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84ccfc84
Kevin Kilbane
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Posted: 28 Dec 2022 at 5:25pm |
E2016 wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
E2016 wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
E2016 wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
TheNumber6 wrote:
19 senior games isn’t a body of work consistent with providing a definitive measure of one’s quality at the age of 24. |
If you'd never watched Lionel Messi before, and you only got to watch the 7 games he played at the world cup, would you need more evidence to conclude that he was an outstanding footballer?
Kelleher has played 19 games for Liverpool's first team, 9 games for Ireland seniors, and 10 games for the Under-21's - and he has impressed in most of them. If you still can't tell whether he's a good goalkeeper or not, it's only because you are a bad judge of player. |
Trying to equate Messi and Kelleher now. Bloody brilliant.
But funnily enough, if you remove Messi from your atrocious argument, there have been numerous examples of players getting moves based on a handful of games at international tournaments and flopping afterword. Clearly demonstrating that a greater body of work should be taken into account before making judgements.
The only bad judge of player is the person over hyping a sub keeper based off essentially f*ck all games when playing for a team that has been winning with ease for years. |
Congratulations on failing to understand what metaphorical reasoning is |
Thanks, post me out my award when you're done talking clueless, embarrassing waffle.
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If you honestly think the point of the post is to compare Kelleher (a goalkeeper) to Messi (the greatest outfield player of all time), then I'm unsurprised your level of intelligence doesn't allow you to make a call on a players quality from a 38 game sample. |
I'm well aware that the point of the post was that you can make snap judgements on players off an extremely small sample size of games, which as I've already said is just an abysmal take. Especially given that you used the World Cup as an example for this sample size of games, which has famously led to a truckload of players being bought off their performances there and flopping afterward.
Thereby clearly indicating the need for more games to judge a player off. Especially in the case of Carabao Caoimh who has played barely any games in goal for one of the most dominant teams in Europe. Plenty of top teams have been able to rotate in a number two over the years in damp squib fixtures who hasnt made a show of themselves. That doesnt mean that they have great ability. It's very obviously impossible to judge when the sample size is so low and the majority of the games are unimportant.
The cherry on top of your sh*t sundae was you utilising Messi as an example, regardless of your intentions with 'metaphorical reasoning' - you've still used Messi as a direct comparison to Kelleher. Now run along.
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hmmm i dont think so but keep calling him carabao caoimh if that makes you feel better!
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E2016
Liam Brady
Joined: 13 Jan 2016
Location: Cork
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Posted: 28 Dec 2022 at 11:56pm |
84ccfc84 wrote:
E2016 wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
E2016 wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
E2016 wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
TheNumber6 wrote:
19 senior games isn’t a body of work consistent with providing a definitive measure of one’s quality at the age of 24. |
If you'd never watched Lionel Messi before, and you only got to watch the 7 games he played at the world cup, would you need more evidence to conclude that he was an outstanding footballer?
Kelleher has played 19 games for Liverpool's first team, 9 games for Ireland seniors, and 10 games for the Under-21's - and he has impressed in most of them. If you still can't tell whether he's a good goalkeeper or not, it's only because you are a bad judge of player. |
Trying to equate Messi and Kelleher now. Bloody brilliant.
But funnily enough, if you remove Messi from your atrocious argument, there have been numerous examples of players getting moves based on a handful of games at international tournaments and flopping afterword. Clearly demonstrating that a greater body of work should be taken into account before making judgements.
The only bad judge of player is the person over hyping a sub keeper based off essentially f*ck all games when playing for a team that has been winning with ease for years. |
Congratulations on failing to understand what metaphorical reasoning is |
Thanks, post me out my award when you're done talking clueless, embarrassing waffle.
