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Russian Invasion of Ukraine
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Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


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Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

OohAhh, what do you mean by ‘arguable’ invasions? With respect, there is no point in saying things like that and then claiming you just want to talk about progress towards the end of the war.

Grand, they are invasions.  What I meant was each situation had nuances but I dont feel its worth arguing over and I want to stick to point so happy to concede. It came out of a classic Forum debate where tangent points are made and taken to task over but veer off the point.

I am trying to talk about progress towards the end of the war

But this went on that tangent when you raised Afghanistan and Iraq in January.

LOL currently speaking I mean im trying to avoid needless tangents. We wont agree about possible outisde interference.
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Ray Houghton
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Grand so no one wants to talk any further about possible non military outcomes

Ill go back to what I listened to this morning. Again I cant square the circle that the likes of RFK-Jr, chomsky, Sachs and numerous other commentators can talk at length and depth and come up wiht the same narrative of this war in Ukraine and be wrong or be lying




Edited by OohAah... - 10 Apr 2024 at 2:28pm
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Roy Keane
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Are you serious Ooh-Ahh? We’ve spoken about non military solutions. I find it disingenuous that you use a short period of silence on the thread to essentially claim a victory for the rhetoric of the likes of Sachs and Chomsky. Especially when Chomsky’ “escape hatch” idea.
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Ray Houghton
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No point talking about them when the invader is still invading. Best save your energy towards Ukraine getting the help it needs to stop it.
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Ray Houghton
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Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Are you serious Ooh-Ahh? We’ve spoken about non military solutions. I find it disingenuous that you use a short period of silence on the thread to essentially claim a victory for the rhetoric of the likes of Sachs and Chomsky. Especially when Chomsky’ “escape hatch” idea.

I wasnt trying to be disengenuous, I just cant see how their narrative doesnt add up. And Ive no interest in point scoring or claiming a victory on an internet forum. I am trying to have rationale debate on the subject. The transcipt of that call in 2014, just adds to that narrative.
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Ray Houghton
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Originally posted by eireland eireland wrote:

No point talking about them when the invader is still invading. Best save your energy towards Ukraine getting the help it needs to stop it.

and by that help Eire I assume you mean military help only?
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by eireland eireland wrote:

No point talking about them when the invader is still invading. Best save your energy towards Ukraine getting the help it needs to stop it.
Lot's of ways to end this...eventually it'll come down to an unsatisfactory compromise. 
" BFC always gives me a laugh........ "
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Are you serious Ooh-Ahh? We’ve spoken about non military solutions. I find it disingenuous that you use a short period of silence on the thread to essentially claim a victory for the rhetoric of the likes of Sachs and Chomsky. Especially when Chomsky’ “escape hatch” idea.

I wasnt trying to be disengenuous, I just cant see how their narrative doesnt add up. And Ive no interest in point scoring or claiming a victory on an internet forum. I am trying to have rationale debate on the subject. The transcipt of that call in 2014, just adds to that narrative.

It’s very easy to see how their line doesn’t add up. In some cases it’s blatantly obvious like RFK’s garbage about ‘de-nazification’, which is a blatant misuse by the Kremlin of the legacy of WW2. Or the fact that Russia has been invading near neighbours for years. Or the tiny percentage of Russia that is bordered by NATO, and the fact that Belarus provides a dividing line. Or the fact that Russia almost instantly invaded once they no longer had a sympathetic ear in power in Ukraine in 2014.
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Ray Houghton
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That equally just sounds like rhetoric if you dont me saying.

The link I sent of the transcript shows I would say a heavy american involvement in the 2014 election. 

Russian was removed as a primary language disenfranchzing Russian Speakers. This this lead to Anti Russian Behaviour in the war that ensued in Eastern Ukraine? 

Was Crimea invsasion essentially peaceful and welcomed by alot of Crimeans.  

did Zelensky get in on a platform of peace? 

There is alot of resources out there that would back up all of these points and more.

Even from the link I shared yesterday about US involvement in Regime changes...

