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Russian Invasion of Ukraine
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Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


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Points: 3467 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OohAah... Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2024 at 4:27pm
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/why-john-mearsheimer-blames-the-us-for-the-crisis-in-ukraine

again another scholar on the subject who again follows the same consistent narrative that the likes of Sacks and Chomsky follow.
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Roy Keane
Roy Keane

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Points: 10691 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2024 at 4:28pm
Political organisations like civic groups and transparency agencies. That’s different to political parties.
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Roy Keane
Roy Keane

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Points: 10691 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2024 at 4:29pm
Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/why-john-mearsheimer-blames-the-us-for-the-crisis-in-ukraine

again another scholar on the subject who again follows the same consistent narrative that the likes of Sacks and Chomsky follow.

Ah! You’ve hit the hat trick!
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Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


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Points: 3467 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OohAah... Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2024 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Political organisations like civic groups and transparency agencies. That’s different to political parties.

LOLofcourse, its the US, no alterior motive
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Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


Joined: 09 Apr 2011
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Points: 3467 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OohAah... Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2024 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/why-john-mearsheimer-blames-the-us-for-the-crisis-in-ukraine

again another scholar on the subject who again follows the same consistent narrative that the likes of Sacks and Chomsky follow.

Ah! You’ve hit the hat trick!

but why all so consistent
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Roy Keane
Roy Keane

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Points: 10691 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2024 at 4:35pm
Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Political organisations like civic groups and transparency agencies. That’s different to political parties.

LOLofcourse, its the US, no alterior motive

How is funding for transparency a display of an ulterior motive?
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Roy Keane
Roy Keane

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Points: 10691 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2024 at 4:37pm
Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/why-john-mearsheimer-blames-the-us-for-the-crisis-in-ukraine

again another scholar on the subject who again follows the same consistent narrative that the likes of Sacks and Chomsky follow.

Ah! You’ve hit the hat trick!

but why all so consistent

Because they’re anti western ideologues and it’s consistent in the view point. He’s been peddling the Kremlin’s “provocation” line for years.
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Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


Joined: 09 Apr 2011
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Points: 3467 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OohAah... Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2024 at 4:38pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Political organisations like civic groups and transparency agencies. That’s different to political parties.

LOLofcourse, its the US, no alterior motive

How is funding for transparency a display of an ulterior motive?

its not a display. but do you think any of the money would go to a russian leaning politcal organisation?
With the US and its History and its Form?
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Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Location: Ireland
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Points: 3467 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OohAah... Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2024 at 4:39pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/why-john-mearsheimer-blames-the-us-for-the-crisis-in-ukraine

again another scholar on the subject who again follows the same consistent narrative that the likes of Sacks and Chomsky follow.

Ah! You’ve hit the hat trick!

but why all so consistent

Because they’re anti western ideologues and it’s consistent in the view point. He’s been peddling the Kremlin’s “provocation” line for years.

Or are they Realists and independant of bias
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Roy Keane
Roy Keane

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Joined: 08 Mar 2016
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Points: 10691 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2024 at 4:41pm
Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/why-john-mearsheimer-blames-the-us-for-the-crisis-in-ukraine

again another scholar on the subject who again follows the same consistent narrative that the likes of Sacks and Chomsky follow.

Ah! You’ve hit the hat trick!

but why all so consistent

Because they’re anti western ideologues and it’s consistent in the view point. He’s been peddling the Kremlin’s “provocation” line for years.

Or are they Realists and independant of bias

Ha! And you’ve been the one complaining about bias and narrative. 
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Roy Keane
Roy Keane

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Joined: 08 Mar 2016
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Points: 10691 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2024 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Political organisations like civic groups and transparency agencies. That’s different to political parties.

LOLofcourse, its the US, no alterior motive

How is funding for transparency a display of an ulterior motive?

its not a display. but do you think any of the money would go to a russian leaning politcal organisation?
With the US and its History and its Form?

Does it have to? Aren’t Russia involved in other states? Remember Sailsbury?
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Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


Joined: 09 Apr 2011
Location: Ireland
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Points: 3467 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OohAah... Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2024 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Political organisations like civic groups and transparency agencies. That’s different to political parties.