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If you honestly think the point of the post is to compare Kelleher (a goalkeeper) to Messi (the greatest outfield player of all time), then I'm unsurprised your level of intelligence doesn't allow you to make a call on a players quality from a 38 game sample. |
I'm well aware that the point of the post was that you can make snap judgements on players off an extremely small sample size of games, which as I've already said is just an abysmal take. Especially given that you used the World Cup as an example for this sample size of games, which has famously led to a truckload of players being bought off their performances there and flopping afterward.
Thereby clearly indicating the need for more games to judge a player off. Especially in the case of Carabao Caoimh who has played barely any games in goal for one of the most dominant teams in Europe. Plenty of top teams have been able to rotate in a number two over the years in damp squib fixtures who hasnt made a show of themselves. That doesnt mean that they have great ability. It's very obviously impossible to judge when the sample size is so low and the majority of the games are unimportant.
The cherry on top of your sh*t sundae was you utilising Messi as an example, regardless of your intentions with 'metaphorical reasoning' - you've still used Messi as a direct comparison to Kelleher. Now run along.
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hmmm i dont think so but keep calling him carabao caoimh if that makes you feel better! |
You dont think that number 2 keepers have been able to come in for League cup games and dead rubbers at other teams and not embarass themselves?
United had Van Der Gouw, Kuszczak and Lindegaard alone during times when they were at the top, who were long term number 2's and were able to play in these games and not embarass themselves. Sometimes they even played well. Never once did anybody think that these players were good enough to start games at top teams, just because they didnt disgrace themselves in their extremely limited appearances with United, in mostly dead rubber games, when United were much better than they are now.
Until Kelleher decides to show some ambition and attempt to actually play football nobody can say what he is. Acting like he is better than other keepers who start week in week out, purely because he doesnt get on the pitch enough to make mistakes, is just nonsense. Acting like there is nothing between Kelleher and two lads who start week in week out and actually put themselves out there, have a go and take the risk of making a mistake is mental. Acting like Kelleher has shown elite levels of ability in his extremely limited showings in a Mickey Mouse cup for Liverpool, is nonsense. Bazunu has 4 times the amount of premier league appearances as Kelleher does, already.
Bazunu is making mistakes at the moment but at least he had the ambition to try and make them. Should stand to him down the line, certainly more than if he was trotted out for Man City 2 times a season.
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Fatnacho
Kevin Kilbane
Joined: 12 Feb 2016
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Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 7:39am |
E2016 wrote:
84ccfc84 wrote:
E2016 wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
E2016 wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
E2016 wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
TheNumber6 wrote:
19 senior games isn’t a body of work consistent with providing a definitive measure of one’s quality at the age of 24. |
If you'd never watched Lionel Messi before, and you only got to watch the 7 games he played at the world cup, would you need more evidence to conclude that he was an outstanding footballer?
Kelleher has played 19 games for Liverpool's first team, 9 games for Ireland seniors, and 10 games for the Under-21's - and he has impressed in most of them. If you still can't tell whether he's a good goalkeeper or not, it's only because you are a bad judge of player. |
Trying to equate Messi and Kelleher now. Bloody brilliant.
But funnily enough, if you remove Messi from your atrocious argument, there have been numerous examples of players getting moves based on a handful of games at international tournaments and flopping afterword. Clearly demonstrating that a greater body of work should be taken into account before making judgements.
The only bad judge of player is the person over hyping a sub keeper based off essentially f*ck all games when playing for a team that has been winning with ease for years. |
Congratulations on failing to understand what metaphorical reasoning is |
Thanks, post me out my award when you're done talking clueless, embarrassing waffle.
|
If you honestly think the point of the post is to compare Kelleher (a goalkeeper) to Messi (the greatest outfield player of all time), then I'm unsurprised your level of intelligence doesn't allow you to make a call on a players quality from a 38 game sample. |
I'm well aware that the point of the post was that you can make snap judgements on players off an extremely small sample size of games, which as I've already said is just an abysmal take. Especially given that you used the World Cup as an example for this sample size of games, which has famously led to a truckload of players being bought off their performances there and flopping afterward.
