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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 12:25pm
There are several obvious things you can do to negate Dublin's advantages

Take them out of Croke Park for league games and Leinster games - make them play in Parnell Park for the league and at away venues for Leinster games 

Even All-Ireland semis involving Dublin could be played in Cork or Thurles - yes there are premium ticket holders to think about but a way around that can be found

Reduce the number of substitutes back to three

Revamp the league structure -  a hierarchical Divisions 1 to 4 league structure favours Dublin and the other strong counties because they get regular ultra-competitive, high speed Division 1 football while the others counties get a diet of slower, less competitive football

Bring back the Division 1A, 1B, 2A and 2B format which was used for most of the 2000s - that way the gaps in terms of what standard of league football each team gets is not as wide


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 1:39pm
Originally posted by the_walls the_walls wrote:


Fully agree with all of that. Even if Cluxton is as boring as they come (and I have no idea if he is or not) it has no bearing on what winning the All Ireland "means" to him. If it meant as little as what clowns like that try to portray he wouldn't still be making the sacrifices required to play inter county football at the top level at 39 years of age. 

I think that the atmosphere at Mayo v Dublin games between both sets of fans (back in the good old days when we used to be able to go to football matches) is absolutely horrible. There is proper animosity there, both sets of fans as bad as each other, and it is entirely driven by social media.  

Its sad. There could often be an edge between fans, but this is a different level. Especially as its been a war for the decade. The games themselves often have that edge to them, and that feeds into the fans. But this has been an unbelievable rivalry, and Mayo have always stood out as being willing to make their presence felt, and are deeply unlucky not to have at least one all Ireland in their pocket, if not too.

Its also not helped by "Club 31" (sorry to use that phrase) members who have rolled in behind Mayo with a passion akin to what they might feel for their own county. But what subsidises their wish to see Mayo win, is their hatred of Dublin. The grudging respect for the 2011 win, which was genuine has given rise to this neo-anti Dublin spirit which encompasses a wide range of claims, and the modern idea that ("I'm pro-GAA" NOT Anti-Dublin). This of course, inflames online wars, and almost normalises animosity, even if those involved will be nowhere near the games, or actually has no real vested interest in the outcome, other than primal feelings, which are not drawn upon personal county lines.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Idiocy on social media will always get more attention than sense





I've always been amazed at how lazy thinking can be when it comes to inter-county GAA, especially from so-called anorak's or hardcore fans. And social media has just made it significantly worse.

The mark, as it was in the League in 2010 was a relatively good call, as it rewarded the majestic victory of a midfield 50/50 (at a time when an art form was being made of letting an opponent win it, and focus on forcing a free or a turnover (both skills and qualities in and of themselves). The current mark is nonsensical and disruptive. Bin it. The black card too. Simply punish cynicism more harshly. A first offence automatic yellow, second a red. No "benefit of the doubt" first time around, or one lick for free, just a straight yellow for what might be the on and only incident.

Also, I understand why there is no appetite for a B Competition. Hurling is different, insofar there are absolute wastelands around the country, and even at that, in the early days, the secondary competitions got very little interest or respect. Will counties want to put resources behind a subordinate cup when they are out of the AI? I'm dubious they will

And like I said in my post to The Walls, you can now dress being Anti-Dublin GAA up as being Pro-GAA.

It really is time for a change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by the_walls the_walls wrote:


Fully agree with all of that. Even if Cluxton is as boring as they come (and I have no idea if he is or not) it has no bearing on what winning the All Ireland "means" to him. If it meant as little as what clowns like that try to portray he wouldn't still be making the sacrifices required to play inter county football at the top level at 39 years of age. 

I think that the atmosphere at Mayo v Dublin games between both sets of fans (back in the good old days when we used to be able to go to football matches) is absolutely horrible. There is proper animosity there, both sets of fans as bad as each other, and it is entirely driven by social media.  

Its sad. There could often be an edge between fans, but this is a different level. Especially as its been a war for the decade. The games themselves often have that edge to them, and that feeds into the fans. But this has been an unbelievable rivalry, and Mayo have always stood out as being willing to make their presence felt, and are deeply unlucky not to have at least one all Ireland in their pocket, if not too.

