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Olaf View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
Kevin Kilbane


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Points: 269 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Olaf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2020 at 12:48pm
Do Irish papers print gang stabbings in Manchester or London, daily? As that’s what occurs here, no they don’t. 

I’m mind boggled to this one now. Papers print what sells papers and what their readers want to read, as ultimately a paper is a business. Without papers selling they go bankrupt. If the Guardian started printing pieces on supporting Gove they’d lose sales. Visa versa if the Telegrath/Times started printing support for Corbyn they’d lose sales also. 
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sid waddell View Drop Down
Roy Keane
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Points: 12173 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2020 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by Huggybeer Huggybeer wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Huggybeer Huggybeer wrote:

Need to be careful, with all media not just social, when the story of John Pender being stabbed in spain broke, i checked most English newspapers and none carried the story, I recall thinking that if the nationality's were reversed it would have been front page. Media choosing whats important for us to know.

https://extra.ie/2019/06/21/news/irish-news/irishman-stabbed-in-spain-killed

Not sure of your point here


Point was that mainstream media steer us in a direction to suit a narrative as much as social media and its very easy to trust mainstream sources
I'm still not sure of your point above

An Irishman was stabbed to death in Spain

This was covered by the Irish media

I don't know whether any news outlet in Britain covered it in any significant way but I would presume not, which is hardly surprising

That isn't a conspiracy, it's the nature of news reporting generally covering stories that are relevant to the area that the outlet in question is based in, ie. an Irishman being stabbed to death in Spain is not hugely newsworthy for a UK national newspaper

Of course traditional media has editorial biases as regards framing and story selection - every outlet does - it's literally impossible not to have 

But editorial bias which attempts to create a particular view of the world is particular problem on the right - one only has to look at the British tabloids and Tory media

The Times refusing to mention the verdict of the Hillsborough inquest on its front page in 2016 was a particularly horrible example, and that decision was clearly driven by embarrassment that a fellow Murdoch paper had done so much to spread the persistent lies that so unfairly tarnished the victims and survivors and created hell for the families of the victims  - so they swept the news of the verdict, which was utterly damning for Murdoch media, under the carpet

The whole Brexit thing could not have happened without years, decades of lies by the Tory media

Trump could not have happened without the US right-wing media creating a pretty much fictional view of the world

Your example above is a very poor one however


Edited by sid waddell - 14 Sep 2020 at 12:49pm
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Liam Brady
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Points: 1433 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Huggybeer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2020 at 12:26pm
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Huggybeer Huggybeer wrote:

Need to be careful, with all media not just social, when the story of John Pender being stabbed in spain broke, i checked most English newspapers and none carried the story, I recall thinking that if the nationality's were reversed it would have been front page. Media choosing whats important for us to know.

https://extra.ie/2019/06/21/news/irish-news/irishman-stabbed-in-spain-killed

Not sure of your point here


Point was that mainstream media steer us in a direction to suit a narrative as much as social media and its very easy to trust mainstream sources
Getting old and intolerant
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sid waddell View Drop Down
Roy Keane
Roy Keane

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Points: 12173 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2020 at 10:53am
Media framing like the following example is really annoying 

There's far too much deference to right-wing power, by refusing to call things as they are

https://twitter.com/OxfordDiplomat/status/1305430370385571845

Can the media and its commentators stop calling Boris Johnson’s Internal Market Bill “controversial”. Call it what it is: illegal The Bill is illegal MP’s are divided between those who respect and uphold the rule of law versus those who do not.
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Points: 18995 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nvidic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2020 at 10:45am
Originally posted by Huggybeer Huggybeer wrote:

Need to be careful, with all media not just social, when the story of John Pender being stabbed in spain broke, i checked most English newspapers and none carried the story, I recall thinking that if the nationality's were reversed it would have been front page. Media choosing whats important for us to know.

https://extra.ie/2019/06/21/news/irish-news/irishman-stabbed-in-spain-killed

Why would the English papers carry that? Of no relevance to them, might get a small paragraph here if it was the other way around but no more. 
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sid waddell View Drop Down
Roy Keane
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Points: 12173 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2020 at 10:43am
Originally posted by Huggybeer Huggybeer wrote:

