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Journalists/writers - who's good and who's bad

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabra Hoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2021 at 7:28pm
Good - Michael Harding, Keith Duggan, Brian Glanville, Miriam Lord, Tobias Jones....Bad - Fintan O Toole, Eamon Sweeney, Paul Williams
" BFC always gives me a laugh........ "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The GerK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2021 at 8:11pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Martin Samuel is one of those sportswriters who is revered in England and I can't for the life of me think why! Henry Winter is another one. Ken Early would be similar at home.

I enjoy Marina Hyde, even though I think she is very much a part of the problem, but she is funny.  Polly Toynbee is a decent writer, I have to admit, but I can't read her without getting annoyed. I believe Phil Ochs summed her up in a song once!LOL I only agree with Owen Jones about 90% of the time, but I do enjoy his writing aside of that.  I only agree with O'Toole about half the time, but he is a national treasure. I don't think I have ever disagreed with Monbiot, but he is unquestionably an excellent writer. Gary Younge, John Harris, Naomi O'Leary and Arwa Mahdawi are all writers I would read based on name rather than headlines. Scally, the Irish Times man in Berlin, is excellent too. 
Someone mentioned Chris Johns and he is very enjoyable, for a posh capitalist!
On the other side, the likes of Nick Cohen, Andrew Rawnsley and Jonathan Freedland are barely literate.

I love Eamonn Sweeney and rarely agree with him, or even have much of an interest in the subject. I haven't read much of him in a while though. His book on following Sligo Rovers is a masterpiece. Donald McRae is similar.  

Football wise, Michael Walker's recent eulogy to Colin Bell might change my opinion of him! It was an incredible piece. Harry Pearson is absolutely brilliant, as is David Conn. There are still others out there who are great, but my lack of interest in the game at franchise level means I don't bother any more.




Sweeney one of the most under celebrated writers in Ireland. As you say, agree or not he is very sharp with a pen
The Count never won the Young Scientist of the Year award. It still haunts him to this very day, FACT
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2021 at 8:56pm
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/eamonn-sweeney-have-you-ever-seen-a-starker-contrast-between-sports-than-the-hurling-final-and-irelands-qualifiers-36116885.html

"So itโ€™s unfair to compare soccer with hurling. The first is a game, the second an art. And like all great art, it ennobles not just the creator but the connoisseur"

Dead

Good writer or not, Sweeney (who was probably dancing in the streets like the rest of us during Italia 90) can get fooked. 

Hurling is an "art" that no country gives a fook about outside of Ireland. Any achievements in either of the two main gah sports will always pale in comparison to our national football team qualifying for a world cup or any major tournament. 

If we had beaten Serbia (the game Sweeney was alluding to) that night at home, it would've seen us qualify as group winners with only  a point needed in Wales. 

An entertaining hurling final doesn't compare to qualification for a major tournament on the international stage. The qualification/months of build up and the whole country being behind the Irish team is something the sport which Sweeney calls an art, will never ever surpass. 

Rant over anyway LOL


Edited by irishmufc - 31 Jan 2021 at 9:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2021 at 10:47am
Mark Tighe and Paul Rowen Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Newryrep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2021 at 11:00am
Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Mark Tighe and Paul Rowen Thumbs Up

Indeed - good call 
'Irish' Songs for an Irish team - no SPL EPL generic sh*te
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2021 at 11:02am
Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/eamonn-sweeney-have-you-ever-seen-a-starker-contrast-between-sports-than-the-hurling-final-and-irelands-qualifiers-36116885.html

"So itโ€™s unfair to compare soccer with hurling. The first is a game, the second an art. And like all great art, it ennobles not just the creator but the connoisseur"

Dead

Good writer or not, Sweeney (who was probably dancing in the streets like the rest of us during Italia 90) can get fooked. 

Hurling is an "art" that no country gives a fook about outside of Ireland. Any achievements in either of the two main gah sports will always pale in comparison to our national football team qualifying for a world cup or any major tournament. 

