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doherty 
Jack Charlton
Teenage Kicks, so hard to beat
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 Posted: 22 Feb 2023 at 6:48pm |
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Why are we even discussing this rubbish about him going to England. Seriously like FFS
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I love beer gardens
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dangere_here
Kevin Kilbane
Joined: 24 Nov 2018
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Posted: 22 Feb 2023 at 6:48pm |
 The O'Shea wrote:
dangere_here wrote:
zizu Kilbane wrote:
You Tell Me wrote:
MC Hammered wrote:
Out of interest, where were Rice and Grealish in their respective careers in terms of appearances when they defected?Purely hypothetically, if England wanted to give Ferguson a PowerPoint presentation, where would he sit in their plans? They are stacked. What assurances could they give him at this point? |
England actually cap some relative crap when you look at some of the one and two cap players on the list in this link:
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Absolutely, again the big teams hold all the cards. England lose nothing by twisting his arm and capping him now. They can then sit back and see how he progresses. It's no skin of their back if his career stalls. |
That's the point I was trying to make above. And in the reverse, there's a reason why England didn't go after the likes of Clinton Morrison or Cyrus Christie, but if they were interested for whatever reason and they put on an English shirt, I wouldn't begrudge them the opportunity as footballers.
Kilbane would strike me as an obvious exception, but by an large the likes of Townsend, Aldo, Casc David Kelly, Chris Hughton, Chris Morris would have likely played for England if they were called up, Houghton Scotland and Sheedy with Wakes That doesn't make them less committed to the green shirt they wore, just the reality of the situation.
But let's not kid ourself that a lot of these middling crafters were sitting around listening to the Wolfe Tones and waiting Jack to be appointed so they could fulfil their destiny. Of course they would have played for England if that opportunity would have arisen first. |
Ironically, England went after both of the players you mention. Christie and Morrison were offered places in the England under 21's but opted for Ireland.
There's always been a lot of pontificating on here about "what players would have done", uttered with the kind of certainty which suggests an ability verging on telepathy. If you're going to question people's motives, at least know the facts. |
The Almighty has spoken, I'd say your best mates with them wha. Grat servants both but come off it pal if you think they'd have turned down a full cap over a chance to run around Baldonnel on a pissy Tuesday with Ian Evans or Guppy chasing them round
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The O'Shea
Jack Charlton
I know everything and I’m NEVER wrong
Joined: 16 Aug 2013
Location: Ireland
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Posted: 22 Feb 2023 at 8:48pm |
dangere_here wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
dangere_here wrote:
zizu Kilbane wrote:
You Tell Me wrote:
MC Hammered wrote:
Out of interest, where were Rice and Grealish in their respective careers in terms of appearances when they defected?Purely hypothetically, if England wanted to give Ferguson a PowerPoint presentation, where would he sit in their plans? They are stacked. What assurances could they give him at this point? |
England actually cap some relative crap when you look at some of the one and two cap players on the list in this link:
|
Absolutely, again the big teams hold all the cards. England lose nothing by twisting his arm and capping him now. They can then sit back and see how he progresses. It's no skin of their back if his career stalls. |
That's the point I was trying to make above. And in the reverse, there's a reason why England didn't go after the likes of Clinton Morrison or Cyrus Christie, but if they were interested for whatever reason and they put on an English shirt, I wouldn't begrudge them the opportunity as footballers.
Kilbane would strike me as an obvious exception, but by an large the likes of Townsend, Aldo, Casc David Kelly, Chris Hughton, Chris Morris would have likely played for England if they were called up, Houghton Scotland and Sheedy with Wakes That doesn't make them less committed to the green shirt they wore, just the reality of the situation.
But let's not kid ourself that a lot of these middling crafters were sitting around listening to the Wolfe Tones and waiting Jack to be appointed so they could fulfil their destiny. Of course they would have played for England if that opportunity would have arisen first. |
Ironically, England went after both of the players you mention. Christie and Morrison were offered places in the England under 21's but opted for Ireland.
