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Newryrep 
Paul McGrath
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 Posted: 27 May 2020 at 12:19pm |
 Drumcondra 69er wrote:
Devrozex wrote:
JohnSwift wrote:
In some respects, it might have been a blessing in disguise that Keane combusted in Saipan, rather than him throwing a tantrum in Japan and ruining the tournament. We'll never know how the squad might have fared with him in it, but it could be argued that his absence liberated the players at that tournament and that they were a happier squad as a result. |
True. Although it could also be argued that his presence, as our one true world class player at the time, could have propelled us to our best ever finish at what was in truth a pretty average world cup. That German team was gash and they managed to scrape all the way through to the final. As you say we'll never know. |
It's impossible to say and it could certainly have been argued alright. That said, we played far better without Keane against Germany and Spain in the tournament than with him against Holland in the Lansdowne game, for example.
Bit harsh calling that German team gash, there were a very good side with world class players the calibre of Khan, Ballack and Klose and plenty others just under that level. They put 8 past the Saudis and beat Cameroon 2-0 with only ten men after Ramelow was sent off early on. Did what they had to do in the knock outs. Always feel that Germany team is talked down over here as it suited the narrative to suggest we would have beaten them with RK in the team and played Paraguay in the last 16 rather than Spain on our way to the final. |
beaten 5-1 at home by Eriksonn's England in qualifying ( biggest selling English football cd AFAIK) - though would need to check the German line up
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Drumcondra 69er
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Posted: 27 May 2020 at 12:29pm |
Newryrep wrote:
Drumcondra 69er wrote:
Devrozex wrote:
JohnSwift wrote:
In some respects, it might have been a blessing in disguise that Keane combusted in Saipan, rather than him throwing a tantrum in Japan and ruining the tournament. We'll never know how the squad might have fared with him in it, but it could be argued that his absence liberated the players at that tournament and that they were a happier squad as a result. |
True. Although it could also be argued that his presence, as our one true world class player at the time, could have propelled us to our best ever finish at what was in truth a pretty average world cup. That German team was gash and they managed to scrape all the way through to the final. As you say we'll never know. |
It's impossible to say and it could certainly have been argued alright. That said, we played far better without Keane against Germany and Spain in the tournament than with him against Holland in the Lansdowne game, for example.
Bit harsh calling that German team gash, there were a very good side with world class players the calibre of Khan, Ballack and Klose and plenty others just under that level. They put 8 past the Saudis and beat Cameroon 2-0 with only ten men after Ramelow was sent off early on. Did what they had to do in the knock outs. Always feel that Germany team is talked down over here as it suited the narrative to suggest we would have beaten them with RK in the team and played Paraguay in the last 16 rather than Spain on our way to the final. |
beaten 5-1 at home by Eriksonn's England in qualifying ( biggest selling English football cd AFAIK) - though would need to check the German line up |
One of those games that night. Same day we beat Holland. Germany beat them at Wembley earlier in the group. It was a strange group for results, England wound to needing a 94th minute Beckham equaliser against Greece to top it in the final game. Had that not gone in or had Germany managed to beat Finland instead of a scoreless draw at the same time then England would have been in the play offs. Had it been a one nil victory for England instead of the 5-1 I think Germany would have finished ahead of them too.
Edited by Drumcondra 69er - 27 May 2020 at 12:30pm
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Newryrep
Paul McGrath
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Posted: 27 May 2020 at 1:04pm |
Drumcondra 69er wrote:
One of those games that night. Same day we beat Holland. Germany beat them at Wembley earlier in the group. It was a strange group for results, England wound to needing a 94th minute Beckham equaliser against Greece to top it in the final game. Had that not gone in or had Germany managed to beat Finland instead of a scoreless draw at the same time then England would have been in the play offs. Had it been a one nil victory for England instead of the 5-1 I think Germany would have finished ahead of them too.
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was curious, 4 started the final 5 if you include Klose who was a sub in the 1-5 , Asamoah playing sub in both games
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'Irish' Songs for an Irish team - no SPL EPL generic sh*te
Richard Dunne - 6th Sept 11 - best marshalling of a defence in Moscow since General Zukov Russia V Germany 1941
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Posted: 27 May 2020 at 1:20pm |
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One thing that I always find amusing is how people say if Keane was there we would have beaten Spain, and then act like beating South Korea in the quarters was a foregone conclusion. Why would we have been immune to the corrupt refereeing and blatant cheating which helped South Korea beat first Italy then Spain? Do people think that the refs would have played the game out fairly because we weren't as accomplished a team as Italy or Spain? It's ridiculous.