Need to be careful, with all media not just social, when the story of John Pender being stabbed in spain broke, i checked most English newspapers and none carried the story, I recall thinking that if the nationality's were reversed it would have been front page. Media choosing whats important for us to know.

https://extra.ie/2019/06/21/news/irish-news/irishman-stabbed-in-spain-killed
Not sure of your point here
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Liam Brady
Liam Brady


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Points: 1433 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Huggybeer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Sep 2020 at 10:36am
Need to be careful, with all media not just social, when the story of John Pender being stabbed in spain broke, i checked most English newspapers and none carried the story, I recall thinking that if the nationality's were reversed it would have been front page. Media choosing whats important for us to know.

https://extra.ie/2019/06/21/news/irish-news/irishman-stabbed-in-spain-killed
Getting old and intolerant
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sid waddell View Drop Down
Roy Keane
Roy Keane

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Points: 12173 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 11:23pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

telling it like it is Sid.  Is that not a line that someone like Peter Casey often use and other shock jocks.  
Can’t believe you have used the language of the right. Telling it like it is.  
That's the point, duh, I actually tell it like is whereas them claiming to is obvious gaslighting

Which you're doing here, without a point
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Points: 32782 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 11:20pm
telling it like it is Sid.  Is that not a line that someone like Peter Casey often use and other shock jocks.  
Can’t believe you have used the language of the right. Telling it like it is.  
AKA pedantic kunt
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Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton


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 https://mobile.twitter.com/vmax_14/status/1304797601003266048
El Puto Amo
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sid waddell View Drop Down
Roy Keane
Roy Keane

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Points: 12173 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

I think a good trick is to always question with more vigour stuff that you are more likely to agree with.  So for many people who are not of this mindset many saw this as a rubbish link. Whereas others who were only too open to believe it took it hook line and sinker.  That applies for all stories whether they be liberal far right or whatever.  
Thoroughly false equivalence

People who are media literate tend not to have far right views because they generally form opinions based on real stories and real things

Which is also why they don't become frothing at the mouth bigots

People who have far right views actively seek to create propaganda or actively seek it out to justify their own bigotry

They often get suckered into these views because they are not media literate, and get suckered by frauds peddling a simplistic, fraudulent worldview

It should have been obvious at the time that this fake "story" was likely planted propaganda designed to incite racist hatred



You are never going to win a debate with someone by saying to them I am more media literate than you.  It will turn them off and they may cosy up to the side that says you have done nothing wrong it’s the other than are the problem. 

More and more what would have been considered decent hard working folk are falling for this. Talking down to them won’t work.  The right is horrible and they use horrible tactics and they do not tend to talk down and many people esp in working class areas are sick of people talking down to them and as a result are walking away from centrist policies as they believe correctly it has failed them.  I would disagree with the solutions some are opting for such as the far right which is disgusting in all its forms. 
I am not a "persuader"

I am a somebody who tells it as it is

If people fall for far right narratives because they think somebody is arguing too forcefully, they aren't interested in reality and were always fodder for the far right anyway


Edited by sid waddell - 13 Sep 2020 at 1:43pm
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Jack Charlton
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I wastched a 4 part mini-series on the Murdochs recently. This isn't something that's new to Internet-news, biased news with an agenda has been around long before Facebook
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Roy Keane
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Points: 12173 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 1:30pm
"It's all your imagination, Sid", plus performative smiley

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/hitler-youths-using-instagram-to-recruit-children-xfgnglklv?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1599991174

‘Hitler youths’ using Instagram to recruit children

Fascist groups led by teenagers are targeting those as young as 12

Teenage members of a neo-Nazi group that has threatened to carry out an atrocity in the UK to eclipse the Christchurch mosque shootings have been using Instagram to recruit and to spread propaganda.

The leader of the group, the British Hand, who is believed to be 15, says he is planning an attack on Muslims and refugees arriving at Dover after crossing the Channel. Other members have pledged to infiltrate the army and get weapons training.

