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Rocco Vata
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Liam Brady
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Points: 2093 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fozz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 2:43pm
Euros Elite phase matches coming up for Rocco in March and then possibly finals in the Summer, all going very well.
He'll be 18 in April and a promotion to the 21's again they play serious matches again in the Autumn would not be out of the question.
Still only 17 but seems to have been around a while now...exciting talent.
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Points: 33738 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 4:29pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Tony Ralston, Stephen Welsh another 2 players who have come through the system in the last couple of years.

Dembele is no loss and he was right to leave as he was not going to play for Celtic as he was not good enough. it will be interesting to see how his career develops.

How many 16/17 year olds are playing for other clubs?

It simply comes down to being good enough. 



Ralston has lost his place despite having an excellent season last year (as is the Celtic way, just keep signing more players which pushes the academy players down). Welsh is another who is likely on his way out of the club, did alright when he got a chance but was quickly thrown on the scrapheap when the shiny new signings were made. 

Celtic's current gameplan is to sign in quantity and hope a couple come good, they've no interest whatsoever in development.

And the goal posts move, again and again.

Celtic are no different from any other club, if they can produce players who can play in the first team they will save millions of pounds. 
In some cases good players come through and make it and in most cases some don't. It really is that simple.

How many league games will Doak play for Liverpool?




Who's moving anything? The reality is that Celtic's record in actually nurturing young talent rather than just churning through it is appaling.

Every Irish player who has went there has been worse the move - the ones who were clearly never good enough in the first place (ie Afolabi and Coffey) have proven that point subsequent to moving on in their career trajectories. The ones who actually had talent and could have been far better managed by Celtic (ie Okoflex, Connell, and O'Connor) have also proved as much after leaving. O'Connor is a linchpin for Tranmere and has consistently looked like a player with the ability to play at a higher level; Connell has had a very good start to his Barnsley career; and Okoflex almost immediately broke into West Ham's first team squad and is now making regular appearances off the bench for Swansea. Celtic did absolutely nothing to maximise the potential of these players, they basically left them to p*ss around in the reserves and just hope that they would magically become first teamers.

It's Celtic's fault Afolabi and Coffey turned out to be mediocre players?

Lee O'Connor only played for Celtic for 3 months, he signed and then got loaned out. He was not good enough for Celtic, but used his loan period wisely and will carve out a good career for himself at a lower level and good luck to him.

I agree with Connell that he never really got an opportunity, but the reality is that there was a lot of players ahead of him.

Okoflex played and was nowhere near good enough - it will be interesting to see how he develops. But I don't think he was any loss from what I saw.

I've listed 4 random players above who Celtic developed through the ranks and still continue to play, and again if your good enough you will play.

I don't think Celtic are doing anything differently than any other club to be honest.
It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me,
He wouldn't set me free,
So he kept me soul for ransom.
na na na na na na na na na
na na na na na na na na.
I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to
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Jack Charlton
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Points: 8821 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 5:08pm
Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Tony Ralston, Stephen Welsh another 2 players who have come through the system in the last couple of years.

Dembele is no loss and he was right to leave as he was not going to play for Celtic as he was not good enough. it will be interesting to see how his career develops.

How many 16/17 year olds are playing for other clubs?

It simply comes down to being good enough. 



Ralston has lost his place despite having an excellent season last year (as is the Celtic way, just keep signing more players which pushes the academy players down). Welsh is another who is likely on his way out of the club, did alright when he got a chance but was quickly thrown on the scrapheap when the shiny new signings were made. 

Celtic's current gameplan is to sign in quantity and hope a couple come good, they've no interest whatsoever in development.

And the goal posts move, again and again.

Celtic are no different from any other club, if they can produce players who can play in the first team they will save millions of pounds. 
In some cases good players come through and make it and in most cases some don't. It really is that simple.

How many league games will Doak play for Liverpool?




Who's moving anything? The reality is that Celtic's record in actually nurturing young talent rather than just churning through it is appaling.

Every Irish player who has went there has been worse the move - the ones who were clearly never good enough in the first place (ie Afolabi and Coffey) have proven that point subsequent to moving on in their career trajectories. The ones who actually had talent and could have been far better managed by Celtic (ie Okoflex, Connell, and O'Connor) have also proved as much after leaving. O'Connor is a linchpin for Tranmere and has consistently looked like a player with the ability to play at a higher level; Connell has had a very good start to his Barnsley career; and Okoflex almost immediately broke into West Ham's first team squad and is now making regular appearances off the bench for Swansea. Celtic did absolutely nothing to maximise the potential of these players, they basically left them to p*ss around in the reserves and just hope that they would magically become first teamers.

