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John Nice 
Jack Charlton
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 Posted: 31 Aug 2023 at 4:22pm |
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Celtic look to be in the process of making a huge mistake here, but tbh I have little sympathy, they should have been finding a solution for this lad other than Scottish pub football over the last year. Looks like theyll pay a price now because Vata looks like the real deal to me.
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You Tell Me
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 31 Aug 2023 at 5:18pm |
 tonyjaa wrote:
Anthony Joseph
@AnthonyRJoseph
UPDATE: Celtic have rejected a £450,000 bid from an unnamed English Premier League club for attacker Rocco Vata.
It’s understood the offer included add-ons and a sell-on clause.
Celtic would be due £343,000 in compensation if he signs a pre-contract in January
_
Pity he doesn't sign a contract and stay on
This will be Forrests last season & I can see other wide attackers move on in Jan/next summer and he would get his chances but appears his dad is pushing for a big move elsewhere for alot more wages
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They'll just sign more sh*te from around the world and not play him. Like they always do. Vata senior is probably smart enough to see that. It's an easy decision, go elsewhere and have a shot at first team football at a good level or stay at Celtic and be the next Luca Connell, rotting away doing nothing until he's 22.
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J89
Ray Houghton
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Posted: 31 Aug 2023 at 6:07pm |
You Tell Me wrote:
tonyjaa wrote:
Anthony Joseph
@AnthonyRJoseph
UPDATE: Celtic have rejected a £450,000 bid from an unnamed English Premier League club for attacker Rocco Vata.
It’s understood the offer included add-ons and a sell-on clause.
Celtic would be due £343,000 in compensation if he signs a pre-contract in January
_
Pity he doesn't sign a contract and stay on
This will be Forrests last season & I can see other wide attackers move on in Jan/next summer and he would get his chances but appears his dad is pushing for a big move elsewhere for alot more wages
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They'll just sign more sh*te from around the world and not play him. Like they always do. Vata senior is probably smart enough to see that. It's an easy decision, go elsewhere and have a shot at first team football at a good level or stay at Celtic and be the next Luca Connell, rotting away doing nothing until he's 22. |
Ex Celtic player and family are die hard Celtic fans. Doubt Vata leaves Celtic if the family felt it's the best place for him to develop. Could sign a three year deal and would only have just turned 21 when it expires. Family probably have no faith in the club with Vata's development over the next three to five years.
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Fitz
Liam Brady
Joined: 12 Oct 2011
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Posted: 31 Aug 2023 at 9:26pm |
You Tell Me wrote:
tonyjaa wrote:
Anthony Joseph
@AnthonyRJoseph
UPDATE: Celtic have rejected a £450,000 bid from an unnamed English Premier League club for attacker Rocco Vata.
It’s understood the offer included add-ons and a sell-on clause.
Celtic would be due £343,000 in compensation if he signs a pre-contract in January
_
Pity he doesn't sign a contract and stay on
This will be Forrests last season & I can see other wide attackers move on in Jan/next summer and he would get his chances but appears his dad is pushing for a big move elsewhere for alot more wages
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They'll just sign more sh*te from around the world and not play him. Like they always do. Vata senior is probably smart enough to see that. It's an easy decision, go elsewhere and have a shot at first team football at a good level or stay at Celtic and be the next Luca Connell, rotting away doing nothing until he's 22. |
I agree that he should’ve gotten more chances - and I’d like to see him get a few more - but tbf it’s not like he’s looked amazing any time he’s played. There’s this narrative that Celtic has treated Irish players very badly and that it’s a bad place for youth development (and, yes, maybe it could well be better) but a lot of the support for this narrative had come from people that haven’t seen much of these lads at all.
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The O'Shea
Jack Charlton
I know everything and I’m NEVER wrong
Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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Posted: 31 Aug 2023 at 9:45pm |
Fitz wrote:
You Tell Me wrote:
tonyjaa wrote:
Anthony Joseph
@AnthonyRJoseph
UPDATE: Celtic have rejected a £450,000 bid from an unnamed English Premier League club for attacker Rocco Vata.
It’s understood the offer included add-ons and a sell-on clause.