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Zinedine Kilbane 110
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 27 May 2020 at 1:23pm |
Newryrep wrote:
Drumcondra 69er wrote:
Devrozex wrote:
JohnSwift wrote:
In some respects, it might have been a blessing in disguise that Keane combusted in Saipan, rather than him throwing a tantrum in Japan and ruining the tournament. We'll never know how the squad might have fared with him in it, but it could be argued that his absence liberated the players at that tournament and that they were a happier squad as a result. |
True. Although it could also be argued that his presence, as our one true world class player at the time, could have propelled us to our best ever finish at what was in truth a pretty average world cup. That German team was gash and they managed to scrape all the way through to the final. As you say we'll never know. |
It's impossible to say and it could certainly have been argued alright. That said, we played far better without Keane against Germany and Spain in the tournament than with him against Holland in the Lansdowne game, for example.
Bit harsh calling that German team gash, there were a very good side with world class players the calibre of Khan, Ballack and Klose and plenty others just under that level. They put 8 past the Saudis and beat Cameroon 2-0 with only ten men after Ramelow was sent off early on. Did what they had to do in the knock outs. Always feel that Germany team is talked down over here as it suited the narrative to suggest we would have beaten them with RK in the team and played Paraguay in the last 16 rather than Spain on our way to the final. |
beaten 5-1 at home by Eriksonn's England in qualifying ( biggest selling English football cd AFAIK) - though would need to check the German line up |
It wasnt a great German team and expectation were low for them going into the tournament. I think the odds on us topping the group was very close to Germany.
In Euro 2000 they went out in the group only picking up one point. Portugal beat them 3-0 in that group.
In Euro 2004 they went out again in the group stages.
They had a favourable run to the final - Paraguay, USA and SKorea. Being Germans they made the most of it.
In the end Ronnie could of had a HT in the final.
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pre Madonna
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Posted: 27 May 2020 at 1:26pm |
Glad he didn't! 18-1 Brazil 2-0 and the main man to score first! 
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Devrozex
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Posted: 27 May 2020 at 1:42pm |
Drumcondra 69er wrote:
Devrozex wrote:
JohnSwift wrote:
In some respects, it might have been a blessing in disguise that Keane combusted in Saipan, rather than him throwing a tantrum in Japan and ruining the tournament. We'll never know how the squad might have fared with him in it, but it could be argued that his absence liberated the players at that tournament and that they were a happier squad as a result. |
True. Although it could also be argued that his presence, as our one true world class player at the time, could have propelled us to our best ever finish at what was in truth a pretty average world cup. That German team was gash and they managed to scrape all the way through to the final. As you say we'll never know. |
Bit harsh calling that German team gash, there were a very good side with world class players the calibre of Khan, Ballack and Klose and plenty others just under that level. They put 8 past the Saudis and beat Cameroon 2-0 with only ten men after Ramelow was sent off early on. Did what they had to do in the knock outs. Always feel that Germany team is talked down over here as it suited the narrative to suggest we would have beaten them with RK in the team and played Paraguay in the last 16 rather than Spain on our way to the final.
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There were gash by German standards. On paper one of their worst sides ever in fact. Ballack and Kahn were their two players of real star quality. Klose was a great goalscorer but not sure he was ever really world class as such. As pointed out already they got thrashed 5-1 at home by England in the qualifiers and were also possibly the worst side at Euro 2000. They did what they had to do in the knock-outs (which was win every game 1-0) because that's what German sides so often tend to do at World Cups. But let's not kid ourselves into thinking they were a great side because they really weren't.
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gufct
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Posted: 27 May 2020 at 2:07pm |
gspain wrote:
Yiksheemash wrote:
gufct wrote:
Keane was off the gargle and was having serious problems coming to terms with it and as Saipan was for rnr the players went on the lash.
The Training facilities in Saipan were fantastic got to go there a couple of times and one other thing that was brilliant there the late Noel O’Reilly was coaching Japanese young players on an adjoining pitch. Dunphy and jd’s role In the whole sh*tshow ruined any chance of getting it sorted. |
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I suspect gufct means the training camp used during the World Cup (in Chiba IIRC). I doubt if too many fans have ever been to Saipan. |
Thank you Gary it was Chiba I was talking about but Waterford’s greatest son just loves having a pop.
