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Zinedine Kilbane 110 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zinedine Kilbane 110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2021 at 9:38pm
Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

I've not met a decent Israelis myself work with a few of them and they are ****s.

Socialized with a few of them in Oz too - arrogant miserable ****s they were.



Have to agree.
The ones I’ve met have all been miserable. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beavis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2021 at 10:24pm
Originally posted by TigerRoll TigerRoll wrote:

Originally posted by Beavis Beavis wrote:

Originally posted by TigerRoll TigerRoll wrote:

This has been going on for thousands of years in the region. The Arabs have always rejected the Jews wish for an independent state which came about in 1948 previous to that Great Britain controlled Palestine post WW1. After that there was a war with their Arab neighbours. The area is extremely complicated like much of the region, an example being both Palestine and Israel call Jerusalem their capital. Israel has been able to continue their violence as Hamas has also caused havoc in Israel for 10-15 years Hamas would send in suicide bombers to residential areas with children etc from 2000 to 2015-16. Now they’ve moved on to rockets.
It’s not a fair fight obviously, Israel is arguably for its size the best secret service in the world, and equipped just as well if not better compared to Great Britain. Israel is extremely friendly with the likes of the US etc which also helps their side of events of what’s happening in the region. Personally I’ve also felt it had similarities to Northern Ireland, complicated and most don’t really understand it or what Hamas for example are even fighting for.
Clearly it is you that do not understand. 

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt in terms of ignorance, because if it's not that, your morals (and sense of human decency) are completely f*cked. 

It’s not about morals. We for some reason want to completely forget the actions of Hamas over decades. Who are terrorists. That’s not a defence of the Israeli state but their is fault on both sides. Keep in mind Hamas aim is the eradication of Jews and liberation of Palestine, which isn’t going to be possible now. It’s become popular to #FreeGaza, no one cared 1000 years ago, or 100 or 200. Israel should of course face international pressure flr their actions in some aspects, but some of their action is self defence of their own people. That can’t be held against them either. There’s a reason their defence system is the most sophisticated on the planet. 

Whether you want to state explicitly or not, you're a supporter of Israel. The "fault on both sides" argument accounts to tacit support for Israel. This is how they want the narrative to go. While people throw there hands up and say "oh what can you do, they're both in it", the Israelis continue to rob - flat out, internationally-recognised, daily theft to the point where Palestine is an nonviable, unlivable shell. This suits nicely - they don't want a 1 state solution or proper 2 state - and perpetual war is the way to ensure this continues. 

Support for Israel is not just morally abhorrent, it's inherently racist - i.e. you believe one group of people has the right to prosper over another, simply because of their birth religion/race.

Palestinians have long surrendered, they sued for peace for years; more moderate parties were in place for the majority of the conflict. It got them nowhere. They are weak and desperate, and at least the rhetoric of Hamas gives them some pathetic sense of empowerment.



<insert witty comment>
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zizu Kilbane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2021 at 10:38pm
Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

I've not met a decent Israelis myself work with a few of them and they are ****s.

Socialized with a few of them in Oz too - arrogant miserable ****s they were.



Have to agree.
The ones I’ve met have all been miserable. 

You can't tar everyone with the same brush in fairness. Their government is full of ****s and there is a large number of religious extremists, but there are also many ordinary Israelis who are appalled at what's being done in their name as well.
"Sometimes, sh*t happens, someone's gotta deal with it, and who ya gonna call?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saint Tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 May 2021 at 10:38pm
Originally posted by TigerRoll TigerRoll wrote:

Originally posted by Beavis Beavis wrote:

Originally posted by TigerRoll TigerRoll wrote:

This has been going on for thousands of years in the region. The Arabs have always rejected the Jews wish for an independent state which came about in 1948 previous to that Great Britain controlled Palestine post WW1. After that there was a war with their Arab neighbours. The area is extremely complicated like much of the region, an example being both Palestine and Israel call Jerusalem their capital. Israel has been able to continue their violence as Hamas has also caused havoc in Israel for 10-15 years Hamas would send in suicide bombers to residential areas with children etc from 2000 to 2015-16. Now they’ve moved on to rockets.
It’s not a fair fight obviously, Israel is arguably for its size the best secret service in the world, and equipped just as well if not better compared to Great Britain. Israel is extremely friendly with the likes of the US etc which also helps their side of events of what’s happening in the region. Personally I’ve also felt it had similarities to Northern Ireland, complicated and most don’t really understand it or what Hamas for example are even fighting for.
Clearly it is you that do not understand. 

