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Kevin Zefi |
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Banana_RepublicFC 
Liam Brady 
Joined: 29 Mar 2022 Status: Offline Points: 1511 |
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 Posted: 06 Jul 2023 at 3:10pm |
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Of the 23 players I have listed, the vast majority have become full internationals for their respective countries and are still playing football at a high level. That's all we want from Zefi. He doesn't have to make it at Inter. That's actually a very good return from Inter. To produce that many senior internationals. Cristiano Biraghi - 13 Italy caps Mame Thiam - 4 Senegal caps Alfred Duncan - 10 Ghana caps George Pușcaș - 36 Romania caps Ionuț Radu - 4 Romanaia caps Andreaw Gravillon - 11 Guadeloupe caps Federico Dimarco - 10 Italy caps Michele Di Gregorio - 0 caps Andrea Pinamonti - 1 Italy cap Nicolò Zaniolo - 13 Italy caps Zinho Vanheusden - 1 Belgium cap Salvatore Esposito - 1 Italy cap Martín Satriano - 1 Uruguay cap Eddie Salcedo - Italy U21 internatonal Sebastiano Esposito - 0 caps Lorenzo Priola - Italy U21 international Cesare Casadei - Golden Ball at recent U20 World Cup Franco Carboni - Argentina U20 international Wilfred Gnonto - 11 Italy Caps Valentín Carboni - Argentina U20 international If you back a little further, Inter produces other players such as Mattia Destro, Davide Santon and Mario Balotelli. All senior Italy Internationals. "Actually a very good return"? If someone said to you you had a 3% chance of success of something, you would regard that as a good chance? I think we have higher hopes for the likes of Zefi than that. [/QUOTE]
You're a bit delusional as to how professional works, bud. If Zefi makes it in any top 5 European league, we should be more than happy. Shay Given, Richard Dunne, Damien Duff and Robbie Keane played 49 Champions League games between them. Making it at a CL club is tough. If Zefi is a PL regular at Bournemouth in a few years, I'll take it.
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You Tell Me
Jack Charlton
Joined: 05 Sep 2010 Status: Offline Points: 6773 |
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Posted: 06 Jul 2023 at 3:04pm |
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Do we? To me he looks lightweight, technically proficient, but lacking in end product. His lack of progress through the youth system at Inter would be a concern also - I don't mean in terms of their first team or anything, but he wasn't exactly skipping through the underage age groups during his time there. Also one or two suggestions that his attitude might not be as good as you would want, but that bit is hearsay to be fair to him. I wouldn't rate him particularly higher than some of our other teenage prospects at this point to be honest (thinking Abankwah, Vata, Curtis, Melia here - and obviously Ferguson).
Edited by You Tell Me - 06 Jul 2023 at 3:05pm |
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Luis Amor Rodriguez
Liam Brady
Joined: 19 Sep 2016 Location: Harchester Status: Offline Points: 1664 |
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Posted: 06 Jul 2023 at 3:02pm |
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This is interesting. I'd say in a hypothetical world, 8 of those players from Man U's youth team would have been capped for Ireland at senior level already if eligible (saying the standard is roughly Championship). That's the kind of return you want and something United had under Ferguson, albeit in a different era. A large proportion of Irish lads who came through the Man U academy in the noughties became senior players for us: Marc Wilson, Paul McShane, Robbie Brady, Darron Gibson, later Will Keane. Whereas in the likes of Inter (or Bayern or AC Milan), the progression to a career from their youth teams is - as I pointed out by reference to the figures above - vanishingly slim.
