Author |
Topic Search Topic Options
|
colemanY2K
Roy Keane
Fresh minty breath
Joined: 01 Mar 2010
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 14959
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Oct 2022 at 7:59pm |
Cabra Hoop wrote:
Jack City wrote:
Just listening to off the ball, they said Greece are in the play offs no matter where they finish in the group due to nation league results.I don't have a clue how it works but that's what they said. | Means they can have a proper go at this with the safety of the play off in their sky. And who is their first home game against ? |
There's that and then there's the argument they'll not give a sh*t knowing they haven't a hope of finishing in the top 2 but comfortable in the knowledge they have a playoff in the back pocket.
They could seriously be lacking in motivation and end up losing all their matches bar those against Gibraltar. I think is far more plausible than your scenario.
Edited by colemanY2K - 10 Oct 2022 at 8:02pm
|
"One of the dominant facts in English life during the past three quarters of a century has been the decay of ability in the ruling class." Orwell, 1942.
|
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
J89
Ray Houghton
Joined: 25 Mar 2018
Status: Online
Points: 3610
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Oct 2022 at 8:09pm |
colemanY2K wrote:
Cabra Hoop wrote:
Jack City wrote:
Just listening to off the ball, they said Greece are in the play offs no matter where they finish in the group due to nation league results.I don't have a clue how it works but that's what they said. | Means they can have a proper go at this with the safety of the play off in their sky. And who is their first home game against ? |
There's that and then there's the argument they'll not give a sh*t knowing they haven't a hope of finishing in the top 2 but comfortable in the knowledge they have a playoff in the back pocket.
They could seriously be lacking in motivation and end up losing all their matches bar those against Gibraltar. I think is far more plausible than your scenario.
| Good chance for them to further experiment in competitive games and give any decent young players they've got some further game time before the play offs.
|
|
Het-field
Roy Keane
By Appointment to His Majesty The King
Joined: 08 Mar 2016
Status: Offline
Points: 10658
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Oct 2022 at 8:11pm |
I assume Greece will go out and play their game like normal with the intention of doing as well as possible. Our ‘semi final’ play off against Slovakia was hardly a major prize and you had to rely on winning successive games against similarly ranked teams, or win two shootouts.
|
|
John Nice
Jack Charlton
Joined: 10 Sep 2021
Location: Wexford
Status: Offline
Points: 5137
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Oct 2022 at 8:22pm |
J89 wrote:
colemanY2K wrote:
Cabra Hoop wrote:
Jack City wrote:
Just listening to off the ball, they said Greece are in the play offs no matter where they finish in the group due to nation league results.I don't have a clue how it works but that's what they said. | Means they can have a proper go at this with the safety of the play off in their sky. And who is their first home game against ? |
There's that and then there's the argument they'll not give a sh*t knowing they haven't a hope of finishing in the top 2 but comfortable in the knowledge they have a playoff in the back pocket.
They could seriously be lacking in motivation and end up losing all their matches bar those against Gibraltar. I think is far more plausible than your scenario.
|
Good chance for them to further experiment in competitive games and give any decent young players they've got some further game time before the play offs. |
They'll be facing us at home having taken 3pts off Gibralter in the first window, so they will be bang up for it, as will we - it's going to be a tough game probably played in intense heat in Greece in early June. I guess there's a chance that the play off thing could be a factor if they are well out of contention by the time we play them at home, but it's unlikely. It's not like they would walk through 2 play-off games either. Dont think it's a significant factor and certainly not with regard to our first encounter.
|
Idah Dream!
|
|
Greenie50
Liam Brady
Joined: 06 Sep 2021
Status: Offline
Points: 1276
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Oct 2022 at 8:23pm |
Fruice wrote:
It’s not a quibble it’s a fact the first two results cost us and key part of that was we didn’t score and Kenny left our best attacking player on the bench for the first two games. I remember sitting above in the stands against Scotland and watching obafemi do wreck and saying to our group why didn’t he start him in the other two games.
As for Ukraine and the Scot’s being ranked higher than us they are marginally ranked higher than us nothing to fear. It’s not Brazil and France for god sakes.
If you were to carry you thought process to its logical conclusion we would stay as 3rd seeds for ever.
And this is all in response to you saying that the nations league results was due to the rebuild.
|
Obafemi was carrying a knock in June, the same knock that forced him off after 50' vs Scotland & miss the Ukraine away game. He also got 20-25mins in the first 2 games but didn't do much in either game.
Beyond that, Ogbene & Robinson had plenty credit in the bank for their then recent performances, they'd earned their starts vs Armenia. Should've been switched out for the 2nd game though.