There's always been a lot of pontificating on here about "what players would have done", uttered with the kind of certainty which suggests an ability verging on telepathy. If you're going to question people's motives, at least know the facts. |
The Almighty has spoken, I'd say your best mates with them wha. Grat servants both but come off it pal if you think they'd have turned down a full cap over a chance to run around Baldonnel on a pissy Tuesday with Ian Evans or Guppy chasing them round |
I don't know whether they'd have turned down a senior England cap, but I do know you're moving the goalposts. You said they'd never turn down England, but both of them did. That is the only thing that isn't conjecture.
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We're decent enough..
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dangere_here
Kevin Kilbane
Joined: 24 Nov 2018
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Posted: 22 Feb 2023 at 9:29pm |
The O'Shea wrote:
dangere_here wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
dangere_here wrote:
zizu Kilbane wrote:
You Tell Me wrote:
MC Hammered wrote:
Out of interest, where were Rice and Grealish in their respective careers in terms of appearances when they defected?Purely hypothetically, if England wanted to give Ferguson a PowerPoint presentation, where would he sit in their plans? They are stacked. What assurances could they give him at this point? |
England actually cap some relative crap when you look at some of the one and two cap players on the list in this link:
|
Absolutely, again the big teams hold all the cards. England lose nothing by twisting his arm and capping him now. They can then sit back and see how he progresses. It's no skin of their back if his career stalls. |
That's the point I was trying to make above. And in the reverse, there's a reason why England didn't go after the likes of Clinton Morrison or Cyrus Christie, but if they were interested for whatever reason and they put on an English shirt, I wouldn't begrudge them the opportunity as footballers.
Kilbane would strike me as an obvious exception, but by an large the likes of Townsend, Aldo, Casc David Kelly, Chris Hughton, Chris Morris would have likely played for England if they were called up, Houghton Scotland and Sheedy with Wakes That doesn't make them less committed to the green shirt they wore, just the reality of the situation.
But let's not kid ourself that a lot of these middling crafters were sitting around listening to the Wolfe Tones and waiting Jack to be appointed so they could fulfil their destiny. Of course they would have played for England if that opportunity would have arisen first. |
Ironically, England went after both of the players you mention. Christie and Morrison were offered places in the England under 21's but opted for Ireland.
There's always been a lot of pontificating on here about "what players would have done", uttered with the kind of certainty which suggests an ability verging on telepathy. If you're going to question people's motives, at least know the facts. |
The Almighty has spoken, I'd say your best mates with them wha. Grat servants both but come off it pal if you think they'd have turned down a full cap over a chance to run around Baldonnel on a pissy Tuesday with Ian Evans or Guppy chasing them round |
I don't know whether they'd have turned down a senior England cap, but I do know you're moving the goalposts. You said they'd never turn down England, but both of them did. That is the only thing that isn't conjecture. |
You have a fair point for once pal but I can only see them choosing a senior England cap if that was ever an option,and the U21 thing as more a confirmation that ship had sailed and Ireland was next best. I suppose reverse examples would be the likes of Tony Adams and Rooney.
Edited by dangere_here - 22 Feb 2023 at 9:30pm
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The O'Shea
Jack Charlton
I know everything and I’m NEVER wrong
Joined: 16 Aug 2013
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
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Posted: 22 Feb 2023 at 9:50pm |
dangere_here wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
dangere_here wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
dangere_here wrote:
zizu Kilbane wrote:
You Tell Me wrote:
MC Hammered wrote:
Out of interest, where were Rice and Grealish in their respective careers in terms of appearances when they defected?Purely hypothetically, if England wanted to give Ferguson a PowerPoint presentation, where would he sit in their plans? They are stacked. What assurances could they give him at this point? |
England actually cap some relative crap when you look at some of the one and two cap players on the list in this link:
|
Absolutely, again the big teams hold all the cards. England lose nothing by twisting his arm and capping him now. They can then sit back and see how he progresses. It's no skin of their back if his career stalls. |
That's the point I was trying to make above. And in the reverse, there's a reason why England didn't go after the likes of Clinton Morrison or Cyrus Christie, but if they were interested for whatever reason and they put on an English shirt, I wouldn't begrudge them the opportunity as footballers.
