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J89 View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


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Points: 3611 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2023 at 11:40am
Are Celtic really gonna give minutes to a player who looks to have one foot out the door. If he's in two minds minutes could convince him to stay but if he's adamant about leaving why give him minutes that could be given to someone else.
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

People are expecting him to be playing for the Celtic senior team week in week out.

Tbf there were signs towards the back end of last season that the prospect of him making match day squads each week under Ange was not far fetched. Obviously the contract situation, new manager has moved the dial and the likelihood at this point is he signs a pre-contract with somebody in January. 

He is very talented, the best (and most mature) of our very good U19 crop of attackers imo. All other things being equal, I think a squad role at Celtci would have been viable.
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Points: 34948 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2023 at 11:29am
People are expecting him to be playing for the Celtic senior team week in week out.
It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me,
He wouldn't set me free,
So he kept me soul for ransom.
na na na na na na na na na
na na na na na na na na.
I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to
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Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

He played 4 times under Ange before getting injured. The guy is still a kid to be fair. He’s a lot of growing to do. Some difference between him and Armstrong. 
Has plenty of time to grow, he'll still be eligible for the 2027 U21 Euros, he's well ahead of schedule!
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Robbie Keane
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Points: 34948 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2023 at 11:14am
He played 4 times under Ange before getting injured. The guy is still a kid to be fair. He’s a lot of growing to do. Some difference between him and Armstrong. 
It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me,
He wouldn't set me free,
So he kept me soul for ransom.
na na na na na na na na na
na na na na na na na na.
I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to
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Originally posted by tonyjaa tonyjaa wrote:

It looks like Abada is out for 4-5 months with a thigh tear according to the SMSM

Good chance for Vata to get minutes over the winter
Hopefully although apparently Celtic planning convert him to central striker
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by tonyjaa tonyjaa wrote:

It looks like Abada is out for 4-5 months with a thigh tear according to the SMSM

Good chance for Vata to get minutes over the winter


And/or for Johnston who I see has been named in their CL squad (along with Scales) - Dont think Vata has to be named in that as he's U21 and club trained.


Likely to meet the homegrown/club trained quota.

I wouldnt think so, he played previously under Rodgers and I think he will do so again. It was Ange who didnt take a shine to him and sent him out on loan. I see he is back in training also. I think he'll see game time under Rodgers.
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Ray Houghton
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Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by tonyjaa tonyjaa wrote:

It looks like Abada is out for 4-5 months with a thigh tear according to the SMSM

Good chance for Vata to get minutes over the winter


And/or for Johnston who I see has been named in their CL squad (along with Scales) - Dont think Vata has to be named in that as he's U21 and club trained.


Likely to meet the homegrown/club trained quota.
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Kevin Kilbane
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Unless he signs the contract - Celtic will keep him with the B team unfortunately 
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by tonyjaa tonyjaa wrote:

It looks like Abada is out for 4-5 months with a thigh tear according to the SMSM

Good chance for Vata to get minutes over the winter

And/or for Johnston who I see has been named in their CL squad (along with Scales) - Dont think Vata has to be named in that as he's U21 and club trained.
Idah Dream!
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Paul McGrath
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It looks like Abada is out for 4-5 months with a thigh tear according to the SMSM

Good chance for Vata to get minutes over the winter
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Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

The issue here is that Vata likely is good enough, if not now, then in the not too distant future (Doak was similar) as evidenced by the fact Ange was giving him game time. It reflects poorly on Celtic imo that they cant even get their very best underage talents to commit and it surely points to issues with how they develop such talents. They are dominant in their league, they should be able to have a spot or two open to their best young players for games at home vs the bottom 6 for example. To me this is a problem with the culture and/or vision within the club.


You’re not far wrong, but the suggestion by people that this only happens at Celtic, or that the Irish lads who were there were ‘wronged’ and are doing much better now, is simply not factual. 


Edited by Fitz - 01 Sep 2023 at 8:16pm
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Liam Brady
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Needs to get well out of there...
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Liam Brady
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Originally posted by Howdo Howdo wrote:

Word is they're offering him a new contract, and also trying to develop him as a striker, interesting of true

https://www.67hailhail.com/transfers/celtic-kick-out-two-late-english-transfer-offers-new-plan-and-position-for-academy-talent/

A waste of his talents. 

