I actually saw a documentary about it on one of those cable channels the other day.

It was truly horrible, with blood and guts and casualties everywhere. Lots of people were left traumatised, and suffer to this this very day.

It should never be forgotten.

Think the plan was hatched there when Roy wasn’t about!

I know. injured. 

Edit: Had completely forgotten about him!

Completing 90 minutes for United against Leicester 48 hours after the Iran game, and completing 90 minutes against Bayern Munich on the following Tuesday, followed by another 90 minutes vs Arsenal on the Sunday.

Some turnaround from not being able to play one game! Within 2 days it was healed enough to play 90 minutes and it healed so much that he was able to play 3 games in 8 days!

Must have been on the magic beans or had a visit from the pope.

As if Keane was the only player to do that🤔

He was the only player to do that (complete lack of professionalism) and then decide that he was too professional to be dealing with bad facilities for a few days. 

i think you have just contradicted yourself there 

.

John Paul II had a soft spot for us and a hard spot for Mick Byrne

Aye there’s big love on here for the boys that turn up all the time but do nothing on the Pitch!

Aye, he contracted "Ryan Giggs Hamstring" at Man U the previous week: highly contagious, the OT dressing room was riddled with it back then.

But Roy being the hard man he was, managed to shake it off in a couple of days, when others would have needed to be rushed to hospital.

Legend.

It was actually a case of fûck Roy Keane. He bailed and left himself down. We wouldn’t have got out of the group In Japan if that headbanger had decided to stay on. According to the books/podcasts about him at that time, he was going to explode at some stage and I’m glad he fûcked himself over and didn’t ruin it for the lads who deserved to be there. The squad despised him and getting rid of him galvanised them as a group.

Like Keane in 2016 then?

Funny how he didnt have a bad word to say about the FAI when they were lining his pockets, or after when the true extent of the behind the scenes damage was revealed. He clearly doesn't give two sh*ts about anything behind the scenes at the FAI so dont delude yourself into thinking that he took some great stand against the FAI.

The setup was a joke but his carry on, from the Iran game which he clearly wasn't injured for, to the threats to leave because of the setup, to giving an interview to Paul Kimmage and Tom Humphries listing his complaints after being told not to, to his reaction to being challenged about that interview- He did everything in his power to leave that World Cup and if it wasn't the facilities that got him into a bad mood to get the ball rolling, it would have been something else.

Fully agree with this. 18 years on, most people with an ounce of intelligence have learned about what a hypocrite Keane is. It’s always somebody else’s fault. Even the greatest manager in the history of English football had to tell him to pack his bags.

Roy Keane as assistant to O'Neill answered that bit

Yep - applies to a lot of his career, whether playing or managing.

And even in the TV studio - remember, he never had any time for pundits when he was playing, but after he retired he was happy to take the broadcasters' money and give them what they wanted.

As for Saipan, I still believe that it was moral cowardice was behind it. That is, his whole spiel had always been that if you want something badly enough, sheer willpower will carry you through (willpower of the Roy Keane variety, that is). Wasn't he even talking about winning the World Cup at one stage?

Yet when he got out there, it dawned on him that it wasn't going to happen, he looked for an excuse to escape the blame, and a crappy training ground and some missing footballs was good enough for him.

Apparently Spartan mothers used to tell their sons when they went off to battle:

Keane's version was: "How am I supposed to fight with a shield like that? Shove it up your f**kin bollox ye **** ye - I'm off!"

Are you seriously implying that anyone would have "blamed" Roy Keane for the momentous failure of being unable to lead Ireland to World Cup victory?  Keane left because he blew a gasket, and due to the significant handicap of being a massive gobsh*te he was unable to swallow his pride and apologise for it. I've never understood the attempt to try and imagine up a deeper explanation to the episode than that, it really was that simple.

Sure post it up there what the truth is

Send a pm so. 

No.

What I'm saying is that after his spiel of "Why can't we win it?" or "Why else would you go if you weren't looking to win it" etc, it dawned on him that they had no chance.

So he was looking for a way out, and Saipan provided it.

The O'Shea wrote: Keane left because he blew a gasket, and due to the significant handicap of being a massive gobsh*te he was unable to swallow his pride and apologise for it. I've never understood the attempt to try and imagine up a deeper explanation to the episode than that, it really was that simple.

Yeah, but why did he blow a gasket? What was it that drove him to the point of no return?

Remember, as a massive gobsh*te, Keane spent his whole career losing it. A (temporary) lack of traiining equipment was just another of Keane's Five-A-Day reasons for losing it.

