You Boys in Green Homepage YBIG Shop
Forum Home Forum Home : Other Forums : Whatever!
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - The 8th - Repealed!
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

The 8th - Repealed!

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 2728293031 42>
Poll Question: Will you vote to Repeal the 8th amendment?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
74 [64.35%]
41 [35.65%]
You can not vote in this poll

Author
Message
Gabrieléire View Drop Down
Davey Langan
Davey Langan
Avatar

Joined: 22 Jul 2016
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 758
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gabrieléire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 1:15am
hope tomorrow goes the way it should, vote yes. 

Edited by Gabrieléire - 24 May 2018 at 1:15am
Back to Top
benboview View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
Kevin Kilbane
Avatar

Joined: 16 Nov 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 326
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benboview Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 1:55am
Fundamental rights belong in the constitution, not in the hands of the sell outs from FF & FG. 
Back to Top
sid waddell View Drop Down
Roy Keane
Roy Keane

On a dark desert highway

Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12173
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 2:06am
Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

This is indepth analysis of the Referendum It is pure analysis of all arguments. The author is a No voter but the author is advocating ammending the current Article in the constitution as opposed to ridding of it. Its an informative piece regardless of which voting intention someone has.



Impossible to do that - three former attorney generals (I refuse to say attorneys general as it really irks me even though it may be technically correct) have said it's impossible and any basic reading of the wording by a lay person shows it's impossible to amend it.

It needs to be OBLITERATED. 

I don't particularly fancy to living in a theocracy where:
12 year old rape victims are forced to give birth against their will
or where pregnant women who have cancer have to leave the state to get treatment
or where women who have a pregnancy involving a fatal foetal abnormality are treated as a mere vessel, thanks very much. 

You can shove your 8th Amendment up your arse.


Back to Top
Fly View Drop Down
Joe Lapira
Joe Lapira


Joined: 15 Nov 2017
Status: Offline
Points: 3
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 2:34am
Here's my take on it (debut post btw) -

The abortion debate is essentially a moral and values driven issue, and I don’t find it a particularly complex or difficult one. I’ll preface my contribution by stating my own position. I would, on balance and with a heavy heart, allow the option of abortion for the well known exceptions. But - let’s be very clear - that is not what is proposed to replace the current provision, and I would not allow exceptions to override all else for a general rule. 

At the core of this debate is the value of human life itself, and a person’s arbitrary decision that it is inconvenient to have a child does not trump the independent right to life of the unborn. Their level of personal discomfort with having a child has no impact morally on the definition of whether that person is a life or not. 

The idea that the definition and value of human life can be dependent on an individual’s emotional state or convenience is one of grave significance. Either human life has intrinsic value or it doesn’t and anytime you draw any line other than the conception of the child, you end up drawing a false line that can also be applied to adults. Bluntly, the suggestion that human beings have the subjective capacity to define as life that which they wish to preserve is a dangerous one with consequences for society as a whole. 

Such statements can still appear abstract to some. Let me present the following case:

I have come to regard the liberalisation of abortion laws as thee most significant act in rubber stamping the decline of a nation as we know it, or knew it. It's my strong contention that when a society deviates from the established view regarding the sanctity of life, or, in more secular terms, a simple objective definition to life, then society will also deviate from other established values as a logical consequence. The implication is not only glaringly obvious but is borne out by the demographic statistics for other nations. 

Take our nearest neighbour as an example. In Britain the marriage rate has tumbled and the divorce rate has risen since the late ‘60s and early '70s. Today, the percentage of marriages that end in divorce stands at 42%. The number of children born out of marriage has dramatically increased, to a point where it is nearly level pegging with its wedded counterpoint. Over 20% of all pregnancies end in abortion. This is despite the reasons for the introduction of the 1967 Abortion Act running along similar lines to those espoused for the repeal of the 8th amendment. These statistics find parallel across the ‘Western World’ with the average divorce rate in the EU currently standing at 44%, and America at just over 50%. 

However, Ireland’s divorce rate is still remarkably low at 12-13%, despite almost 25 years since the divorce referendum. It is also of interest to note that Ireland also has the highest natural birth rate in the EU; the only country which comes close to replenishing it’s own population (the necessary 2.1 figure) without the need for immigration.