Celtic would be due £343,000 in compensation if he signs a pre-contract in January
_
Pity he doesn't sign a contract and stay on
This will be Forrests last season & I can see other wide attackers move on in Jan/next summer and he would get his chances but appears his dad is pushing for a big move elsewhere for alot more wages
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They'll just sign more sh*te from around the world and not play him. Like they always do. Vata senior is probably smart enough to see that. It's an easy decision, go elsewhere and have a shot at first team football at a good level or stay at Celtic and be the next Luca Connell, rotting away doing nothing until he's 22. |
I agree that he should’ve gotten more chances - and I’d like to see him get a few more - but tbf it’s not like he’s looked amazing any time he’s played. There’s this narrative that Celtic has treated Irish players very badly and that it’s a bad place for youth development (and, yes, maybe it could well be better) but a lot of the support for this narrative had come from people that haven’t seen much of these lads at all. |
Hasn't looked amazing any time he's played? He's played 40 mins for Celtic 1st team ffs  The narrative is not that Celtic are bad exclusively for young Irish players, it's that they're sh*te for any young player. Literally every Irish lad that has left there has improved since doing so, it's not all a coincidence.
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We're decent enough..
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PaddyMaddenIsCounty!
Kevin Kilbane
Joined: 22 Oct 2022
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Posted: 31 Aug 2023 at 9:49pm |
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True, Aaron Hickey, Andy Robertson etc all on books as teenagers but let go for being too small etc. Transfer policy short sighted, Better off having squad of 20 players of quality than 30 were half players last a season and disappear. Space for young players to fill in.
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Bandwagon
Ray Houghton
Joined: 07 Feb 2021
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Posted: 31 Aug 2023 at 9:52pm |
The O'Shea wrote:
Fitz wrote:
You Tell Me wrote:
tonyjaa wrote:
Anthony Joseph
@AnthonyRJoseph
UPDATE: Celtic have rejected a £450,000 bid from an unnamed English Premier League club for attacker Rocco Vata.
It’s understood the offer included add-ons and a sell-on clause.
Celtic would be due £343,000 in compensation if he signs a pre-contract in January
_
Pity he doesn't sign a contract and stay on
This will be Forrests last season & I can see other wide attackers move on in Jan/next summer and he would get his chances but appears his dad is pushing for a big move elsewhere for alot more wages
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They'll just sign more sh*te from around the world and not play him. Like they always do. Vata senior is probably smart enough to see that. It's an easy decision, go elsewhere and have a shot at first team football at a good level or stay at Celtic and be the next Luca Connell, rotting away doing nothing until he's 22. |
I agree that he should’ve gotten more chances - and I’d like to see him get a few more - but tbf it’s not like he’s looked amazing any time he’s played. There’s this narrative that Celtic has treated Irish players very badly and that it’s a bad place for youth development (and, yes, maybe it could well be better) but a lot of the support for this narrative had come from people that haven’t seen much of these lads at all. |
Hasn't looked amazing any time he's played? He's played 40 mins for Celtic 1st team ffs The narrative is not that Celtic are bad exclusively for young Irish players, it's that they're sh*te for any young player. Literally every Irish lad that has left there has improved since doing so, it's not all a coincidence. |
Luca Connell just had an excellent season and got himself into the PFA team of the season. He didnt look out of place for Bolton in the Championship at 17 either. He wasted 4 years at Celtic playing for their B team and in the 4th tier of Scottish football with Queens Park.
Not saying he deserved to be in the Celtic first team off the bat, but they could have managed his loans better and then at least given him a chance in the first team. You cant say most the teams in the SPL hed have been up against were any better than the ones hes faced in League One.
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You Tell Me
Jack Charlton
Joined: 05 Sep 2010
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Posted: 31 Aug 2023 at 9:59pm |
Fitz wrote:
You Tell Me wrote:
tonyjaa wrote:
Anthony Joseph
@AnthonyRJoseph
UPDATE: Celtic have rejected a £450,000 bid from an unnamed English Premier League club for attacker Rocco Vata.
It’s understood the offer included add-ons and a sell-on clause.
Celtic would be due £343,000 in compensation if he signs a pre-contract in January
_
Pity he doesn't sign a contract and stay on
This will be Forrests last season & I can see other wide attackers move on in Jan/next summer and he would get his chances but appears his dad is pushing for a big move elsewhere for alot more wages
|
They'll just sign more sh*te from around the world and not play him. Like they always do. Vata senior is probably smart enough to see that. It's an easy decision, go elsewhere and have a shot at first team football at a good level or stay at Celtic and be the next Luca Connell, rotting away doing nothing until he's 22. |
I agree that he should’ve gotten more chances - and I’d like to see him get a few more - but tbf it’s not like he’s looked amazing any time he’s played. There’s this narrative that Celtic has treated Irish players very badly and that it’s a bad place for youth development (and, yes, maybe it could well be better) but a lot of the support for this narrative had come from people that haven’t seen much of these lads at all. |
It's not really that they should have played him more up to now, it's that previous examples of countless other young players, both Irish and from other countries, show that if he signs a new deal they won't play him in future either.
