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MC Hammered View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MC Hammered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2020 at 12:23pm
Originally posted by drog addict drog addict wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by drog addict drog addict wrote:

wait till the full impact of brexit chips away at the north and see how that poll changes.
Identity doesn't depend on economics though. And for those who don't identify as either Unionist or Nationalist, changing state not a big deal for them. Which is to say, it would be a big deal for them and they're unlikely to want to jump into it unless they feel it's absolutely necessary because people tend towards inertia. What might make them feel it's absolutely necessary is open to debate but people have a way of normalising incompetent authoritarian governments to themselves.

What would change things is a massive, industrial strength tabloid and wider media campaign in favour of Irish unification, but no such media exists in the wee six.

People in north already see how much financially better we are down here. Ok we have our problems with housing and health care but our standard of living and average wage is much higher than the occupied 6. Besides  the unionist hardliners, the non knuckle dragger up there will go for the extra penny in his pocket before what colour flag he prefers. 

Going by that logic, would the average Joe Soap in the Republic vote for unification if they felt it would mean less money in his pocket? 
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Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drog addict Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2020 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by MC Hammered MC Hammered wrote:

Originally posted by drog addict drog addict wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by drog addict drog addict wrote:

wait till the full impact of brexit chips away at the north and see how that poll changes.
Identity doesn't depend on economics though. And for those who don't identify as either Unionist or Nationalist, changing state not a big deal for them. Which is to say, it would be a big deal for them and they're unlikely to want to jump into it unless they feel it's absolutely necessary because people tend towards inertia. What might make them feel it's absolutely necessary is open to debate but people have a way of normalising incompetent authoritarian governments to themselves.

What would change things is a massive, industrial strength tabloid and wider media campaign in favour of Irish unification, but no such media exists in the wee six.

People in north already see how much financially better we are down here. Ok we have our problems with housing and health care but our standard of living and average wage is much higher than the occupied 6. Besides  the unionist hardliners, the non knuckle dragger up there will go for the extra penny in his pocket before what colour flag he prefers. 

Going by that logic, would the average Joe Soap in the Republic vote for unification if they felt it would mean less money in his pocket? 

Good point. Not too sure. Depends how its sold to them. No doubt there would be help from the EU and the tans will have to help in other ways before they leave.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2020 at 3:46pm
There's a lot of partitionists down here along with a partitionist state broadcaster. Unfortunately, a lot of people in the 26 are probably lukewarm at best to the prospect of a United Ireland. 

Between partitionist apathy and Unionist hostility towards a United Ireland, I just can't see a United Ireland in the next 10/20 years as one or two have suggested on here,  irrespective of changing social and economic circumstances.   
A faith is something you die for, a doctrine is something you kill for - Tony Benn
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2020 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by MC Hammered MC Hammered wrote:

Originally posted by drog addict drog addict wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by drog addict drog addict wrote:

wait till the full impact of brexit chips away at the north and see how that poll changes.

Identity doesn't depend on economics though. And for those who don't identify as either Unionist or Nationalist, changing state not a big deal for them. Which is to say, it would be a big deal for them and they're unlikely to want to jump into it unless they feel it's absolutely necessary because people tend towards inertia. What might make them feel it's absolutely necessary is open to debate but people have a way of normalising incompetent authoritarian governments to themselves.

What would change things is a massive, industrial strength tabloid and wider media campaign in favour of Irish unification, but no such media exists in the wee six.


People in north already see how much financially better we are down here. Ok we have our problems with housing and health care but our standard of living and average wage is much higher than the occupied 6. Besides  the unionist hardliners, the non knuckle dragger up there will go for the extra penny in his pocket before what colour flag he prefers. 


Going by that logic, would the average Joe Soap in the Republic vote for unification if they felt it would mean less money in his pocket? 


No they wouldn't.
The vast vast majority are me feiners

Back to your original point - and I've heard this direct from soft Unionists.

No matter what, any sort of Unionist will never vote for a UI, end of story.

It will be the end of them as they see it.

     
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inlikeflynn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote inlikeflynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 2020 at 7:04pm
Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Originally posted by MC Hammered MC Hammered wrote:

Originally posted by drog addict drog addict wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by drog addict drog addict wrote:

wait till the full impact of brexit chips away at the north and see how that poll changes.

Identity doesn't depend on economics though. And for those who don't identify as either Unionist or Nationalist, changing state not a big deal for them. Which is to say, it would be a big deal for them and they're unlikely to want to jump into it unless they feel it's absolutely necessary because people tend towards inertia. What might make them feel it's absolutely necessary is open to debate but people have a way of normalising incompetent authoritarian governments to themselves.

What would change things is a massive, industrial strength tabloid and wider media campaign in favour of Irish unification, but no such media exists in the wee six.


People in north already see how much financially better we are down here. Ok we have our problems with housing and health care but our standard of living and average wage is much higher than the occupied 6. Besides  the unionist hardliners, the non knuckle dragger up there will go for the extra penny in his pocket before what colour flag he prefers. 


Going by that logic, would the average Joe Soap in the Republic vote for unification if they felt it would mean less money in his pocket? 


No they wouldn't.
The vast vast majority are me feiners

Back to your original point - and I've heard this direct from soft Unionists.

No matter what, any sort of Unionist will never vote for a UI, end of story.

It will be the end of them as they see it.


