

Why? The rankings are pretty accurate if you look at results over the past 18 months. There is very little between 3rd and 9th, which is a pretty fair reflection on the state of play. I think the method used is pretty accurate, the problem with FIFA's method is that it treats friendly matches with more respect than the associations do, although they will argue that it is each nation's prerogative how they treat those games.


Scotland Six Nations
2017 P5 W3
2016 P5 W2
2015 P5 W0
2014 P5 W1

6 wins from 20 matches in the last 4 years.
2015 World Cup, lost in quarter finals.
Hardly setting the world alight.

It is weighted towards recent results and points are awarded for defeats within 15 points. In effect, Scotland's only bad result in that period was the hammering in Twickenham. Their performances 2 years ago will have little or no bearing. They have been very consistent over the last 18 months and gained some revenge for recent narrow defeats to a faltering Australia. They have also beaten Ireland, Wales and Argentina too.
Over the past couple of seasons all teams have been beating each other,  Ireland finished second in the 6 nations with two losses and are still third. There is very little between the teams third through to ninth, with fourth being about right for the Scots, at this particular moment in time.


Fair enough, point taken.
Maybe FIFA should adopt these calculations.
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deise316 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by deise316 deise316 wrote:

4 Welsh lads called up as replacements, mainly because they happen to be touring nearby. 

Pinnacle of a rugby player's career. 2 years of bollixology written in media about how difficult it is to get selected, many, many journos picking squads in the months leading up to selection, differing teams each week depending on 6N results/performances. Then, later on, when nobody is really looking, replacements get called up due to proximity of geographical location, performance has nothing much to do with it.




I don't believe the first bit is true and is only the most valid reason he could give the media. Those lads were called up because they know his game plan and he trusts them with it because they are Welsh. There is nothing essentially wrong with that but the reaction wouldn't have been measured. In the case of the Scottish lads, Russell should have been in from the start anyway and Dell is a bit of tokenism to balance out the geography argument.

I agree with a lot of that, if you are in the top 2 in your position in one of the 4 nations then you are in a pool of 120 automatically, getting into the 60 or 70 that end up involved is hardly a bigger honour than winning something with your actual country, or even club/province.

 There is, obviously, an honour in captaining a team that is made up of the best of the four nations and a test series win would be an achievement for these lads, but what is fascinating about it , for me at least, is how it fits in with modern professionalism. I don't think that a sport could ever have gone professional in such a haphazard way, it always seems to me like the chaps decided on a Saturday night that they should go professional from the next day. Player welfare wasn't thought of, the physical size that lads paid to train would get wasn't thought of, the balance between clubs paying big wages and the international game which remains the pinnacle and the obsession with tradition while trying to develop and grow the sport outwith the traditional heartlands.
I suppose you have to credit the IRFU in that department, through a mixture of circumstance, opportunism and enterprise they have been one of the few Unions to make the adjustment pretty well, even if international results have been a disappointment in comparison.

As for journalists and fans picking their squads in advance, it is just what fans do. I am sure you have remarked on the debate that goes on here over who should make MON's next 67 man squad, a debate that will have no impact on anything at all other than who is fifth choice right winger or eighth choice centre-half. Although, as I am here, the fact we don't really have a second choice left back, despite these squads, is a concern.


Aye, yeah, they know the gameplan, he knows & trusts them etc, but none of it really matters in the big scheme of things as they are merely filling in for the effective reserve/midweek team, aka, in egg parlance, the dirt trackers. A term in itself that has little meaning beyond the insular phraseology of the sport, though, unusually for the modern game, one that also doesn't seem to have any military connotations (that I am aware of). The marketing lads may well get around to changing that, given time, a thesaurus, a spin doctor or 15 and a suitable budget.

Maybe it is because of the above, but, as Sid said, if Zebo had pulled out of the Ireland tour to Japan & gone to Christchurch just to look at how they are getting on with the reconstruction after last year's earthquake, he too would have achieved career pinacleness (I know that isn't actually a word, but if anyone from WR is reading, I'm trademarking it yesterday),  to be honest, if Ulster happened to be in the area, we would probably be looking at a good few more South African additions to add to the great tradition of something something and ya get the idea. 

How it fits in with modern professionalism is as follows, the Lions concept was dying a slow death, but they got a whole heap of corporate sponsors involved, added the marketing lads who created the world's most important rugby tournament out of sheer thin air (even though the strongest nation, France, never quite persuaded anyone they believed in it collectively, whatever about the exceptions of a few individual clubs/owners) , put it on PPV TV and sold it to lads who also believe Conor McGregor has a chance of beating Mayweather in boxing. Mission accomplished. 

The IRFU were absolutely anti professionalism and indeed repeatedly voted against it, and were dragged, kicking & screaming in to this new era. They have, to their credit, managed the transition quite well after they got their heads around it, which was roughly around the time Gordon Hamilton put us a few points up V Australia in LR in 1991, some 4 years after the game had theoretically gone pro. The Irish have always been excellent at identifying, then jumping on, any bandwagon going, and in that respect, the leaders of the IRFU identified this far quicker than most. 