Why the difference? As religion and faith in general have declined across the Western World, the current ‘rights’ based progressive ethos has emerged to try and fill the gap. It has helped to bring many undoubted advancements, the emancipation of gay people being the most obvious one. However, this ethos has a very serious flaw. Together with the economic and legal changes that have run alongside and been spurred by it, it has fostered a culture of entitlement. In other words, an increasing mentality of self-involvement, self-interest and narcissism. This is reflected in the decline of the family and the collapse of the birth rate. The other Western nations have been in decline, anthropologically speaking, for some time now. 

The decline of the family heralds the growth of the state. The ever expanding state brings ever increasing debt. The low birth rate together with increasing life expectancy greatly enhances the need for immigration; and the demographic & cultural change that results from that leads to the kind of stark political changes we have seen across Europe and America in recent times. These societies lack the same cohesion they once had and have become more fractured. It's for this reason that I'd counsel against this glee, for want of a better word, regarding the decline of the Catholic church and, in more general terms, the decline of religion and faith. As Edmund Burke said - “Society is indeed a contract. It is a partnership . . . not only between those who are living, but between those who are living, those who are dead, and those who are to be born.”

It’s almost painful to see how some people are so willing to throw out the best of what has gone before. I hate the smug and glib inferences that the morality and values of our parents, grandparents and beyond, was somehow inferior in comparison to that of the current enlightened, more compassionate and ‘modern’ populace. This is the same Enlightened generation that is increasingly content to subcontract the care of children, the elderly, the vulnerable and the dependent out to others. To have seen the effects of large scale immigration elsewhere, where immigrants allow the wealthy and middle classes amongst the ‘natives’ to live in the style they have grown accustomed to, whilst those ‘natives’ at the bottom who aren’t so entitled and are willing to do the more menial work can no longer compete with the cheaper imported labour. Then of course, the demographics start to change, the culture starts to change, and their country doesn’t feel like it used to anymore and the immigrants, the majority of whom only want to better their own lives and that of their family, suddenly become unwelcome. 

But hey….we’re ‘modern’!

The central point is that morality and value systems are very important and there are consequences for society when they change. The insidious side of the rights based ethos is demonstrated best by the abortion debate. We live in an age where all forms of contraceptives, from condoms to the morning after pill, are widely and virtually freely available and sex education is, to the best of my knowledge, mandatory in schools. Despite this, it is claimed that abortion is an urgent requirement. With such facilities and such information flow so readily available, can the “right to choose” not be properly located in the choice to use effective contraception; or in adoption; or, and I don’t mean to be prudish, in abstinence?

Indeed it is proposed by many that abortion is akin to a human right. This suggestion is delusional and dangerously absurd. For abortion to be a human right, one has to disengage the most fundamental human right of all – the right to life – and to dehumanise the defenceless human in utero in preference to the freedom of choice of the parent or parents. Moreover, if the most important of all the human rights is so easily upended, what the fate of the subsequent human rights, so hard-earned over the last 70 years. 

It is not rights that make the character, it’s responsibility, and one of the hallmarks of a cohesive society is the correct balance between human rights and human responsibilities. The granting of a right to abort the unborn, outside of the exceptions, represents a complete negation of responsibility. While it may be argued that this assertion is too judgemental in any individual circumstances, the removal of the right to life of the unborn to enable others to exercise a lesser right of choice, will also remove society’s obligations of responsibility.

Therefore, we now stand atop the slippery slope. The slope other nations have already travelled down!
Back to Top
cardwizzard View Drop Down
Liam Brady
Liam Brady


Joined: 05 Feb 2013
Location: Meath
Status: Offline
Points: 1023
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cardwizzard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 7:34am
Interesting first post LOL

Head bangers trolling the internet and putting up this nonsense everywhere... 
Back to Top
the_walls View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton
Avatar
6 in a row, alive alive oh..

Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Location: Walkinstown
Status: Offline
Points: 5182
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_walls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 8:22am
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

This is indepth analysis of the Referendum It is pure analysis of all arguments. The author is a No voter but the author is advocating ammending the current Article in the constitution as opposed to ridding of it. Its an informative piece regardless of which voting intention someone has.



Impossible to do that - three former attorney generals (I refuse to say attorneys general as it really irks me even though it may be technically correct) have said it's impossible and any basic reading of the wording by a lay person shows it's impossible to amend it.

It needs to be OBLITERATED. 

I don't particularly fancy to living in a theocracy where:
12 year old rape victims are forced to give birth against their will
or where pregnant women who have cancer have to leave the state to get treatment
or where women who have a pregnancy involving a fatal foetal abnormality are treated as a mere vessel, thanks very much. 

You can shove your 8th Amendment up your arse.