As for the rankings, Scotland are "marginally" ahead of us (40th vs our 49th), but their squad is made up largely of players in their prime physical years, where ours are mostly either aging (30+) or learning their trade (U23).
Ukraine are a mile ahead of us, ranked 27th. They have all round a better squad than we do. Their "second string" went away to Armenia & won 5-0.
Edited by Greenie50 - 10 Oct 2022 at 8:26pm
|
|
Greenie50
Liam Brady
Joined: 06 Sep 2021
Status: Offline
Points: 1276
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Oct 2022 at 8:33pm |
Dalymount79 wrote:
Georgia, Ukraine, latvia, Albania, Estonia and Hungary don’t have games in the 23/24 March slot s far as I can see |
And Cyprus are free on matchday 10 in November.
|
|
Territorial
Jack Charlton
Joined: 25 Nov 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 5817
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Oct 2022 at 9:30pm |
Bonehead24 wrote:
Territorial wrote:
Bonehead24 wrote:
When are venues to be confirmed? | I think technically they don't have to confirm the venues until 3 months (minimum) beforehand - though some countries often do much earlier.
Bonehead24 wrote:
I presume Greece will be Athens and Netherlands will be Amsterdam. |
Greece will probably be Athens/Piraeus, but it could also be Thessaloniki or Volos (2/1 odds?) While Netherlands play most of their games in Amsterdam, but a also proportion in Rotterdam (2/1 again?)
Flying to Amsterdam and train to Rotterdam is not a problem, but iI wouldnt be in any hurry tu book flights to Greece if possible, since both Thessaloniki (esp) and Volos are a fair way from Athens.
|
Greece is the only one I've pulled the trigger on so far so thanks for the confidence |
Sorry!
I was all set to go to Volos to see NI play last month, when the IFA(!) asked for it to be switched to Athens 3 or 4 weeks before the game. Screwed my plans and I ended up not going.
|
|
Stickittotheman
Liam Brady
Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 2290
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Oct 2022 at 9:36pm |
John Nice wrote:
Stickittotheman wrote:
t_rAndy wrote:
A lot of posters acting like school children. Blaming Kenny and the style of football for us getting a hard draw.We have been 1st seeds and 2nd seeds in the past and got favourable enough draws and still not qualified. We have been 4th seeds and finished in the top 2. There are about 3 other groups were if we had of been the pot 3 team we would be fancying our chances. The North were 5th seeds and they got a decent group.
You can't blame Kenny for the bad luck. We don't know if playing another way would have brought us better results, could have been, could have just as easily been worse and wre could have went to pot 4. The argument is silly.
What we can debate is whether the football is good enough and we can do that during the next campaign too. Kenny was near the end of the road but he pulled the nose up on the field and that is why he is still the manager. We will see in the next campaign on the field if Kenny is up to it.
|
No the point is that competitions like the Nations league are hugely important to us because there is always the possibility we get a bad draw. So every game and point counts. Yet all we had was we are Easy on the eye and building for the Euros. But the short term was that the NL was huge and we ballsed it up. The draw has made us pay for that. |
While the NL is important, a bit of perspective is required here, the team absolutely needed a complete rebuild, it simply had to be done, young lads had to be introduced, senior lads dispensed with. There is no ideal time to schedule a rebuild in international football, but obviously the NL is preferrable to an actual campaign. The draw was unlucky, we had an 80% chance of avoiding Fra/Eng and an 80% chance of avoiding Tur/Gre, we managed to avoid neither, that's bad luck. We now have a young team which is only going to improve as they gain experience - I think only 3 players had 25 caps or more in the last starting XI, 7 were 23 or under - this is the background to our last two underwhelming NL campaigns, campaigns I might add where we finished exactly where our seeding suggested we would i.e. 3rd of 4. Thats not to excuse poor performances therein and yes it would be great if we had gotten better results along the way, but context is still important.
Btw, being 2nd seeds would have guaranteed nothing, we have been second seeds or better on three occasions in the last 10 WCQ/ECQ campaigns - Euro 2004 1st seeds, WC 2006 2nd Seeds, Euro 2016 2nd seeds - We finished 3rd, 4th and 3rd respectively in those 3 campaigns. We have finished Top 2 in qualification groups only 3 times in the last 10 attempts (20 years), each time was from a seeding position of 3rd or worse. We have qualified for just 2 of the last 10 major tournaments. Some people seem to have a very elevated opinion of the abilities of the Irish team - we have been pretty much in gradual decline since 2002, hopefully 2021 represented the end of that cycle and we can now start to improve again - we are certainly in a much better place now imo than we were at the end of Mick II's campaign - it has taken longer than we would all like, but Kenny's been at it 2 odd years and there are significant green shoots emerging. The draw was a kick in the teeth. |
I didn't mention Mick nor being second seeds so that is all irrelevant. Kenny had two campaigns before the NL and we went in to it with some hope. Ended miles off it and most likely ballsed up our chances of the safety net play off via the NL. Guys here have been warning for months that a bad draw in the Euros was possible and that we had brought it on ourselves. And we have. But at least we have good possession state. Also this acceptance of finishing 3rd where we are ranked will actually be fine when France and Holland are your opponents. Not Scotland and Ukraine no matter what tye seedings say.