If we had beaten Serbia (the game Sweeney was alluding to) that night at home, it would've seen us qualify as group winners with only  a point needed in Wales. 

An entertaining hurling final doesn't compare to qualification for a major tournament on the international stage. The qualification/months of build up and the whole country being behind the Irish team is something the sport which Sweeney calls an art, will never ever surpass. 

Rant over anyway LOL
I used to read his GAA columns though, despite having a strong hatred of the association and no interest at all in the games themselves. As I mentioned, I very rarely agree with him at all, but always enjoy the way it is put across. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2021 at 11:18am
yeah I think there a few differences here 

There are very good writers such as Sweeney and whether you agree or disagree you can admire the writing. 

Then there are good journalists who work on a story and investigate it  and are brave in their follow up and analyse it and present it in a fashion that the reader can understand.  Tighe and Rowan fall into that category.  

People who work in an industry and do a piece on a Sunday in relation to their area of expertise are not really journalists in my view.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2021 at 11:22am
Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/eamonn-sweeney-have-you-ever-seen-a-starker-contrast-between-sports-than-the-hurling-final-and-irelands-qualifiers-36116885.html

"So itโ€™s unfair to compare soccer with hurling. The first is a game, the second an art. And like all great art, it ennobles not just the creator but the connoisseur"

Dead

Good writer or not, Sweeney (who was probably dancing in the streets like the rest of us during Italia 90) can get fooked. 

Hurling is an "art" that no country gives a fook about outside of Ireland. Any achievements in either of the two main gah sports will always pale in comparison to our national football team qualifying for a world cup or any major tournament. 

If we had beaten Serbia (the game Sweeney was alluding to) that night at home, it would've seen us qualify as group winners with only  a point needed in Wales. 

An entertaining hurling final doesn't compare to qualification for a major tournament on the international stage. The qualification/months of build up and the whole country being behind the Irish team is something the sport which Sweeney calls an art, will never ever surpass. 

Rant over anyway LOL
Many times in recent years there has been a stark contrast between the brilliance of the hurling final and the utter turgidity of Ireland qualifiers

Bizarre "point" about hurling not being popular outside Ireland, as if that has any connection to its worth as a sport - it doesn't - it only demonstrates that Ireland is a tiny country without much historical or contemporary international political, cultural or media influence

Ireland didn't qualify for the 2018 World Cup, if they'd got enough points to qualify, they'd have qualified, but they didn't, so they didn't 

If they'd won the play-off, they'd have qualified, but they didn't, so they didn't, and neither will they be qualifying for a World Cup for a long time

Not sure how you make out the Ireland team qualifying for the last 16 at a 24 team Euros is a greater sporting achievement than winning an All-Ireland, but carry on 

Think you'll find that winning an All-Ireland is celebrated as much and more in most counties than Ireland qualifying for a finals in association football

I suppose being from a county which has never won an All-Ireland in your lifetime you wouldn't be in the best position to know that Wink




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2021 at 11:34am
hurling is a niche sport in Ireland never mind the rest of the world.  

Achievements at an elite world level in football far surpass achievements in hurling due to pure size of population playing the sport and the competition just to become an elite professional in the first place. 

Hurling is a great sport and entertainment levels have been off the Richter scale in comparison to Irish World Cup qualifiers of the last 20 or so year.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2021 at 11:47am
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

hurling is a niche sport in Ireland never mind the rest of the world.  

Achievements at an elite world level in football far surpass achievements in hurling due to pure size of population playing the sport and the competition just to become an elite professional in the first place. 

Hurling is a great sport and entertainment levels have been off the Richter scale in comparison to Irish World Cup qualifiers of the last 20 or so year.  
Depends what you count as an achievement, Ireland haven't had many in history, I'd consider Kilkenny's four in a row well ahead of Ireland reaching the last 16 of a Euros in terms of achievement, not least because they actually won the biggest trophy in their sport, not once but four times, and some of those players won it eight or nine times

For the similar reasons I'd consider Wigan's eight in a row Challenge Cups between 1988 and 1995 as a far bigger sporting achievement than Ireland reaching a Euros
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2021 at 11:49am
Also nobody really cares that much about international football these days, it's gone a bit like the FA Cup
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2021 at 11:57am
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

hurling is a niche sport in Ireland never mind the rest of the world.  