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt in terms of ignorance, because if it's not that, your morals (and sense of human decency) are completely f*cked. 

It’s not about morals. We for some reason want to completely forget the actions of Hamas over decades. Who are terrorists. That’s not a defence of the Israeli state but their is fault on both sides. Keep in mind Hamas aim is the eradication of Jews and liberation of Palestine, which isn’t going to be possible now. It’s become popular to #FreeGaza, no one cared 1000 years ago, or 100 or 200. Israel should of course face international pressure flr their actions in some aspects, but some of their action is self defence of their own people. That can’t be held against them either. There’s a reason their defence system is the most sophisticated on the planet. 

No one cared about what happened in the middle East a thousand years ago.... Something about a crusade????? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dalymount79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2021 at 7:52am
Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

I've not met a decent Israelis myself work with a few of them and they are ****s.

Socialized with a few of them in Oz too - arrogant miserable ****s they were.


I’m met some very decent Israelis in my time and was happy to spend time with them. Those in bigger groups tend to be younger and loader. Not unlike paddies in say Aus. Post army they seem to be on edge which can be understandable.
Arrogant - not much different to your average wealthy Arab nation citizen, Aussie or Dutch.

Generalisations eh.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2021 at 8:13am
Yeah I wouldn't be mad on them based on any interactions I've had with them. I'm fairly adventurous with my travel destinations but it's one country I've never had any interest in going to either,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2021 at 8:42am
Originally posted by Dalymount79 Dalymount79 wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

I've not met a decent Israelis myself work with a few of them and they are ****s.

Socialized with a few of them in Oz too - arrogant miserable ****s they were.


I’m met some very decent Israelis in my time and was happy to spend time with them. Those in bigger groups tend to be younger and loader. Not unlike paddies in say Aus. Post army they seem to be on edge which can be understandable.
Arrogant - not much different to your average wealthy Arab nation citizen, Aussie or Dutch.

Generalisations eh.



Generalization or not. I can only judge the people I have met socially and have worked with.
     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TigerRoll Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2021 at 9:12am
Originally posted by Beavis Beavis wrote:

Originally posted by TigerRoll TigerRoll wrote:

Originally posted by Beavis Beavis wrote:

Originally posted by TigerRoll TigerRoll wrote:

This has been going on for thousands of years in the region. The Arabs have always rejected the Jews wish for an independent state which came about in 1948 previous to that Great Britain controlled Palestine post WW1. After that there was a war with their Arab neighbours. The area is extremely complicated like much of the region, an example being both Palestine and Israel call Jerusalem their capital. Israel has been able to continue their violence as Hamas has also caused havoc in Israel for 10-15 years Hamas would send in suicide bombers to residential areas with children etc from 2000 to 2015-16. Now they’ve moved on to rockets.
It’s not a fair fight obviously, Israel is arguably for its size the best secret service in the world, and equipped just as well if not better compared to Great Britain. Israel is extremely friendly with the likes of the US etc which also helps their side of events of what’s happening in the region. Personally I’ve also felt it had similarities to Northern Ireland, complicated and most don’t really understand it or what Hamas for example are even fighting for.
Clearly it is you that do not understand. 

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt in terms of ignorance, because if it's not that, your morals (and sense of human decency) are completely f*cked. 

