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Over 30 - Any future?

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John Nice View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
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    Posted: 13 Sep 2021 at 3:32pm
Here's a team of lads currently 30 or over who are in contention for the next Irish squad. My question is this - Post WC22 qualification, should any of them be retained in the Euro 24 Qualification squad? Names and Ages when the Euro 24 finals kick off in June 2024 as follows:

1. Randolph 37
2. Coleman 35
3. Stevens 34
4. K. Long 34
5. C. Clark 34
6. J. Mc Carthy 33
7. H. Arter 34
8. C. Hourihane 33
9. J. Collins 33
10. S. Long 37
11. J. Mc Clean 35

IMO its hard to make a case for any of them to be considered post this campaign and certainly post the NL campaign (whiuch I think ends roughly this time next season). Having said that we have seen players in the past whose most significant contributions to the Irish cause have come in their 30s e.g. Wes, Daryl Murphy, Didzy. Thoughts?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeclanDaly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2021 at 3:44pm
I can easily see a future in which nobody but Coleman is playing in two years - at least in the prem/championship

If Coleman can continue to play I see him around the squad for years in some capacity. McClean is a physical freak so he may well go on for years, although not at international level
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2021 at 4:36pm
No doubt, Seamus has been a great servant, but he will be 33 in October. Tbf, we surprisingly dont have a lot of options coming through at right back, Doherty is 29, Christie 28 and after that we are hoping the likes of MacNamara at Millwall (22), Lee O'Connor 21 at Tranmere and/or Lyons at Bohs (21) progress significantly, so assuming he starts next season as first choice at Everton then he probably stays in the squad for the Nations league campaign, but by the time the Euro 24 qualifiers start in earnest (March 2023 I think), he will be 34 and 35 by the time they end. Ever since the leg break, he has struggled to maintain fitness for prolonged periods, so its hard to see him starting for Ireland at 35. Happy to be proven wrong on this one, but rb/rwb is a physically challenging position as opposed to say CB.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2021 at 4:53pm
It's all dependent on the player, some of those on the list have looked after their bodies, less injuries, less league games, so it's all down to form really. They're there until there's someone better, I wouldn't put them out to pasture just because of their birth cert.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Left foot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2021 at 4:56pm
Kenny should be looking to replace the older players with the new generation. (Even to be considered if they are unproven yet)

The difficulty for ireland is that we don't want to be in the same position we are in with forward players. We never looked to replace Walters, Shane Long or Mcclean up front because we were are thinking of the next game only. Player availability an issue too of course.

We now have a very inexperienced and untried front line with no competitive goals between them.

We do have players for midfield with Knight, molumby, Cullen etc that need games. Selecting Mccarthy, Brady hourihane etc is probably not forward thinking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2021 at 6:09pm
Italy are winning major tournaments with a couple of pensioners in defense!

It's up to the younger players to earn their way into the team.

Goran Pandev is still banging in the goals for North Macedonia at the tender age of 38.
     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevin100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2021 at 6:32pm
Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Here's a team of lads currently 30 or over who are in contention for the next Irish squad. My question is this - Post WC22 qualification, should any of them be retained in the Euro 24 Qualification squad? Names and Ages when the Euro 24 finals kick off in June 2024 as follows:

1. Randolph 37
2. Coleman 35
3. Stevens 34
4. K. Long 34
5. C. Clark 34
6. J. Mc Carthy 33
7. H. Arter 34
8. C. Hourihane 33
9. J. Collins 33
10. S. Long 37
11. J. Mc Clean 35

IMO its hard to make a case for any of them to be considered post this campaign and certainly post the NL campaign (whiuch I think ends roughly this time next season). Having said that we have seen players in the past whose most significant contributions to the Irish cause have come in their 30s e.g. Wes, Daryl Murphy, Didzy. Thoughts?
 

Coleman Collins and possibly Clark/Randolph aside (with a few injuries) aside the notion of seeing any of those players in the squad by March 2023 which is the start of the qualifiers is hideous to me and the latter two I would hope won't play for us again with the talent at goalkeeper/CB.

Doherty Duffy Egan Hendrick will all be potentially 30 by then and Robinson and Cullen will be 27 and 26. Kelleher and O'Shea will be 24. That's plenty experience per say. 

If Bagan keeps playing for Cardiff like he has done I would hope he starts getting very handy amongst the senior squad soon. Hopefully Scales might hit the ground running too at Celtic. Bagan is a lovely addition as we need fresh blood at LB Stevens and McClean are blatantly not suited to the way Kenny is trying to play and by that stage will be going backwards.

It's going to be fascinating to see by March 2023 what new faces will be in the squad. Coleman/Doherty are two decent RBs. McNamara Ebosele Kioso are all promising but aren't at the level of the two boys yet! 

Midfield Coventry Taylor Schmodics Doyle Hayes Knight Molumby Kilkenny Noss Johansson Smallbone you would hope will progress further by then and start leaving some of the above midfielders redundant. I particularly like Doyle Hayes he's under the radar compared to most of those but he really looks the part and most importantly perfect if your trying to pass the ball. Was missing for Hibs the weekend and they missed him badly.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fozz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2021 at 6:50pm
Can only pick Coleman out of that list as someone who could still be competing at a high-enough level to feature for us.
A couple of others may be still around as cover but the rest are either crocked (McCarthy) or past it (McClean, Hourihane, Arter, Long).