Achievements at an elite world level in football far surpass achievements in hurling due to pure size of population playing the sport and the competition just to become an elite professional in the first place. 

Hurling is a great sport and entertainment levels have been off the Richter scale in comparison to Irish World Cup qualifiers of the last 20 or so year.  
Depends what you count as an achievement, Ireland haven't had many in history, I'd consider Kilkenny's four in a row well ahead of Ireland reaching the last 16 of a Euros in terms of achievement, not least because they actually won the biggest trophy in their sport, not once but four times, and some of those players won it eight or nine times

For the similar reasons I'd consider Wigan's eight in a row Challenge Cups between 1988 and 1995 as a far bigger sporting achievement than Ireland reaching a Euros
The thing is though, only a handful of counties have a realistic opportunity of winning the All-Ireland. 
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2021 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

hurling is a niche sport in Ireland never mind the rest of the world.  

Achievements at an elite world level in football far surpass achievements in hurling due to pure size of population playing the sport and the competition just to become an elite professional in the first place. 

Hurling is a great sport and entertainment levels have been off the Richter scale in comparison to Irish World Cup qualifiers of the last 20 or so year.  
Depends what you count as an achievement, Ireland haven't had many in history, I'd consider Kilkenny's four in a row well ahead of Ireland reaching the last 16 of a Euros in terms of achievement, not least because they actually won the biggest trophy in their sport, not once but four times, and some of those players won it eight or nine times

For the similar reasons I'd consider Wigan's eight in a row Challenge Cups between 1988 and 1995 as a far bigger sporting achievement than Ireland reaching a Euros
The thing is though, only a handful of counties have a realistic opportunity of winning the All-Ireland. 
 

You can say that about pretty much any elite competition in team sport

I mean who realistically thought any team outside Liverpool or the Sheikhs could win the Premier League this season

Who realistically thought any team outside about five or six teams could win the 2018 World Cup, and that's a cup competition


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2021 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

hurling is a niche sport in Ireland never mind the rest of the world.  

Achievements at an elite world level in football far surpass achievements in hurling due to pure size of population playing the sport and the competition just to become an elite professional in the first place. 

Hurling is a great sport and entertainment levels have been off the Richter scale in comparison to Irish World Cup qualifiers of the last 20 or so year.  
Depends what you count as an achievement, Ireland haven't had many in history, I'd consider Kilkenny's four in a row well ahead of Ireland reaching the last 16 of a Euros in terms of achievement, not least because they actually won the biggest trophy in their sport, not once but four times, and some of those players won it eight or nine times

For the similar reasons I'd consider Wigan's eight in a row Challenge Cups between 1988 and 1995 as a far bigger sporting achievement than Ireland reaching a Euros
The thing is though, only a handful of counties have a realistic opportunity of winning the All-Ireland. 
 

You can say that about pretty much any elite competition in team sport

I mean who realistically thought any team outside Liverpool or the Sheikhs could win the Premier League this season

Who realistically thought any team outside about five or six teams could win the 2018 World Cup, and that's a cup competition



But probably around 30 teams could realistically think they'd have a chance of making the last 16 at the Euros. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2021 at 12:16pm
Apples and Oranges lads
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2021 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

hurling is a niche sport in Ireland never mind the rest of the world.  

Achievements at an elite world level in football far surpass achievements in hurling due to pure size of population playing the sport and the competition just to become an elite professional in the first place. 

Hurling is a great sport and entertainment levels have been off the Richter scale in comparison to Irish World Cup qualifiers of the last 20 or so year.  
Depends what you count as an achievement, Ireland haven't had many in history, I'd consider Kilkenny's four in a row well ahead of Ireland reaching the last 16 of a Euros in terms of achievement, not least because they actually won the biggest trophy in their sport, not once but four times, and some of those players won it eight or nine times

For the similar reasons I'd consider Wigan's eight in a row Challenge Cups between 1988 and 1995 as a far bigger sporting achievement than Ireland reaching a Euros
The thing is though, only a handful of counties have a realistic opportunity of winning the All-Ireland. 
 