The tax burden is already massive in the south. I’m not sure people can take any more. I can understand someone having an aspirational desire to see a United Ireland, but being unwilling to pay for it. 

It will lead to a lot of resentment from those in the south who have to pay for it, and then from those in the north who see themselves as having less employment, poorer living standards etc. 

I think the UI in terms of a unified government for the island is an inevitability in my lifetime (43 yo). But I don’t think I’ll ever see a United Ireland in the social and economic context. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Huntacha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2020 at 6:32am
We've more immediate concerns in the 26 than trying to push through a UI within the next 10-15 years. Previously, I thought that a UI would happen within that time frame, but our social issues should be of a greater concern to our new government.

Would agree that one of the biggest obstacles would be the "southern" (me feiner) vote, and would have been critical of that in previous years. But given the housing/healthcare/homelessness issues we have, I don't think we can criticise any one until vast improvements have been made to these areas. 

Realism over idealism.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2020 at 8:37am
We have to plan for it now.
There is a majority that want it and will vote for it and of course Brexit changes everything.

There will always be a crisis and more immediate concens in the country, like any other country.

The government can't just keep kicking it down the road either.

Most of the myths will be dismissed, i.e. the cost to the tax payer etc..

If the leader of the UFF is willing to to the table to discuss it then there is no reasons why political leaders in the South can't do the same.



Edited by horsebox - 20 Feb 2020 at 8:40am
     
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The Huntacha View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Huntacha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2020 at 9:01am
Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

We have to plan for it now.
There is a majority that want it and will vote for it and of course Brexit changes everything.

There will always be a crisis and more immediate concens in the country, like any other country.

The government can't just keep kicking it down the road either.

Most of the myths will be dismissed, i.e. the cost to the tax payer etc..

If the leader of the UFF is willing to to the table to discuss it then there is no reasons why political leaders in the South can't do the same.


Can't disagree with the first point.
 

My point was more about the voters rather than the government. The more crises they see on a day-to-day basis being unresolved, the less likely they will be to vote for a UI. 


Edited by The Huntacha - 20 Feb 2020 at 9:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperDave84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2020 at 9:59am
If voters in Ireland are given a choice, they will vote for a UI. There is no prospect of NI voting for a United Ireland and the republic voting against it, none.

The fact is, it is for the people of the north to decide where they stand. If they vote for a UI, the Government of Ireland will be left with little choice but to deal with it. That won't come at a time of the choosing of the Government of Ireland either, albeit you'd imagine the secretary of state for NI in the UK would listen to what they had to say.

The recriminations if the republic voted against NI rejoining would be massive but, while I know there would be a small vote against it, every single party in this state would campaign in favour of it. There'll be a few against it, but it would be carried 80/20. There's no prospect of it failing. If the north were to schedule a vote on it, following an appropriate order by the secretary of state for NI, the government here would have no political choice but to schedule a similar referendum, probably on the same day, and it would pass easily. The power of the government here with regard to NI and a UI is very, very limited.

But anyway, I'm not sure it's going to happen soon, based on that 29% / 51% opinion poll from a few days back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2020 at 10:19am
     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martiponti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Feb 2020 at 12:50pm
It's not so long ago there was a poll which showes 51% in favour of a UI.That poll was at the time unionists needed to be kept in line when Boris shafted them.The present poll coincides in time with the glorious victory of SF and the fear that they will now press for a border poll.If SF were to get such a poll, Scotland would be squealing for another Indyreferendum.Boris and his lot would only be too happy to get shot of the 6, but not Scotland.            "Let's scare the living f. out of them with an " independent" poll"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Feb 2020 at 10:01am
     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dalymount79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Feb 2020 at 11:47am
A couple of things coming up in NI in the next couple of years.
What the indicators are for a border pole who knows.

2021 Census - it will be interesting in light of Brexit what nationality people will identify then selves as. In 2011 the majority of people of Protestant / Unionist tradition identified as British while Catholic / Nationalist as Irish or Northern Irish.

Will P/Us drift to an NI identity  - Will the C / N consider themselves more Irish than Northern Irish.

What will the U40s who’ve had kids in the the last ten years view themselves as and put their kids down as.

Next assembly election - due before May 2020.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bogball88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2020 at 12:21am
Rumours that John Hume has passed away
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brianie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2020 at 1:00am
Originally posted by bogball88 bogball88 wrote:

Rumours that John Hume has passed away
Source?
ITS KEANE YES

YBIG You Can Please some of the People Some of the Time But Not All of The People All of The Time
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2020 at 8:59am
What’s happening in the north at the minute is that Michelle O’Neill is being vilified in the media for speaking up and saying that the north’s reaction to Covid is too slow, and being accused of turning it into an orange and green issue, whilst at the same time the same outlets are quizzing her on whether she would support the British army building an emergency hospital for coronavirus patients 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrendanD88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2020 at 12:01pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

What’s happening in the north at the minute is that Michelle O’Neill is being vilified in the media for speaking up and saying that the north’s reaction to Covid is too slow, and being accused of turning it into an orange and green issue, whilst at the same time the same outlets are quizzing her on whether she would support the British army building an emergency hospital for coronavirus patients 
 
100%!! Michelle O'Neill is 100% spot on, the way Robin Swann has handled things has been nothing short of embarrassing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Double Maxim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Apr 2020 at 1:43pm
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