Whatever else, he's not stupid and he will have known that this episode would be career-defining. I'm sure he could have found a way of defusing it had he wanted.

But he didn't.

All of this crap we’ve been told about him being the ultimate captain and a great leader. It’s all bollocks. He threw his toys out of the pram and when McCarthy didn’t suck him off or massage his ego Keane couldn’t take it. It says an awful lot about him that when he left the room after the outburst, the whole squad turned immediately to McCarthy and said they were in full support of him. The whole squad were probably tired of his carry on anyway. From not turning up to friendlies for years to faking an injury in a World Cup playoff game, they all saw through him - some captain and a real model professional he was . If Keane had such a problem with the FAI then the professional thing to do would have been to suck it up, prepare for the World Cup then when it was all over voice his disgust at the FAI. 

The whole episode was never anything to do with the facilities or the lack of gear or even McCarthy. Yes they were factors in it but the bottom line was Keane was on the verge of a breakdown for a while if the stories are to be believed. How many of the squad said that Keane turned up at the airport in Dublin in bad form and looked like a fella on edge? If the meltdown didn’t happen in Saipan then it would have happened when they got to Japan and it would have derailed the whole thing. 

 

It was all over a Tayto-King debate, wasn't it?

Beans on the breakfast. Roy was incandescent when the breakfast turned up and there was nothing between the beans and the sausages. When he saw there was no white pudding he was never coming back. 

Then they come in for tea and there was only Chef Brown Sauce or YR, which he told McCarthy to stick up his bollix. Can't blame him.

Anyone that has been in a dressing room of any kind (not sure about millennial's!!) will have seen managers and players go head to head, abuse each other etc and then work it out afterwards. 

I think because Keane was a superstar Mick went too far trying to prove he wasn't going to be treated differently and actually treated him differently in doing so. If Mcateer or any of the others did that article i would guess he would have gone to their room and f'ed them out of it and moved on.

Anyway in short they were all wrong and anyone that thinks otherwise is blinded by club loyalty.

Or doesn't have any further information

 

Ohhhh no he wasnt " playing with Tiggs " the dog was he

But you didn't! Leaving sleeping dogs like would have been not saying anything at all. This is the very opposite of letting sleeping dogs like! This is waking them up and throwing them a stick, and the f**kers ran for it too.

Neither may have been "right", but Keane was definitely more wrong. He's the one that exploded and then refused to back down regarding his unacceptable behaviour. He must shoulder the vast majority of the blame for what happened, and I don't think there's any reasonable way to read the situation other than that.

That seems about right to me.

But if he was just a "bomb waiting to explode" even from before they left the airport, who or what was it which loaded the Semtex onto him in the first place?

Perhaps there might have been some personal reason which was winding him up.

But unless/until we're told what it was, then my guess is that as he came to realise he was putting intolerable demands on  himself (i.e. implying he could lead the team to win it), the pressure just built and built, so that Saipan was just the spark which finally detonated him.

A bit like Roberto Duran's "No Mas" moment i.e. f**king off completely when he realised he couldn't beat Leonard.

Call all that bullsh*t if you like, I believe what I was told by a respected individual who could hardly have been placed better at the time.

EDIT: Hadn't read the thread. Bundy pretty much spot on with what he's saying. The few pints for the rest of the lads was the spark to the petrol.

Can't find it anywhere on youtube but I do remember Steve Staunton's take on it in the press conference and how he never seen anyone speak to a manager like that which gives you a sense of who was clearly in the wrong. 

Any legitimate criticisms Keane had of the FAI and the preparations are nothing more than a smokescreen imo as he never respected McCarthy from day 1. He was waiting to explode and deserves most of the blame as to why he didn't play for his country at that world cup. 

Regardless of keanes mood, the logistics were a shambles. Does that keane the excuse to undermine the manager in public,no it doesnt.  But the fai trying to deflect blame on to keane giving up the booze to cover for their amateur preparations is disgraceful.

Are we moving into the erotic now..

Damn predictive text, cant believe it found it considering I have never seen one. 

One of the issues he brought with him to Saipan was the situation around Niall Quinns testimonial, where the proceeds were to go toward Our Lady's childrens hospital in Crumlin.

He pulled out of it with injury, despite not being injured in Uniteds last match, and despite being fit enough to play against Nigeria 2 days later.

He also refused to write a note in the programme because he didn't like the journalist who was writing the programme.