But these players need to be moved on by replacements, and some may well be around longer than we'd like due to a lack of pressure.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Cockade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2021 at 7:23pm
Robbie Brady will be 30 in a few months. If he can shake off the injury problems he cannot be written off. Latest rumours are linking him with Swansea, whose manager Russell Martin was Norwich captain when Robbie played for them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Left foot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2021 at 7:34pm
Originally posted by Green Cockade Green Cockade wrote:

Robbie Brady will be 30 in a few months. If he can shake off the injury problems he cannot be written off. Latest rumours are linking him with Swansea, whose manager Russell Martin was Norwich captain when Robbie played for them.

I totally agree, Brady has a bit of magic about him when he plays. Sadly however he's been in and out of injury for the best part of 5 years. 

Getting older doesn't improve prone to injury players. Same as mccarthy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2021 at 7:53pm
Brady at 29 falls into the group,just below those listed, as do Doherty, Hendrick, Horgan, Hogan and Duffy. Egan and Christie are 28, so these guys will be 32/31 when the Euros ko in 2024. For me Doherty, Duffy, Egan and Hendrick should absolutely be retained to provide that core of experience. Egan captain for me!

Horgan, Hogan and Christie are already on the periphery, we should move on from them unless they are doing sthing exceptional at club level. Christie might be OK as we don't have many rb options, particularly if Coleman retires. Brady, i'm on the fence, if he can find form and fitness then sure, but that's a big if. I certainly wouldn't be planning a team around him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bandwagon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2021 at 9:14pm
Probably just Coleman, Clark and Collins.

They all keep themselves in good shape and have been relatively injury free, Coleman and Clark will probably still be playing away at Everton and Newcastle until 2023 at the earliest anyway.

Collins would depend on how the younger lads progress for us but he will probably still be a Championship striker.

Brady, McCarthy and Randolph are all f**ked with injuries. Cant see any of them still playing by 2024.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Cockade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2021 at 9:57pm
Coleman looking as impressive as ever for Everton in tonight's 3-1 win over Burnley.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Brick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 2:11am
At 31, Ciaran Clark has been consigned to the scrapheap by Kenny. He was one of just three Irish to start in EPL at the weekend. We're excited about Omobamidele, proud of Coleman but totally ambivalent about Clark. Whatever about being in the team, he certainly deserved to be in the squad. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 9:04am
Agreed re Clark - should be in the squad especially if we continue to play 3 at the back (which I think we should) - Minimum of 5 actual CBs required in the squad - Duffy, Egan, Omabamidele, O'Shea (out for 6 months), N. Collins. Room for at least one more in the next couple of squads Clark and/or Lenihan at a minimum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote giveittochristie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 9:26am
Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Agreed re Clark - should be in the squad especially if we continue to play 3 at the back (which I think we should) - Minimum of 5 actual CBs required in the squad - Duffy, Egan, Omabamidele, O'Shea (out for 6 months), N. Collins. Room for at least one more in the next couple of squads Clark and/or Lenihan at a minimum.
I think Kenny saw Coleman and possibly Manning as being able to play there also, hence Clark missing out. Coleman didn’t work all that well at CB so he may revisit if Clark stays in the Newcastle team. I think he’s a bit unlucky we are overloaded in that position. So is  Lenihan who has 2 caps despite playing at a similar level to guys like Alan Browne who has close to 20 


Edited by giveittochristie - 14 Sep 2021 at 9:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 10:09am
Originally posted by giveittochristie giveittochristie wrote:

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Agreed re Clark - should be in the squad especially if we continue to play 3 at the back (which I think we should) - Minimum of 5 actual CBs required in the squad - Duffy, Egan, Omabamidele, O'Shea (out for 6 months), N. Collins. Room for at least one more in the next couple of squads Clark and/or Lenihan at a minimum.
I think Kenny saw Coleman and possibly Manning as being able to play there also, hence Clark missing out. Coleman didn’t work all that well at CB so he may revisit if Clark stays in the Newcastle team. I think he’s a bit unlucky we are overloaded in that position. So is  Lenihan who has 2 caps despite playing at a similar level to guys like Alan Browne who has close to 20 

I get that, but with O'Shea now out, I think he has to call up another CB (at least one). Manning has played less than a handful of games there and imo it doesnt suit Coleman at all, in fact Doherty is probably a better CB than Coleman, certainly better in the air. Portugal game was our best performance over the last 3 imo against a very good side. Both Coleman at RWB and Doherty at LWB played well in that game, Doherty in particular linked very well with Connolly down the LHS first half, so I would stick with those two in the wing back positions. Not sure re Scales ability to play CB but again he's been playing LB/LWB afaik this season. 

Agreed re Lenihan being unlucky considering he is club captain at Blackburn also. Omabamidele, Duffy, Egan are certs, Nathan Collins if he's fit will probably stay in (despite no ft football), but thats only 4. Clark and/or Lenihan have to be called up imo. Given the first game vs Qatar is a friendly, it might even be sensible to start one of them along with N. Collins in that game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Brick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2021 at 11:45am
There we go again - forcing logic on why Coleman and Doherty could be relocated from roles in which they excel. Manning into CB before an experienced 230-plus EPL CB like Clark? Or Lenihan - unluckly as he may be - who has never and is unlikely to ever play above Championship level? 

Kenny had a good night in Portugal but then quickly reverted to kind with the changes for Azerbaijan. He either disrespected the opposition or simply stuffed up. More likely both. There's more tactical nous in the AUL.



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