Thereby clearly indicating the need for more games to judge a player off. Especially in the case of Carabao Caoimh who has played barely any games in goal for one of the most dominant teams in Europe. Plenty of top teams have been able to rotate in a number two over the years in damp squib fixtures who hasnt made a show of themselves. That doesnt mean that they have great ability. It's very obviously impossible to judge when the sample size is so low and the majority of the games are unimportant.
The cherry on top of your sh*t sundae was you utilising Messi as an example, regardless of your intentions with 'metaphorical reasoning' - you've still used Messi as a direct comparison to Kelleher. Now run along.
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hmmm i dont think so but keep calling him carabao caoimh if that makes you feel better! |
You dont think that number 2 keepers have been able to come in for League cup games and dead rubbers at other teams and not embarass themselves?
United had Van Der Gouw, Kuszczak and Lindegaard alone during times when they were at the top, who were long term number 2's and were able to play in these games and not embarass themselves. Sometimes they even played well. Never once did anybody think that these players were good enough to start games at top teams, just because they didnt disgrace themselves in their extremely limited appearances with United, in mostly dead rubber games, when United were much better than they are now.
Until Kelleher decides to show some ambition and attempt to actually play football nobody can say what he is. Acting like he is better than other keepers who start week in week out, purely because he doesnt get on the pitch enough to make mistakes, is just nonsense. Acting like there is nothing between Kelleher and two lads who start week in week out and actually put themselves out there, have a go and take the risk of making a mistake is mental. Acting like Kelleher has shown elite levels of ability in his extremely limited showings in a Mickey Mouse cup for Liverpool, is nonsense. Bazunu has 4 times the amount of premier league appearances as Kelleher does, already.
Bazunu is making mistakes at the moment but at least he had the ambition to try and make them. Should stand to him down the line, certainly more than if he was trotted out for Man City 2 times a season. |
So basically, the argument is that it doesn’t matter how badly Bazunu performs each week as long as he’s playing???? Yes, goalkeepers make mistakes but the frequency recently does raise question marks. Problem is that he won’t be playing much longer if his bad form continues. He plays behind a bad defence at Southampton but he doesn’t have much better on the national team to bail him out at international level either. Still think he has enough credit in the bank to be no.1 for the national team but it’s not as indisputable as back in the summer. In regards to Kelleher, there’s no need to denigrate his career so far. How many Irish players have played a pivotal role in winning a trophy recently? You can call it a Mickey Mouse cup but it’s more than anybody in the recent Irish squad has ever won.
Edited by Fatnacho - 29 Dec 2022 at 7:43am
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E2016
Liam Brady
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Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 10:58am |
Only by playing regular football can the ability of a player be judged. Not over 3 games a season.
After that we can see who is playing where, and how well they are playing.
Bazunu is playing regular games now at the highest level and there are obvious areas he can improve. Same with Travers. We know that there are areas he can improve because he has been playing enough games to show the areas that need work. I know a special, gifted few need only watch Kelleher play a few times in the Carabao cup over the space of 3-4 years to know exactly how good Kelleher is, same as a randomer would only need to watch the world cup to know how good Messi is, but the normal folk among us might wonder how he would do facing as many shots as Bazunu is. Or how he would fare playing out from the back against teams that arent completely terrified of you and sit off, allowing you to pick your passes. Or how he would deal with the pressure of playing in games where the top flight future of the club is on the line, rather than having 3 games a season mostly confined to a tournament that the manager sees as an inconvenience.
Were Bazunu still at Man City and trotted out twice a season to take part in a Mickey Mouse cup, he would undoubtedly not be making some of the errors he is now, and any judgement on him would be pretty worthless.
So yes, playing games trumps sitting around on your arse for years. These games should stand to Bazunu down the line.
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84ccfc84
Kevin Kilbane
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Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 11:20am |
bazunu wouldnt be 2nd choice at man city though, thats why he left. "sitting around on your arse for years" lol. Kelleher has only been in the first team squad for 2 years. its hardly been detrimental to his development no less than going to rochdale was to bazunus rise.