The group’s activities across social media are laid bare in a new report by anti-fascism campaigners Hope Not Hate. Entitled Hitler Youths: The Rise of Teenage Far-Right Terrorists, the report reveals that children as young as 12 are being groomed online for the white supremacist cause.
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Robbie Keane
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Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

I think a good trick is to always question with more vigour stuff that you are more likely to agree with.  So for many people who are not of this mindset many saw this as a rubbish link. Whereas others who were only too open to believe it took it hook line and sinker.  That applies for all stories whether they be liberal far right or whatever.  
Thoroughly false equivalence

People who are media literate tend not to have far right views because they generally form opinions based on real stories and real things

Which is also why they don't become frothing at the mouth bigots

People who have far right views actively seek to create propaganda or actively seek it out to justify their own bigotry

They often get suckered into these views because they are not media literate, and get suckered by frauds peddling a simplistic, fraudulent worldview

It should have been obvious at the time that this fake "story" was likely planted propaganda designed to incite racist hatred



You are never going to win a debate with someone by saying to them I am more media literate than you.  It will turn them off and they may cosy up to the side that says you have done nothing wrong it’s the other than are the problem. 

More and more what would have been considered decent hard working folk are falling for this. Talking down to them won’t work.  The right is horrible and they use horrible tactics and they do not tend to talk down and many people esp in working class areas are sick of people talking down to them and as a result are walking away from centrist policies as they believe correctly it has failed them.  I would disagree with the solutions some are opting for such as the far right which is disgusting in all its forms. 


Edited by Baldrick - 13 Sep 2020 at 1:31pm
AKA pedantic kunt
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Roy Keane
Roy Keane

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Points: 12173 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 1:10pm
Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

But in fairness, as loud as these utter ****s are in Ireland, I don't think there is any real prospect of genuine political breakthrough. 
It's about moving the Overton window so a more presentable self styled "moderate" version of this ideology gains traction

The presentable version will be even more dangerous because it will have the same ideology as Craig Fitzsimons but won't present itself like Craig Fitzsimons

Craig Fitzsimons is the guy who keeps shouting "paedo scum" in this video:


Renua have already tried a version if this and failed miserably because they came out of Fine Gael

Aontu are trying as well and are failing

The real danger will be when a gifted demagogue who presents themselves as moderate but is a genuine extremist comes along

They will portray themselves as being "for the people" and will target the working class specifically

In Britain that demagogue was Nigel Farridge

In Ireland we currently have a few of these potentials but they currently focus on being local career politicians, like the Healy Raes, Mattie McGrath and Verona Murphy

We haven't yet had a demagogue who tries to target and split the urban working class 

There's a guy called John McGuirk who I would keep a serious eye on, he's very dangerous

Paddy Cosgrave is another potential demagogue 

Once that demagogue comes along, the whole thing spirals out of control




Edited by sid waddell - 13 Sep 2020 at 1:10pm
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Robbie Keane
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Points: 37951 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Denis Irwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 11:07am
Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Important article in the journal this morning, on how the far right used an electrical fire in Balbriggan to stoke racial tensions. I bought it myself ag the time I have to say.

How an electrical fire in Balbriggan became a weapon used by the far-right to ignite racial tensions in the town https://jrnl.ie/5180007


I'd bet that's why The Journal was specifically targeted by the Anti Mask freaks yesterday
Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".

Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn
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Roy Keane
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Points: 12173 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 10:34am
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

I think a good trick is to always question with more vigour stuff that you are more likely to agree with.  So for many people who are not of this mindset many saw this as a rubbish link. Whereas others who were only too open to believe it took it hook line and sinker.  That applies for all stories whether they be liberal far right or whatever.  
Thoroughly false equivalence

People who are media literate tend not to have far right views because they generally form opinions based on real stories and real things

Which is also why they don't become frothing at the mouth bigots

People who have far right views actively seek to create propaganda or actively seek it out to justify their own bigotry

They often get suckered into these views because they are not media literate, and get suckered by frauds peddling a simplistic, fraudulent worldview

It should have been obvious at the time that this fake "story" was likely planted propaganda designed to incite racist hatred
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Ray Houghton
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Points: 4667 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote theheff1989 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Sep 2020 at 10:33am
Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

The social dilemma is a very interesting documentary on Netflix.

Briefly touches on how Google, twitter, YouTube, Facebook etc intentionally creates rabbit holes for these people, creating echo Chambers. 

They are dangerous, dangerous people 

Gave it a watch the other day. Horrible folk. But yet people don’t seem to mind and will continue to use their platforms. 

While I use gmail as my email account Pinch


Edited by theheff1989 - 13 Sep 2020 at 10:34am
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