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Ray Houghton
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Points: 4790 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2023 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by Banana_RepublicFC Banana_RepublicFC wrote:

Originally posted by TheNumber6 TheNumber6 wrote:

Doubt at this stage in his career that minutes are his priority tbf. Young Doc ain’t so Young no more.

He probably shouldn't be starting for Ireland next month. Yet he will due to a lack of options.

Sykes can player there, but I doubt Kenny would trust him.

He may not be playing regularly, but he's training in one of the most competitive environments in Europe under Simeone. He's probably our best player of recent years and you want to replace him with a Bristol City midfielder? Has to be in the starting XI regardless of match fitness.
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Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by Banana_RepublicFC Banana_RepublicFC wrote:

Originally posted by TheNumber6 TheNumber6 wrote:

Doubt at this stage in his career that minutes are his priority tbf. Young Doc ain’t so Young no more.

He probably shouldn't be starting for Ireland next month. Yet he will due to a lack of options.

Sykes can player there, but I doubt Kenny would trust him.

He may not be playing regularly, but he's training in one of the most competitive environments in Europe under Simeone. He's probably our best player of recent years and you want to replace him with a Bristol City midfielder? Has to be in the starting XI regardless of match fitness.

Unless you have seen Atlético train regularly, I don't think you can make that assumption. Nothing can replicate competitive minutes. Very few players can switch it on without building up some sharpness.

I don't think Doherty has been as good as you claim either. He's never shown his Wolves form in an Irish shirt. 1 goal and 0 assist from 34 caps. Cyrus Christie has scored 2 goals and provided 1 assist from 30 caps.

I like Doherty as a player, but let's not act like it's a case of dropping Messi.
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Ray Houghton
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Originally posted by Banana_RepublicFC Banana_RepublicFC wrote:

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by Banana_RepublicFC Banana_RepublicFC wrote:

Originally posted by TheNumber6 TheNumber6 wrote:

Doubt at this stage in his career that minutes are his priority tbf. Young Doc ain’t so Young no more.

He probably shouldn't be starting for Ireland next month. Yet he will due to a lack of options.

Sykes can player there, but I doubt Kenny would trust him.

He may not be playing regularly, but he's training in one of the most competitive environments in Europe under Simeone. He's probably our best player of recent years and you want to replace him with a Bristol City midfielder? Has to be in the starting XI regardless of match fitness.

Unless you have seen Atlético train regularly, I don't think you can make that assumption. Nothing can replicate competitive minutes. Very few players can switch it on without building up some sharpness.

I don't think Doherty has been as good as you claim either. He's never shown his Wolves form in an Irish shirt. 1 goal and 0 assist from 34 caps. Cyrus Christie has scored 2 goals and provided 1 assist from 30 caps.

I like Doherty as a player, but let's not act like it's a case of dropping Messi.
 

With Coleman out he still starts. It’s 2023 not 1983 elite clubs have big squads now and every country bar the top 5/6 have had a scenario like this in the last 10 years one of their better players who hasn’t gotten many minutes at an elite club because he’s been dropped manager doesn’t like him etc. it’s just part and parcel of modern football 

Is Doherty Cafu not exactly but would I drop him for players playing at Bristol (not even a natural wing back) or Hull. No I wouldn’t. 


Edited by kevin100 - 28 May 2023 at 3:13pm
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Originally posted by kevin100 kevin100 wrote:

Originally posted by Banana_RepublicFC Banana_RepublicFC wrote:

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by Banana_RepublicFC Banana_RepublicFC wrote:

Originally posted by TheNumber6 TheNumber6 wrote:

Doubt at this stage in his career that minutes are his priority tbf. Young Doc ain’t so Young no more.

He probably shouldn't be starting for Ireland next month. Yet he will due to a lack of options.

Sykes can player there, but I doubt Kenny would trust him.

He may not be playing regularly, but he's training in one of the most competitive environments in Europe under Simeone. He's probably our best player of recent years and you want to replace him with a Bristol City midfielder? Has to be in the starting XI regardless of match fitness.

Unless you have seen Atlético train regularly, I don't think you can make that assumption. Nothing can replicate competitive minutes. Very few players can switch it on without building up some sharpness.

I don't think Doherty has been as good as you claim either. He's never shown his Wolves form in an Irish shirt. 1 goal and 0 assist from 34 caps. Cyrus Christie has scored 2 goals and provided 1 assist from 30 caps.

I like Doherty as a player, but let's not act like it's a case of dropping Messi.
 

With Coleman out he still starts. It’s 2023 not 1983 elite clubs have big squads now and every country bar the top 5/6 have had a scenario like this in the last 10 years one of their better players who hasn’t gotten many minutes at an elite club because he’s been dropped manager doesn’t like him etc. it’s just part and parcel of modern football 

Is Doherty Cafu not exactly but would I drop him for players playing at Bristol (not even a natural wing back) or Hull. No I wouldn’t. 

