Michael Obafemi |
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Conan
Davey Langan I’m not very bright. Joined: 11 Mar 2015 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 939 |
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Sure they all say that once they've got picked for us, same as the likes of Kane and Rooney most likely would have had they turned out to be Championship quality players, but I tend to doubt any of them would have given a second thought to their Irishness had it not offered them a convenient route to international football. I mean what location your granny dropped out in to the world several decades before your existence doesn't have a pressing relevance to most peoples lives and identity and why would it?
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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It depends which granny; the dead one from Dublin I wouldn't be arsed about, the other one's birthplace was very relevant and important to me. Which is the point of this argument. Everybody's relationship with their families is different, the FIFA eligibility laws are fair enough as they let anybody with a genuine connection to a country to play for that country. We have difficulty looking at things from a point of view other than our own, so if you don't care where your granny is from then it would be irrational for anybody else to care about where their granny is from. We also overplay the importance of international football for most of these lads. It is more of a hindrance than a help on their careers, so it is unlikely many of them are doing this for anything other than genuine reasons. I am sure there are exceptions to that, but we are unlikely to know that. |
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Conan
Davey Langan I’m not very bright. Joined: 11 Mar 2015 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 939 |
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So would you accept it if I accused you of being a Dub because that was where one of your grandparents happened to originate or would you perhaps retort by saying that is of new direct relevance to your existence and identity?
You can love your granny as much as you like , nobody is so socially maladjusted as to hark back to her childhood origins as the defining criteria for their sense of place in the world. At the very least its so unlikely as to be ruled out on the basis of probability, and yet so many Irish football fans cling so desperately to this fiction that most human beings would find ridiculous. Edited by Conan - 04 Apr 2019 at 11:46pm |
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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You are missing the point, somewhat deliberately I think. Let's just switch my examples around, imagine my other grandmothers swapped and I was really close to my Dublin born and reared Nan, there is a fair chance I would have an affinity to Dublin, or at least hate the place less than I do. Our views of the world, including our nationality(or nationalities) and what we accept that to be, are developed by experience and development as a child. Most children have an affinity with a grandparent, it isn't bizarre for a young lad to have an affinity to the place that shaped someone they cared about, particularly when they have a different accent. That accent then becomes associated with the place an that association may never leave and, like everything in life, it won't be the same for all siblings. One child might have an enormous connection with his granny and her nationality, his twin might be closer to her husband and not her nationality. It may not be the defining criterion for their nationality, but other criteria will also affect it. I know of a few 'English' lads who would have played for Ireland based on their love of a grandparent. I don't think they were in any way 'socially maladjusted'. I can't speak for everybody else, or anybody else, but I certainly don't cling to any fiction at all. I couldn't give a f**k whether they have any national affinity or none, as long as they try their best when they arrive. What is ridiculous is people trying to justify their own pathetic ethno-nationalism by dismissing people's personal identity because they can only understand the world from their point of view. I think if you want that 'true Gael' nonsense, whatever the f**k that is, you would be better watching Mickey Kelly on RTÉ 2 on Sunday nights. Just to go one step further, Ireland is full of people with 'connections' to football teams from cities to which people have no family connection at all. I know hundreds of lads whose whole weekend seems to be dependent on a group of half-arsed mercenaries from around the world playing in London, Manchester, Liverpool etc. It is normal for Tommy from Tullamore, whose parents and grandparents are all from a thirty mile radius, to grow up wanting to play for Liverpool, but it is mad for Davie from Dagenham to want to play for his gran's homeland?
Edited by pre Madonna - 05 Apr 2019 at 12:28am |
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Gabrieléire
Davey Langan Joined: 22 Jul 2016 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 758 |
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I dont I agree with all the English born lads statement ^^. Aiden O’Brien and Callum O’Dowda are two I believe always wanted to be there. 100%. Clark is a strange one, I’ve met his Da and he said his son is so proud to represent Ireland and has been brought up 100% irish but he did pay for England underage. Richard Keogh too, he is fully committed to us he said he wanted to represent us over England im sure. |
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McG
Moderator Group SISAO? What the hell is SISAO? Joined: 27 Jan 2008 Location: Christmas Island Status: Offline Points: 26996 |
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Off topic but did anybody else see Alistair McGowan's brilliant take off of Gary Lineker and Mark Lawrensen on MOTD recalling Marks days in green. Completely ripped the piss out of his association with us. Lawro apparently vetoed it and it's no longer available anywhere. It was brilliant.
Edited by McG - 05 Apr 2019 at 8:46am |
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YBIG Table Quiz winner 2016 & 2017
AS YOU WERE McGx |
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Drumcondra 69er
Jack Charlton Joined: 07 Oct 2009 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 7123 |
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I know. Everybody knows it was Roy's fault.