Its also not helped by "Club 31" (sorry to use that phrase) members who have rolled in behind Mayo with a passion akin to what they might feel for their own county. But what subsidises their wish to see Mayo win, is their hatred of Dublin. The grudging respect for the 2011 win, which was genuine has given rise to this neo-anti Dublin spirit which encompasses a wide range of claims, and the modern idea that ("I'm pro-GAA" NOT Anti-Dublin). This of course, inflames online wars, and almost normalises animosity, even if those involved will be nowhere near the games, or actually has no real vested interest in the outcome, other than primal feelings, which are not drawn upon personal county lines.
Is there really that much animosity between Dublin and Mayo supporters though?

I mean in real life, not in these ludicrous Facebook groups

I only experienced any animosity from Mayo supporters once, after the 2016 All-Ireland replay

But I've certainly experienced animosity from Dublin supporters, one eejit on Hill 16 tried to reef me during the second half of the Donegal game in 2014 just because I pointed out that Dublin were being run ragged tactically, which was a statement of the bleedin' obvious

Had loads of great conversations with Mayo people after the other matches since 2006

I presume if you go looking for arseholes you'll find them

I'm not sure there's even as much animosity as there was between Kerry and Tyrone supporters in the 00s, that could get fairly needly, especially in '08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_walls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 4:33pm
There's plenty in my experience. The majority on both sides are grand and will happily chat to each other but there is large, shouty minority who are dog ignorant and sour the atmosphere. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MayoMark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 4:40pm
I do find that there is a sizeable portion of the Dublin following who get far more joy from others' misery than actually winning. Last year's semi final was absolutely dreadful with the abuse levelled at us in the Cusack.

But for all that we got plenty of commiserations, pats on the back etc after 2016 and 2017. Unfortunately Sid, I think the ridiculous FB and Twitter sh*te actually rubs off on a certain portion in real life. 
They finally did it man... They killed my f**kin' car...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_walls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 4:47pm
Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

I do find that there is a sizeable portion of the Dublin following who get far more joy from others' misery than actually winning. Last year's semi final was absolutely dreadful with the abuse levelled at us in the Cusack.

But for all that we got plenty of commiserations, pats on the back etc after 2016 and 2017. Unfortunately Sid, I think the ridiculous FB and Twitter sh*te actually rubs off on a certain portion in real life. 

That was actually unbelievable last year, I've never seen anything like that. In fairness though Mark, we do have a good few eejits of our own, they might not be as noticeable though because unfortunately we're on the losing side. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trigboy 10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 4:54pm
The Dublin fan has changed a lot in the last 20 years loads of idiots on the Hill and even the Cusack etc who haven’t got a clue now
One time i remember a Dublin player was down injured and some fool was shouting for the other team to put the ball out as if it was soccer. The late 90’s early 00’s was a great time on the Hill but some amount of bandwagoners have come along since.


Edited by Trigboy 10 - 22 Dec 2020 at 4:55pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 4:55pm
I'm surprised to hear of this nastiness. For all of the Dublin v Mayo finals I've been in the stand rather than on the hill and therefore sat with a number of Mayo people as well as Dubs. Has been nothing but friendly both ways.
I'm not doubting anybody else's experiences who have seen and heard differently - Just taken a bit aback at it. 
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sid waddell View Drop Down
Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 5:11pm
Originally posted by Trigboy 10 Trigboy 10 wrote:

The Dublin fan has changed a lot in the last 20 years loads of idiots on the Hill and even the Cusack etc who haven’t got a clue now
One time i remember a Dublin player was down injured and some fool was shouting for the other team to put the ball out as if it was soccer. The late 90’s early 00’s was a great time on the Hill but some amount of bandwagoners have come along since.
There has always been eejits on the Hill though and there has always been bandwagoners

The cider drinkers down beside the Nally stand always existed 

The pre-match drinkers at the canal down by Binn's bridge always existed

There was a riot during the 1984 All-Ireland semi-final

Somebody here recently referenced a Union Jack being burned at the Kildare replay in 1998, I remember that