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Territorial
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Posted: 27 May 2020 at 3:47pm |
The O'Shea wrote:
You are absolutely delusional if you believe that. I know it might suit your general narrative to try and paint this as some sort of "stupid Paddy had unrealistic notions, and then didn't even have the gumption to follow through!" situation, but that simply is not based in any kind of reality. No one, and I literally mean no one, expected Roy Keane to drag Ireland to World Cup victory. Suggesting that Keane downed tools because it "suddenly dawned on him" that he could not fulfil this unrealistic goal (which absolutely no one expected of him in the first place) is nothing short of farcical. |
I'm not claiming that anyone else believed that ROI could win it etc.
But I do remember RK's whole spiel about "Not just going there to take part" or "a couple of weeks enjoying ourselves" at a Finals etc. Which tied in with his overall approach to playing, which was that willpower is the most important attribute a player can possess.
And although I can't find a specific reference, there is a curious entry which someone (not me!) has posted on the wiki page on Siapan: Keane, on the other hand, who is reputed to have told Alex Ferguson that he was going to the World Cup "to win it", viewed [the stopover in Saipan] as a period of preparation for the World Cup Finals.
[And yes, I know it's Wiki and there's no citation etc, but it's curious that someone should write that out of context.]
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Posted: 27 May 2020 at 4:14pm |
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Funny enough, I don’t think Keane was wide of the mark if he wanted to go to 2002 with a view to getting to the Semi Finals or the Final. We had been excellent for two years, and had a very tidy group of players. Also, a lot of major teams struggled to show up. If Keane felt that way, it was the right World Cup to be at.
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The O'Shea
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Posted: 27 May 2020 at 4:31pm |
Territorial wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
You are absolutely delusional if you believe that. I know it might suit your general narrative to try and paint this as some sort of "stupid Paddy had unrealistic notions, and then didn't even have the gumption to follow through!" situation, but that simply is not based in any kind of reality. No one, and I literally mean no one, expected Roy Keane to drag Ireland to World Cup victory. Suggesting that Keane downed tools because it "suddenly dawned on him" that he could not fulfil this unrealistic goal (which absolutely no one expected of him in the first place) is nothing short of farcical. |
I'm not claiming that anyone else believed that ROI could win it etc.
But I do remember RK's whole spiel about "Not just going there to take part" or "a couple of weeks enjoying ourselves" at a Finals etc. Which tied in with his overall approach to playing, which was that willpower is the most important attribute a player can possess.
And although I can't find a specific reference, there is a curious entry which someone (not me!) has posted on the wiki page on Siapan: Keane, on the other hand, who is reputed to have told Alex Ferguson that he was going to the World Cup "to win it", viewed [the stopover in Saipan] as a period of preparation for the World Cup Finals.
[And yes, I know it's Wiki and there's no citation etc, but it's curious that someone should write that out of context.]
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Every player going into every tournament says "we're here to win". To suggest the reason Keane left is because he had a breakdown realising he could never lead Ireland to literal World Cup Victory is la-la-land stuff 
The reason Keane blew up is glaringly obvious to anyone with the slightest bit of common sense; it was because he was forced to spend an extended amount of time in the presence of (and take direction from) a person who he absolutely despised... He viewed McCarthy not only a useless coach and player, but a useless person. His ego could not handle the fact that he was taking direction from a person who he viewed in such a loathsome manner. Rather than process these emotions in a normal manner, Roy Keane did what Roy Keane does, he seethed until such a point that his anger boiled over in explosive fashion. The rest is history, as they say.
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We're decent enough..
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Yiksheemash
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Posted: 28 May 2020 at 8:46am |
The O'Shea wrote:
Territorial wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
You are absolutely delusional if you believe that. I know it might suit your general narrative to try and paint this as some sort of "stupid Paddy had unrealistic notions, and then didn't even have the gumption to follow through!" situation, but that simply is not based in any kind of reality. No one, and I literally mean no one, expected Roy Keane to drag Ireland to World Cup victory. Suggesting that Keane downed tools because it "suddenly dawned on him" that he could not fulfil this unrealistic goal (which absolutely no one expected of him in the first place) is nothing short of farcical. |
I'm not claiming that anyone else believed that ROI could win it etc.