I can't understand how it would be impossible for the people to change the wording of the 8th via a referendum. Do you have a link to this? I'm not doubting you, I would just like to understand the reasoning behind their opinion. 
Back to Top
bhob View Drop Down
Roy Keane
Roy Keane

YBIGs Donald Trump

Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 10470
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bhob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 8:28am
Originally posted by cardwizzard cardwizzard wrote:

Interesting first post LOL

Head bangers trolling the internet and putting up this nonsense everywhere... 
 
Bots copying and pasting stuff all over internet forums.
 
Sure it's not even in the normal font of the forum so it sticks out like a sore thumb
Back to Top
ringerbell View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton
Avatar

Joined: 12 Nov 2009
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 8013
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ringerbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 8:44am
Originally posted by Fly Fly wrote:

Here's my take on it (debut post btw) -

The abortion debate is essentially a moral and values driven issue, and I don’t find it a particularly complex or difficult one. I’ll preface my contribution by stating my own position. I would, on balance and with a heavy heart, allow the option of abortion for the well known exceptions. But - let’s be very clear - that is not what is proposed to replace the current provision, and I would not allow exceptions to override all else for a general rule. 

At the core of this debate is the value of human life itself, and a person’s arbitrary decision that it is inconvenient to have a child does not trump the independent right to life of the unborn. Their level of personal discomfort with having a child has no impact morally on the definition of whether that person is a life or not. 

The idea that the definition and value of human life can be dependent on an individual’s emotional state or convenience is one of grave significance. Either human life has intrinsic value or it doesn’t and anytime you draw any line other than the conception of the child, you end up drawing a false line that can also be applied to adults. Bluntly, the suggestion that human beings have the subjective capacity to define as life that which they wish to preserve is a dangerous one with consequences for society as a whole. 

Such statements can still appear abstract to some. Let me present the following case:

I have come to regard the liberalisation of abortion laws as thee most significant act in rubber stamping the decline of a nation as we know it, or knew it. It's my strong contention that when a society deviates from the established view regarding the sanctity of life, or, in more secular terms, a simple objective definition to life, then society will also deviate from other established values as a logical consequence. The implication is not only glaringly obvious but is borne out by the demographic statistics for other nations. 

Take our nearest neighbour as an example. In Britain the marriage rate has tumbled and the divorce rate has risen since the late ‘60s and early '70s. Today, the percentage of marriages that end in divorce stands at 42%. The number of children born out of marriage has dramatically increased, to a point where it is nearly level pegging with its wedded counterpoint. Over 20% of all pregnancies end in abortion. This is despite the reasons for the introduction of the 1967 Abortion Act running along similar lines to those espoused for the repeal of the 8th amendment. These statistics find parallel across the ‘Western World’ with the average divorce rate in the EU currently standing at 44%, and America at just over 50%. 

However, Ireland’s divorce rate is still remarkably low at 12-13%, despite almost 25 years since the divorce referendum. It is also of interest to note that Ireland also has the highest natural birth rate in the EU; the only country which comes close to replenishing it’s own population (the necessary 2.1 figure) without the need for immigration.

Why the difference? As religion and faith in general have declined across the Western World, the current ‘rights’ based progressive ethos has emerged to try and fill the gap. It has helped to bring many undoubted advancements, the emancipation of gay people being the most obvious one. However, this ethos has a very serious flaw. Together with the economic and legal changes that have run alongside and been spurred by it, it has fostered a culture of entitlement. In other words, an increasing mentality of self-involvement, self-interest and narcissism. This is reflected in the decline of the family and the collapse of the birth rate. The other Western nations have been in decline, anthropologically speaking, for some time now. 

The decline of the family heralds the growth of the state. The ever expanding state brings ever increasing debt. The low birth rate together with increasing life expectancy greatly enhances the need for immigration; and the demographic & cultural change that results from that leads to the kind of stark political changes we have seen across Europe and America in recent times. These societies lack the same cohesion they once had and have become more fractured. It's for this reason that I'd counsel against this glee, for want of a better word, regarding the decline of the Catholic church and, in more general terms, the decline of religion and faith. As Edmund Burke said - “Society is indeed a contract. It is a partnership . . . not only between those who are living, but between those who are living, those who are dead, and those who are to be born.”