It sets a bad precedent for players who are actually playing and pushing for a start i.e. the manager has favourites.

England have the same situation happening right now with Maguire and Phillips getting called up despite a lack of game time. I would still call Doherty up due to us having a smaller pool of players to choose from, but I don't think he deserves to start the game unless he gets some decent minutes over the next week for Atlético. They have 2 league games left.

And btw, I wasn't advocating that Christie starts. His stats were just to show how meh Doherty has been in an attacking sense for Ireland.
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Ray Houghton
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Points: 3187 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevin100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2023 at 3:44pm
Originally posted by Banana_RepublicFC Banana_RepublicFC wrote:

Originally posted by kevin100 kevin100 wrote:

Originally posted by Banana_RepublicFC Banana_RepublicFC wrote:

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by Banana_RepublicFC Banana_RepublicFC wrote:

Originally posted by TheNumber6 TheNumber6 wrote:

Doubt at this stage in his career that minutes are his priority tbf. Young Doc ain’t so Young no more.

He probably shouldn't be starting for Ireland next month. Yet he will due to a lack of options.

Sykes can player there, but I doubt Kenny would trust him.

He may not be playing regularly, but he's training in one of the most competitive environments in Europe under Simeone. He's probably our best player of recent years and you want to replace him with a Bristol City midfielder? Has to be in the starting XI regardless of match fitness.

Unless you have seen Atlético train regularly, I don't think you can make that assumption. Nothing can replicate competitive minutes. Very few players can switch it on without building up some sharpness.

I don't think Doherty has been as good as you claim either. He's never shown his Wolves form in an Irish shirt. 1 goal and 0 assist from 34 caps. Cyrus Christie has scored 2 goals and provided 1 assist from 30 caps.

I like Doherty as a player, but let's not act like it's a case of dropping Messi.
 

With Coleman out he still starts. It’s 2023 not 1983 elite clubs have big squads now and every country bar the top 5/6 have had a scenario like this in the last 10 years one of their better players who hasn’t gotten many minutes at an elite club because he’s been dropped manager doesn’t like him etc. it’s just part and parcel of modern football 

Is Doherty Cafu not exactly but would I drop him for players playing at Bristol (not even a natural wing back) or Hull. No I wouldn’t. 

It sets a bad precedent for players who are actually playing and pushing for a start i.e. the manager has favourites.

England have the same situation happening right now with Maguire and Phillips getting called up despite a lack of game time. I would still call Doherty up due to us having a smaller pool of players to choose from, but I don't think he deserves to start the game unless he gets some decent minutes over the next week for Atlético. They have 2 league games left.

And btw, I wasn't advocating that Christie starts. His stats were just to show how meh Doherty has been in an attacking sense for Ireland.
 

England would be one of those 5/6 countries that can afford to replace players like that as they have so many options and even England in both Maguire and Phillips case aren’t teeming with depth in either position. 

I see the point your making but Irish journalists write pieces crying every week and fans cry about the lack of Irish players playing PL football yet have a meltdown anytime a player gets dropped like Collins or Bazunu “oh he needs regular game-time” followed by the inevitable “he should drop to the Championship if it means regular gametime”.  They can’t have it every way. 

PL and elite clubs have big squads nowadays 25 players plus by the law of averages your going to have a few Irish players in the situation Doherty is in especially if we have 10/12 playing at that level. I’m sure he will move on in the summer.

Tbf he hasn’t in goal contributions sense but he has put in some brillaint performances Portugal the main one. 
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Points: 4790 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2023 at 10:15am
Originally posted by kevin100 kevin100 wrote:

Originally posted by Banana_RepublicFC Banana_RepublicFC wrote:

Originally posted by kevin100 kevin100 wrote:

Originally posted by Banana_RepublicFC Banana_RepublicFC wrote:

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by Banana_RepublicFC Banana_RepublicFC wrote:

Originally posted by TheNumber6 TheNumber6 wrote:

Doubt at this stage in his career that minutes are his priority tbf. Young Doc ain’t so Young no more.

He probably shouldn't be starting for Ireland next month. Yet he will due to a lack of options.

Sykes can player there, but I doubt Kenny would trust him.

He may not be playing regularly, but he's training in one of the most competitive environments in Europe under Simeone. He's probably our best player of recent years and you want to replace him with a Bristol City midfielder? Has to be in the starting XI regardless of match fitness.

Unless you have seen Atlético train regularly, I don't think you can make that assumption. Nothing can replicate competitive minutes. Very few players can switch it on without building up some sharpness.

I don't think Doherty has been as good as you claim either. He's never shown his Wolves form in an Irish shirt. 1 goal and 0 assist from 34 caps. Cyrus Christie has scored 2 goals and provided 1 assist from 30 caps.