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kevin100
Ray Houghton
Joined: 01 Jul 2020
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Posted: 31 Aug 2023 at 11:22pm |
The O'Shea wrote:
Fitz wrote:
You Tell Me wrote:
tonyjaa wrote:
Anthony Joseph
@AnthonyRJoseph
UPDATE: Celtic have rejected a £450,000 bid from an unnamed English Premier League club for attacker Rocco Vata.
It’s understood the offer included add-ons and a sell-on clause.
Celtic would be due £343,000 in compensation if he signs a pre-contract in January
_
Pity he doesn't sign a contract and stay on
This will be Forrests last season & I can see other wide attackers move on in Jan/next summer and he would get his chances but appears his dad is pushing for a big move elsewhere for alot more wages
|
They'll just sign more sh*te from around the world and not play him. Like they always do. Vata senior is probably smart enough to see that. It's an easy decision, go elsewhere and have a shot at first team football at a good level or stay at Celtic and be the next Luca Connell, rotting away doing nothing until he's 22. |
I agree that he should’ve gotten more chances - and I’d like to see him get a few more - but tbf it’s not like he’s looked amazing any time he’s played. There’s this narrative that Celtic has treated Irish players very badly and that it’s a bad place for youth development (and, yes, maybe it could well be better) but a lot of the support for this narrative had come from people that haven’t seen much of these lads at all. |
Hasn't looked amazing any time he's played? He's played 40 mins for Celtic 1st team ffs The narrative is not that Celtic are bad exclusively for young Irish players, it's that they're sh*te for any young player. Literally every Irish lad that has left there has improved since doing so, it's not all a coincidence. |
100% this is just impossible for Celtic fans to grasp seemingly. Celtic with the advantage they have in the League should be singing and developing all the best Scottish and Irish talent in particular and selling it on for stupid money the way Ajax,PSV,the big Belgian clubs or the 3 big Portuguese clubs do.
Scotland is producing a stupid amount of talent and a lot of it was at Celtic but were let go/moved for said reason. Unless the Celtic fanboys are gonna tell me Hickey,Doak aren’t good enough for them.
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Fitz
Liam Brady
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Posted: 01 Sep 2023 at 12:52am |
The O'Shea wrote:
Hasn't looked amazing any time he's played? He's played 40 mins for Celtic 1st team ffs The narrative is not that Celtic are bad exclusively for young Irish players, it's that they're sh*te for any young player. Literally every Irish lad that has left there has improved since doing so, it's not all a coincidence. |
Have they, ya? Lee O Connor playing in League 2? Afolabi, Coffey and Kenny (on loan, after scoring 0/12 for Queen’s Park last year) playing in the League of Ireland? Luca Connell left Celtic four years ago and is now doing okay at Barnsley - and more power to him - but it’s League 1. Okoflex never played for the senior team at West Ham and made 13 appearances on loan at Swansea; he’s gone to Zurich now, let’s see if things improve for him. So, who are these Irish lads you speak of that have all improved so much since leaving??
I’ve plenty of critical things to say about Celtic (including matters related to coaching and the youth system), as do the majority of Celtic fans, but you’re talking through your arse here pal.
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The O'Shea
Jack Charlton
I know everything and I’m NEVER wrong
Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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Posted: 01 Sep 2023 at 12:57am |
Fitz wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
Hasn't looked amazing any time he's played? He's played 40 mins for Celtic 1st team ffs The narrative is not that Celtic are bad exclusively for young Irish players, it's that they're sh*te for any young player. Literally every Irish lad that has left there has improved since doing so, it's not all a coincidence. |
Have they, ya? Lee O Connor playing in League 2? Afolabi, Coffey and Kenny (on loan, after scoring 0/12 for Queen’s Park last year) playing in the League of Ireland? Luca Connell left Celtic four years ago and is now doing okay at Barnsley - and more power to him - but it’s League 1. Okoflex never played for the senior team at West Ham and made 13 appearances on loan at Swansea; he’s gone to Zurich now, let’s see if things improve for him. So, who are these Irish lads you speak of that have all improved so much since leaving??