The media suggested that Roy had snubbed sick children and he definitely had that on his mind, especially considering he spoke about it to Tom Humphries, specifically how unhappy he was with the FAI's handling of the situation.

You are absolutely delusional if you believe that. I know it might suit your general narrative to try and paint this as some sort of "stupid Paddy had unrealistic notions, and then didn't even have the gumption to follow through!" situation, but that simply is not based in any kind of reality. No one, and I literally mean no one, expected Roy Keane to drag Ireland to World Cup victory. Suggesting that Keane downed tools because it "suddenly dawned on him" that he could not fulfil this unrealistic goal (which absolutely no one expected of him in the first place) is nothing short of farcical.

Keane is your typical sociopath & when I was bored in work earlier today I looked through photos of the squad in the airport heading for Saipan and he looked ready to fight someone in Terminal 2. Whatever happened in the few days leading up to the infamous blow out, he just snapped. If the squad was together for a month and he lost the head then I’d say something but they were only together a few days. At the Euros in 2012, the squad were all pissed off and hated the sight of each other by the time the tournament even kicked off. They had been together 3 weeks by the time they played Croatia. We had a few pints with one of the lads from the 2012 squad one night in Dublin and he said by the time they got to Poland they were wrecked. They had been training in Dublin, then went to Italy, then played Hungary then had a week in Poland. If this had of been the case in 2002 I could justify a meltdown but not after 2/3 days of light training like they had in Saipan.

The Training facilities in Saipan were fantastic got to go there a couple of times and one other thing that was brilliant there the late Noel O’Reilly was coaching Japanese young players on an adjoining pitch. Dunphy and jd’s role In the whole sh*tshow ruined any chance of getting it sorted.

That mention of T2 at Dublin Airport in the early 00's certainly had me raising an eyebrow seeing as I used DUB to go on a few holidays that year and there was certainly no fancy spage-age terminal at that time. 

Ladies and gentlemen i present to you the first man in the history of the Irish state and the inhabitants of the island of Saipan to call the said facilities "fantastic"  

I suspect gufct means the training camp used during the World Cup (in Chiba IIRC).  I doubt if too many fans have ever been to Saipan.  

Was just about to type that. Chiba was fantastic but the way it was spun by Kennedy and RK incorporated was that Saipan was the training camp rather than a short r&r stopover. All the talk of no balls  and training gear etc was bullsh*t. One skip load  of shew stuff was delayed for a day due to a problem at DHL's end but everyone had gear to wear and balls to train with.

Did the guts of a month in Japan and Korea for 2002. Incredible trip. Ended up out with the team trying to get over the disappointment of the Spain defeat. General opinion was that Roy didn't want to be there and it was a more effective camp without him. 

Have always believed that had Man U won a trophy that season Roy would have been more content but seeing Arsenal win the double and losing to Leverkussen in the Champions League semi final was eating him up. He should have skipped Saipan and gone straight but there's no guarantee he wouldn't have kicked off in Japan. Have to laugh at some of the comments saying McCarthy should have been treating Roy differently to the rest when he'd been doing exactly that for years. 

I think Roy Keane and Mick McCarthy went there way back. 😉 

I presume the people that live there have been? Surprised you haven't Murph!

I think the Northern Mariana Islands are half way between Japan and Papua New Guinea, very roughly 

One argument I heard put forward by Keane supporters during the tournament was that the FAI should have flown Denis Irwin to the tournament, so that Roy would have a room-mate and someone to keep him company.

Keane's relationship with Irish football was very much on his own terms. In the calendar years of 1995 and 1996, he won a total of 4 caps at a time when he was almost ever-present for United. As already referred to on this thread, he missed the second leg in Iran on a Thursday evening, yet was fit to play 90 minutes for United less than 48 hours later. He then played a mid-week match in Europe and a subsequent match against Arsenal. Three 90-minute appearances in the 9 days that followed the Iran play-off. By comparison, Niall Quinn was carrying an injury and made the trip to Tehran to ensure that he was giving his backing to the squad.

In some respects, it might have been a blessing in disguise that Keane combusted in Saipan, rather than him throwing a tantrum in Japan and ruining the tournament. We'll never know how the squad might have fared with him in it, but it could be argued that his absence liberated the players at that tournament and that they were a happier squad as a result.

 

True. Although it could also be argued that his presence, as our one true world class player at the time, could have propelled us to our best ever finish at what was in truth a pretty average world cup. That German team was gash and they managed to scrape all the way through to the final. As you say we'll never know.

