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Next Ireland Manager - Criteria

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Poll Question: Which category below will the new manager likely come from?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 8:19am
Kenny came in and tried to replicate with Read Madrid were doing with players playing in L1.
It was far across the sea,
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He wouldn't set me free,
So he kept me soul for ransom.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MC Hammered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 8:31am

Real Madrid are flexible enough tactically. They can dominate the ball when required but they are also happy to absorb pressure and hit on the break. What similarities do you see between them and Kennys Ireland?

If you’re saying that you trying to keep the ball and build from the back is some sort of unrealistic utopian ideal then turn on League 1 and watch most of the teams play. They are not Real Madrid either. There’s a reason why modern teams do this. Fail to evolve and you become extinct. Unfortunately we are behind the curve and have a lot of catching up to do. Given the resistance there is to change, I think we are fooked. I hate the lack of ambition for football in this country 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 8:40am
Trying to replicate Real Madrid when you don't have technically proficient players is not going to work. It's going to fail. It's not a lack of ambition it's more about taking a pragmatic approach with the players you have available,

A starting point is getting organised at he back and becoming difficult to beat and building the team from there. 

We are too easy to beat, Kenny on record said he's not concerned with the fact that we have conceded sloppy goals from outside the box, I think we conceded 5. Which ended up with Ireland losing those games.

I also don't think Kenny is able to communicate his game plan effectively to the players either. Just a hunch.

Terzino and Bundy's posts are spot on.


Edited by horsebox - 22 Nov 2022 at 8:40am
It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me,
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So he kept me soul for ransom.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GaretFarellysNutSack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 9:19am
Even Bohs and LOI teams keep the ball though, what we were doing pre SK could not continue. I fear the FAI will hire Houghton and whatever little progress we've made in our style of play will have been in vain. 
On the other hand I think the national team is doomed at this stage, I can't see a way out with the state of our own league (yes I go to games as a proud Friday night merchant) and lack of facilities and talent. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MC Hammered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 9:35am
Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Trying to replicate Real Madrid when you don't have technically proficient players is not going to work. It's going to fail. It's not a lack of ambition it's more about taking a pragmatic approach with the players you have available,

A starting point is getting organised at he back and becoming difficult to beat and building the team from there. 

We are too easy to beat, Kenny on record said he's not concerned with the fact that we have conceded sloppy goals from outside the box, I think we conceded 5. Which ended up with Ireland losing those games.

I also don't think Kenny is able to communicate his game plan effectively to the players either. Just a hunch.

Terzino and Bundy's posts are spot on.

You're picking Real Madrid rather than Ipswich or Sheffield Wednesday for a reason though. Its reductive. "Don't even bother trying, we're just inferior" is the message. 
Everyone is technical these days. There is not going to be a successful return to the style of Irish teams gone by. 
Our players are going to return to their clubs where, mostly, they will knock the ball about pretty well.

This isn't an argument in favour of keeping Kenny. But this was always my fear when he was appointed. He wouldnt be successful and the fans and administration would abandon any progressive notions we had. 
If Kenny isnt the right man and theres a better attainable alternative then grand, lets appoint him. But we can't go back to packing our defence with no intent to commit bodies forward except for set pieces. 



Edited by MC Hammered - 22 Nov 2022 at 9:35am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 9:59am
It was Kenny that picked Real Madrid and trying to replicate what they are doing. This is what he spoke about in one of the calls.
It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me,
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So he kept me soul for ransom.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 10:00am
Originally posted by GaretFarellysNutSack GaretFarellysNutSack wrote:

Even Bohs and LOI teams keep the ball though, what we were doing pre SK could not continue. I fear the FAI will hire Houghton and whatever little progress we've made in our style of play will have been in vain. 
On the other hand I think the national team is doomed at this stage, I can't see a way out with the state of our own league (yes I go to games as a proud Friday night merchant) and lack of facilities and talent. 

I think people massively overestimate the importance of a link between the domestic league and the national team. The top end of the League of Ireland is the equivalent of League 2 in England. Mid table would be equivalent to the National League and, in all honesty, the bottom of the league is probably equivalent to the National League North/South.

The Ireland senior team almost never calls up players from League 2 in England, never mind non-league, and I have no idea when was the last time a League 2 player actually played for us in a competitive game. So there really doesn't need to and shouldn't be any direct link between the LoI and the national senior team.

The domestic league is what it is, it provides opportunities for players to play as full time professionals in Ireland and regularly contributes to underage squads. The better players outgrow it and move on, and always will. There is/was also an under 23 team where domestic based players could stay in the national setup to some extent after Under 21s. Better facilities for spectators are absolutely needed, but the product on the pitch isn't going to change much from what is there now. What it does well in particular is it offers senior football opportunities to developing players at a reasonable standard at a young age, which is a very good thing.

Every now and then a player will emerge from the league and go on and be good enough to play for the senior team - like Fahey, Hoolihan and McGrath. But realistically they'll have to prove themselves at a higher level before they get the chance. Just as John Egan had to move up the divisions in England before he got into the Ireland team.

What we have at the moment is a senior team of mostly Championship level players, with a few Premier League players thrown in. But they're managed by a League 2/National League standard manager. It makes no sense and we probably shouldn't be surprised that it hasn't worked. I think once people accept that the domestic league and the senior team are two completely separate entities that don't need to have any direct relationship with each other it will be better for both the team and the League.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MC Hammered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 10:10am
Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

It was Kenny that picked Real Madrid and trying to replicate what they are doing. This is what he spoke about in one of the calls.