|
Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
|
|
Newryrep
Paul McGrath
Just can't get enough of lists
Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Status: Online
Points: 15257
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Oct 2022 at 9:41pm |
Territorial wrote:
I was all set to go to Volos to see NI play last month, when the IFA(!) asked for it to be switched to Athens 3 or 4 weeks before the game. Screwed my plans and I ended up not going.
|
Why did the IFA ask for a switch ?
|
'Irish' Songs for an Irish team - no SPL EPL generic sh*te Richard Dunne - 6th Sept 11 - best marshalling of a defence in Moscow since General Zukov Russia V Germany 1941
|
|
Territorial
Jack Charlton
Joined: 25 Nov 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 5817
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Oct 2022 at 9:51pm |
lassassinblanc wrote:
Aer Lingus flights out Thursday Back Saturday are 735€ return |
you can get floghts from London to Athens for £100 return (or less).
Add the same for Dublin to London and you save enough to keep you in Ouzo and Gyros for the entire trip, and still have money left over.
|
|
Territorial
Jack Charlton
Joined: 25 Nov 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 5817
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Oct 2022 at 10:14pm |
Het-field wrote:
I assume Greece will go out and play their game like normal with the intention of doing as well as possible.. | Gus Poyet took over in January, when the Greeks were at a low ebb after their previous two coaches.
And whether you think him a good coach or not (record is mixed, imo) he's certainly a motivator and he seems to have given them a lift - 8 games in charge, 6 wins, 2 defeats, GF 11, GA 3.
They're not brilliant (imo),esp since they lack a natural goalscorer, but should not be underestimated, esp if they can build further momentum.
Edited by Territorial - 10 Oct 2022 at 10:18pm
|
|
Territorial
Jack Charlton
Joined: 25 Nov 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 5817
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Oct 2022 at 10:25pm |
Newryrep wrote:
Territorial wrote:
I was all set to go to Volos to see NI play last month, when the IFA(!) asked for it to be switched to Athens 3 or 4 weeks before the game. Screwed my plans and I ended up not going.
|
Why did the IFA ask for a switch ? | Nobody knows, but if I had to guess (ok, a wild guess!), it could have been because there were no suitable scheduled flights to Volos, and they didn't want to fork out for a Charter?
|
|
Jimmy Raggatip
500 Club la la la
Joined: 28 May 2018
Status: Offline
Points: 727
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Oct 2022 at 10:29pm |
Stickittotheman wrote:
Also this acceptance of finishing 3rd where we are ranked will actually be fine when France and Holland are your opponents. Not Scotland and Ukraine no matter what tye seedings say. |
what gives us the right to be this arrogant at this moment in time? It's just an acceptance of where we are at and refusing to get angry about it
|
|
John Nice
Jack Charlton
Joined: 10 Sep 2021
Location: Wexford
Status: Offline
Points: 5137
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 10 Oct 2022 at 11:14pm |
Stickittotheman wrote:
John Nice wrote:
Stickittotheman wrote:
t_rAndy wrote:
A lot of posters acting like school children. Blaming Kenny and the style of football for us getting a hard draw.We have been 1st seeds and 2nd seeds in the past and got favourable enough draws and still not qualified. We have been 4th seeds and finished in the top 2. There are about 3 other groups were if we had of been the pot 3 team we would be fancying our chances. The North were 5th seeds and they got a decent group.
You can't blame Kenny for the bad luck. We don't know if playing another way would have brought us better results, could have been, could have just as easily been worse and wre could have went to pot 4. The argument is silly.
