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Best Ireland XI of Your Life Time

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2020 at 9:36pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Way before any of our times, but I would wager that Jimmy Dunne has the best goalscoring record of any Irish player ever. It's absolutely phenomenal.

Jimmy Dunne, born 03 September 1905:

League games only, goals in brackets:
1925–1926 New Brighton 38 (46)
1926–1934 Sheffield United 173 (169)
1934–1936 Arsenal 28 (10)
1936–1937 Southampton 36 (28)
1937–1942 Shamrock Rovers 87 (52)
Total
332 (305)
National team
1928–1932 Ireland (IFA) 7 (4)
1930–1939 Ireland (FAI) 15 (13)
1939–1942 League of Ireland XI 6 (2)


Edited by Territorial - 05 May 2020 at 9:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2020 at 9:37pm
"Head, Heel or Toe, Slip it to Joe" Bambrick, born 03 November 1905:

1926–1927 Glentoran 22 (28)
1927–1935 Linfield 183 (286)
1935–1938 Chelsea 59 (34)
1938–1939 Walsall 35 (15)
Total
299 (364)
National team
1928–1938 Ireland (IFA) 11 (12)
1927–1932 Irish League XI 12 (9)


Edited by Territorial - 05 May 2020 at 9:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2020 at 9:46pm
And "Toe, Heel or Head, Slip it to Fred" Roberts, also born in 1905:

"When Fred Roberts scored 96 goals in the 1930/31 season he set a British and Irish record unlikely ever to be matched. Still, such goalscoring feats were not unusual for Roberts. In his five seasons at the Oval his goal tallies read: 66, 57, 96, 64 and 49; they included 40 hattricks and goals in the 1932 and 1933 Irish Cup successes.

It was in his record-breaking season that Roberts was awarded his only Full international recognition (he had previously won a Junior cap while with Broadway United), but he failed to impress in a scrappy 0-0 draw in blustery conditions against Scotland. Some feel that Roberts’ form should have earned him a second chance, but at the time Ireland were in a rare position of also having the options of Joe Bambrick and Jimmy Dunne for the number nine shirt."

Between 1928 and 1933, Fred scored 332 goals in 221 games for Glentoran.




Edited by Territorial - 05 May 2020 at 10:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2020 at 10:34pm
Giles picked Derek Dougan in his attack. I'm too young to have seen him play, but he was a striker and scored 8 times for the north.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2020 at 10:44pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Giles picked Derek Dougan in his attack. I'm too young to have seen him play, but he was a striker and scored 8 times for the north.
 
I thought Giles was losing it a bit. He had Wes Hoolahan and Andy Reid as nominations in midfield! Now, I was a massive fan of the latter, but it is some stretch to have either of them anywhere near it. 
Robbie Keane is a very odd one. Is there some sort of personal dislike there? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2020 at 11:22pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Giles picked Derek Dougan in his attack. I'm too young to have seen him play, but he was a striker and scored 8 times for the north.
 
I thought Giles was losing it a bit. He had Wes Hoolahan and Andy Reid as nominations in midfield! Now, I was a massive fan of the latter, but it is some stretch to have either of them anywhere near it. 
Robbie Keane is a very odd one. Is there some sort of personal dislike there? 

Agree on Reid and Hoolahan
If you’re naming them surprising Duff didn’t get a shout 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2020 at 11:26pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Giles picked Derek Dougan in his attack. I'm too young to have seen him play, but he was a striker and scored 8 times for the north.
 

Dougan was a big bruiser I believe. Similar sort of style and goalscoring record to Niall Quinn, albeit less successful at international level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 2020 at 11:37pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Giles picked Derek Dougan in his attack. I'm too young to have seen him play, but he was a striker and scored 8 times for the north.
 

"Controversial" wasn't the word for The Doog! Forever falling out with chairmen/managers, so moved around far more than most players did in his day. An all-time cult hero at Molineux.

Anyhow, I've often heard the following said:
"He played more than 500 League matches, scored over 230 goals—first Irishman ever to top the 200 in the Football League—and saw more than 20 managers come and go in his days at Portsmouth, Blackburn, Aston Villa, Peterborough, Leicester City and Wolves."
https://www.soccerattic.com/article/the-doog/

But surely that should be Jimmy Dunne?

Anyhow, although he never did much for NI, he certainly could play, and while O'Shea is correct that he could be a bruiser - you had to be to play No.9 in his day - he actually had a wonderful touch, too.

In terms of ability and club career, I'd say that ordinarily he should be a contender, but he didn't do it at international level, so not for me, thanks.

Worth googling him for a legion of stories about his various escapades. And I liked his quip about growing up poor in East Belfast: "In our street, if you paid your rent three weeks in a row, the police came round to see where you'd got the money!" Wink



Edited by Territorial - 05 May 2020 at 11:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 12:03am
Dougan played in the Shamrock Rovers (All Ireland XI) v Brasil in 1973 (?) and was never picked for the North again.

The other Nordie players were.
"Smalling and Jones.... have the potential to be the PL’s best ever pairing in my opinion." - SlurAlex
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 12:53am
Originally posted by Gary McKay Gary McKay wrote:

Dougan played in the Shamrock Rovers (All Ireland XI) v Brasil in 1973 (?) and was never picked for the North again.

The other Nordie players were.

Aye, he claimed that he was victimised for co-organising that game (with Johnny Giles).

What he didn't disclose is that he was by now 35, hadn't played in any of NI's 5 games previously, nor scored in any of the last 10 games he had played for us before that.

And he retired from f-t football 18 months later, after a season when he played just 6 games for Wolves as injuries caught up with him.


