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MayoMark View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

if I did a survey of my mates I would say f**k all of them
have any interest in horse racing.  

I agree that perhaps the leading story is over the top, but I don't agree that it is blown out of proportion. 

And I don't believe that you need an interest in horse racing either. An enormous amount of tax payers money goes into it and I think therefor this story is in the public interest. I have no real time for it at all to be honest. 
They finally did it man... They killed my f**kin' car...
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Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

if I did a survey of my mates I would say f**k all of them
have any interest in horse racing.  

I agree that perhaps the leading story is over the top, but I don't agree that it is blown out of proportion. 

And I don't believe that you need an interest in horse racing either. An enormous amount of tax payers money goes into it and I think therefor this story is in the public interest. I have no real time for it at all to be honest. 
That's where the debate should be. For a lot of people, those at home who have no interest in it, that are constantly told how much these people love and respect these animals. I can't imagine this fits in with that narrative.
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Horse racing is popular with sections of Ireland which I imagine wouldn't be very well represented on this forum

It's hard to get a handle on how popular it really is 

A lot of rural types on social media seem to go mad for it and that's where the real interest in the sport itself seems to be

Then you have lads wasting their lives in pubs and bookies' shops who I imagine are less vocal on social media 

As well as your high flying Official Ireland Celtic Tiger types who were well represented on the Marian Finucane Show, which was sort of the house broadcast for the racing industry

So much of racing is centred on the betting industry though 

How much real interest in the actual sport itself is there is moot

It has connections to promote it in the media as a big thing

I'd be a very, very, very fair weather follower of horse racing, I used to have a small bit of interest in Cheltenham and the likes but it's pretty much just the Grand National I'd have any interest in now

Nevertheless I'd be well familiar with Elliott as a personality, so it is big news
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Did the Delaney story lead the news when it broke ? It may well have. 

Edited by Baldrick - 05 Mar 2021 at 10:12pm
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truth be told there is probably more people interested in the Harry and Megan story and that interview than there is in horse racing and Elliot. 
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I think there's little doubt that horse racing wouldn't exist without the gambling element. I'm not sure that it being subsidised by the taxpayer is a very good thing. I'm not particularly comfortable with it
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

[QUOTE=Baldrick]mad that this was headline news.  You would swear he murdered someone.  6 months seems about right. 

You don't think a story that has caused immeasurable damage to a major sport is headline news?? 
[/QUO/TE]

It was the lead story on the six one news.  I don’t think it’s something that will impact the vast majority of people in Ireland.  I think the story has been overblown and he mad been public enemy number one for something in the grand scheme of things is much further down the scale than many of the horrible things that are committed day in day out.  The way it has been covered you would swear he was a murderer. I think it’s probably anything but covid on the news and covid fatigue.  Again not defending his actions and I think punishment is about right.  

Sometimes every few months there are stories that gain traction for some reason and are blown totally out of proportion.  I think golf gate was another one (quite time of year was the explanation for that one). 

There's huge interest in this country and Britain when it comes to horseracing so it's not surprising it was a lead story. I'm sure it's not the first lead story that was on six one which had a somewhat sporting context (Italia 90/Saipan) that didn't directly affect the vast majority of people in Ireland. 

I personally have no interest in horseracing or have anything against it either but it's a disgusting image and probably tells us something about him as a person. The other image of the jockey was even worse from a few years before. 

I suppose his saving grace would be that the animal was dead. I'd imagine if it was a photo of him engaging in animal abuse while the horse was still alive the punishment would've been heavier. 
It's not anywhere near as popular in Ireland. There's a bit of fuss about the Grand National, but otherwise it is a niche posh interest and not a whole lot more. A few boys I know would enjoy a bet, but again, nowhere near the level at home. It certainly isn't a huge interest. 
If it wasn't for reading  this thread I wouldn't know who Gordon Elliott is and I doubt it is much of a topic of conversation here. Maybe down the road in Newmarket or places like that.

I always assumed given how well known Royal Ascot/Cheltenham etc etc are then it would just be as popular in Britain as it is here.

Poor auld Gordon will probably be shunned at the Chicory Tip Incest Cup this year. 
Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
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In rich farming areas and with the upper classes it is very popular. It would have a very different draw to in Ireland where Sid's description of its popularity would be how I see it. It certainly doesn't have the same broad appeal here. I would say it would traditionally be most popular in areas with large Irish communities. 
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Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

I think there's little doubt that horse racing wouldn't exist without the gambling element. I'm not sure that it being subsidised by the taxpayer is a very good thing. I'm not particularly comfortable with it
There is something not right about funding something as addictive as gambling while simultaneously criminalising social drug users and punishing addicts.
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Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

if I did a survey of my mates I would say f**k all of them
have any interest in horse racing.  

My survey came back with 90% having an interest.

Good times.
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Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

if I did a survey of my mates I would say f**k all of them
have any interest in horse racing.  

My survey came back with 90% having an interest.

Good times.

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Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

if I did a survey of my mates I would say f**k all of them
have any interest in horse racing.  

My survey came back with 90% having an interest.

Good times.


Well I doubt your mates are representative of Irish society in this instance.  Not saying the lads I knock around with are but the post was in a response to muf implying that racing is a big deal in Ireland.  It gets more coverage than the amount of people who are interested in it justifies largely because of gambling as PM as stated.  

In England cricket gets far more coverage than rugby league does yet rugby league has a bigger fan base the problem being they are working class northerners. 

Racing is part of the cosy class in this country and gets treated with kid gloves. 