It’s almost painful to see how some people are so willing to throw out the best of what has gone before. I hate the smug and glib inferences that the morality and values of our parents, grandparents and beyond, was somehow inferior in comparison to that of the current enlightened, more compassionate and ‘modern’ populace. This is the same Enlightened generation that is increasingly content to subcontract the care of children, the elderly, the vulnerable and the dependent out to others. To have seen the effects of large scale immigration elsewhere, where immigrants allow the wealthy and middle classes amongst the ‘natives’ to live in the style they have grown accustomed to, whilst those ‘natives’ at the bottom who aren’t so entitled and are willing to do the more menial work can no longer compete with the cheaper imported labour. Then of course, the demographics start to change, the culture starts to change, and their country doesn’t feel like it used to anymore and the immigrants, the majority of whom only want to better their own lives and that of their family, suddenly become unwelcome. 

But hey….we’re ‘modern’!

The central point is that morality and value systems are very important and there are consequences for society when they change. The insidious side of the rights based ethos is demonstrated best by the abortion debate. We live in an age where all forms of contraceptives, from condoms to the morning after pill, are widely and virtually freely available and sex education is, to the best of my knowledge, mandatory in schools. Despite this, it is claimed that abortion is an urgent requirement. With such facilities and such information flow so readily available, can the “right to choose” not be properly located in the choice to use effective contraception; or in adoption; or, and I don’t mean to be prudish, in abstinence?

Indeed it is proposed by many that abortion is akin to a human right. This suggestion is delusional and dangerously absurd. For abortion to be a human right, one has to disengage the most fundamental human right of all – the right to life – and to dehumanise the defenceless human in utero in preference to the freedom of choice of the parent or parents. Moreover, if the most important of all the human rights is so easily upended, what the fate of the subsequent human rights, so hard-earned over the last 70 years. 

It is not rights that make the character, it’s responsibility, and one of the hallmarks of a cohesive society is the correct balance between human rights and human responsibilities. The granting of a right to abort the unborn, outside of the exceptions, represents a complete negation of responsibility. While it may be argued that this assertion is too judgemental in any individual circumstances, the removal of the right to life of the unborn to enable others to exercise a lesser right of choice, will also remove society’s obligations of responsibility.

Therefore, we now stand atop the slippery slope. The slope other nations have already travelled down!

Well that's a few minutes of my life im not going to get back after reading all this Disapprove

Interesting 1st post btw would be interested to know what way you think we should lineup in Paris on Monday Wink
the closest i will ever come to playing for ireland https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0_7w4JyvI4
Back to Top
lassassinblanc View Drop Down
Paul McGrath
Paul McGrath
Avatar
Cheese, it’s not just for eating

Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Location: Clairefontaine
Status: Offline
Points: 16468
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lassassinblanc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 8:55am
Haven't really listened to much of the goings on or debates in regards to the Referendum but watched Six one news yesterday and Shanley interviewed (interrogated) both sides and again the Yes campaigner came out with a lot more dignity then the No side did.

For example Yes campaigner gave clear and concise answers to every question with facts and figures to back up his claims, while the your wan from the no side basically sprouted that everything the yes side had said was nonsense with no facts herself.

She also sidetracked and had to be asked 4 times by Shanley was the No campaigns view was on on a woman who had been raped having to give birth. Didn't actually give an actual answer to this either.

I was already voting Yes but after viewing that last night it is now set in stone

Image result for wrestler yes gif
Back to Top
the_walls View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton
Avatar
6 in a row, alive alive oh..

Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Location: Walkinstown
Status: Offline
Points: 5182
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_walls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 9:10am
Originally posted by lassassinblanc lassassinblanc wrote:

Haven't really listened to much of the goings on or debates in regards to the Referendum but watched Six one news yesterday and Shanley interviewed (interrogated) both sides and again the Yes campaigner came out with a lot more dignity then the No side did.

For example Yes campaigner gave clear and concise answers to every question with facts and figures to back up his claims, while the your wan from the no side basically sprouted that everything the yes side had said was nonsense with no facts herself.

She also sidetracked and had to be asked 4 times by Shanley was the No campaigns view was on on a woman who had been raped having to give birth. Didn't actually give an actual answer to this either.

I was already voting Yes but after viewing that last night it is now set in stone

Image result for wrestler yes gif

To be fair there is no one answer to that question for the entire No side. Some on the No side would think abortion should be permitted in those circumstances. 
Back to Top
irishmufc View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
I love Vulvas

Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Location: Dublin
Status: Offline
Points: 25085
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 9:17am
One of the lads I know is voting no and his highly opiniated girlfriend called him a prehistoric monster LOL


Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
Back to Top
Lenny82 View Drop Down
Liam Brady
Liam Brady


Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 2914
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lenny82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 9:19am
I haven't seen one NO campaigner answer that question on a woman who had been raped. They fluff about and talk about offering help etc. Witho ut giving a straight answer. The majority obviously believe that there should be zero grounds for a termination regardless of the circumstances and their suggestions to re-word or amend the 8th, is all a stall tactic as they had no interest in engaging or putting forward suggested wording or proposals prior to it being drafted.