In the two years before the 2004 Ukrainian presidential election, the United States spent $65 million "to aid political organizations in Ukraine, paying to bring opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko to meet U.S. leaders and helping to underwrite exit polls indicating he won a disputed runoff election."[442] State Department spokesman Richard A. Boucher said that the U.S. money was not going to help a particular candidate, but to institutions that are necessary for free elections.[442] Freedom House and the National Democratic Institute also funded civic groups that counted votes and announced exit poll results.[443] In late November 2004, Senator Richard Lugar arrived in Kyiv as a representative of President George W. Bush and delivered a message to President Leonid Kuchma: "you play a central role in ensuring that Ukraine’s election is democratic and free of fraud and manipulation. A tarnished election, however, will lead us to review our relations with Ukraine."[444]

Theres just too much smoke from what I can see that backs up the sumup narrative for instance RFKjr says. And its consisntent over a long period of time.
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Kevin Kilbane
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simple solution. 

Zelensky is removed immediately and an independently run and monitored election occurs without CIA involvement and a democratic government is installed. 

Ukraine is de-nazified through legislation banning Nazism.

Areas that identify as ethnic Russian (also through independently run and monitored election(s)), if successful, are handed over to Russia and Ukraine borders are redrawn to reflect the democratic process.

NATO doesn't expend into Ukraine. 

War ends at midnight tonight. 


Edited by Mush Cassidys Donkey - 10 Apr 2024 at 5:28pm
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by Mush Cassidys Donkey Mush Cassidys Donkey wrote:

simple solution. 

Zelensky is removed immediately and an independently run and monitored election occurs without CIA involvement and a democratic government is installed. 

Ukraine is de-nazified through legislation banning Nazism.

Areas that identify as ethnic Russian (also through independently run and monitored election(s)), if successful, are handed over to Russia and Ukraine borders are redrawn to reflect the democratic process.
NATO doesn't expend into Ukraine. 

War ends at midnight tonight. 

You are such a clown it’s unbelievable.
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

That equally just sounds like rhetoric if you dont me saying.

The link I sent of the transcript shows I would say a heavy american involvement in the 2014 election. 

Russian was removed as a primary language disenfranchzing Russian Speakers. This this lead to Anti Russian Behaviour in the war that ensued in Eastern Ukraine? 

Was Crimea invsasion essentially peaceful and welcomed by alot of Crimeans.  

did Zelensky get in on a platform of peace? 

There is alot of resources out there that would back up all of these points and more.

Even from the link I shared yesterday about US involvement in Regime changes...

In the two years before the 2004 Ukrainian presidential election, the United States spent $65 million "to aid political organizations in Ukraine, paying to bring opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko to meet U.S. leaders and helping to underwrite exit polls indicating he won a disputed runoff election."[442] State Department spokesman Richard A. Boucher said that the U.S. money was not going to help a particular candidate, but to institutions that are necessary for free elections.[442] Freedom House and the National Democratic Institute also funded civic groups that counted votes and announced exit poll results.[443] In late November 2004, Senator Richard Lugar arrived in Kyiv as a representative of President George W. Bush and delivered a message to President Leonid Kuchma: "you play a central role in ensuring that Ukraine’s election is democratic and free of fraud and manipulation. A tarnished election, however, will lead us to review our relations with Ukraine."[444]

Theres just too much smoke from what I can see that backs up the sumup narrative for instance RFKjr says. And its consisntent over a long period of time.

Zelensky’s platform (whatever that may have been) was forced to change though when Russia invaded. The invasion has also had the blowback effect of bringing more nations into NATO’s orbit. Comments and statements about elections is not interference. Interference is ballot box stuffing, cyberwarfare, and the undermining of the electoral process. 2014 came on the back of revolutionary activity after the Government stopped representing the people. At that point Putin invaded, and that concurrent timeline is indicative of his mindset.
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Ray Houghton
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Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

That equally just sounds like rhetoric if you dont me saying.

The link I sent of the transcript shows I would say a heavy american involvement in the 2014 election. 

Russian was removed as a primary language disenfranchzing Russian Speakers. This this lead to Anti Russian Behaviour in the war that ensued in Eastern Ukraine? 

Was Crimea invsasion essentially peaceful and welcomed by alot of Crimeans.  

did Zelensky get in on a platform of peace? 

There is alot of resources out there that would back up all of these points and more.

Even from the link I shared yesterday about US involvement in Regime changes...