I like Doherty as a player, but let's not act like it's a case of dropping Messi.
 

With Coleman out he still starts. It’s 2023 not 1983 elite clubs have big squads now and every country bar the top 5/6 have had a scenario like this in the last 10 years one of their better players who hasn’t gotten many minutes at an elite club because he’s been dropped manager doesn’t like him etc. it’s just part and parcel of modern football 

Is Doherty Cafu not exactly but would I drop him for players playing at Bristol (not even a natural wing back) or Hull. No I wouldn’t. 

It sets a bad precedent for players who are actually playing and pushing for a start i.e. the manager has favourites.

England have the same situation happening right now with Maguire and Phillips getting called up despite a lack of game time. I would still call Doherty up due to us having a smaller pool of players to choose from, but I don't think he deserves to start the game unless he gets some decent minutes over the next week for Atlético. They have 2 league games left.

And btw, I wasn't advocating that Christie starts. His stats were just to show how meh Doherty has been in an attacking sense for Ireland.
 

England would be one of those 5/6 countries that can afford to replace players like that as they have so many options and even England in both Maguire and Phillips case aren’t teeming with depth in either position. 

I see the point your making but Irish journalists write pieces crying every week and fans cry about the lack of Irish players playing PL football yet have a meltdown anytime a player gets dropped like Collins or Bazunu “oh he needs regular game-time” followed by the inevitable “he should drop to the Championship if it means regular gametime”.  They can’t have it every way. 

PL and elite clubs have big squads nowadays 25 players plus by the law of averages your going to have a few Irish players in the situation Doherty is in especially if we have 10/12 playing at that level. I’m sure he will move on in the summer.

Tbf he hasn’t in goal contributions sense but he has put in some brillaint performances Portugal the main one. 

And he played out of position at LWB vs Portugal, this was also at a time when he wasnt starting regularly, as was the case vs France where he was also excellent. If lads think 6 months under one of the best coaches in Europe at a Top 10 European club is going to derail his career then who am I to argue. 

He is the one Irish player in the last 10 years to get a transfer to a Top 6 English club who unfortunately are a bit of a basket case. That was on the back of a season where he was arguably the best wing back in the PL. Drop him for Sykes??? I despair!
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Let's start Farrugia ahead of him, sure isnt he match fit!
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Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Let's start Farrugia ahead of him, sure isnt he match fit!

No need to take your Kelleher frustrations out on poor Farrugia.
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Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Let's start Farrugia ahead of him, sure isnt he match fit!

He is match fit yeah. There is no doubt Doherty will start but he will probably struggle towards the end of the game due to the heat and lack of game time.

I never said to start Jack Byrne, just something to consider as he is match fix, creative and a player who can create goals. Which is why I would have included him.

I've no issue with his exclusion though. It was just a throw a way comment really.

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The Saudis are in for young Doherty
"He f**ked me over and my attitude is an eye for an eye."
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Originally posted by eboue16 eboue16 wrote:

The Saudis are in for young Doherty
young lad has his whole career infront of him and he's going to throw that all away for money? whos advising him?
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Looks like he's heading back to Wolves. Will be good to see him back in the Premier League and hopefully playing more regularly than he has in the last couple of years.

The number of Irish players players in the Premier League starting to look a good bit healthier for next season now with Egan, Collins, O'Shea, Coleman, Doherty, Cullen, Ogbene and Ferguson all potentially challenging for starting places at a minimum and a few others hopefully in and around matchday squads also. That's eight of a potential Ireland starting 11 right there, and we still don't know what's going to happen with Kelleher and Omobamidele, so the "we don't have the players" argument is looking weak at this point.


Edited by You Tell Me - 11 Jul 2023 at 9:04am
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Fairplay to Doherty, leaving Wolves hasn't worked from a footballing POV, but he must have doubled his bank balance over the past three years.
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Great move for him. 
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Originally posted by Maccatacca Maccatacca wrote:

Fairplay to Doherty, leaving Wolves hasn't worked from a footballing POV, but he must have doubled his bank balance over the past three years.
And made Bohs a bundle of cash Clap
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Lads saying the move to Madrid would be good for him for footballing reasons 😀😀😀😀
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Originally posted by 9fingers 9fingers wrote:

Originally posted by Maccatacca Maccatacca wrote:

Fairplay to Doherty, leaving Wolves hasn't worked from a footballing POV, but he must have doubled his bank balance over the past three years.
And made Bohs a bundle of cash Clap

Let’s hope the same happens with McManus too. 
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Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Lads saying the move to Madrid would be good for him for footballing reasons 😀😀😀😀

He didn't play...

Anyway no need to focus on the negatives, he's made himself a heap of cash and full power to him.
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