If this is a NO I will be appalled and you won't hear a dickie Bird from any of the NO side on re-wording and going again with a 2nd referendum nor will you see any change to the care, or lack there of, offered to woman forced to have babies in terrible situations be it health or economic.
Back to Top
the_walls View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton
Avatar
6 in a row, alive alive oh..

Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Location: Walkinstown
Status: Offline
Points: 5182
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_walls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 9:20am
Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

One of the lads I know is voting no and his highly opiniated girlfriend called him a prehistoric monster LOL



Why is she still with him in that case LOLLOL
Back to Top
Newryrep View Drop Down
Paul McGrath
Paul McGrath
Avatar
Just can't get enough of lists

Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 15256
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Newryrep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 9:34am
Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

One of the lads I know is voting no and his highly opiniated girlfriend called him a prehistoric monster LOL



There’s your chance now muffSmile
'Irish' Songs for an Irish team - no SPL EPL generic sh*te
Richard Dunne - 6th Sept 11 - best marshalling of a defence in Moscow since General Zukov Russia V Germany 1941
Back to Top
GB 1HughJarse View Drop Down
Liam Brady
Liam Brady
Avatar

Joined: 03 Sep 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 2091
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GB 1HughJarse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 9:35am
Originally posted by Fly Fly wrote:

[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]Here's my take on it (debut post btw) -</span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]
</span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]The abortion debate is essentially a moral and values driven issue, and I don’t find it a particularly complex or difficult one. I’ll preface my contribution by stating my own position. I would, on balance and with a heavy heart, allow the option of abortion for the well known exceptions. But - let’s be very clear - that is not what is proposed to replace the current provision, and I would not allow exceptions to override all else for a general rule. </span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]
</span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]At the core of this debate is the value of human life itself, and a person’s arbitrary decision that it is inconvenient to have a child does not trump the independent right to life of the unborn. Their level of personal discomfort with having a child has no impact morally on the definition of whether that person is a life or not. </span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]
</span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]The idea that the definition and value of human life can be dependent on an individual’s emotional state or convenience is one of grave significance. Either human life has intrinsic value or it doesn’t and anytime you draw any line other than the conception of the child, you end up drawing a false line that can also be applied to adults. Bluntly, the suggestion that human beings have the subjective capacity to define as life that which they wish to preserve is a dangerous one with consequences for society as a whole. </span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]
</span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]Such statements can still appear abstract to some. Let me present the following case:</span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]
</span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]I have come to regard the liberalisation of abortion laws as thee most significant act in rubber stamping the decline of a nation as we know it, or knew it. It's my strong contention that when a society deviates from the established view regarding the sanctity of life, or, in more secular terms, a simple objective definition to life, then society will also deviate from other established values as a logical consequence. The implication is not only glaringly obvious but is borne out by the demographic statistics for other nations. </span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]
</span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]Take our nearest neighbour as an example. In Britain the marriage rate has tumbled and the divorce rate has risen since the late ‘60s and early '70s. Today, the percentage of marriages that end in divorce stands at 42%. The number of children born out of marriage has dramatically increased, to a point where it is nearly level pegging with its wedded counterpoint. Over 20% of all pregnancies end in abortion. This is despite the reasons for the introduction of the 1967 Abortion Act running along similar lines to those espoused for the repeal of the 8th amendment. These statistics find parallel across the ‘Western World’ with the average divorce rate in the EU currently standing at 44%, and America at just over 50%. </span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]
</span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]However, Ireland’s divorce rate is still remarkably low at 12-13%, despite almost 25 years since the divorce referendum. It is also of interest to note that Ireland also has the highest natural birth rate in the EU; the only country which comes close to replenishing it’s own population (the necessary 2.1 figure) without the need for immigration.</span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]
</span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]Why the difference? As religion and faith in general have declined across the Western World, the current ‘rights’ based progressive ethos has emerged to try and fill the gap. It has helped to bring many undoubted advancements, the emancipation of gay people being the most obvious one. However, this ethos has a very serious flaw. Together with the economic and legal changes that have run alongside and been spurred by it, it has fostered a culture of entitlement. In other words, an increasing mentality of self-involvement, self-interest and narcissism. This is reflected in the decline of the family and the collapse of the birth rate. The other Western nations have been in decline, anthropologically speaking, for some time now. </span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]