I remember lads running onto the pitch at half time at the 2003 qualifier against Derry in Clones, wee weeing on the pitch

The Hill has got milder over the years if anything
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 5:14pm
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Trigboy 10 Trigboy 10 wrote:

The Dublin fan has changed a lot in the last 20 years loads of idiots on the Hill and even the Cusack etc who haven’t got a clue now
One time i remember a Dublin player was down injured and some fool was shouting for the other team to put the ball out as if it was soccer. The late 90’s early 00’s was a great time on the Hill but some amount of bandwagoners have come along since.
There has always been eejits on the Hill though and there has always been bandwagoners

The cider drinkers down beside the Nally stand always existed 

The pre-match drinkers at the canal down by Binn's bridge always existed

There was a riot during the 1984 All-Ireland semi-final

Somebody here recently referenced a Union Jack being burned at the Kildare replay in 1998, I remember that

I remember lads running onto the pitch at half time at the 2003 qualifier against Derry in Clones, wee weeing on the pitch

The Hill has got milder over the years if anything

And bandwagoners exist outside of Dublin also!
The Mayo women sat beside me for the 2016 final first game was asking which stand was the Hogan Stand !


Edited by Borussia - 22 Dec 2020 at 5:15pm
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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 5:28pm
Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Trigboy 10 Trigboy 10 wrote:

The Dublin fan has changed a lot in the last 20 years loads of idiots on the Hill and even the Cusack etc who haven’t got a clue now
One time i remember a Dublin player was down injured and some fool was shouting for the other team to put the ball out as if it was soccer. The late 90’s early 00’s was a great time on the Hill but some amount of bandwagoners have come along since.
There has always been eejits on the Hill though and there has always been bandwagoners

The cider drinkers down beside the Nally stand always existed 

The pre-match drinkers at the canal down by Binn's bridge always existed

There was a riot during the 1984 All-Ireland semi-final

Somebody here recently referenced a Union Jack being burned at the Kildare replay in 1998, I remember that

I remember lads running onto the pitch at half time at the 2003 qualifier against Derry in Clones, wee weeing on the pitch

The Hill has got milder over the years if anything

And bandwagoners exist outside of Dublin also!
The Mayo women sat beside me for the 2016 final first game was asking which stand was the Hogan Stand !
The reality is that probably a majority of the support that each county brings to a final are fair weather fans, or at least non-regular match goers - some non-regular match goers from the counties are proper GAA people who do good work in clubs


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Trigboy 10 Trigboy 10 wrote:

The Dublin fan has changed a lot in the last 20 years loads of idiots on the Hill and even the Cusack etc who haven’t got a clue now
One time i remember a Dublin player was down injured and some fool was shouting for the other team to put the ball out as if it was soccer. The late 90’s early 00’s was a great time on the Hill but some amount of bandwagoners have come along since.
There has always been eejits on the Hill though and there has always been bandwagoners

The cider drinkers down beside the Nally stand always existed 

The pre-match drinkers at the canal down by Binn's bridge always existed

There was a riot during the 1984 All-Ireland semi-final

Somebody here recently referenced a Union Jack being burned at the Kildare replay in 1998, I remember that

I remember lads running onto the pitch at half time at the 2003 qualifier against Derry in Clones, wee weeing on the pitch

The Hill has got milder over the years if anything

And bandwagoners exist outside of Dublin also!
The Mayo women sat beside me for the 2016 final first game was asking which stand was the Hogan Stand !
The reality is that probably a majority of the support that each county brings to a final are fair weather fans, or at least non-regular match goers - some non-regular match goers from the counties are proper GAA people who do good work in clubs



Ah sure I do know that. I was a bit annoyed that day as I knew a few people (Some Dubs but maybe more Mayo people) who would be good fans but had struggled to get tickets. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 5:53pm
Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Trigboy 10 Trigboy 10 wrote:

The Dublin fan has changed a lot in the last 20 years loads of idiots on the Hill and even the Cusack etc who haven’t got a clue now
One time i remember a Dublin player was down injured and some fool was shouting for the other team to put the ball out as if it was soccer. The late 90’s early 00’s was a great time on the Hill but some amount of bandwagoners have come along since.
There has always been eejits on the Hill though and there has always been bandwagoners