Fair enough. I didnt know that. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 10:46am
I've said this about Kenny before. There's no doubting he has good ideas and great intentions but I fear he juat hasnt the resence or commanding personality to implement it.  He may be a bit naive.

For all his nice football with Dundalk in the 2016 Europa League they were not gettin results.  Kennys teams just dont seem to get the job done even after good performances.

And lads dont be voming back quoting Azerbaijan and Malta at me. They are the worst teams in Europe.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SeaSharp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 11:11am
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

I've said this about Kenny before. There's no doubting he has good ideas and great intentions but I fear he juat hasnt the resence or commanding personality to implement it.  He may be a bit naive.

For all his nice football with Dundalk in the 2016 Europa League they were not gettin results.  Kennys teams just dont seem to get the job done even after good performances.

And lads dont be voming back quoting Azerbaijan and Malta at me. They are the worst teams in Europe.
In Kenny's defence, a club like Dundalk would never be expected to get results in the Europa League. To have qualified and put in a few good performances like they did was a really good achievement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fozz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

I've said this about Kenny before. There's no doubting he has good ideas and great intentions but I fear he juat hasnt the resence or commanding personality to implement it.  He may be a bit naive.

For all his nice football with Dundalk in the 2016 Europa League they were not gettin results.  Kennys teams just dont seem to get the job done even after good performances.

And lads dont be voming back quoting Azerbaijan and Malta at me. They are the worst teams in Europe.

Which adds more credence to the theory that the coaches (Barry especially) were key.
Maybe he'll have a key new coach for March and we'll be far better?


Edited by Fozz - 22 Nov 2022 at 3:59pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by Fozz Fozz wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

I've said this about Kenny before. There's no doubting he has good ideas and great intentions but I fear he juat hasnt the resence or commanding personality to implement it.  He may be a bit naive.

For all his nice football with Dundalk in the 2016 Europa League they were not gettin results.  Kennys teams just dont seem to get the job done even after good performances.

And lads dont be voming back quoting Azerbaijan and Malta at me. They are the worst teams in Europe.

Which adds more credence to the throry that the coaches (BVarry especially) were key.
Maybe he'll have a key new coach for March and we'll be far better?

Who of that standard would come into this sinking ship though? Anyone can see they'd be out in under a year with a sacking on their CV. It's notable that the role has been vacant for months since the last lad left for Birmingham.


Edited by You Tell Me - 22 Nov 2022 at 12:15pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 12:15pm
Originally posted by SeaSharp SeaSharp wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

I've said this about Kenny before. There's no doubting he has good ideas and great intentions but I fear he juat hasnt the resence or commanding personality to implement it.  He may be a bit naive.

For all his nice football with Dundalk in the 2016 Europa League they were not gettin results.  Kennys teams just dont seem to get the job done even after good performances.

And lads dont be voming back quoting Azerbaijan and Malta at me. They are the worst teams in Europe.
In Kenny's defence, a club like Dundalk would never be expected to get results in the Europa League. To have qualified and put in a few good performances like they did was a really good achievement.


Meh. Some of the games were there for them and the opportunity passed them by.  No ruthless streak in his sides.

And if the likes of Dundalk the best side the LOI has produced in donkeys and donkeys years has no hope of competing in a poor standard Europa League then why in the name of God would we need a manager who has any interest in the LOI?!  If its so substandard that merely not disgracing yourself in Europe is seen as an achievement how in the name of God are we supposed to compete at international level scouting and picking players from said league!? 

The LOI is and never will be a league of any decent level that we can draw players from even if attendances quadrupled.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stickittotheman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 7:31pm
Any criteria must be based on a track record of achieving success or relative success with limited resources. Chris Hughton gets some amount of criticism on here which is frankly embarrassing considering the state we find ourselves in. There is no doubt in my mind he would do a very solid job. Genuinely he is the only one I see that is available and likely to take the job. A left field choice might be someone like Vladamir Petkovic who is available. Bottom line is Kenny has a pathetic record so anyone defending him hasn't a leg to stand on criticising anyone else.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B6 6HE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 9:01pm
Originally posted by Stickittotheman Stickittotheman wrote:

Any criteria must be based on a track record of achieving success or relative success with limited resources. Chris Hughton gets some amount of criticism on here which is frankly embarrassing considering the state we find ourselves in. There is no doubt in my mind he would do a very solid job. Genuinely he is the only one I see that is available and likely to take the job. A left field choice might be someone like Vladamir Petkovic who is available. Bottom line is Kenny has a pathetic record so anyone defending him hasn't a leg to stand on criticising anyone else.


The stick Hughton gets is flabbergasting

Hughton
Wilder
Even Bruce. The Kennian cult will deride all of the above.

All available. Careers at a point where we are attractive option. We can't actually get worse. Plus, they like have a free hit at euro play offs thru NL.




Edited by B6 6HE - 22 Nov 2022 at 9:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 50%lesssugar&salt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 9:33pm
I think Bruce or Hughton would be regressive appointments.

Wilder on the other hand could be a very good fit. 


Edited by 50%lesssugar&salt - 22 Nov 2022 at 9:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B6 6HE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 9:36pm
Originally posted by 50%lesssugar&salt 50%lesssugar&salt wrote:

I think Bruce or Hughton would be regressive appointments.

Wilder on the other hand could be a very good fit. 

Roadie Collins or Pat Fenton would be regressive. 

They Kennys contemporaries. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doherty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 10:46pm
Wilder or Bruce wouldnt go near it anyway. They are waiting forntheir next Championship job to come around on the wheel. And it will.come round. Personally wouldn't want either anyway.
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