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You Tell Me
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 12:06pm |
For what it's worth, I'd say there's every chance Bazunu would have been Number 2 at City this season if he had chosen to stay on.
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John Nice
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 12:21pm |
You Tell Me wrote:
For what it's worth, I'd say there's every chance Bazunu would have been Number 2 at City this season if he had chosen to stay on. |
For what its worth, I wouldnt!
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Idah Dream!
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The O'Shea
Jack Charlton
I know everything and I’m NEVER wrong
Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 12:24pm |
John Nice wrote:
You Tell Me wrote:
For what it's worth, I'd say there's every chance Bazunu would have been Number 2 at City this season if he had chosen to stay on. |
For what its worth, I wouldnt! |
Ortega is a very good keeper, I don't think Bazunu would be ahead of him currently. Then again, they may well not have signed him if Bazunu had stayed.
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We're decent enough..
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kevin100
Ray Houghton
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Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 12:31pm |
The O'Shea wrote:
John Nice wrote:
You Tell Me wrote:
For what it's worth, I'd say there's every chance Bazunu would have been Number 2 at City this season if he had chosen to stay on. |
For what its worth, I wouldnt! |
Ortega is a very good keeper, I don't think Bazunu would be ahead of him currently. Then again, they may well not have signed him if Bazunu had stayed. |
It was well documented by very good sources that City wanted to keep Bazunu as back up! They signed Ortega after Bazunu left!
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You Tell Me
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 29 Dec 2022 at 1:55pm |
John Nice wrote:
You Tell Me wrote:
For what it's worth, I'd say there's every chance Bazunu would have been Number 2 at City this season if he had chosen to stay on. |
For what its worth, I wouldnt! |
I doubt they'd have signed Ortega if he had stayed. You think Scott Carson would have been ahead of him?
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kevin100
Ray Houghton
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Posted: 31 Dec 2022 at 2:17pm |
Hope to god he can keep a clean sheet in this game today! Fulham playing well but it’s the sort of game Southampton can nick!
I was fully expecting him to be dropped!
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djhegzy
Liam Brady
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Posted: 31 Dec 2022 at 2:20pm |
kevin100 wrote:
Hope to god he can keep a clean sheet in this game today! Fulham playing well but it’s the sort of game Southampton can nick!
I was fully expecting him to be dropped! |
Same as, but their #2 is still injured
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You Tell Me
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 31 Dec 2022 at 2:26pm |
It's either him or a 41 year old training goalkeeper at the moment, so he stays in for now. Could really do with a good game today though.
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kevin100
Ray Houghton
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Posted: 31 Dec 2022 at 2:38pm |
Yeah he’s been given an opportunity if ever a player could do with a clean sheet or his team just winning it’s him! Hard to drop them if they somehow win! Fulham won’t be easy to keep out
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Mr. Snrub
Liam Brady
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Posted: 31 Dec 2022 at 4:58pm |
Saves a penalty from Mitrovic, should boost his confidence
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"Here's Robbie Keane...... yeeeessss! That is no more than Ireland deserve!"
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DublinScouse1916
Kevin Kilbane
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Posted: 31 Dec 2022 at 5:35pm |
Mr. Snrub wrote:
Saves a penalty from Mitrovic, should boost his confidence |
A penalty he caused too. Flaps more in the air than a pigeon
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The O'Shea
Jack Charlton
I know everything and I’m NEVER wrong
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Posted: 31 Dec 2022 at 5:44pm |
DublinScouse1916 wrote:
Mr. Snrub wrote:
Saves a penalty from Mitrovic, should boost his confidence |
A penalty he caused too. Flaps more in the air than a pigeon |
Sick burn bro
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We're decent enough..
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You Tell Me
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 31 Dec 2022 at 6:48pm |
More flaps than Pornhub was a better line I saw about him online earlier. Some truth in it at the moment unfortunately.
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