What we can debate is whether the football is good enough and we can do that during the next campaign too. Kenny was near the end of the road but he pulled the nose up on the field and that is why he is still the manager. We will see in the next campaign on the field if Kenny is up to it.
|
No the point is that competitions like the Nations league are hugely important to us because there is always the possibility we get a bad draw. So every game and point counts. Yet all we had was we are Easy on the eye and building for the Euros. But the short term was that the NL was huge and we ballsed it up. The draw has made us pay for that. |
While the NL is important, a bit of perspective is required here, the team absolutely needed a complete rebuild, it simply had to be done, young lads had to be introduced, senior lads dispensed with. There is no ideal time to schedule a rebuild in international football, but obviously the NL is preferrable to an actual campaign. The draw was unlucky, we had an 80% chance of avoiding Fra/Eng and an 80% chance of avoiding Tur/Gre, we managed to avoid neither, that's bad luck. We now have a young team which is only going to improve as they gain experience - I think only 3 players had 25 caps or more in the last starting XI, 7 were 23 or under - this is the background to our last two underwhelming NL campaigns, campaigns I might add where we finished exactly where our seeding suggested we would i.e. 3rd of 4. Thats not to excuse poor performances therein and yes it would be great if we had gotten better results along the way, but context is still important.
Btw, being 2nd seeds would have guaranteed nothing, we have been second seeds or better on three occasions in the last 10 WCQ/ECQ campaigns - Euro 2004 1st seeds, WC 2006 2nd Seeds, Euro 2016 2nd seeds - We finished 3rd, 4th and 3rd respectively in those 3 campaigns. We have finished Top 2 in qualification groups only 3 times in the last 10 attempts (20 years), each time was from a seeding position of 3rd or worse. We have qualified for just 2 of the last 10 major tournaments. Some people seem to have a very elevated opinion of the abilities of the Irish team - we have been pretty much in gradual decline since 2002, hopefully 2021 represented the end of that cycle and we can now start to improve again - we are certainly in a much better place now imo than we were at the end of Mick II's campaign - it has taken longer than we would all like, but Kenny's been at it 2 odd years and there are significant green shoots emerging. The draw was a kick in the teeth. |
I didn't mention Mick nor being second seeds so that is all irrelevant. Kenny had two campaigns before the NL and we went in to it with some hope. Ended miles off it and most likely ballsed up our chances of the safety net play off via the NL. Guys here have been warning for months that a bad draw in the Euros was possible and that we had brought it on ourselves. And we have. But at least we have good possession state. Also this acceptance of finishing 3rd where we are ranked will actually be fine when France and Holland are your opponents. Not Scotland and Ukraine no matter what tye seedings say. |
OK well I have no idea why you mention possession stats, nearly all our best performances under Kenny have been with less than 50% possession, it's the other games which are the issue. You can believe what you want regarding where we should be wrt Ukraine and Scotland, we are ranked below them, they have better players than us and we finished below them. At least you acknowledge finishing 3rd behind France and the Netherlands will be fine!
|
Idah Dream!
|
|
Fitz
Liam Brady
Joined: 12 Oct 2011
Location: Oileán Ciarraí
Status: Offline
Points: 2752
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Oct 2022 at 2:30am |
armahibee wrote:
Ive no grounds to say this but i think we il take second in the group, France to top it and a 3 way between us Greece and Holland obviously. I think we could beat any of them at home. |
What are you basing that on?
|
|
|
Newryrep
Paul McGrath
Just can't get enough of lists
Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Status: Online
Points: 15257
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Oct 2022 at 4:53am |
Fitz wrote:
armahibee wrote:
Ive no grounds to say this but i think we il take second in the group, France to top it and a 3 way between us Greece and Holland obviously. I think we could beat any of them at home. |
What are you basing that on? |
Stella Artois
|
'Irish' Songs for an Irish team - no SPL EPL generic sh*te Richard Dunne - 6th Sept 11 - best marshalling of a defence in Moscow since General Zukov Russia V Germany 1941
|
|
armahibee
Liam Brady
Joined: 11 Apr 2012
Location: belfast
Status: Offline
Points: 2028
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Oct 2022 at 12:27pm |
Newryrep wrote:
Fitz wrote:
armahibee wrote:
Ive no grounds to say this but i think we il take second in the group, France to top it and a 3 way between us Greece and Holland obviously. I think we could beat any of them at home. |
What are you basing that on? |
Stella Artois |
Nothing! But don't think its an impossible task
|
|
Shedite
Jack Charlton
Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 9820
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 11 Oct 2022 at 3:27pm |
armahibee wrote:
Newryrep wrote:
Fitz wrote:
armahibee wrote:
Ive no grounds to say this but i think we il take second in the group, France to top it and a 3 way between us Greece and Holland obviously. I think we could beat any of them at home. |
What are you basing that on? |
Stella Artois |
Nothing! But don't think its an impossible task |
If you've no grounds then it sounds like more "I hope" than "I think"
|
|