Edited by Territorial - 06 May 2020 at 12:53am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote longford claret Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 6:43am
Think Doogan's autobiography was called ' The sash I never wore', or something similar. He was a great player for Wolves especially.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 7:52am
Originally posted by longford claret longford claret wrote:

Think Doogan's autobiography was called ' The sash I never wore', or something similar. He was a great player for Wolves especially.
Tainted his legacy somewhat by joining UKIP at the end.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Cockade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 10:21am
I had a few pints with Derek Dougan in a Belfast bar a couple of years before he died. One of the reasons he was ostracised at international level despite being a prolific goal scorer with all the clubs he played for was that Terry Neill and he had a mutual loathing for each other and Neill would never pick him while he was NI manager. He also told me that the 'Shamrock Rovers' all-Ireland gig went down like a ton of bricks with the suits at the IFA whom he clearly despised for their sectarianism and pettiness but he never regretted doing it. He was always generally regarded as a maverick since his early days in England with Blackburn Rovers I think it was when he was nicknamed 'Cheyenne' because of a Mohican haircut he affected at the time but I found him a friendly character with very honest opinions. Pity about the UKIP thing at the end but I'm keeping with his eccentricity I suppose.

Edited by Green Cockade - 06 May 2020 at 10:23am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote royal rover Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 12:16pm
one thing the podcast  on the all-ireland team did  highlight again was jacks  liking  for a specific  type  of player , brady , o'leary and to a lesser extend whelan  didn't fit into his plans at various stages between  87 to 90. Frightening to think this  could happen  now  if we had  players at top clubs who couldn't get near  the irish squad.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 12:28pm
Sure that was obvious to anyone who saw the team play.  

Jack conveniently used the Iceland excuse to drop o leary. 

Whelan couldnt get back in with his injury whereas McGrath probably would have.  

Brady was passed it by 1990 and in 88 was suspended and injured.  He played all of the qualifying campaign though.  

Jack's games resulted huge energy levels and not playing the ball at the back. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 2:15pm
Originally posted by Green Cockade Green Cockade wrote:

I had a few pints with Derek Dougan in a Belfast bar a couple of years before he died. One of the reasons he was ostracised at international level despite being a prolific goal scorer with all the clubs he played for was that Terry Neill and he had a mutual loathing for each other and Neill would never pick him while he was NI manager. He also told me that the 'Shamrock Rovers' all-Ireland gig went down like a ton of bricks with the suits at the IFA whom he clearly despised for their sectarianism and pettiness but he never regretted doing it.
See, that story about Neill ending his NI career certainly rings true, yet Harry Cavan and the IFA get it in the neck for same.

And I don't doubt that there were petty and sectarian characters in the IFA in those days, but if they were dead set against Dougan and Giles' all-Ireland venture, I suspect it was because they (the Blazers) weren't in charge. Remember that Liam Tuohy confirmed that the FAI wasn't keen on the game either.

Of course whenever the Shamrock Rovers XI gets brought up, and the accusations against the IFA and Cavan start to fly, what never gets mentioned is what happened in the period after that game. As Cormac Moore points out in his book "The Irish Soccer Split", the IFA held talks with the FAI in Belfast in October 1973 to "discuss matters of mutual interest", where the discussion was "very lengthy and amicable".
An All-Ireland team was one of the main items on the agenda, as it was in subsequent meetings in Dublin, Belfast and Dundalk etc, throughout the 70's.

As for Cavan, it was he who noted at the IFA's AGM in 1979 that "two teams in a small country like this was nonsensical" (before adding that anyone who thought that an all-Ireland team would win the World Cup was "living in cloud cuckoo land!")

Then we started qualifying for World Cups, followed by ROI doing so, which along with other developments ("Troubles" etc) led to the two Associations drifting apart again. 

Originally posted by Green Cockade Green Cockade wrote:

He was always generally regarded as a maverick since his early days in England with Blackburn Rovers I think it was when he was nicknamed 'Cheyenne' because of a Mohican haircut he affected at the time but I found him a friendly character with very honest opinions. Pity about the UKIP thing at the end but I'm keeping with his eccentricity I suppose.
See that's the thing.
I've no doubt that Dougan was personally very aimiable, good company and with good intentions etc. But as for his politics (both big and small "p"), he was a mass of contradictions. For example, he was a leading figure in the PFA, campaigning for player's rights etc, yet at the same time, he was later a "front man" for the Bhatti brothers, property developers who "raped" Wolves.
And for all his working class, socialist views, he later stood for UKIP, as you say.

The point being that at heart he was a Contrarian. And part of that contrariness was his role as an East Belfastman advocating an all-Ireland team. Of course, some people south of the border see that venture and give him a bye-ball over the UKIP nonsense. Just like there are people in NI who see the all-Ireland "betrayal", and won't allow for the good things he did. And a lot of Wolves fans just see what an exciting player he was and don't give a damn about any of the rest!

Meanwhile on a lighter note, who here can identify where/when this picture of The Doog with Johnny Fullam (Shamrock Rovers), actress Maureen O'Hara(!) and some Blazer was taken?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 2:19pm
O’Hara and her family were massive Rovers fans.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Cockade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 May 2020 at 4:21pm
Just a point on the feud between The Doog and Terry Neill-this really kicked off after the ' Shamrock Rovers' v Brazil game, with Dougan totally shunned by Neill after it. Neill had originally appointed him as NI captain but within a couple of years an irreconcilable relationship had developed and it didn't matter that Dougan was NI's most prolific goal scorer, he was never getting picked again. The terms Dougan used to describe Neill ( 'bastard' was the one he used the most often) suggested to me that the sheer injustice rankled badly with him and he viewed Neill as nothing better than a Patsy for the worst of the suits.
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