I’ve plenty of critical things to say about Celtic (including matters related to coaching and the youth system), as do the majority of Celtic fans, but you’re talking through your arse here pal. |
They've all improved on their lot since leaving (having noticeably disimproved when there). Afolabi is the form player in the LOI, O'Connor is an established player for Tranmere, Connell was outstanding for Barnsley last year, OkoFlex has played Championship football and is now with one of the top sides in Switzerland, etc. Their situations are all significantly better than they were at Celtic, where they were basically left to rot with no clear plan for their development for a few years. Whether any of them would ultimately have been good enough for Celtic is not the point, the point is that Celtic actively hindered their development rather than maximising it.
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We're decent enough..
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Fitz
Liam Brady
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Posted: 01 Sep 2023 at 1:04am |
You Tell Me wrote:
It's not really that they should have played him more up to now, it's that previous examples of countless other young players, both Irish and from other countries, show that if he signs a new deal they won't play him in future either. |
I think he should’ve had more of a crack of the whip up to now; even Doak didn’t play much for the senior team, which is a shame (Celtic did want to keep him but he wanted to go - fair enough). I have no qualms in saying that there’s instances of youth players’ situations being handled badly at Celtic - that isn’t an issue that many Celtic fans will deny - but the narrative that every young player who’s left in recent years has improved is simply bollox. Karamoko Dembele was a total youth prodigy (who also should’ve featured more) but, so far, he’s gone on to do f**k all.
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John Nice
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 01 Sep 2023 at 1:05am |
On the Vata point, he looked by some distance the best of our attacking U19 players in the Elite Group back in March. Postecoglu was also giving him chances towards the back end of last season. There have been plenty of Irish lads at Celtic who maybe werent up to a whole lot, but imo they are making a mistake with this lad.
Anyway I think it's pretty clear that the Scottish B League isnt a good vehicle for developing youngsters. They need to find a better way to progress and manage young lads through the loan system.
Edited by John Nice - 01 Sep 2023 at 1:06am
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Idah Dream!
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John Nice
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 01 Sep 2023 at 1:08am |
Fitz wrote:
You Tell Me wrote:
It's not really that they should have played him more up to now, it's that previous examples of countless other young players, both Irish and from other countries, show that if he signs a new deal they won't play him in future either. |
I think he should’ve had more of a crack of the whip up to now; even Doak didn’t play much for the senior team, which is a shame (Celtic did want to keep him but he wanted to go - fair enough). I have no qualms in saying that there’s instances of youth players’ situations being handled badly at Celtic - that isn’t an issue that many Celtic fans will deny - but the narrative that every young player who’s left in recent years has improved is simply bollox. Karamoko Dembele was a total youth prodigy (who also should’ve featured more) but, so far, he’s gone on to do f**k all. |
Doak likely would have stayed, if Celtic were able to convince him that it was the best place for him to develop, just like Vata likely would have. The fact that they dont seem to be able to convince these young lads/their agents/advisors that this is the case is a big problem for Celtic, they need to do better, that much seems clear.
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Idah Dream!
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Fitz
Liam Brady
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Posted: 01 Sep 2023 at 1:12am |
The O'Shea wrote:
Fitz wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
Hasn't looked amazing any time he's played? He's played 40 mins for Celtic 1st team ffs The narrative is not that Celtic are bad exclusively for young Irish players, it's that they're sh*te for any young player. Literally every Irish lad that has left there has improved since doing so, it's not all a coincidence. |
Have they, ya? Lee O Connor playing in League 2? Afolabi, Coffey and Kenny (on loan, after scoring 0/12 for Queen’s Park last year) playing in the League of Ireland? Luca Connell left Celtic four years ago and is now doing okay at Barnsley - and more power to him - but it’s League 1. Okoflex never played for the senior team at West Ham and made 13 appearances on loan at Swansea; he’s gone to Zurich now, let’s see if things improve for him. So, who are these Irish lads you speak of that have all improved so much since leaving??
I’ve plenty of critical things to say about Celtic (including matters related to coaching and the youth system), as do the majority of Celtic fans, but you’re talking through your arse here pal. |
They've all improved on their lot since leaving (having noticeably disimproved when there). Afolabi is the form player in the LOI, O'Connor is an established player for Tranmere, Connell was outstanding for Barnsley last year, OkoFlex has played Championship football and is now with one of the top sides in Switzerland, etc. Their situations are all significantly better than they were at Celtic, where they were basically left to rot with no clear plan for their development for a few years. Whether any of them would ultimately have been good enough for Celtic is not the point, the point is that Celtic actively hindered their development rather than maximising it. |
My god, you sure do know a lot about the goings-on at Celtic!  I agree that their development may well have been better elsewhere, but you’re totally moving the goalposts in regards to where they are now and how they’re doing. Afolabi scored 8 times in 51 games down the leagues in Scotland over the course of three years. I hope to f**k that they all go on to great things, genuinely, but either you’ve got some anti-Celtic agenda going on or you’re simply over-estimating the level that these lads are at/are capable of.