After that, I think they made it up as they went along & got a tad lucky, but their management of the situation was genuinely excellent all the same, and lately, they have managed to move beyond their traditional base of the fee paying schools supplying the bulk of the players etc. Player welfare, the size of the lads (I'm old enough to remember when Jonah Lomu was a freak of nature, there are scum halves much the same size as him these days) and big wages simply didn't exist back then, and in comparison to where football has gone since it was invented a year later in 1992, still don't. 

As regards the debates over who makes the squads, I'll just hang on there until the main Sunday papers have a 4/6 page pullout section, 3 or 4 months in advance of the Georgia/Serbia games, for 16 weeks in a row, about the great debate over whether it is Stephen Quinn or Conor Hourihane who is definitively our 10th choice central midfielder. Even if that were to happen, Paul McShane can't decide that just by going on holidays to St Petersburg next June, he can effectively bypass the entire selection process & opinions of the management team & end up in the squad anyway. Though it would be the pinnacle of his career. 
Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....
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Originally posted by deise316 deise316 wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

It's always a great tradition for non-selected or semi-retired players to go on holiday somewhere in the general geographical area of a British Loins tour, and to bring a pair of boots while they're at it. A sort of unofficial Dad's Army touring reserve.

Shane Williams' call up in 2013 was my favourite of the genre.

Simon Zebo really should have booked himself a couple of weeks in Bali or the Gold Coast. 

He'd be seeing test time if he had.


My favourite one is Tom Court, as it manages to tie in 2 of the more farcical elements of Rugby. Occasional reserve prop forward for Ireland, he happened to be in Australia when the Lions were there & seeking replacements. He was likely there because that is actually where he is from, Australia, not Ireland. Pinnacle of his career, no doubt (It probably was, come to think of it). 



Fun fact: Tom Court has both a 100% winning ratio as a British Loins player and a 100% completed tackle ratio as a British Loins player.

That's true greatness. 
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New Zealand team: Joe Moody, Codie Taylor, Owen Franks, Brodie Retallick, Samuel Whitelock, Jerome Kaino, Sam Cane, Kieran Read (capt), Aaron Smith, Beauden Barrett, Rieko Ioane, Sonny Bill Williams, Ryan Crotty, Israel Dagg, Ben Smith.

Replacements: Nathan Harris, Wyatt Crockett, Charlie Faumuina, Scott Barrett, Ardie Savea, TJ Perenara, Aaron Cruden/Lima Sopoaga, Anton Lienert-Brown.
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Gatland named a decent enough team in the end to be fair to him. Picked form ahead of reputation on both the left wing and full back. As a result the back three, which has been a big issue on the tour so far, looks pacey and threatening. Still think it's a huge mistake to leave Itoje on the bench but apart from that I wouldn't really disagree with his selection.
Also good to see the ABs go with Crotty at 13 instead of yer man Lienert-Brown who looks excellent.
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Originally posted by Devrozex Devrozex wrote:

Gatland named a decent enough team in the end to be fair to him. Picked form ahead of reputation on both the left wing and full back. As a result the back three, which has been a big issue on the tour so far, looks pacey and threatening. Still think it's a huge mistake to leave Itoje on the bench but apart from that I wouldn't really disagree with his selection.
Also good to see the ABs go with Crotty at 13 instead of yer man Lienert-Brown who looks excellent.

Fairly strong looking team alright.

I think it will be close but they will have to play the perfect game to beat the All Blacks.

AB to win by 7-10

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itoje is a fantastic talent, but he's still a bit raw and going up against the best locks in the world you need a bit more experience. I'd agree with the jones/kruis selection. itoje will be a serious 'finisher' when he comes on for the last 20 minutes.
 
 
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Originally posted by alihau41 alihau41 wrote:

itoje is a fantastic talent, but he's still a bit raw and going up against the best locks in the world you need a bit more experience. I'd agree with the jones/kruis selection. itoje will be a serious 'finisher' when he comes on for the last 20 minutes.
 
 


Agree.

I think it's a smart selection by Gatland also not very biased towards Welsh players as people expected.

Still think All Blacks will win though
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Originally posted by lassassinblanc lassassinblanc wrote:

Originally posted by alihau41 alihau41 wrote:

itoje is a fantastic talent, but he's still a bit raw and going up against the best locks in the world you need a bit more experience. I'd agree with the jones/kruis selection. itoje will be a serious 'finisher' when he comes on for the last 20 minutes.
 
 


Agree.

I think it's a smart selection by Gatland also not very biased towards Welsh players as people expected.

Still think All Blacks will win though
 
 
8/23 are welsh for tomorrow. 9 English, 6 irish.
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So, will the Irish and British lions beat the All Blacks?
 
maybe with Cpt P O'Mahoney
may the road rise to meet you but make sure it does not slap you in the face
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Originally posted by alihau41 alihau41 wrote:

Originally posted by lassassinblanc lassassinblanc wrote:

Originally posted by alihau41 alihau41 wrote:

itoje is a fantastic talent, but he's still a bit raw and going up against the best locks in the world you need a bit more experience. I'd agree with the jones/kruis selection. itoje will be a serious 'finisher' when he comes on for the last 20 minutes.
 
 


Agree.

I think it's a smart selection by Gatland also not very biased towards Welsh players as people expected.

Still think All Blacks will win though
 
 
8/23 are welsh for tomorrow. 9 English, 6 irish.


Exactly most expected it be about 15 Welsh
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