</span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]The decline of the family heralds the growth of the state. The ever expanding state brings ever increasing debt. The low birth rate together with increasing life expectancy greatly enhances the need for immigration; and the demographic & cultural change that results from that leads to the kind of stark political changes we have seen across Europe and America in recent times. These societies lack the same cohesion they once had and have become more fractured. It's for this reason that I'd counsel against this glee, for want of a better word, regarding the decline of the Catholic church and, in more general terms, the decline of religion and faith. As Edmund Burke said - “Society is indeed a contract. It is a partnership . . . not only between those who are living, but between those who are living, those who are dead, and those who are to be born.”</span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]
</span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]It’s almost painful to see how some people are so willing to throw out the best of what has gone before. I hate the smug and glib inferences that the morality and values of our parents, grandparents and beyond, was somehow inferior in comparison to that of the current enlightened, more compassionate and ‘modern’ populace. This is the same Enlightened generation that is increasingly content to subcontract the care of children, the elderly, the vulnerable and the dependent out to others. To have seen the effects of large scale immigration elsewhere, where immigrants allow the wealthy and middle classes amongst the ‘natives’ to live in the style they have grown accustomed to, whilst those ‘natives’ at the bottom who aren’t so entitled and are willing to do the more menial work can no longer compete with the cheaper imported labour. Then of course, the demographics start to change, the culture starts to change, and their country doesn’t feel like it used to anymore and the immigrants, the majority of whom only want to better their own lives and that of their family, suddenly become unwelcome. </span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]
</span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]But hey….we’re ‘modern’!</span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]
</span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]The central point is that morality and value systems are very important and there are consequences for society when they change. The insidious side of the rights based ethos is demonstrated best by the abortion debate. We live in an age where all forms of contraceptives, from condoms to the morning after pill, are widely and virtually freely available and sex education is, to the best of my knowledge, mandatory in schools. Despite this, it is claimed that abortion is an urgent requirement. With such facilities and such information flow so readily available, can the “right to choose” not be properly located in the choice to use effective contraception; or in adoption; or, and I don’t mean to be prudish, in abstinence?</span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]
</span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]Indeed it is proposed by many that abortion is akin to a human right. This suggestion is delusional and dangerously absurd. For abortion to be a human right, one has to disengage the most fundamental human right of all – the right to life – and to dehumanise the defenceless human in utero in preference to the freedom of choice of the parent or parents. Moreover, if the most important of all the human rights is so easily upended, what the fate of the subsequent human rights, so hard-earned over the last 70 years. </span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]
</span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]It is not rights that make the character, it’s responsibility, and one of the hallmarks of a cohesive society is the correct balance between human rights and human responsibilities. The granting of a right to abort the unborn, outside of the exceptions, represents a complete negation of responsibility. While it may be argued that this assertion is too judgemental in any individual circumstances, the removal of the right to life of the unborn to enable others to exercise a lesser right of choice, will also remove society’s obligations of responsibility.</span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]
</span>[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333" face="Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]<span style="font-size: 13px;]Therefore, we now stand atop the slippery slope. The slope other nations have already travelled down!</span>[/COLOR]

You don’t by any chance work in the Iona Institute, do you Fly?
Do you have a picture of John Charles McQuaid above your mantelpiece?
Back to Top
pre Madonna View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
I am MALDING

Joined: 30 Nov 2014
Location: Trumpton
Status: Offline
Points: 44659
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 9:48am
Just read the comments made by that vile Ronan Mullen. He is one depraved individual.
Back to Top
bhob View Drop Down
Roy Keane
Roy Keane

YBIGs Donald Trump

Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 10470
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bhob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 9:49am
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Just read the comments made by that vile Ronan Mullen. He is one depraved individual.
 
"you deserve love and respect despite what you have done" to the woman who had an abortion in the UK
 
What an utter ****bag he really is.
Back to Top
9fingers View Drop Down
Paul McGrath
Paul McGrath
Avatar
Ballymun Resident #MONKEANO

Joined: 30 Jan 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 16144
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 9fingers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 May 2018 at 9:56am
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Just read the comments made by that vile Ronan Mullen. He is one depraved individual.
Hideous human being, I think even the some the no side audience members were taken aback by some of his comments. 
Anyway fair play to him, he’ll definitely swing undecideds away from No 
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 2728293031 42>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.00
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.