It’s not about morals. We for some reason want to completely forget the actions of Hamas over decades. Who are terrorists. That’s not a defence of the Israeli state but their is fault on both sides. Keep in mind Hamas aim is the eradication of Jews and liberation of Palestine, which isn’t going to be possible now. It’s become popular to #FreeGaza, no one cared 1000 years ago, or 100 or 200. Israel should of course face international pressure flr their actions in some aspects, but some of their action is self defence of their own people. That can’t be held against them either. There’s a reason their defence system is the most sophisticated on the planet. 

Whether you want to state explicitly or not, you're a supporter of Israel. The "fault on both sides" argument accounts to tacit support for Israel. This is how they want the narrative to go. While people throw there hands up and say "oh what can you do, they're both in it", the Israelis continue to rob - flat out, internationally-recognised, daily theft to the point where Palestine is an nonviable, unlivable shell. This suits nicely - they don't want a 1 state solution or proper 2 state - and perpetual war is the way to ensure this continues. 

Support for Israel is not just morally abhorrent, it's inherently racist - i.e. you believe one group of people has the right to prosper over another, simply because of their birth religion/race.

Palestinians have long surrendered, they sued for peace for years; more moderate parties were in place for the majority of the conflict. It got them nowhere. They are weak and desperate, and at least the rhetoric of Hamas gives them some pathetic sense of empowerment.


The narrative to go? Hamas killed a 6 year old this week with anti tank missile. They don’t need to say anything except the facts. Firing missiles into a city is careless, with the sole aim of killing and destruction. They’ve been at war multiple occasions now, recently being 2006. First being as I said earlier 1948. That’s longer than the Provisional IRA in Northern Ireland. In 1948 Israel was created to be a Arab/Jewish state at the UN Council, ironically it was the Arabs that invaded non settled Jewish areas to prevent that. Jews flocked to Israel in the 1920s-40s to flee the oppression often of Hitler, would you prefer they all stayed and died! The local Arabs couldn’t accept the Jews calls it was their ancestral home. Hamas also refuse to move on agreeing what a peace treaty could look like, as for them any Jews in the area is one jew too many. 
The day will come when Israel has had enough of watching rockets fly over Tel Aviv and they invade the Gaza Strip. As they’ve done in Lebanon previously. Israel has a democratically elected government, it is recognised by the UN, the capital being Jerusalem is recognised by the USA. Are all their actions perfect, absolutely not. But a few bad apples or actions isn’t the entire nation or army. Similar to the British Army, those individuals who opened fire in Ballymurphy/Derry don’t stand for the entire British army most of which would of been disgusted and outraged at those shootings and the time it’s taken for a verdict of innocent. 


Edited by TigerRoll - 14 May 2021 at 9:13am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claret Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2021 at 9:28am
As i keep saying Tiger is well read up on this issue .
 
I lived in Israel for 10 months saw things from both side now i know you don't get this but i would say most Jews want peace want to raise their children and so on .
 
The devide between rich and poor with Arabs and Jews is massive , now i have sat down and heard stories from Arabs also they have very good points and i do feel for them .
 
This will not end this year or the next century and everyone knows it .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MC Hammered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2021 at 10:00am

Irish people and Israelis are not generally culturally aligned. They are very forthright and speak their minds. We tend to be more concerned about how our message is received and soften our speech "Ah I'm grand thanks. Yes everything is fine thanks." 
We see this as being polite but other nationalities can be confused by us or even consider us two faced.
I met a heap of Israelis traveling and some of them were great folk. However, there was a higher than normal percentage of absolute w@nkers. I remember one of the sound ones explaining to me that he was going to complain in a restaurant in order to get us a discount. He thought I'd be delighted to save a few bob and was shocked when I had a pop at him. They seem happy enough with minor social conflict as part of their daily lives, its like its viewed as a debate more than a row. I'm not wired to deal with that personally. Life is too short. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darmack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2021 at 2:40pm
Happy Birthday Isreal 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2021 at 2:49pm
Anyone go there when Ireland played them back in the day? Connolly scored IIRC
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reddladd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2021 at 2:55pm
Clinton Morrison scored
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colemanY2K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2021 at 5:44pm
Met loads backpacking when younger. The lads were arrogant and aloof, the birds were the salt of the earth. All were just out of the army and traveling on non Israeli passports.