But I do remember RK's whole spiel about "Not just going there to take part" or "a couple of weeks enjoying ourselves" at a Finals etc. Which tied in with his overall approach to playing, which was that willpower is the most important attribute a player can possess.
And although I can't find a specific reference, there is a curious entry which someone (not me!) has posted on the wiki page on Siapan: Keane, on the other hand, who is reputed to have told Alex Ferguson that he was going to the World Cup "to win it", viewed [the stopover in Saipan] as a period of preparation for the World Cup Finals.
[And yes, I know it's Wiki and there's no citation etc, but it's curious that someone should write that out of context.]
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Every player going into every tournament says "we're here to win". To suggest the reason Keane left is because he had a breakdown realising he could never lead Ireland to literal World Cup Victory is la-la-land stuff
The reason Keane blew up is glaringly obvious to anyone with the slightest bit of common sense; it was because he was forced to spend an extended amount of time in the presence of (and take direction from) a person who he absolutely despised... He viewed McCarthy not only a useless coach and player, but a useless person. His ego could not handle the fact that he was taking direction from a person who he viewed in such a loathsome manner. Rather than process these emotions in a normal manner, Roy Keane did what Roy Keane does, he seethed until such a point that his anger boiled over in explosive fashion. The rest is history, as they say. |
Roy wasn't wrong there anyway. McCarthy proved that with the Clubs he went onto manage. absolute robbed a living from football management.
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Artie Ziff
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Posted: 28 May 2020 at 9:41am |
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I'd say you're the McCarthy of the construction world Yiks. King Tarmacadam
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It would damage this forums' reputation
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newrynyuk
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Posted: 28 May 2020 at 10:14pm |
Yiksheemash wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
Territorial wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
You are absolutely delusional if you believe that. I know it might suit your general narrative to try and paint this as some sort of "stupid Paddy had unrealistic notions, and then didn't even have the gumption to follow through!" situation, but that simply is not based in any kind of reality. No one, and I literally mean no one, expected Roy Keane to drag Ireland to World Cup victory. Suggesting that Keane downed tools because it "suddenly dawned on him" that he could not fulfil this unrealistic goal (which absolutely no one expected of him in the first place) is nothing short of farcical. |
I'm not claiming that anyone else believed that ROI could win it etc.
But I do remember RK's whole spiel about "Not just going there to take part" or "a couple of weeks enjoying ourselves" at a Finals etc. Which tied in with his overall approach to playing, which was that willpower is the most important attribute a player can possess.
And although I can't find a specific reference, there is a curious entry which someone (not me!) has posted on the wiki page on Siapan: Keane, on the other hand, who is reputed to have told Alex Ferguson that he was going to the World Cup "to win it", viewed [the stopover in Saipan] as a period of preparation for the World Cup Finals.
[And yes, I know it's Wiki and there's no citation etc, but it's curious that someone should write that out of context.]
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Every player going into every tournament says "we're here to win". To suggest the reason Keane left is because he had a breakdown realising he could never lead Ireland to literal World Cup Victory is la-la-land stuff
The reason Keane blew up is glaringly obvious to anyone with the slightest bit of common sense; it was because he was forced to spend an extended amount of time in the presence of (and take direction from) a person who he absolutely despised... He viewed McCarthy not only a useless coach and player, but a useless person. His ego could not handle the fact that he was taking direction from a person who he viewed in such a loathsome manner. Rather than process these emotions in a normal manner, Roy Keane did what Roy Keane does, he seethed until such a point that his anger boiled over in explosive fashion. The rest is history, as they say. |
Roy wasn't wrong there anyway. McCarthy proved that with the Clubs he went onto manage. absolute robbed a living from football management. |
This is in contrast to Keane's stellar management career of course
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Yiksheemash
500 Club la la la
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Posted: 29 May 2020 at 8:24am |
newrynyuk wrote:
Yiksheemash wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
Territorial wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
You are absolutely delusional if you believe that. I know it might suit your general narrative to try and paint this as some sort of "stupid Paddy had unrealistic notions, and then didn't even have the gumption to follow through!" situation, but that simply is not based in any kind of reality. No one, and I literally mean no one, expected Roy Keane to drag Ireland to World Cup victory. Suggesting that Keane downed tools because it "suddenly dawned on him" that he could not fulfil this unrealistic goal (which absolutely no one expected of him in the first place) is nothing short of farcical. |
I'm not claiming that anyone else believed that ROI could win it etc.