Kilbane would strike me as an obvious exception, but by an large the likes of Townsend, Aldo, Casc David Kelly, Chris Hughton, Chris Morris would have likely played for England if they were called up, Houghton Scotland and Sheedy with Wakes That doesn't make them less committed to the green shirt they wore, just the reality of the situation.
But let's not kid ourself that a lot of these middling crafters were sitting around listening to the Wolfe Tones and waiting Jack to be appointed so they could fulfil their destiny. Of course they would have played for England if that opportunity would have arisen first. |
Ironically, England went after both of the players you mention. Christie and Morrison were offered places in the England under 21's but opted for Ireland.
There's always been a lot of pontificating on here about "what players would have done", uttered with the kind of certainty which suggests an ability verging on telepathy. If you're going to question people's motives, at least know the facts. |
The Almighty has spoken, I'd say your best mates with them wha. Grat servants both but come off it pal if you think they'd have turned down a full cap over a chance to run around Baldonnel on a pissy Tuesday with Ian Evans or Guppy chasing them round |
I don't know whether they'd have turned down a senior England cap, but I do know you're moving the goalposts. You said they'd never turn down England, but both of them did. That is the only thing that isn't conjecture. |
You have a fair point for once pal but I can only see them choosing a senior England cap if that was ever an option,and the U21 thing as more a confirmation that ship had sailed and Ireland was next best. I suppose reverse examples would be the likes of Tony Adams and Rooney.
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I don't see how an under 21 call up could be interpreted as "the ship has sailed" though, surely it's the exact opposite? You're 21 or ypunger and you're being asked to join the squad immediately below the seniors, if anything it's a confirmation you have a good chance of winning senior caps in future if that is what you actually want.
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We're decent enough..
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Conan
Davey Langan
I’m not very bright.
Joined: 11 Mar 2015
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Posted: 22 Feb 2023 at 10:50pm |
Greener92 wrote:
Not happening, non-story. The lad is Irish to the bone as are his family |
Except his English mother and grandparents
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RichStrike
Joe Lapira
Joined: 22 Feb 2023
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Posted: 22 Feb 2023 at 11:08pm |
Conan wrote:
Greener92 wrote:
Not happening, non-story. The lad is Irish to the bone as are his family |
Except his English mother and grandparents |
However he was raised in Ireland. That's the key difference with the obvious comparisons to Grealish/Rice, even Keane. All three where Irish descent raised in England, surrounded by not only the English culture but also friends going through school and no doubt they all pretended to be Beckham or Owen during PE.
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dangere_here
Kevin Kilbane
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Posted: 23 Feb 2023 at 1:24am |
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He wore Reebok's in school once and doesn't know the lyrics to Give it a Lash Jack..
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The Huntacha
Roy Keane
Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Location: Dubai
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Posted: 23 Feb 2023 at 4:12am |
dangere_here wrote:
He wore Reebok's in school once and doesn't know the lyrics to Give it a Lash Jack.. |
And didn't tippex out the butchers apron, a clear sign he's going to play for them.
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Jimmy Bullard - "Favorite band? Elastic."
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Greener92
Davey Langan
Joined: 14 Oct 2021
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Posted: 23 Feb 2023 at 7:35am |
Conan wrote:
Greener92 wrote:
Not happening, non-story. The lad is Irish to the bone as are his family |
Except his English mother and grandparents |
Except she is a proud Irish woman that was born in England. Get the facts right
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You Tell Me
Jack Charlton
Joined: 05 Sep 2010
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Posted: 23 Feb 2023 at 7:39am |
Greenie50 wrote:
zizu Kilbane wrote:
Absolutely, again the big teams hold all the cards. England lose nothing by twisting his arm and capping him now. They can then sit back and see how he progresses. It's no skin of their back if his career stalls. |
Is there not a 3 years wait period from the original Caps to becoming eligible to switch?