He could maybe play as a second striker in a 3-5-2 system like the one that Inter use.
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500 Club la la la
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Points: 741 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Howdo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 2023 at 11:04am
Word is they're offering him a new contract, and also trying to develop him as a striker, interesting of true

https://www.67hailhail.com/transfers/celtic-kick-out-two-late-english-transfer-offers-new-plan-and-position-for-academy-talent/


Edited by Howdo - 01 Sep 2023 at 11:06am
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by Banana_RepublicFC Banana_RepublicFC wrote:

Celtic bringing through players who are good enough to start games regularly has been a problem for about a decade or so.

Forrest, McGregor and Tierney are the three standouts from the past 10 odd tears.

Ralston has barely played bar one season.

And Forrest is 32 now. McGregor is 30. Tierney was their once in a decade Evan Ferguson/Nathan Collins equivalent - a player who would have made it regardless of what club he went to. And they ruined him by repeatedly playing him when he wasn't fully fit. Some record they have alright.


Edited by You Tell Me - 01 Sep 2023 at 10:21am
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by Fitz Fitz wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:


Hasn't looked amazing any time he's played? He's played 40 mins for Celtic 1st team ffs LOL The narrative is not that Celtic are bad exclusively for young Irish players, it's that they're sh*te for any young player. Literally every Irish lad that has left there has improved since doing so, it's not all a coincidence.


Have they, ya? Lee O Connor playing in League 2? Afolabi, Coffey and Kenny (on loan, after scoring 0/12 for Queen’s Park last year) playing in the League of Ireland? Luca Connell left Celtic four years ago and is now doing okay at Barnsley - and more power to him - but it’s League 1. Okoflex never played for the senior team at West Ham and made 13 appearances on loan at Swansea; he’s gone to Zurich now, let’s see if things improve for him. 
 So, who are these Irish lads you speak of that have all improved so much since leaving??


I’ve plenty of critical things to say about Celtic (including matters related to coaching and the youth system), as do the majority of Celtic fans, but you’re talking through your arse here pal. 



They've all improved on their lot since leaving (having noticeably disimproved when there). Afolabi is the form player in the LOI, O'Connor is an established player for Tranmere, Connell was outstanding for Barnsley last year, OkoFlex has played Championship football and is now with one of the top sides in Switzerland, etc. Their situations are all significantly better than they were at Celtic, where they were basically left to rot with no clear plan for their development for a few years. Whether any of them would ultimately have been good enough for Celtic is not the point, the point is that Celtic actively hindered their development rather than maximising it.

None of those players above are good enough to play for Celtic.

They all left for lesser clubs and and are all doing relatively well - which is great for them, but it's still not different to any other player that fails to make the grade at a bigger club,

Multiple managers would have looked at these players and felt there were better players ahead of them.


 The concept of actually developing players to help them become good enough is , of course, completely lost on the club. Which brings us back to Vata, Doak and anyone else with talent and ambition wanting out.

At every single club in the world - the club will try and develop their own players - the vast majority will probably never get a chance for a number of reasons , not good enough, better players ahead of them etc...

The bigger and more successful the club, the harder it gets. And a lot of those players will leave without ever getting a minute on the pitch, and again, most will go on to have reasonably successful careers with other clubs, probably at lesser teams or in lower divisions.


I remember reading an article a few months ago about Brighton and how they are working to develop Andrew Moran to be the best player he can be. Nobody else wanted him when he was playing in Ireland, he was talented but physically undeveloped and needed a lot of work overall. But they saw something in him, took him over to England and have been working hard with him since to maximise his potential, through personally tailored coaching, their Under 18s, Under 21s/23s, senior squad training, senior appearances in cup games, a Premier League debut and now an excellent loan to Blackburn in the Championship.

He may make it, he may not, but going to Brighton has given him the best possible chance I would say. Would he have had the same level of work and focus put in to him at Celtic? Would they have created the same pathway for him? Or would he have been left in the B team for a couple of years and then sent to some Scottish provincial lower league club before being cut adrift? All evidence points to the latter.
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Celtic bringing through players who are good enough to start games regularly has been a problem for about a decade or so.

Forrest, McGregor and Tierney are the three standouts from the past 10 odd tears.

Ralston has barely played bar one season.
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