But I do remember RK's whole spiel about "Not just going there to take part" or "a couple of weeks enjoying ourselves" at a Finals etc. Which tied in with his overall approach to playing, which was that willpower is the most important attribute a player can possess.
And although I can't find a specific reference, there is a curious entry which someone (not me!) has posted on the wiki page on Siapan: Keane, on the other hand, who is reputed to have told Alex Ferguson that he was going to the World Cup "to win it", viewed [the stopover in Saipan] as a period of preparation for the World Cup Finals.
[And yes, I know it's Wiki and there's no citation etc, but it's curious that someone should write that out of context.]
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Every player going into every tournament says "we're here to win". To suggest the reason Keane left is because he had a breakdown realising he could never lead Ireland to literal World Cup Victory is la-la-land stuff
The reason Keane blew up is glaringly obvious to anyone with the slightest bit of common sense; it was because he was forced to spend an extended amount of time in the presence of (and take direction from) a person who he absolutely despised... He viewed McCarthy not only a useless coach and player, but a useless person. His ego could not handle the fact that he was taking direction from a person who he viewed in such a loathsome manner. Rather than process these emotions in a normal manner, Roy Keane did what Roy Keane does, he seethed until such a point that his anger boiled over in explosive fashion. The rest is history, as they say. |
Roy wasn't wrong there anyway. McCarthy proved that with the Clubs he went onto manage. absolute robbed a living from football management. |
This is in contrast to Keane's stellar management career of course
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you can compare him to Keane all you like in terms of management but it still doesn't take away from the fact he was an absolute dinosaur and robbed a living from football management
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Posted: 29 May 2020 at 10:27am |
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You can accuse him of many things but one thing he can manage is a good sh*te, esp if a microwave is nearby.
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AKA pedantic kunt
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Claret Murph
Paul McGrath
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Posted: 29 May 2020 at 11:58am |
Baldrick wrote:
You can accuse him of many things but one thing he can manage is a good sh*te, esp if a microwave is nearby.
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Sci is some man for sure .
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Lansdowne Road debut aged 52 and 201 days .
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gufct
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 29 May 2020 at 6:13pm |
Yiksheemash wrote:
newrynyuk wrote:
Yiksheemash wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
Territorial wrote:
The O'Shea wrote:
You are absolutely delusional if you believe that. I know it might suit your general narrative to try and paint this as some sort of "stupid Paddy had unrealistic notions, and then didn't even have the gumption to follow through!" situation, but that simply is not based in any kind of reality. No one, and I literally mean no one, expected Roy Keane to drag Ireland to World Cup victory. Suggesting that Keane downed tools because it "suddenly dawned on him" that he could not fulfil this unrealistic goal (which absolutely no one expected of him in the first place) is nothing short of farcical. |
I'm not claiming that anyone else believed that ROI could win it etc.
But I do remember RK's whole spiel about "Not just going there to take part" or "a couple of weeks enjoying ourselves" at a Finals etc. Which tied in with his overall approach to playing, which was that willpower is the most important attribute a player can possess.
And although I can't find a specific reference, there is a curious entry which someone (not me!) has posted on the wiki page on Siapan: Keane, on the other hand, who is reputed to have told Alex Ferguson that he was going to the World Cup "to win it", viewed [the stopover in Saipan] as a period of preparation for the World Cup Finals.
[And yes, I know it's Wiki and there's no citation etc, but it's curious that someone should write that out of context.]
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Every player going into every tournament says "we're here to win". To suggest the reason Keane left is because he had a breakdown realising he could never lead Ireland to literal World Cup Victory is la-la-land stuff
The reason Keane blew up is glaringly obvious to anyone with the slightest bit of common sense; it was because he was forced to spend an extended amount of time in the presence of (and take direction from) a person who he absolutely despised... He viewed McCarthy not only a useless coach and player, but a useless person. His ego could not handle the fact that he was taking direction from a person who he viewed in such a loathsome manner. Rather than process these emotions in a normal manner, Roy Keane did what Roy Keane does, he seethed until such a point that his anger boiled over in explosive fashion. The rest is history, as they say. |
Roy wasn't wrong there anyway. McCarthy proved that with the Clubs he went onto manage. absolute robbed a living from football management. |
This is in contrast to Keane's stellar management career of course
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you can compare him to Keane all you like in terms of management but it still doesn't take away from the fact he was an absolute dinosaur and robbed a living from football management |
Your totally deluded
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