In the two years before the 2004 Ukrainian presidential election, the United States spent $65 million "to aid political organizations in Ukraine, paying to bring opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko to meet U.S. leaders and helping to underwrite exit polls indicating he won a disputed runoff election."[442] State Department spokesman Richard A. Boucher said that the U.S. money was not going to help a particular candidate, but to institutions that are necessary for free elections.[442] Freedom House and the National Democratic Institute also funded civic groups that counted votes and announced exit poll results.[443] In late November 2004, Senator Richard Lugar arrived in Kyiv as a representative of President George W. Bush and delivered a message to President Leonid Kuchma: "you play a central role in ensuring that Ukraine’s election is democratic and free of fraud and manipulation. A tarnished election, however, will lead us to review our relations with Ukraine."[444]

Theres just too much smoke from what I can see that backs up the sumup narrative for instance RFKjr says. And its consisntent over a long period of time.
Some food for thought. If Wales (maybe they already have) removed English as a primary language should England be aggrieved? 

If Ireland does it should we be denazified? 

Should Latvia be denazified for doing now exactly like Ukraine? In fact even more measures and deported many Russia's who refused to integrate back to Russia recently. 

Ukraine did remove the Russian language kinda like how Poland did with German before WW2. Hitler like Putin took this as a provocation while ignoring they'd already removed Polish/German as languages in their own countries. 

The Russians literally cleansed areas of now Russia which used to be predominantly ethnically Ukraine. Names changed from Ukrainian version to Russian, Russian language only thought. You can't have it both ways and now those cuties like Belgorod are now considered Russia not Ukraine. 
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Ray Houghton
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You may well be right and as I've always said there's 2 bad elements here in act
Tcan i ask is for every point please give atleast one source of refernece to back up your point.

All I see is trading narratives. 
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Ray Houghton
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Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

You may well be right and as I've always said there's 2 bad elements here in act
Tcan i ask is for every point please give atleast one source of refernece to back up your point.

All I see is trading narratives. 
I mean it's history you can look it up if you'd like.
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Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by Mush Cassidys Donkey Mush Cassidys Donkey wrote:

simple solution. 

Zelensky is removed immediately and an independently run and monitored election occurs without CIA involvement and a democratic government is installed. 

Ukraine is de-nazified through legislation banning Nazism.

Areas that identify as ethnic Russian (also through independently run and monitored election(s)), if successful, are handed over to Russia and Ukraine borders are redrawn to reflect the democratic process.
NATO doesn't expend into Ukraine. 

War ends at midnight tonight. 

You are such a clown it’s unbelievable.

Tory Boys solution....

Zelensky offered up as the greatest leader of all time and books should be written about him and thought to our kids for generations. CIA and the yanks continue to control the political scope of Ukraine for future generations. 

Ukraine has no problem with Nazi's and all existing Nazi's are free and reflective of modern Ukrainian culture & society.

All ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine and Crimea need to leave immediately and all lands returned to Ukraine.

Ukraine becomes a member of NATO and NATO can build multiple bases along the Russian border and within the Ukrainian hinterland. 

War ends at midnight tonight. 
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LOL

Shouldn't laugh but you are bang on Donkey 
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Ray Houghton
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Originally posted by Mush Cassidys Donkey Mush Cassidys Donkey wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by Mush Cassidys Donkey Mush Cassidys Donkey wrote:

simple solution. 

Zelensky is removed immediately and an independently run and monitored election occurs without CIA involvement and a democratic government is installed. 

Ukraine is de-nazified through legislation banning Nazism.

Areas that identify as ethnic Russian (also through independently run and monitored election(s)), if successful, are handed over to Russia and Ukraine borders are redrawn to reflect the democratic process.
NATO doesn't expend into Ukraine. 

War ends at midnight tonight. 

You are such a clown it’s unbelievable.

Tory Boys solution....

Zelensky offered up as the greatest leader of all time and books should be written about him and thought to our kids for generations. CIA and the yanks continue to control the political scope of Ukraine for future generations. 

Ukraine has no problem with Nazi's and all existing Nazi's are free and reflective of modern Ukrainian culture & society.

All ethnic Russians in Eastern Ukraine and Crimea need to leave immediately and all lands returned to Ukraine.

Ukraine becomes a member of NATO and NATO can build multiple bases along the Russian border and within the Ukrainian hinterland. 

War ends at midnight tonight. 


There have been plenty of public Nazi displays in the Arab world including Palestine over the years. Should they be denazified for this reason? Should Russia be for their large number of neo nazi ultra nationalists?
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