LOLofcourse, its the US, no alterior motive

How is funding for transparency a display of an ulterior motive?

its not a display. but do you think any of the money would go to a russian leaning politcal organisation?
With the US and its History and its Form?

Does it have to? Aren’t Russia involved in other states? Remember Sailsbury?

Yes both can be up to operations on foreign soil
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Roy Keane
Roy Keane

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Joined: 08 Mar 2016
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Points: 10691 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2024 at 5:00pm
Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Political organisations like civic groups and transparency agencies. That’s different to political parties.

LOLofcourse, its the US, no alterior motive

How is funding for transparency a display of an ulterior motive?

its not a display. but do you think any of the money would go to a russian leaning politcal organisation?
With the US and its History and its Form?

Does it have to? Aren’t Russia involved in other states? Remember Sailsbury?

Yes both can be up to operations on foreign soil

And why is that relevant in the context of the war in Ukraine? It’s implication at best, and then drawing a conclusion that makes no sense.
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Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


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Points: 3467 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OohAah... Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2024 at 5:14pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Political organisations like civic groups and transparency agencies. That’s different to political parties.

LOLofcourse, its the US, no alterior motive

How is funding for transparency a display of an ulterior motive?

its not a display. but do you think any of the money would go to a russian leaning politcal organisation?
With the US and its History and its Form?

Does it have to? Aren’t Russia involved in other states? Remember Sailsbury?

Yes both can be up to operations on foreign soil

And why is that relevant in the context of the war in Ukraine? It’s implication at best, and then drawing a conclusion that makes no sense.

Let me go back. As I said US have had political ( and other) interference in Ukraine pre Invasion. Ive gone back 20 years on the subject. Their form and their history would suggest to me they have had alterior motives in Ukraine( apart from the Democratic Flag waving, which their country doesnt even stand up to the test on) and have only benefiited through every stage financially even up to this very day with the latest package. Call this russian propoganda. but the bread crumbs are there and I dont think they can be dismissed as easily as you do.

You disgree. fine. But to me again if their plate was clean over there We wouldnt need to be having this conversation. but again We will be to differ.
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Roy Keane
Roy Keane

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Points: 10691 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2024 at 5:25pm
Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Political organisations like civic groups and transparency agencies. That’s different to political parties.

LOLofcourse, its the US, no alterior motive

How is funding for transparency a display of an ulterior motive?

its not a display. but do you think any of the money would go to a russian leaning politcal organisation?
With the US and its History and its Form?

Does it have to? Aren’t Russia involved in other states? Remember Sailsbury?

Yes both can be up to operations on foreign soil

And why is that relevant in the context of the war in Ukraine? It’s implication at best, and then drawing a conclusion that makes no sense.

Let me go back. As I said US have had political ( and other) interference in Ukraine pre Invasion. Ive gone back 20 years on the subject. Their form and their history would suggest to me they have had alterior motives in Ukraine( apart from the Democratic Flag waving, which their country doesnt even stand up to the test on) and have only benefiited through every stage financially even up to this very day with the latest package. Call this russian propoganda. but the bread crumbs are there and I dont think they can be dismissed as easily as you do.

You disgree. fine. But to me again if their plate was clean over there We wouldnt need to be having this conversation. but again We will be to differ.

We’re having this conversation because I have indulged the conversation a bit, even though I profoundly disagree. You might notice I’m far less willing to engage with the Donkey or that other clown TRV.
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Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