I fear for everyone over there that Israel's right wing strategy towards the Palestinians could cause a cataclysmic collapse of the state some day.

Many think that would never happen.... Well I remember in the noughties thinking Syria would be a cool place to travel to. It was peaceful and safe. I'd go visit the ancient cities and eat at the largest restaurant in the world in Damascus http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7435424.stm Some hope of that happening now. 


Edited by colemanY2K - 14 May 2021 at 5:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Beavis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2021 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by TigerRoll TigerRoll wrote:


The narrative to go? Hamas killed a 6 year old this week with anti tank missile. They don’t need to say anything except the facts. Firing missiles into a city is careless, with the sole aim of killing and destruction. They’ve been at war multiple occasions now, recently being 2006. First being as I said earlier 1948. That’s longer than the Provisional IRA in Northern Ireland. In 1948 Israel was created to be a Arab/Jewish state at the UN Council, ironically it was the Arabs that invaded non settled Jewish areas to prevent that. Jews flocked to Israel in the 1920s-40s to flee the oppression often of Hitler, would you prefer they all stayed and died! The local Arabs couldn’t accept the Jews calls it was their ancestral home. Hamas also refuse to move on agreeing what a peace treaty could look like, as for them any Jews in the area is one jew too many. 
The day will come when Israel has had enough of watching rockets fly over Tel Aviv and they invade the Gaza Strip. As they’ve done in Lebanon previously. Israel has a democratically elected government, it is recognised by the UN, the capital being Jerusalem is recognised by the USA. Are all their actions perfect, absolutely not. But a few bad apples or actions isn’t the entire nation or army. Similar to the British Army, those individuals who opened fire in Ballymurphy/Derry don’t stand for the entire British army most of which would of been disgusted and outraged at those shootings and the time it’s taken for a verdict of innocent. 

Anyway...I'm not debating this. Simply look at the facts - deaths, territory taken and civil rights. No argument. As I said, it's exactly as Israel/Zionism wants.
 
I'm embarrassed to hear Irish people parroting this nonsense (though your support for the British Army is a telling one.)

I'll just leave this hang like a bad fart:
Originally posted by TigerToll TigerToll wrote:

the capital being Jerusalem is recognised by the USA
Clap

Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Anyone go there when Ireland played them back in the day? Connolly scored IIRC

Ironically, myself and SaintTom. 

I thought it was Duffer that scored....after 4 or 5 mins I think. I was photoed with an Israeli soldier and showed up in the Herald. A proud day.

The mots were grand thoughCool

<insert witty comment>
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saint Tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 3:25pm
Good times Beavis, still possibly the best ireland trip I was on.

The Israeli right is so far out of line. There is literally no prospect of a peace deal for a generation. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sham157 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 3:50pm
Does anyone really think Israel have any intention of a peace deal or two state settlement. I certainly dont. I believe they will wipe the Palestinians out as the world looks on allowing them to ‘defend’ themselves as they bombard the open prison they have sealed off from the world, levelling high rise blocks of homes, hospitals. The US could potentially end this all by pulling them into line but the Palestinians dont matter to them nor serve any useful purpose. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claret Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by Sham157 Sham157 wrote:

Does anyone really think Israel have any intention of a peace deal or two state settlement. I certainly dont. I believe they will wipe the Palestinians out as the world looks on allowing them to ‘defend’ themselves as they bombard the open prison they have sealed off from the world, levelling high rise blocks of homes, hospitals. The US could potentially end this all by pulling them into line but the Palestinians dont matter to them nor serve any useful purpose. 

Bottom line ..................
There is over 20 Arab states in the world and one Jewish .

Where would you chosse to live is you were Jewish ? 

They had the choice in 1947 for the spilt where the Palestinians were given the best two parts of land but they wanted it all . 

Remeneber the Palestines were given back Gaza as part of the peace deal , now that worked well . 


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