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Beavis
500 Club la la la Joined: 21 Sep 2009 Location: Waterford Status: Offline Points: 541 |
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I've no idea what the issue with Joe Brolly is, but it's not unreasonable or quasi-sectarian/racist to question a players affinity for the country he's declared for. My reasoning is rooted in your following comment.
Tommy from Tullamore, like the thousands of Irish supporters who trek over the UK every weekend, is mental. I have absolutely no idea how Irish people follow random British clubs with lavishly paid hired-hands from the four corners of the globe. I don't even understand how people who live next to the stadia do. How is there any glory in winning because a billionaire from the Middle-east decided to dabble in football? Club football, in the supporting sense, holds zero appeal to me. The rich team is inevitably the one that wins...exciting. Thus, I and many national team supporters need to feel the players have at least some connection with this country to find it worthwhile. I don't know exactly what the grounds for that affinity should be; and I accept things can get murky when you attempt to define these things. However, I have issue with the requirement simply being a player trying. If the requirement was just that a patient tried this would render international football, at least for me, redundant. Countries with greater financial muscle would take the best from elsewhere (I'm sure they'd be happy to try their best for the right financial rewards) and it would be as same pointless as club football. Perhaps it already is to a degree, but I'm happy to live in ignorance for another few years.
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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The requirement isn't simply trying though, is it? It is being eligible and trying,because after that it is in the realms of thought-crime. We have no idea how important playing for Ireland is or isn't for them. As I have said before, I am sure there are plenty of Irish born and reared lads who it doesn't mean that much to, I am sure some of them have already played for us and gone unquestioned, while Irish lads from Birmingham,Manchester and London have had their Irish identity questioned by everyone. Which is why I said it was ethno-nationalistic, which it clearly is. I never mentioned racism or sectarianism, which are two different things, although ethno-nationalism and racism are often bedfellows. The reason I mentioned Joe Brolly was his love of 'true Gaels' and all that nonsense. There is an ethno-nationalistic streak that still runs through the GAA and one that I have always found disturbing. It is part of what making being a football fan in Ireland, or rugby for that matter, so appealing. I hate to see Irish football fans go down a similar route.
Edited by pre Madonna - 05 Apr 2019 at 5:24pm |
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DeclanDaly
Ray Houghton Joined: 17 Oct 2013 Location: Boston, USA Status: Offline Points: 3254 |
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Seems to be two camps on this thread: those who think they can speak for every single player born outside the 32 counties who has even lined out for us and ever will, and those that say that’s not possible.
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You asked if I'd be anyone from history, fact or fiction, dead or alive:
I said "I'd be Tony Cascarino, circa 1995" |
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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The easiest way to do it would be to make them pass a test before they are allowed to put on the green jersey. It would remove all time wasters. Some sample questions could be: -Do you have a relative called John or Mary? (Bonus points for Séan, Eoin, Máire or Maura) -Who played Sean Thornton in 'The Quiet Man'? -What breakfast item does Ryan Tubridy most resemble? - What is the hot press? -What is the Hot Press? - What is the plural of Taoiseach? - Which Boyzone member had sisters in B*witched? -What is the quickest way out of Thurles on Munster Final day? (Please include all workings) -How long should a wedding last? -How much should a wedding cost? (Please include all workings) -Describe Bono in one-word or less? - Pronounce the following words: yoghurt, film, vehicle, committee and sandwich. -In 500 words or more, describe the best pint of Guinness in Ireland. Using the maps provided, please give an approximation of where the establishment is on the map. That sort of thing.
Edited by pre Madonna - 05 Apr 2019 at 4:35pm |
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NewtNewbie
Liam Brady Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Status: Offline Points: 2416 |
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Michaél Ó Bafemi is Irish as they come.
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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Jaysis.
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NewtNewbie
Liam Brady Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Status: Offline Points: 2416 |
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Just a riff on a joke Obama made when he was over in Moneygall. You like Obama, don't you?
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DeclanDaly
Ray Houghton Joined: 17 Oct 2013 Location: Boston, USA Status: Offline Points: 3254 |
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You know what would be really funny? If somebody called him O’bafemi instead of Obafemi
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You asked if I'd be anyone from history, fact or fiction, dead or alive:
I said "I'd be Tony Cascarino, circa 1995" |
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PanteirA
Jack Charlton Joined: 29 Jul 2012 Location: Ciarrai Status: Offline Points: 6744 |
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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Nope, he's a mass murdering ****.
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NewtNewbie
Liam Brady Joined: 05 Feb 2013 Status: Offline Points: 2416 |
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What was it about the bombing of eight separate countries, increasing drone strikes tenfold over the neocon Bush administration, increasing special forces deployments to 70% of the globe (138 countries) and dropping more than 26,000 bombs in a single year that put you off? I mean he said all the right things...
Edited by NewtNewbie - 05 Apr 2019 at 11:13pm |
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