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Fitz
Liam Brady
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Posted: 01 Sep 2023 at 1:15am |
John Nice wrote:
Fitz wrote:
You Tell Me wrote:
It's not really that they should have played him more up to now, it's that previous examples of countless other young players, both Irish and from other countries, show that if he signs a new deal they won't play him in future either. |
I think he should’ve had more of a crack of the whip up to now; even Doak didn’t play much for the senior team, which is a shame (Celtic did want to keep him but he wanted to go - fair enough). I have no qualms in saying that there’s instances of youth players’ situations being handled badly at Celtic - that isn’t an issue that many Celtic fans will deny - but the narrative that every young player who’s left in recent years has improved is simply bollox. Karamoko Dembele was a total youth prodigy (who also should’ve featured more) but, so far, he’s gone on to do f**k all. |
Doak likely would have stayed, if Celtic were able to convince him that it was the best place for him to develop, just like Vata likely would have. The fact that they dont seem to be able to convince these young lads/their agents/advisors that this is the case is a big problem for Celtic, they need to do better, that much seems clear. |
That’s easily said now, but with agents and parents involved most players are going to go for the money (by all accounts he got a great deal and wanted to go). Does that mean that Celtic couldn’t and shouldn’t do better in numerous areas? It certainly does not.
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J89
Ray Houghton
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Posted: 01 Sep 2023 at 1:16am |
Fitz wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
Hasn't looked amazing any time he's played? He's played 40 mins for Celtic 1st team ffs The narrative is not that Celtic are bad exclusively for young Irish players, it's that they're sh*te for any young player. Literally every Irish lad that has left there has improved since doing so, it's not all a coincidence. |
Have they, ya? Lee O Connor playing in League 2? Afolabi, Coffey and Kenny (on loan, after scoring 0/12 for Queen’s Park last year) playing in the League of Ireland? Luca Connell left Celtic four years ago and is now doing okay at Barnsley - and more power to him - but it’s League 1. Okoflex never played for the senior team at West Ham and made 13 appearances on loan at Swansea; he’s gone to Zurich now, let’s see if things improve for him. So, who are these Irish lads you speak of that have all improved so much since leaving??
I’ve plenty of critical things to say about Celtic (including matters related to coaching and the youth system), as do the majority of Celtic fans, but you’re talking through your arse here pal. |
Luca left Celtic a year ago and is doing more than okay at Barnsley.
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Fitz
Liam Brady
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Posted: 01 Sep 2023 at 1:25am |
J89 wrote:
Fitz wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
Hasn't looked amazing any time he's played? He's played 40 mins for Celtic 1st team ffs The narrative is not that Celtic are bad exclusively for young Irish players, it's that they're sh*te for any young player. Literally every Irish lad that has left there has improved since doing so, it's not all a coincidence. |
Have they, ya? Lee O Connor playing in League 2? Afolabi, Coffey and Kenny (on loan, after scoring 0/12 for Queen’s Park last year) playing in the League of Ireland? Luca Connell left Celtic four years ago and is now doing okay at Barnsley - and more power to him - but it’s League 1. Okoflex never played for the senior team at West Ham and made 13 appearances on loan at Swansea; he’s gone to Zurich now, let’s see if things improve for him. So, who are these Irish lads you speak of that have all improved so much since leaving??
I’ve plenty of critical things to say about Celtic (including matters related to coaching and the youth system), as do the majority of Celtic fans, but you’re talking through your arse here pal. |
Luca left Celtic a year ago and is doing more than okay at Barnsley. |
Sorry, poorly worded there on my behalf - I meant he hadn’t been involved with the first team since 2020 (he played 38 times for Queens Park in 2 seasons).
Ya, and like I said, more power to him. I liked the look of him when he arrived at Celtic, and maybe he’ll go on to greater things. Would he have been good enough to play for Celtic in the last two seasons though?? No is the answer.
Edited by Fitz - 01 Sep 2023 at 1:28am
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