Edited by Baldrick - 05 Mar 2021 at 11:48pm
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I'm struggling to see the difference between sitting on a dead dear, a dead horse or a dead cow. All are eaten by humans. Serious witch hunt went on here. 
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Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

if I did a survey of my mates I would say f**k all of them
have any interest in horse racing.  

My survey came back with 90% having an interest.

Good times.


Well I doubt your mates are representative of Irish society in this instance.  Not saying the lads I knock around with are but the post was in a response to muf implying that racing is a big deal in Ireland.  It gets more coverage than the amount of people who are interested in it justifies largely because of gambling as PM as stated.  

In England cricket gets far more coverage than rugby league does yet rugby league has a bigger fan base the problem being they are working class northerners. 

Racing is part of the cosy class in this country and gets treated with kid gloves. 
Cricket has a decent enough working class support base in England, most of them wouldn't attend matches but there would certainly be decent enough fair weather television interest in the big events involving England and the crowds at test matches would by no means be all upper class

There always has been a reasonable working class interest there - if you watched NatWest Trophy matches years ago counties would even bring their own mini-Kops to away matches on Wednesday afternoons

The game has changed though and county cricket has been very much downgraded in the popular imagination

Cricket is the sort of game where fee paying schoolboys have a big advantage over comprehensive schoolboys in terms of development, especially in terms of batting - the posh schools have all the money for facilities

BBC used to cover Rugby League a lot when I was growing up and I would venture that quite a few Irishmen like myself would have a surprising amount of knowledge about late 80s/early 90s rugby league - especially that Wigan team that won the Challenge Cup every year - but the the game sold its soul to Sky and it didn't benefit from that

Football's ever increasing dominance has harmed other sports a lot

Rugby, golf and racing and heavily pushed in terms of coverage in this country because the business class are into them 

Racing would probably have the most diverse following of the three in terms of its appeal being cross-class, but the working class interest is definitely driven by betting
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don’t disagree with that Sid but I read a report a number of years ago that rugby league gets the least amount of media coverage in Uk per person who attends the games and cricket gets the most.  

That may have changed over the last 5 years.   


Edited by Baldrick - 06 Mar 2021 at 1:25am
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Originally posted by eireland eireland wrote:

I'm struggling to see the difference between sitting on a dead dear, a dead horse or a dead cow. All are eaten by humans. Serious witch hunt went on here. 
If you're to take the photo on its own merits, it's a bit much for Elliott to lose his career over, I think he deserves a suspension for it - but he disrespected a dead animal - and the least you'd expect is that horse trainers have respect for animals, alive or dead

The size of Elliott's operation feeds into the idea that it is effectively an industrial thing with much less of the "personal touch" you might expect from small yards - the idea that horses are effectively pieces of meat to him and have no use to him beyond their ability to win races, that once they're done in terms of being able to race, their welfare is not a priority

Perception is everything and being seen to disrespect a dead animal is poison in terms of perception

People quite reasonably form the opinion that this disrespect is unlikely to be a one off thing rather than a momentary lapse caught on camera and taken out of context, and is unlikely to just be confined to dead animals

So sponsors start pulling out, owners remove horses and owners are much less likely to place horses with him

My opinion of somebody would be lowered if I saw them disrespecting a dead cow, a dead fox or even a dead bird

All animals should be respected, dead or alive - but the horse has a pretty elevated position in terms of the animal kingdom in the human imagination - they are rightly classed as magnificent creatures 

So for somebody whose job is to take care of them and nurture them to be seen disrespecting a dead one hits at people's sense of basic empathy and evokes an anger

He's going to have a really hard time recovering from this
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Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

don’t disagree with that Sid but I read a report a number of years ago that rugby league gets the least amount of media coverage in Uk per person who attends the games and cricket gets the most.  

That may have changed over the last 5 years.   
Cricket has the England national team and test series are a long established part of the English sporting summer, plus the World Cup

Rugby League's international outlet is very limited, there are only three teams who are any use at all and Australia are clearly ahead of England and NZ

The peak of the interest I think was when I was growing up and there were some good test series between Great Britain and Australia, it was a biennial thing, they'd play for the Ashes, 1990, 1992 and 1994 were all pretty high profile series

The GB team had a good few players who had crossed over from Rugby Union - Martin Offiah, Jonathan Davies and a few other Welsh lads - those players were familiar to Union viewers which broadened the appeal - Wales actually brought a big support to a World Cup semi-final with a lot of former Wales Rugby Union internationals playing - 1995 it was

However a few things happened right around that time which scuppered League

Rugby Union went professional which stopped the defection of familar Rugby Union names - in fact the flow started reversing - Jason Robinson, Henry Paul and Andy Farrell went to Union as well as a lot of Australians leaving League to play for the Wallabies

The professionalisation of Rugby Union meant that it became very much the dominant code of rugby, it was attractive to sponsors and media, and retained a good free TV presence, which pushed out Rugby League

Super League started which increasingly siloed League away on Sky, thus removing it from the public consciousness - the big showpiece event, the Challenge Cup final which got a fairly big audience diminished in value within the sport itself - it sort of went the way that the FA Cup did in football - and the sport was now played in summer rather than winter, which I don't think has ever worked

The Ashes test series stopped as well when Super League came in, I don't think there has been a proper series since 1994

But certainly Rugby League does suffer because it's not a sexy corporate product, it isn't very attractive to sponsors or advertisers, and there are very few people in the English media class in general who come from a Rugby League background
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I think rugby league gets an average attendance of 8,000 at its matches and county cricket average attendance is anything between 2000 and 6000 depending on the county. 
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