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Tom Cannon

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 10:50am
Originally posted by Realrover Realrover wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

I agree rules are rules.  And the rule is if you have a grandparent born in Ireland you can play for Ireland.  Those are the rules so accept them as rules are rules after all 😀


I'm aware of the rules, the point of this discussion is their abuse, a point you seem to conveniently ignore. 

You asked me to codify the rules and I answered. I was hoping for a worthy or educational rebuke but I guess you didn't have any.

Fact is granny rulers are filled with people who don't value an Irish cap, see Ireland as a plan B (or C or D) or merely see Ireland as a way to raise their stock by being an international player, not the attitude I'd want near the team especially at the expense of someone homegrown. FAI abuse the rules by constantly picking these players as well, to the detriment of the team in the long run. 

At the very least there should be a limit to the amount of granny rulers you can have in a squad so countries like Ireland will be forced to produce their own players. It's all quite pathetic really. It has given us a real lack of belief and inferiority complex, among other things. Alas, you seem ok with Ireland being filled with a load of mercenaries with tenuous affinities and links to the country and who don't really care about playing for Ireland in the hope we'll be that little bit better, may as well laugh like a clown so.

What is to stop a player whose parents are born in Ireland to “abuse” the rules as you say under your rules.  

It’s funny that you say rules are rules I.e the players would
Just have to accept them (under your system). But you are not prepared to do the same and accept the current rules.  Double standards.  

The rules currently in place are the same for every nation are also aligned with our rules around citizenship.   If you change the rules it will change for every nation and it will also mean they are not aligned with citizenship.  I.e. a person could get an Irish passport and be an Irish citizen but couldn’t play for Ireland under your rules as they wouldn’t be deemed Irish enough for you. Not a very clever situation to have.   You are just coming across as an angry man shouting at a cloud to be honest just because a few players game the situation for their own benefit.  Also you are putting words in my mouth.  You use the word mercenaries and you are of the view the team is full of mercenaries.  That’s not my view so you associating your view of the world with me is a classic straw man tactic.  


Edited by Baldrick - 05 Jan 2024 at 10:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 10 Box Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 11:33am
Originally posted by The Huntacha The Huntacha wrote:

A stronger manager personality wise or a manager who is in a better position than Kenny was might close the door on Cannon and tell him to let him know when he decides.

Kenny’s constant need for a good news story left him unable to do that.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 10 Box Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 11:35am
Think most people will agree come March he will have had more than enough time to make a decision. Should be a straight Yes or No & take it from there. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 11:44am
I reckon the next update from Cannon will be that he's concentrating on this club career (he will get a chance to play in the EPL and may end up getting an England call).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MC Hammered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 11:45am
Originally posted by 10 Box 10 Box wrote:

Think most people will agree come March he will have had more than enough time to make a decision. Should be a straight Yes or No & take it from there. 

I would find that approach quite refreshing. 
If we have a new manager before February, I'd love to see this rolled out:

"Hi Tom, We really like the look of you and would like to get you involved in March. Take a couple of weeks to think about whether you want to play for us and let us know by X date as we'll be naming the squad a week or two later. If you're not sure or would prefer to hold off on a decision then thats no problem but I wont be in a position to consider you for selection in my tenure as I need to forward plan to build a squad with committed players. If you want to have a chat to discuss then I'm more than happy to accommodate but lets do it sooner rather than later. "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 10 Box Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by MC Hammered MC Hammered wrote:

Originally posted by 10 Box 10 Box wrote:

Think most people will agree come March he will have had more than enough time to make a decision. Should be a straight Yes or No & take it from there. 

I would find that approach quite refreshing. 
If we have a new manager before February, I'd love to see this rolled out:

"Hi Tom, We really like the look of you and would like to get you involved in March. Take a couple of weeks to think about whether you want to play for us and let us know by X date as we'll be naming the squad a week or two later. If you're not sure or would prefer to hold off on a decision then thats no problem but I wont be in a position to consider you for selection in my tenure as I need to forward plan to build a squad with committed players. If you want to have a chat to discuss then I'm more than happy to accommodate but lets do it sooner rather than later. "

Exactly Thumbs Up would be great if he stayed with us but should not be given any longer to make the decision.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 12:59pm
I'm sure most of us don't just support Ireland, we support our club teams as well. But my support for Ireland is very different from my support for my club. I couldn't care less about the national backgrounds of the club players. But I want the Ireland team to actually reflect something about our country. So I want the players to have a sincere prior connection with Ireland, in whatever form that takes, if at all possible.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 1:35pm
Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

I'm sure most of us don't just support Ireland, we support our club teams as well. But my support for Ireland is very different from my support for my club. I couldn't care less about the national backgrounds of the club players. But I want the Ireland team to actually reflect something about our country. So I want the players to have a sincere prior connection with Ireland, in whatever form that takes, if at all possible.

I'd imagine you'll be devastated by Finn Azaz playing for us given his background then. It's hard to believe that in this day and age we're still wrestling with all of this blood purity sh*te when it comes to our national team, but then again there always has been a weird amount of derision towards the diaspora.


Edited by The O'Shea - 05 Jan 2024 at 1:36pm
We're decent enough..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fruice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 1:36pm
Jesus lads there is some fierce philosophical argument’s going on here.

The rules are the rules it’s a as simple as that every nation is governed by the same set of rules,

We like every nation should use them to the best of our advantage anything other than this is pie in the sky.

We should of course with our limited playing pool be exploiting every option available to us.