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Luis Amor Rodriguez
Liam Brady
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Posted: 06 Jul 2023 at 2:55pm |
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I said 1% as a general estimate off the top of my head, but on the basis of the names you mention, it is relatively accurate. Assuming the names you mentioned above are all Inter Primavera graduates, the figure is closer to 2.9% for Serie A appearances. For players who graduate to appear in the senior inter team, it is 1% Either way, vanishingly slim prospects of a break-through when coming through these silo-type clubs. Incidentally, TransferMarkt says Zefi made only 6 appearances in the Primavera team this season gone. He would have been far better off playing men's football in Europe and the LOI for Rovers, where we've seen other young lads get opportunities, particularly at the end of games, similar to Melia and Curtis at other clubs. As regards Newcastle, at least they have the PL2/u23s which has proven to be an excellent stepping stone for Irish players in the past, including most of the new players brought in by Kenny. Or maybe the lad's not good enough, though given his rapid elevation through the Ireland youth set-up, which is a good standard internationally, you'd have to conclude there must be real talent there. [[Calculations below: In any given year, the Primavera squad has 53 players, see: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/inter-mailand-u19/kader/verein/5380 ; Over 13 years, you've identified 20 players to have a career in Serie A. 20/(53 x13) x 100 = 2.9% Over 13 years, you've identified 8 players to have a career at Inter. 8/(53 x13) x 100 = 1.2%]] Of the 23 players I have listed, the vast majority have become full internationals for their respective countries and are still playing football at a high level. That's all we want from Zefi. He doesn't have to make it at Inter. That's actually a very good return from Inter. To produce that many senior internationals. Cristiano Biraghi - 13 Italy caps Mame Thiam - 4 Senegal caps Alfred Duncan - 10 Ghana caps George Pușcaș - 36 Romania caps Ionuț Radu - 4 Romanaia caps Andreaw Gravillon - 11 Guadeloupe caps Federico Dimarco - 10 Italy caps Michele Di Gregorio - 0 caps Andrea Pinamonti - 1 Italy cap Nicolò Zaniolo - 13 Italy caps Zinho Vanheusden - 1 Belgium cap Salvatore Esposito - 1 Italy cap Martín Satriano - 1 Uruguay cap Eddie Salcedo - Italy U21 internatonal Sebastiano Esposito - 0 caps Lorenzo Priola - Italy U21 international Cesare Casadei - Golden Ball at recent U20 World Cup Franco Carboni - Argentina U20 international Wilfred Gnonto - 11 Italy Caps Valentín Carboni - Argentina U20 international If you back a little further, Inter produces other players such as Mattia Destro, Davide Santon and Mario Balotelli. All senior Italy Internationals. "Actually a very good return"? If someone said to you you had a 3% chance of success of something, you would regard that as a good chance? I think we have higher hopes for the likes of Zefi than that.
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Paulie
Liam Brady
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Posted: 06 Jul 2023 at 12:50pm |
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"Just like the drink, only not spelt the same." |
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John Nice
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 06 Jul 2023 at 11:14am |
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Lecce U19 (who Ed Mc Jannet played for) actually won the Primavera this year. I dont think the traditional "big" clubs in Italy did particularly well - Juve were 5th, Inter 7th, AC 12th and Napoli 16th in an 18 team League. Udinese were 17th. I dont think Zefi featured regularly for Inter either.
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Idah Dream!
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Banana_RepublicFC
Liam Brady
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Posted: 06 Jul 2023 at 11:03am |
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That's the nature of professional football. There are about 5,000 professional footballers in England. You have to be elite to make it as a pro, never mind for one of the biggest clubs. It's difficult. Take the 2011 United FAYC winning team. Starting XI: GK - Sam Johnston - Currently plays for Crystal Palace (Premier League) LB - Sean McGinty - Currently plays for Ayr United (Scottish Championship) CB - Michele Fornasier - Currently plays for Monopoli (Serie C) CB - Tom Thorpe - Came out of a 5 year retirement in February to sign for Macclesfield (NPL Division One West) RB - Michael Keane - Currently plays for Everton (Premier League) CM - Ryan Tunnicliffe - Currently plays for Portsmouth (League One) CM - Paul Pogba - Currently plays for Juventus (Serie A) LW - Van Velzen - Currently plays for Peyia 2014 (Cypriot Second Division) AM - Ravel Morrison - Currently plays for D.C. United (MLS) RW - Jesse Lingard - Currently a free agent ST - Will Keane - Currently plays for Wigan (League One) Subs: RW - Larnell Cole- Currently plays for Warrington Town (NPL Premier Division) LB - Tyler Blackett - Currently plays for Rotherham (Championship) ST - John Cofie - Retired at the age of 27 in 2020 |
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You Tell Me
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 06 Jul 2023 at 10:33am |
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It does feel like some of the bigger English teams are now developing pathways for players outside of their own first teams at least though. Like Bazunu at City - was never going to play for their first team but they developed him well through their Under 23s and then with two suitable loans which benefitted both the player (loads of first team football) and the club (huge profit on the subsequent player sale). I don't know that AC or Inter Milan have that level of structure built in to their youth setup at this point.
