What happened in Saipan? |
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Drumcondra 69er
Jack Charlton Joined: 07 Oct 2009 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 7124 |
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Was just about to type that. Chiba was fantastic but the way it was spun by Kennedy and RK incorporated was that Saipan was the training camp rather than a short r&r stopover. All the talk of no balls and training gear etc was bullsh*t. One skip load of shew stuff was delayed for a day due to a problem at DHL's end but everyone had gear to wear and balls to train with. Did the guts of a month in Japan and Korea for 2002. Incredible trip. Ended up out with the team trying to get over the disappointment of the Spain defeat. General opinion was that Roy didn't want to be there and it was a more effective camp without him. Have always believed that had Man U won a trophy that season Roy would have been more content but seeing Arsenal win the double and losing to Leverkussen in the Champions League semi final was eating him up. He should have skipped Saipan and gone straight but there's no guarantee he wouldn't have kicked off in Japan. Have to laugh at some of the comments saying McCarthy should have been treating Roy differently to the rest when he'd been doing exactly that for years.
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gspain
Ray Houghton Joined: 21 Apr 2010 Status: Offline Points: 4688 |
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I suspect gufct means the training camp used during the World Cup (in Chiba IIRC). I doubt if too many fans have ever been to Saipan.
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Yiksheemash
500 Club la la la I don't have a penis. Joined: 01 Aug 2011 Status: Offline Points: 530 |
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Ladies and gentlemen i present to you the first man in the history of the Irish state and the inhabitants of the island of Saipan to call the said facilities "fantastic"
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Yiksheemash
500 Club la la la I don't have a penis. Joined: 01 Aug 2011 Status: Offline Points: 530 |
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Claret Murph
Paul McGrath Hmmm, Goodness, I must say Joined: 16 Apr 2009 Location: Tibet Status: Offline Points: 15766 |
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Lansdowne Road debut aged 52 and 201 days .
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ConorMac77
Ray Houghton Joined: 22 Apr 2015 Location: Newry Status: Online Points: 3699 |
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That mention of T2 at Dublin Airport in the early 00's certainly had me raising an eyebrow seeing as I used DUB to go on a few holidays that year and there was certainly no fancy spage-age terminal at that time.
Edited by ConorMac77 - 27 May 2020 at 12:37am |
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The nation holds it's breath...YES, WE'RE THERE!!!
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Sham157
Moderator Group Joined: 17 Jul 2009 Location: Monaghan/Dublin Status: Offline Points: 33235 |
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gufct
Jack Charlton Trapattoni could manage me any day! Joined: 15 Feb 2009 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 6518 |
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Keane was off the gargle and was having serious problems coming to terms with it and as Saipan was for rnr the players went on the lash.
The Training facilities in Saipan were fantastic got to go there a couple of times and one other thing that was brilliant there the late Noel O’Reilly was coaching Japanese young players on an adjoining pitch. Dunphy and jd’s role In the whole sh*tshow ruined any chance of getting it sorted.
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One City,One County,One Club GUFC will be back.
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bundy
Davey Langan Joined: 12 Apr 2011 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 935 |
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I don’t believe for a second that Keane had expectations of winning a World Cup and succumbed to the pressure. This is a fella who 6 months earlier put captaining Man United in a league match in November over captaining Ireland in a match to get to the World Cup. Am I correct in saying that in one if his books Keane spoke about going back to play for Ireland and how much of a pain in the arse it was to do it - or am I imagining that he said that?
Keane is your typical sociopath & when I was bored in work earlier today I looked through photos of the squad in the airport heading for Saipan and he looked ready to fight someone in Terminal 2. Whatever happened in the few days leading up to the infamous blow out, he just snapped. If the squad was together for a month and he lost the head then I’d say something but they were only together a few days. At the Euros in 2012, the squad were all pissed off and hated the sight of each other by the time the tournament even kicked off. They had been together 3 weeks by the time they played Croatia. We had a few pints with one of the lads from the 2012 squad one night in Dublin and he said by the time they got to Poland they were wrecked. They had been training in Dublin, then went to Italy, then played Hungary then had a week in Poland. If this had of been the case in 2002 I could justify a meltdown but not after 2/3 days of light training like they had in Saipan.
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The O'Shea
Jack Charlton I know everything and I’m NEVER wrong Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 9571 |
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You are absolutely delusional if you believe that. I know it might suit your general narrative to try and paint this as some sort of "stupid Paddy had unrealistic notions, and then didn't even have the gumption to follow through!" situation, but that simply is not based in any kind of reality. No one, and I literally mean no one, expected Roy Keane to drag Ireland to World Cup victory. Suggesting that Keane downed tools because it "suddenly dawned on him" that he could not fulfil this unrealistic goal (which absolutely no one expected of him in the first place) is nothing short of farcical.