The cider drinkers down beside the Nally stand always existed 

The pre-match drinkers at the canal down by Binn's bridge always existed

There was a riot during the 1984 All-Ireland semi-final

Somebody here recently referenced a Union Jack being burned at the Kildare replay in 1998, I remember that

I remember lads running onto the pitch at half time at the 2003 qualifier against Derry in Clones, wee weeing on the pitch

The Hill has got milder over the years if anything

And bandwagoners exist outside of Dublin also!
The Mayo women sat beside me for the 2016 final first game was asking which stand was the Hogan Stand !
The reality is that probably a majority of the support that each county brings to a final are fair weather fans, or at least non-regular match goers - some non-regular match goers from the counties are proper GAA people who do good work in clubs



Ah sure I do know that. I was a bit annoyed that day as I knew a few people (Some Dubs but maybe more Mayo people) who would be good fans but had struggled to get tickets. 

I used to have a Parnell pass and just collected me final tickets on the Tuesday in 2011 and 2013 but I don't live in Dublin anymore so don't have the pass anymore
 
I struggled a lot in 2016 both matches and 2019 replay to get them, in each case I only got one around half an hour before throw in

2017 I didn't get one at all and watched the first half in the Clonliffe House, myself and a lad I got talking to during it decided we'd go up at half time and try and blag our way in - it worked - we sort of targeted two young lads at the gate who were clearly just on a nixer and pushed our way past them - then I legged it up the Cusack Stand ramp as fast as could and sat in the very back corner overlooking Hill 16 - had a great view of Keegan's goal

2015 and especially 2018 were easy to get tickets for, the 2019 draw wasn't too bad either

Dublin-Mayo is always harder to get tickets for than Dublin-Kerry 

Last Saturday the hardest of all to get tickets for

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_walls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 6:18pm
Yeah in fairness the final always brings out the bandwagoner. I've seen plenty of lads from Westport with tickets in the hand for all of our finals in the last few years who haven't ever darkened the door of MacHale Park. It's why I'd be in favour of expanding the season ticket scheme. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldbilly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 7:02pm
Dublin used to do a scheme where you got a stamp for every league game you attended that guaranteed championship tickets didn’t they? Maybe all counties should just reward the fans who attend most games? Be easy enough to put together and very fair.
I get a ticket now and again for the gaa but I’d give it to a fan who’d attend a lot, I’ve not been bothered with Gaelic football since the late nineties, it’s a totally different game now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MayoMark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 7:28pm
Originally posted by oldbilly oldbilly wrote:

Dublin used to do a scheme where you got a stamp for every league game you attended that guaranteed championship tickets didn’t they? Maybe all counties should just reward the fans who attend most games? Be easy enough to put together and very fair.
I get a ticket now and again for the gaa but I’d give it to a fan who’d attend a lot, I’ve not been bothered with Gaelic football since the late nineties, it’s a totally different game now.

There has been a Season Ticket since 2009 so this is already in place really 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eireland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2020 at 8:28pm
Down in munster anyway we were nearly all delighted outside kerry to see dublin Bridge a large gap. You'd always have a lot cheering for Dublin due to the large partisan crowd that added to the occasion. When Dublin started on their 3/4/5/6 in a row run people simply got sick of seeing the same team over and over again winning it. The leinster championship not even worth watching anymore. I used to cheer for Kilkenny as my second team as half the family are from there but I want nothing more then KK to lose now after they won so much and made the hurling boring for a few years.

On top of that there's the added dislike that dublin as a county received massive special treatment by the GAA not afforded to others. It's just natural lads. If any other county was in your position we'd want them to lose as well. Nothing personal.

On the hurling I'd noticed that Meath and Kildare hurlers were making progress. I can't for the life of me understand why the GAA when they came up with the save hurling in the capital plan, didn't extend it so wicklow, Kildare, Westmeath, Louth and Meath. Give them the exact same treatment and grow the sport in more then just dublin. The same should have applied to the likes of mayo, Antrim, down and kerry where there's already a respectable hurling presence. 
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