You can say that about pretty much any elite competition in team sport

I mean who realistically thought any team outside Liverpool or the Sheikhs could win the Premier League this season

Who realistically thought any team outside about five or six teams could win the 2018 World Cup, and that's a cup competition



But probably around 30 teams could realistically think they'd have a chance of making the last 16 at the Euros. 
And over 50% of them did
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2021 at 10:39pm
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/eamonn-sweeney-have-you-ever-seen-a-starker-contrast-between-sports-than-the-hurling-final-and-irelands-qualifiers-36116885.html

"So itโ€™s unfair to compare soccer with hurling. The first is a game, the second an art. And like all great art, it ennobles not just the creator but the connoisseur"

Dead

Good writer or not, Sweeney (who was probably dancing in the streets like the rest of us during Italia 90) can get fooked. 

Hurling is an "art" that no country gives a fook about outside of Ireland. Any achievements in either of the two main gah sports will always pale in comparison to our national football team qualifying for a world cup or any major tournament. 

If we had beaten Serbia (the game Sweeney was alluding to) that night at home, it would've seen us qualify as group winners with only  a point needed in Wales. 

An entertaining hurling final doesn't compare to qualification for a major tournament on the international stage. The qualification/months of build up and the whole country being behind the Irish team is something the sport which Sweeney calls an art, will never ever surpass. 

Rant over anyway LOL
Many times in recent years there has been a stark contrast between the brilliance of the hurling final and the utter turgidity of Ireland qualifiers

Bizarre "point" about hurling not being popular outside Ireland, as if that has any connection to its worth as a sport - it doesn't - it only demonstrates that Ireland is a tiny country without much historical or contemporary international political, cultural or media influence

Ireland didn't qualify for the 2018 World Cup, if they'd got enough points to qualify, they'd have qualified, but they didn't, so they didn't 

If they'd won the play-off, they'd have qualified, but they didn't, so they didn't, and neither will they be qualifying for a World Cup for a long time

Not sure how you make out the Ireland team qualifying for the last 16 at a 24 team Euros is a greater sporting achievement than winning an All-Ireland, but carry on 

Think you'll find that winning an All-Ireland is celebrated as much and more in most counties than Ireland qualifying for a finals in association football

I suppose being from a county which has never won an All-Ireland in your lifetime you wouldn't be in the best position to know that Wink





Believe me Sid, it means more to you than it does to me if Mayo win an All-Ireland. I would swap Mayo never winning it for Conor Ray Charles Hourihane burying his 5 yard chance in Slovakia. 

It's 'we' and 'us' when it's Liverpool and 'they' when it comes to Ireland but I suspect that might be fishing more than anything so congrats hook,line and sinker on that one LOL

The bigger achievement is how our country does on the international stage. As someone that follows Mayo in the gah and enjoys watching hurling matches, any achievement in the gah sport has nowhere near the impact around the world in sporting terms the way a last minute Robbie Keane equaliser against Germany would. 

In terms of a spectator sport hurling is probably more exciting to watch than football and I can understand Sweeney saying the hurling final was more enjoyable than the Ireland qualifier. Objectively speaking it was but his description of hurling being an art in comparison to the football was pretentious 'proper mans game' gah bollocks. 


Edited by irishmufc - 01 Feb 2021 at 10:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2021 at 10:52pm
The competition to be an elite footballer is far more onerous than to be an elite footballer.  A k knowledge of basic maths and logic would.tell you that.  



Good spot muf on the calling liverpool we ๐Ÿ˜€๐Ÿ˜€๐Ÿ˜€

You would wonder why sid even appears on this site when hurling, premier league football and the Russians and trump are far bigger interests of his than irish football. 




Edited by Baldrick - 01 Feb 2021 at 10:54pm
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