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Points: 4360 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eireland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2024 at 5:26pm
Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by eireland eireland wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by eireland eireland wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by eireland eireland wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Net effect is the same lads. and you cant argue that. Pick away at the use of the word democracy all you want. 2 proftable military machines where the electorate has no say
How is it the same? Has American invaded Mexico or Canada yet? That would be an equal bet result? Is president Bush ruling with an iron fist after 20 years in power and no end in sight?
Do you really want to go down the route of talking about Central and south American countries who' had political differemce of opinion  with the US
You've gone further south though. Like I said get back to me when the US Invades Canada or Mexico like Putin I'm Ukraine.
But why would they? They are politically  aligned. A bit like Belarus and Russia.
So look at countries nearby thay weren't politically alligned. Do I really have to mention the Cuban missile crisis? 
If Russia was in America's shoes they would have invaded Cuba and russified it. America were and still are ****s for Cuba however. Seems like your best argument to defend Russia is but America do it too. Two wrongs don't make a right. Russia is wrong, Ukraine is right.
And not just Cuba( which if you remember almost brought the world to a Nuclear War)

My argument is not defending Russia. My argument is saying America Were meddling in Ukraine politics pre invasion. They have a form for it. Did it justify the invasion No. But to absolve America( with their track record) of all responsiblity is wrong. 
It's not an argument that justifies Russia's invasion just like Russian meddling in Cuba doesn't justify the 60 year embargo. 

I'm not saying America or Russia is better I'm simply looking at this from a Ukraine Vs Russia Point of view. Likewise with Cuba I look at it from a US Vs Cuba. 

Russia and America meddle in almost any country of significance where they can. This will never justify the third party country being invaded. 
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Robbie Keane
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Points: 32815 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2024 at 5:30pm
Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Originally posted by Paulie Paulie wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Need Rocky to fight in Moscow this Christmas and end this conflict


On a side note a mate of mine who is about 15 yrs older than me said he saw Rocky IV in Dublin in the cinema when it was released (think it was the Adelphi in Middle Abbey Street) and when Rocky made his speech at the end there was a round of applause in the cinemaLOL


I saw this as a kid in the Ambassador. I can confirm that it got a standing ovation. Great movie


Yep, when I saw it in the Ambassador you literally had a cinema full of 13/14 year old lads standing on the seats chanting "ROCKY! ROCKY! ROCKY!" at the end. And I must admit I was party to that chanting. Simpler times

A similar thing happened in a cinema in Dundalk for
The Michael Collins movie when I went to see it.  
AKA pedantic kunt
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Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


Joined: 09 Apr 2011
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Points: 3467 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OohAah... Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Apr 2024 at 5:30pm
Originally posted by eireland eireland wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by eireland eireland wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by eireland eireland wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by eireland eireland wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Net effect is the same lads. and you cant argue that. Pick away at the use of the word democracy all you want. 2 proftable military machines where the electorate has no say
How is it the same? Has American invaded Mexico or Canada yet? That would be an equal bet result? Is president Bush ruling with an iron fist after 20 years in power and no end in sight?
Do you really want to go down the route of talking about Central and south American countries who' had political differemce of opinion  with the US
You've gone further south though. Like I said get back to me when the US Invades Canada or Mexico like Putin I'm Ukraine.
But why would they? They are politically  aligned. A bit like Belarus and Russia.
So look at countries nearby thay weren't politically alligned. Do I really have to mention the Cuban missile crisis? 
If Russia was in America's shoes they would have invaded Cuba and russified it. America were and still are ****s for Cuba however. Seems like your best argument to defend Russia is but America do it too. Two wrongs don't make a right. Russia is wrong, Ukraine is right.
And not just Cuba( which if you remember almost brought the world to a Nuclear War)

My argument is not defending Russia. My argument is saying America Were meddling in Ukraine politics pre invasion. They have a form for it. Did it justify the invasion No. But to absolve America( with their track record) of all responsiblity is wrong. 
It's not an argument that justifies Russia's invasion just like Russian meddling in Cuba doesn't justify the 60 year embargo. 

I'm not saying America or Russia is better I'm simply looking at this from a Ukraine Vs Russia Point of view. Likewise with Cuba I look at it from a US Vs Cuba. 

Russia and America meddle in almost any country of significance where they can. This will never justify the third party country being invaded. 

And Im not trying to justify it either. I just dont think We can absolve US interference pre invasion. And the link shows the countries the meddling went on in. Including full on Invasions... they too have form

We can still beg to differ on what We believe though. Thats fine
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