Edited by Fruice - 05 Jan 2024 at 1:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SeaSharp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

I'm sure most of us don't just support Ireland, we support our club teams as well. But my support for Ireland is very different from my support for my club. I couldn't care less about the national backgrounds of the club players. But I want the Ireland team to actually reflect something about our country. So I want the players to have a sincere prior connection with Ireland, in whatever form that takes, if at all possible.

I'd imagine you'll be devastated by Finn Azaz playing for us given his background then. It's hard to believe that in this day and age we're still wrestling with all of this blood purity sh*te when it comes to our national team, but then again there always has been a weird amount of derision towards the diaspora.
In fairness, Azaz having Israeli heritage doesn't preclude him from having a sincere connection to Ireland. I kinda get what TOFT is saying. It'd be pretty depressing if we'd a squad filled with England rejects who were just using us a way to rack up a few international caps. It's nice that we have lads, even ones from the diaspora, who have sincere connections and represent us with a sense of national pride. I say this as a member of the diaspora myself, fwiw.


Edited by SeaSharp - 05 Jan 2024 at 1:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

Imagine being offered a job and you leave them hanging for over a year. 

I like the granny rule and I'm fine if a player asks "can you give me a bit of time to mull things over'. But a bit of time should be like a month or two max to talk it over with the family. If by the next window they are still saying they are not sure then leave them to it. Let them come begging to you later on rather than chasing them down.
I'd even come out publicly as a manager and say "The player has said he hasn't made up his mind so im closing the door on that one, we have other players who want to play for us. The door is not locked but it will be up to player if he wants to come back and ask us to reconsider him again'. 

Sums it up well for me, leeway both ways. 

Spot on. Exactly how it should should be put by the next manager by leaving the door open without making us look needy and puts the onus on the player not to string us along. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 1:51pm
Wasn't there a bit of an issue before with the under age teams whereby the English lads were preferred over home grown Irish players to try and prevent them from switching.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t_rAndy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 2:34pm
Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

I reckon the next update from Cannon will be that he's concentrating on this club career (he will get a chance to play in the EPL and may end up getting an England call).

Which is the influence coming from the agent no doubt. "Look at Grealish and Rice, 100m players within a a few years of switching to England". 

This would be the situation where you tell them right it's the last time we are asking you. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Cockade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 2:36pm
Professional footballers are all mercenaries. I do not blame them for that. It’s a short career where you have to maximise your opportunities before it’s all over. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to for instance extol the performances of Mikey Johnston for Ireland if you’re annoyed about him taking years to declare in the first place. Or lament the defections of Rice and Grealish if you weren’t happy about their selection in squads ahead of Ireland born players. Whatever their motives or mindsets, professional players want to play well when they’re on the field and it really is down to putting out the best team possible under the rules that pertain at any given time.

Edited by Green Cockade - 05 Jan 2024 at 2:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Banjaxed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 2:38pm
Tom Cannon. Deary me. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 2:58pm
Originally posted by Green Cockade Green Cockade wrote:

Professional footballers are all mercenaries. I do not blame them for that. It’s a short career where you have to maximise your opportunities before it’s all over. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to for instance extol the performances of Mikey Johnston for Ireland if you’re annoyed about him taking years to declare in the first place. Or lament the defections of Rice and Grealish if you weren’t happy about their selection in squads ahead of Ireland born players. Whatever their motives or mindsets, professional players want to play well when they’re on the field and it really is down to putting out the best team possible under the rules that pertain at any given time.

Wouldn't agree with that at all.

I think a lot of it is agent driven. If they were all mercenaries, they would be engineering moves to SA.


It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me,
He wouldn't set me free,
So he kept me soul for ransom.
na na na na na na na na na
na na na na na na na na.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

I'm sure most of us don't just support Ireland, we support our club teams as well. But my support for Ireland is very different from my support for my club. I couldn't care less about the national backgrounds of the club players. But I want the Ireland team to actually reflect something about our country. So I want the players to have a sincere prior connection with Ireland, in whatever form that takes, if at all possible.

I'd imagine you'll be devastated by Finn Azaz playing for us given his background then. It's hard to believe that in this day and age we're still wrestling with all of this blood purity sh*te when it comes to our national team, but then again there always has been a weird amount of derision towards the diaspora.
Why would I be devastated? The lad is English born of both Irish and Israeli heritage. It seems he has the choice of 3 nations. If he has a sense of Irishness as part of his mixed heritage, welcome aboard!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2024 at 4:08pm
Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

I'm sure most of us don't just support Ireland, we support our club teams as well. But my support for Ireland is very different from my support for my club. I couldn't care less about the national backgrounds of the club players. But I want the Ireland team to actually reflect something about our country. So I want the players to have a sincere prior connection with Ireland, in whatever form that takes, if at all possible.

I'd imagine you'll be devastated by Finn Azaz playing for us given his background then. It's hard to believe that in this day and age we're still wrestling with all of this blood purity sh*te when it comes to our national team, but then again there always has been a weird amount of derision towards the diaspora.
Why would I be devastated? The lad is English born of both Irish and Israeli heritage. It seems he has the choice of 3 nations. If he has a sense of Irishness as part of his mixed heritage, welcome aboard!

And what if that sense of Irishness came with a strong sense of also being Israeli - would that pass your "purity of the soul" check, seeing as our players apparently are only legitimate Irishmen if they represent all of your own views on Irishnes?
We're decent enough..
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