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We're decent enough..
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E2016
Liam Brady Joined: 13 Jan 2016 Location: Cork Status: Offline Points: 1784 |
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One of the issues he brought with him to Saipan was the situation around Niall Quinns testimonial, where the proceeds were to go toward Our Lady's childrens hospital in Crumlin. He pulled out of it with injury, despite not being injured in Uniteds last match, and despite being fit enough to play against Nigeria 2 days later. He also refused to write a note in the programme because he didn't like the journalist who was writing the programme. The media suggested that Roy had snubbed sick children and he definitely had that on his mind, especially considering he spoke about it to Tom Humphries, specifically how unhappy he was with the FAI's handling of the situation. |
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50%lesssugar&salt
Liam Brady Joined: 02 Sep 2017 Status: Offline Points: 1299 |
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Baldrick
Robbie Keane Peyton-tly Pedantic Joined: 18 Sep 2008 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 32823 |
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Damn predictive text, cant believe it found it considering I have never seen one.
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AKA pedantic kunt
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50%lesssugar&salt
Liam Brady Joined: 02 Sep 2017 Status: Offline Points: 1299 |
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Are we moving into the erotic now..
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Baldrick
Robbie Keane Peyton-tly Pedantic Joined: 18 Sep 2008 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 32823 |
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So the person in charge of logistics in Saipan said it wasn’t anything to do with logistics but it was due to Roy having a case of bad DTs. :). Sure he is a sound lad. Sounds like.a lad trying to deflect the blame on to someone else.
Regardless of keanes mood, the logistics were a shambles. Does that keane the excuse to undermine the manager in public,no it doesnt. But the fai trying to deflect blame on to keane giving up the booze to cover for their amateur preparations is disgraceful. Edited by Baldrick - 26 May 2020 at 5:41pm |
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AKA pedantic kunt
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irishmufc
Robbie Keane I love Vulvas Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Location: Dublin Status: Offline Points: 25119 |
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Agree with Bundy & The O'Shea (H2H's take on it seems very plausible too) but anyone touting how Keane and McCarthy were both wrong is revisionist 50/50 nonsense. One person was clearly more at fault than the other.
Can't find it anywhere on youtube but I do remember Steve Staunton's take on it in the press conference and how he never seen anyone speak to a manager like that which gives you a sense of who was clearly in the wrong. Any legitimate criticisms Keane had of the FAI and the preparations are nothing more than a smokescreen imo as he never respected McCarthy from day 1. He was waiting to explode and deserves most of the blame as to why he didn't play for his country at that world cup.
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Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
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heighway2heaven
Ray Houghton Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Location: Myanmar Status: Offline Points: 4209 |
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Roy took severe umbrage towards seeing the other lads at the beginning of the training camp, being given the opportunity by Mick to enjoy a few pints before they got stuck in to heavy preparations. Roy, who wasn't long having hung up his own drinking boots due to his demons, found this too difficult to swallow and this, I was told by a very well placed (now former) FAI member of the executive management team at the time, told me was the kernel of the whole fallout. This individual, a thorough gent who was central to arrangements and logistics on Saipan, would be a great judge of both character and situation and is honest as the day is long (yes, there were some honest high ranking FAI officials back in the day!). He maintains it was Roy's inability to be comfortable having others around him have a few enjoyable, innocent drinks, that set off the whole situation - a product of Roy's internal struggles, that spilled out and made the whole situation toxic and then there was no backing down, thus morphing in to surface/gear/preparations issues..
Call all that bullsh*t if you like, I believe what I was told by a respected individual who could hardly have been placed better at the time. EDIT: Hadn't read the thread. Bundy pretty much spot on with what he's saying. The few pints for the rest of the lads was the spark to the petrol. Edited by heighway2heaven - 26 May 2020 at 5:00pm |
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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That seems about right to me. But if he was just a "bomb waiting to explode" even from before they left the airport, who or what was it which loaded the Semtex onto him in the first place? Perhaps there might have been some personal reason which was winding him up. But unless/until we're told what it was, then my guess is that as he came to realise he was putting intolerable demands on himself (i.e. implying he could lead the team to win it), the pressure just built and built, so that Saipan was just the spark which finally detonated him. A bit like Roberto Duran's "No Mas" moment i.e. f**king off completely when he realised he couldn't beat Leonard.
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