"it is now possible for a player to change national team even if they have played competitively at senior level, provided:
- the player held the nationality of their new association at the
time of their first official appearance for their first national team.
- the player played in no more than three competitive senior games before the age of 21.
- the player has not played in the final stage of an official
tournament such as the World Cup, European Championship, Copa America
etc.
- at least three years have passed since the player's last senior appearance for their previous national team."
Not that it matters, this whole thing is just the result of a load of sh*t-stirring by a certain poster. Ferguson isn't going anywhere.
t_rAndy wrote:
When is Kenny naming his squad? Are there enough days in between for the forum to completely meltdown?
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About 3 weeks from now, probably 16th or 17th. Squad meets up on the 19th/20th.
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The three years thing is only if we had competitively capped him. We only capped him in friendlies so the three years isn't relevant here.
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The O'Shea
Jack Charlton
I know everything and I’m NEVER wrong
Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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Posted: 23 Feb 2023 at 8:03am |
Greener92 wrote:
Conan wrote:
Greener92 wrote:
Not happening, non-story. The lad is Irish to the bone as are his family |
Except his English mother and grandparents |
Except she is a proud Irish woman that was born in England. Get the facts right |
Is his mother from an Irish background? I had thought she was born there/had English parents etc.
Edited by The O'Shea - 23 Feb 2023 at 8:12am
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We're decent enough..
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Greener92
Davey Langan
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Posted: 23 Feb 2023 at 8:10am |
The O'Shea wrote:
Greener92 wrote:
Conan wrote:
Greener92 wrote:
Not happening, non-story. The lad is Irish to the bone as are his family |
Except his English mother and grandparents |
Except she is a proud Irish woman that was born in England. Get the facts right |
Is his mother from an Irish background? I had thought she was born there/had Emglish parents etc. |
No Irish background AFAIK. Must feel more Irish than English as she is a proud Irish woman
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King_Kenny
Liam Brady
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Posted: 23 Feb 2023 at 11:19am |
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Maybe that Fabinho tackle got him thinking. I need to get as much money out of this before some other donkey cripples me.
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TheNumber6
Kevin Kilbane
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Posted: 23 Feb 2023 at 2:36pm |
Dan McDonnell said as much on OTB yday re his mother’s Englishness not exactly as thorough as initially presented.
Quit the gossip, the lad will play for us. The paranoia is only succumbing to gutter journalism and Brexit tiktokers who sleep with the light on.
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Paulie
Liam Brady
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Posted: 23 Feb 2023 at 3:05pm |
TheNumber6 wrote:
Dan McDonnell said as much on OTB yday re his mother’s Englishness not exactly as thorough as initially presented.
Quit the gossip, the lad will play for us. The paranoia is only succumbing to gutter journalism and Brexit tiktokers who sleep with the light on. |
They weren't actually talking about this on OTB were they? I'm not surprised it's being discussed here but I'd have thought that the media would collectively roll their eyes and move on.
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MC Hammered
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 23 Feb 2023 at 3:34pm |
Lads, I dont want to alarm anyone but I just saw Evan Ferguson and Jacob Rees Moggs throwing plastic patio furniture around the street and singing Vindaloo.
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El Puto Amo
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Gaz
Moderator Group
You'll always be Gazsh to me.
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Posted: 23 Feb 2023 at 3:43pm |
MC Hammered wrote:
Lads, I dont want to alarm anyone but I just saw Evan Ferguson and Jacob Rees Moggs throwing plastic patio furniture around the street and singing Vindaloo. |
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I dont email the count anymore, its been 9 months : ( He even sent me a YBIG scarf for my Birthday
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