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TheNumber6
Kevin Kilbane 
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Posted: 06 Jul 2023 at 10:24am |
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True - but there’s not even an u23 league in Italy!
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The Huntacha
Roy Keane
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Posted: 06 Jul 2023 at 10:23am |
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You could say the same about England though. Much more of a chance breaking through at a mid-to-low PL team than going to one of the top 6/7 and expecting a pathway there.
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TheNumber6
Kevin Kilbane
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Posted: 06 Jul 2023 at 10:20am |
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The problem with Italy is the Primavera (their youth league) is all over the place. There’s a litany of examples where players have gone to the traditional Italian powerhouses and fallen completely away from the game after it. It’s much better to go to a Udinese or the sorts where there’s an actionable road to the first team.
I’d be as confident as anything that Heffernan won’t ever play first team at Milan but as long as there’s an awareness in his camp that once you get close to surpassing u19 level , there really isn’t anything there for you!
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Trap junior
Robbie Keane
YBIG Minister of Doom & Gloom Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Location: Irish Riviera Status: Online Points: 39858 |
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Posted: 06 Jul 2023 at 10:04am |
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Is this not the wunderkid who was scoring in nearly every game for their youth teams?
Has he disappeared into Kevin Zephyr?
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Pied Piper to: Baldrick, Brendan 88, 9Fingers, Borussia and more...
97.6% chance this post will be replied to by Baldrick (source: PWC) |
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John Nice
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 06 Jul 2023 at 9:28am |
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Agreed re gametime @ Rovers. Having watched him first hand at the last U19 tournament, it's clear he still has an awful lot of development work to do, both physical and mental if he is to have any kind of senior career. I dont think he would be getting game time at senior level anywhere right now, he's not sturdy enough yet for senior football and he'd be mashed trying out some of his trickery at senior level. He needs to learn to move the ball on quickly. He clearly is a very skilful player with a fair bit of pace, but his decision making is/was dreadful. He is not playing in a schoolyard any more. Newcastle would be fine, but if he goes there (or anywhere), people shouldnt expect to see or hear of him again for a year or two. There is plenty to work on.
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Idah Dream!