It's Celtic's fault Afolabi and Coffey turned out to be mediocre players?

Lee O'Connor only played for Celtic for 3 months, he signed and then got loaned out. He was not good enough for Celtic, but used his loan period wisely and will carve out a good career for himself at a lower level and good luck to him.

I agree with Connell that he never really got an opportunity, but the reality is that there was a lot of players ahead of him.

Okoflex played and was nowhere near good enough - it will be interesting to see how he develops. But I don't think he was any loss from what I saw.

I've listed 4 random players above who Celtic developed through the ranks and still continue to play, and again if your good enough you will play.

I don't think Celtic are doing anything differently than any other club to be honest.



Your very first sentence shows you never even bothered to read the post - I explicitly stated that Afolabi and Coffey were never going to be good enough and that their subsequent moves have borne this out.

It was the others mentioned who all have legitimate potential that was completely squandered by Celtic's meat-grinder approach to player signings.
We're decent enough..
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Meat grinder approach ffs LOL
It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me,
He wouldn't set me free,
So he kept me soul for ransom.
na na na na na na na na na
na na na na na na na na.
I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to
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Vata scores today for Celtic B in a 5-2 win over Rangers B. Charlie McCann contributes a penalty for Rangers B cancelled out by an own goal at the other end.
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Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Originally posted by ProudIrish ProudIrish wrote:

in hope he is set on Ireland and I would hate to see him revert to the jocks 


Surely if he had any interest in Scotland, the country he was born and raised in then he'd have chosen them rather than Ireland to play with.

Scotland have never contacted them according to Vata's father.
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Found this quite funny. Rocco giving a bit to Charlie McCann. 
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Republic of Ireland youth star Rocco Vata is showing "really good promise" at Celtic, according to the club's captain Callum McGregor. The 17-year-old son of ex-Hoops star Rudi Vata had been ...
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Has to start against France. 
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Mentions an ankle injury...wonder will he be fit for the 19s matches next month?
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Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Has to start against France. 

Alongside Dan Crowley.
It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me,
He wouldn't set me free,
So he kept me soul for ransom.
na na na na na na na na na
na na na na na na na na.
I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to
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Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Has to start against France. 

Alongside Dan Crowley.
A serious team that with Ryan Nolan anchoring the back line!

In terms of Vata, it does seem to feel like Celtic do rate him so maybe he will get more of a look in than the likes of Luca Connell etc. 
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If he's an Irishman doing well at Celtic then there's definitely something to to be excited about 
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He could be the next Anthony Stokes.
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This lad should genuinely be fast tracked to senior side.
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Originally posted by TheNumber6 TheNumber6 wrote:

This lad should genuinely be fast tracked to senior side.

Ah come on, he looks talented, but he's 17 and has played one senior game of football. 
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Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by TheNumber6 TheNumber6 wrote:

This lad should genuinely be fast tracked to senior side.

Ah come on, he looks talented, but he's 17 and has played one senior game of football. 

Of course.  Hourihane, Daryl Horgan and CJ Hamilton should be in ahead of him.

If Vata's talented enough, or looks like he soon will be talented enough, he's one they could make space for, in a developmental capacity at least.

We shouldn't have to wait for a lad to make 20 first-team appearances like Joe Hodge or Will Smallbone before they're even considered, if they look like they have the talent. 
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Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by TheNumber6 TheNumber6 wrote:

This lad should genuinely be fast tracked to senior side.

Ah come on, he looks talented, but he's 17 and has played one senior game of football. 

Of course.  Hourihane, Daryl Horgan and CJ Hamilton should be in ahead of him.

If Vata's talented enough, or looks like he soon will be talented enough, he's one they could make space for, in a developmental capacity at least.

We shouldn't have to wait for a lad to make 20 first-team appearances like Joe Hodge or Will Smallbone before they're even considered, if they look like they have the talent. 

Firstly, none of the three listed should be in the Irish squad and I dont see anybody on here clamouring for their inclusion. 

Vata has made one brief sub app for Celtic in the SPL. He looks very good playing for Celtic's B Team in the Scottish Lowland League and at U17 level internationally, he has played just twice for our U19 team. The next step (if his underage coaches consider him good enough) would be promotion to the U21s for their next campaign which begins in September. Meantime he has the U19 games in March and hopefully the U19 Euros in June to concentrate on.

I havent seen enough of him to know whether or not he is an exceptional talent, he is certainly getting rave reviews playing in what is effectively a pub league. Until he actually plays some form of senior football, there is absolutely no way he should even be considered for a full Irish squad. If, hopefully when, he breaks into Celtic's first team, then he can put himself into contention.
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