It's impossible to say and it could certainly have been argued alright. That said, we played far better without Keane against Germany and Spain in the tournament than with him against Holland in the Lansdowne game, for example.

Bit harsh calling that German team gash, there were a very good side with world class players the calibre of Khan, Ballack and Klose and plenty others just under that level. They put 8 past the Saudis and beat Cameroon 2-0 with only ten men after Ramelow was sent off early on. Did what they had to do in the knock outs. Always feel that Germany team is talked down over here as it suited the narrative to suggest we would have beaten them with RK in the team and played Paraguay in the last 16 rather than Spain on our way to the final. 

 

beaten 5-1 at home by Eriksonn's England in qualifying ( biggest selling English football cd AFAIK) - though would need to check the German line up

One of those games that night. Same day we beat Holland. Germany beat them at Wembley earlier in the group. It was a strange group for results, England wound to needing a 94th minute Beckham equaliser against Greece to top it in the final game. Had that not gone in or had Germany managed to beat Finland instead of a scoreless draw at the same time then England would have been in the play offs. Had it been a one nil victory for England instead of the 5-1 I think Germany would have finished ahead of them too. 

 

was curious, 4 started the final 5 if you include Klose who was a sub in the 1-5 , Asamoah playing sub in both games

It wasnt a great German team and expectation were low for them going into the tournament.

I think the odds on us topping the group was very close to Germany.

In Euro 2000 they went out in the group only picking up one point.

Portugal beat them 3-0 in that group.

In Euro 2004 they went out again in the group stages.

They had a favourable run to the final - Paraguay, USA and SKorea.

Being Germans they made the most of it.

In the end Ronnie could of had a HT in the final.

 

There were gash by German standards. On paper one of their worst sides ever in fact. Ballack and Kahn were their two players of real star quality. Klose was a great goalscorer but not sure he was ever really world class as such. As pointed out already they got thrashed 5-1 at home by England in the qualifiers and were also possibly the worst side at Euro 2000. They did what they had to do in the knock-outs (which was win every game 1-0) because that's what German sides so often tend to do at World Cups. But let's not kid ourselves into thinking they were a great side because they really weren't.

Thank you Gary it was Chiba I was talking about but Waterford’s greatest son just loves having a pop.

I'm not claiming that anyone else believed that ROI could win it etc.

But I do remember RK's whole spiel about "Not just going there to take part" or "a couple of weeks enjoying ourselves" at a Finals etc. Which tied in with his overall approach to playing, which was that willpower is the most important attribute a player can possess.

And although I can't find a specific reference, there is a curious entry which someone (not me!) has posted on the wiki page on Siapan:

Keane, on the other hand, who is reputed to have told https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Ferguson" rel="nofollow - Alex Ferguson that he was going to the World Cup "to win it", viewed [the stopover in Saipan] as a period of preparation for the World Cup Finals.

https:////en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saipan_incident" rel="nofollow - https:////en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saipan_incident

[And yes, I know it's Wiki and there's no citation etc, but it's curious that someone should write that out of context.]

Every player going into every tournament says "we're here to win". To suggest the reason Keane left is because he had a breakdown realising he could never lead Ireland to literal World Cup Victory is la-la-land stuff 

The reason Keane blew up is glaringly obvious to anyone with the slightest bit of common sense; it was because he was forced to spend an extended amount of time in the presence of (and take direction from) a person who he absolutely despised... He viewed McCarthy not only a useless coach and player, but a useless person. His ego could not handle the fact that he was taking direction from a person who he viewed in such a loathsome manner. Rather than process these emotions in a normal manner, Roy Keane did what Roy Keane does, he seethed until such a point that his anger boiled over in explosive fashion. The rest is history, as they say.

Roy wasn't wrong there anyway. McCarthy proved that with the Clubs he went onto manage. absolute robbed a living from football management. 

This is in contrast to Keane's stellar management career of course

you can compare him to Keane all you like in terms of management but it still doesn't take away from the fact he was an absolute dinosaur and robbed a living from football management

 

Sci is some man for sure .

Your totally deluded 

Have they nothing else to talk about ffs? 🙄

Amazingly it was discussed on four different newstalk shows today. 

Why is that **** talking to the other **** on a subject neither of the ****s have any knowledge about? How can you have a **** who can't speak on the radio? And Bertie is nearly as bad!

and unfortunately, he contributes in Finding Jack Charlton.

the man is a schnake. 

Quimby or Partridge?

Quimby

Why did they go there? (I know obviously for a training camp and to perhaps acclimatise) but could they not have done that somewhere closer to Japan?