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Banana_RepublicFC
Liam Brady
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Posted: 06 Jul 2023 at 9:27am |
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Of the 23 players I have listed, the vast majority have become full internationals for their respective countries and are still playing football at a high level. That's all we want from Zefi. He doesn't have to make it at Inter. That's actually a very good return from Inter. To produce that many senior internationals. Cristiano Biraghi - 13 Italy caps Mame Thiam - 4 Senegal caps Alfred Duncan - 10 Ghana caps George Pușcaș - 36 Romania caps Ionuț Radu - 4 Romanaia caps Andreaw Gravillon - 11 Guadeloupe caps Federico Dimarco - 10 Italy caps Michele Di Gregorio - 0 caps Andrea Pinamonti - 1 Italy cap Nicolò Zaniolo - 13 Italy caps Zinho Vanheusden - 1 Belgium cap Salvatore Esposito - 1 Italy cap Martín Satriano - 1 Uruguay cap Eddie Salcedo - Italy U21 internatonal Sebastiano Esposito - 0 caps Lorenzo Priola - Italy U21 international Cesare Casadei - Golden Ball at recent U20 World Cup Franco Carboni - Argentina U20 international Wilfred Gnonto - 11 Italy Caps Valentín Carboni - Argentina U20 international If you back a little further, Inter produces other players such as Mattia Destro, Davide Santon and Mario Balotelli. All senior Italy Internationals. |
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kevin100
Ray Houghton
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Posted: 05 Jul 2023 at 11:24pm |
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How many 2004 born Irish players started for a top flight team last year? Evan Ferguson the only other one. He was on the bench every game/ has an established squad number etc. How many other players. Hes only left St Pats a year and has made some big steps. Yes he went from a regular starter at a relegated Championship club/to be League 1 club to a Serie A club. Massive step up (I suppose you will tell me the Championship is superior next) and has been gradually introduced. Kenny basically confirmed he was due to be in the senior squad for the June games but got injured. Zef/Heffernan are 17yo kids. As if 17yo kids are playing senior football for Champions League PL/Serie A clubs. It’s 2023 football has gone global every country in Europe has players that operate and go all over Europe for top level football the Top 8 Leagues in Europe factually gives more youngsters chances than PL clubs. But the ignorant Englander Irish fan tells me it’s a deluded notion. Pull the other one.
Edited by kevin100 - 05 Jul 2023 at 11:26pm |
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SeanC
Kevin Kilbane
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Posted: 05 Jul 2023 at 10:42pm |
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Let’s see where Abankwah ends up, one Snr start. Festy was seasoned starter with Derby and was a bit part in Italy last year. We all followed him and saw that. I’m happy to stick with it being delusional. How many will get regular game time at continental clubs and play for Irish senior team will be ultimate test. I think Festy was actually in an extended squad before going to Italy but is back in under 21s since🙈
Edited by SeanC - 05 Jul 2023 at 10:44pm |
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CillDara
Davey Langan 
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Posted: 05 Jul 2023 at 9:09pm |
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I don't think Zefi would have seen that much gametime for Rovers if he had of stayed, maybe a similar level to Ferizaj but Rovers don't even play with wingers. Who knows at the end of the day. There is no 'right way' that we know of in player development yet, our players have come through different routes and gone different paths. One thing that seems fairly straightforward however is the need for gametime before a player hits their 20s. Our lads who have stayed playing academy football until 21 or 22 have not fared well.
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Luis Amor Rodriguez
Liam Brady
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Posted: 05 Jul 2023 at 7:54pm |
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I said 1% as a general estimate off the top of my head, but on the basis of the names you mention, it is relatively accurate. Assuming the names you mentioned above are all Inter Primavera graduates, the figure is closer to 2.9% for Serie A appearances. For players who graduate to appear in the senior inter team, it is 1% Either way, vanishingly slim prospects of a break-through when coming through these silo-type clubs. Incidentally, TransferMarkt says Zefi made only 6 appearances in the Primavera team this season gone. He would have been far better off playing men's football in Europe and the LOI for Rovers, where we've seen other young lads get opportunities, particularly at the end of games, similar to Melia and Curtis at other clubs. As regards Newcastle, at least they have the PL2/u23s which has proven to be an excellent stepping stone for Irish players in the past, including most of the new players brought in by Kenny. Or maybe the lad's not good enough, though given his rapid elevation through the Ireland youth set-up, which is a good standard internationally, you'd have to conclude there must be real talent there. [[Calculations below: In any given year, the Primavera squad has 53 players, see: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/inter-mailand-u19/kader/verein/5380 ; Over 13 years, you've identified 20 players to have a career in Serie A. 20/(53 x13) x 100 = 2.9% Over 13 years, you've identified 8 players to have a career at Inter. 8/(53 x13) x 100 = 1.2%]] Edited by Luis Amor Rodriguez - 05 Jul 2023 at 8:08pm |
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Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote: