Best Ireland XI of Your Life Time
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Topic: Best Ireland XI of Your Life Time
Posted By: zizu Kilbane
Subject: Best Ireland XI of Your Life Time
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 9:32am
I know there have been a load of these threads down through the years but seeing as there is almost nothing else to do at the moment, thought I'd have a stab at this. You had to have seen the players in the flesh. Beat Ireland XI since I started going to games in 1996:
GK - Shay Given
RB - Steve Finnan (most difficult position to pick, we've had serious right backs over the past 30 years, Carr, Coleman, Gary Kelly, Doherty. Finnan shade it for me, champions league winner etc)
CB - Richard Dunne
CB - John O'Shea
LB - Denis Iriwn (Ireland's greates ever full back)
RW - Damien Duff (mostly played on the left or upfront for us but his best game against Spain in WC 2002, he tormented them playing in the right)
CM - Roy Keane (Captain)
CM - Wes Houlihan
LW - Kevin Kilbane (THE GOAT)
CF - Johnny Walters
ST - Robbie Keane
------------- "Sometimes, sh*t happens, someone's gotta deal with it, and who ya gonna call?"
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Replies:
Posted By: McG
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 9:41am
Irwin should have had 100 caps.
------------- YBIG Table Quiz winner 2016 & 2017 AS YOU WERE McGx
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Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 10:01am
I am going to base mine on service/performances for Ieland rather than club career.
Given
Hughton
McGrath
Moran
Irwin
Whelan
Keane
Brady
Houghton
Keane
Stapleton
Tough to leave out Duff, Dunne, O'Shea, Lawrenson,Townsend sheedy, Aldridge, Quinn and loads more.
With the exception of Given all of these played for top clubs competing for cups and leagues etc.
------------- AKA pedantic kunt
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Posted By: Roberto Baggio
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 10:10am
Given Coleman Dunne McGrath Irwin Houghton Ronnie Whelan Keane Duff Keane Quinn
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Posted By: Shedite
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 10:21am
Given O'Shea Dunne McGrath Irwin Duff Keane Houghton Kilbane Keane Quinn
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Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 10:46am
Given- Bonner was always a favourite and I would rather have in, but Given was class at his best. Was probably overrated by many within the Irish support, myself include, at times, who claimed he was world-class, he was short of that, but he was excellent.
Finnan- A position we with the most choice. In my time there has been a few contenders, including dropping Irwin in here to accommodate Stan or Phelan on the left, but Finnan was an excellent right-back who went about his business quietly and assuredly.
McGrath- No debate. One of the few genuinely world-class players to play for us. He might have been better without the demons, but it wouldn't have been as interesting.
Dunne- Just ahead of O'Leary as I missed out on his best days and so did Ireland, to a degree. Settled down to become a top class player after an inconsistent start to his career. A 100% man and old school defender.
Irwin- Consistent defender and a lovely footballer.
Sheedy- I only really caught the end of him, but what a left foot! The standout in an excellent Everton team.
Keane- Leaving the controversy aside, what a player! Everyone goes on about his determination and leadership on the field, but he was technically brilliant too. Never gave the wrong pass.
Townsend- A vital part of the Charlton game plan. As annoying as he became as a pundit, he seemed to get what the fans wanted from a player and tried his best to deliver it.
Houghton- I loved his scampering style, he was a fine footballer who will always be fondly remembered for those goals and, less fondly, for that miss!
Quinn- What a touch, for a big man. Underrated as a footballer by many who remember him as just a target man. His control was excellent though and, despite all the 'Mother Teresa' jibes, seems a genuinely decent fella.
Keane- May not be the best player to play for Ireland, but is undoubtedly the best player for Ireland. An unbelievable contribution.
------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Posted By: Drumcondra 69er
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 10:46am
McG wrote:
Irwin should have had 100 caps.
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Where would you get the extra 44? 100 is a stretch given he was playing in the old Division 2 till he was 24 and we were well stacked with full backs on either side when he was playing. Beglin, Hughton, Morris, Langan, Anderson, Staunton at the start of his career and Kelly, Carr, Finnan, Kenna, Harte all playing top end Premier League at the other end. Kelly and Carr had two appearances on the PFA team of the year which matches Irwin's haul and Harte and Finnan made it once.
I think Irwin was our best full back but it's understandable why he didn't make the century. Am sure there were a few matches Fergie pulled him out of as well.
------------- Blog: http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI Twitter: @afalsefirstxi Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/afalsefirstxi/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI
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Posted By: Roberto Baggio
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 10:53am
In hindsight i'll change Coleman and replace him with Steve Finnan in my team. Finnan was excellent and very consistent. Coleman's choice for me initially was really based on his club form, he has never replicated that for Ireland for a consistent run of games. Can't have John O'Shea anywhere near the team either. Seems a great lad and had some club career but never really rated him as a player
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Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 10:58am
O'Shea got better as he got older. He was all over the place as a young fella.
------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Posted By: Roberto Baggio
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 10:59am
pre Madonna wrote:
O'Shea got better as he got older. He was all over the place as a young fella. |
Agree
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Posted By: gspain
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 11:20am
Only those I've seen in green
Given Irwin Staunton McGrath Lawrenson Roy Keane Brady Giles Duff Robbie Keane Stapleton
No Whelan Galvin, Moran , O'Leary , Heighway , Coleman , O'Shea , Bonner, Beglin (had he played more definitely) , Quinn, Houghton , Dunne and many more.
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Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 11:25am
I think finnan is very lucky to be in peoples teams. A sold quiet full back who didnt play that much for Ireland and often lost put to carr or kelly or even p shea at times. I cant think of many stand out performances. Had an excellent club career. But really Kelly or Staunton deserve to be ahead of him I have gone for hughton during my time.
Also who picked kilbane over duff whelan and sheedy :) in their midfield (they had houghton in it(
------------- AKA pedantic kunt
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Posted By: McG
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 12:16pm
Drumcondra 69er wrote:
McG wrote:
Irwin should have had 100 caps.
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Where would you get the extra 44? 100 is a stretch given he was playing in the old Division 2 till he was 24 and we were well stacked with full backs on either side when he was playing. Beglin, Hughton, Morris, Langan, Anderson, Staunton at the start of his career and Kelly, Carr, Finnan, Kenna, Harte all playing top end Premier League at the other end. Kelly and Carr had two appearances on the PFA team of the year which matches Irwin's haul and Harte and Finnan made it once.
I think Irwin was our best full back but it's understandable why he didn't make the century. Am sure there were a few matches Fergie pulled him out of as well.
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I am not saying he should have had them ahead of others, i am just saying his ability deserved it.
Ahead of Kenna and Phelan for me for what it's worth.
------------- YBIG Table Quiz winner 2016 & 2017 AS YOU WERE McGx
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Posted By: Drumcondra 69er
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 12:19pm
McG wrote:
Drumcondra 69er wrote:
McG wrote:
Irwin should have had 100 caps.
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Where would you get the extra 44? 100 is a stretch given he was playing in the old Division 2 till he was 24 and we were well stacked with full backs on either side when he was playing. Beglin, Hughton, Morris, Langan, Anderson, Staunton at the start of his career and Kelly, Carr, Finnan, Kenna, Harte all playing top end Premier League at the other end. Kelly and Carr had two appearances on the PFA team of the year which matches Irwin's haul and Harte and Finnan made it once.
I think Irwin was our best full back but it's understandable why he didn't make the century. Am sure there were a few matches Fergie pulled him out of as well.
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I am not saying he should have had them ahead of others, i am just saying his ability deserved it.
Ahead of Kenna and Phelan for me for what it's worth. |
Meant to have Phelan in that list actually. We were absolutely overloaded with quality full backs in that era.
------------- Blog: http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI Twitter: @afalsefirstxi Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/afalsefirstxi/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI
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Posted By: Left foot
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 12:22pm
Old terry phelan!!! Good player with.pace to burn.
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Posted By: Het-field
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 12:26pm
100 caps is hard to achieve. And I think the uniting factor of all our “Club 100” players is that they made their debut between the age of 17-20 and all (apart from Kilbane) attended more than one major tournament. That also applied to Quinn and McGeady (and theoretically McGeady might make it).
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Posted By: Roberto Baggio
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 12:34pm
Left foot wrote:
Old terry phelan!!! Good player with.pace to burn. |
Always remember his goal against Spurs in the FA Cup at Maine Road. Was a consolation goal late on to make it 4-1 or 4-2 I think. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBBjWbj0MQU" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBBjWbj0MQU
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Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 12:51pm
Roberto Baggio wrote:
Left foot wrote:
Old terry phelan!!! Good player with.pace to burn. |
Always remember his goal against Spurs in the FA Cup at Maine Road. Was a consolation goal late on to make it 4-1 or 4-2 I think. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBBjWbj0MQU" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBBjWbj0MQU |
Without watching it, is that where there was a massive pitch invasion to have it abandoned? He also has a more Mancunian accent than anybody else. It sounds like somebody taking the piss
------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Posted By: Roberto Baggio
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 1:00pm
Yeah, pitch invasion after that goal
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Posted By: Deco79
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 1:47pm
Given Irwin McGrath Dunne Staunton
Keane Houghton Duff Townsend
Keane Quinn
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Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 1:56pm
what's with people leaving out Whelan. I know you could possibly put Brady Keane and Giles ahead of him like Gspain did. Or if you didnt see him play like some have. But anyone who has Houghton in has to have whelan in too as they were playing at similar times. Whelan played right up to 95 but his best work was done in the 80s. Brilliant footballer who won european cups and leagues and fa cups and was brilliant for ireland at euro 88 and in the qualifiers for Italia 90
------------- AKA pedantic kunt
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Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 1:57pm
I see Given at left-back and no keeper!
------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Posted By: Left foot
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 2:00pm
pre Madonna wrote:
I see Given at left-back and no keeper! |
Duff seems to be subbing himself off
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Posted By: lassassinblanc
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 2:20pm
Tough one
GK: Shay Given- Bonner is always fondly remembered for the Penalty shootout but Shay was a great servant for us and saved us many times, also a soft spot for him for doing the same for Newcastle for years.
Rb: Denis Irwin- I know I'm playing him out of position but he was well capable of doing so, one our most under rated players of the last 30 years he's one of those players every single player who played with him has him straight into their team. How as people say he didn't win 100 + caps is beyond me.
cb: Paul McGrath :Another who i don't think great the credit he deserves more outside of Ireland if it wasn't for his addictions would been a key player in world football.
cb: Richard Dunne- early days he was shocking due to similar issues McGrath has (another point to show how brilliant McGrath was that he was still brilliant during those days). But back to Dunne from around 2006 onwards he just became a rock from club and country.
Lb: Ian Harte: some probably won't agree with him being on this list but I think he was one of better players during Mick's first reign, wand of a left foot, the penalty miss against Spain probably soured his contribution during that period.
RW: Damien Duff- again out of position as he'd be predominantly a left winger but I had to have him in the team and couldn't leave out the player I have at left wing. Again maybe a player who could have done more for us but was a great servant for us.
CM: Roy Keane: no explanation needed
CM: Glen Whelan: just to piss people off (I actually agree with PM's inclusion of Andy Townsend a key player during our most successful era under Charlton)
LW: Kevin Sheedy: one of our most under rated players, another player which most players who have played with him have him in their teams.
CF: Niall Quinn- another under rated player always gave 110% for us and great servant, Would we have gone further in 94 if he was part of the squad???
CF: Robbie Keane: Oh how we have missed Robbie, our greatest ever striker no question
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Posted By: horsebox
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 2:26pm
Probably Harte's only peno's miss for Ireland?
------------- It was far across the sea, When the devil got a hold of me, He wouldn't set me free, So he kept me soul for ransom. na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na. I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to
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Posted By: lassassinblanc
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 2:30pm
horsebox wrote:
Probably Harte's only peno's miss for Ireland? |
Perhaps, anytime we got a free kick within any distance I was confident he'd at least make the keeper work
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Posted By: Drumcondra 69er
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 3:06pm
Left foot wrote:
Old terry phelan!!! Good player with.pace to burn. |
Bizarre to think that Leeds let both him and Irwon leave for next to nothing.
------------- Blog: http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI Twitter: @afalsefirstxi Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/afalsefirstxi/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI
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Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 3:07pm
Jesus now Glenn whelan agead of ronnie ffs :)
Whelan was up there with Keane as a player.
I dont think people.l realise how good Ronnie was. Liverpool sold sheedy to keep whelan. He played left wing and then played the holding role for liverpool after Souness left
------------- AKA pedantic kunt
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Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 3:25pm
Baldrick wrote:
Jesus now Glenn whelan agead of ronnie ffs :)
Whelan was up there with Keane as a player.
I dont think people.l realise how good Ronnie was. Liverpool sold sheedy to keep whelan. He played left wing and then played the holding role for liverpool after Souness left |
Italia '90 was my first proper tournament, so I am open to correction, I don't think he was as good for Ireland as he was for Liverpool. This being the best Ireland XI of my lifetime Townsend was close to a certainty. And that's having watched back a lot of Liverpool in their pomp and seeing how good he was. He was excellent.
------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Posted By: Shedite
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 3:30pm
Baldie I think the problem is we're too young. Ronnie was a bit part player for Ireland past '88. So anyone under 40 probably doesn't remember him at his peak for Ireland
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Posted By: Darren
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 3:40pm
Bonner Irwin McGrath Dunne Staunton Brady Whelan Keane Duff Keane Aldridge
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Posted By: Delfor Mullin
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 3:43pm
my team
1-Shay Given 2-Paul McGrath 3-Jim Beglin 4-Kevin Moran 5-David O´Leary 6-Roy Keane 7-Robbie Keane 8-Ronnie Whelan 9-Frank Stapleton 10-Liam Brady 11-Damian Duff
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Posted By: Conan
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 3:45pm
Staunton was a top players through the 90's, would have got in any international side you'd think. You'd think he'd have got a lot more nominations above if he hadn't been such a clown of a manager. Sheedy was a cracking player and my favourite when I started following the game. Thought about O'Leary alongside McGrath but maybe not looking back at a couple of things!
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Posted By: McG
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 3:52pm
Shedite wrote:
Baldie I think the problem is we're too young. Ronnie was a bit part player for Ireland past '88. So anyone under 40 probably doesn't remember him at his peak for Ireland |
Yeah exactly. He made his debut in 81 and played in some cracking games i.e. 3-2 against the french
But Jack used him sparingly enough after 88. In fact, i had forgotten that he captained the side to that horrible draw away on the mountain top to liechtenstein in 95. He was done then.
------------- YBIG Table Quiz winner 2016 & 2017 AS YOU WERE McGx
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Posted By: lassassinblanc
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 3:58pm
pre Madonna wrote:
Baldrick wrote:
Jesus now Glenn whelan agead of ronnie ffs :)
Whelan was up there with Keane as a player.
I dont think people.l realise how good Ronnie was. Liverpool sold sheedy to keep whelan. He played left wing and then played the holding role for liverpool after Souness left |
Italia '90 was my first proper tournament, so I am open to correction, I don't think he was as good for Ireland as he was for Liverpool. This being the best Ireland XI of my lifetime Townsend was close to a certainty. And that's having watched back a lot of Liverpool in their pomp and seeing how good he was. He was excellent.
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Yep I never really seen the best of Ronnie Whelan myself, as I said I only put in Glen as a fishing rod and appears I've caught my first fish. I'd have Townsend ahead of him all day long in fact Whelan(Glen) wouldn't be in my top 10 centre mids I've seen down the years
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Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 4:40pm
McG wrote:
Shedite wrote:
Baldie I think the problem is we're too young. Ronnie was a bit part player for Ireland past '88. So anyone under 40 probably doesn't remember him at his peak for Ireland |
Yeah exactly. He made his debut in 81 and played in some cracking games i.e. 3-2 against the french
But Jack used him sparingly enough after 88. In fact, i had forgotten that he captained the side to that horrible draw away on the mountain top to liechtenstein in 95. He was done then. |
He was a mainstay for the qualifiers for Italia 90. Class against northern Ireland at home and spain at home. If you include sheedy and houghton I find it hard how people have whelan left out to be replaced by glen whelan etc. If you didnt see ireland to post 90 I can see how Townsend is there.
------------- AKA pedantic kunt
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Posted By: Croftman
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 4:41pm
Given Irwin McGrath Dunne Staunton Duff Whelan Keane Sheedy Keane Quinn
------------- Some people just deserve a slap
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Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 4:52pm
Delfor Mullin wrote:
my team
1-Shay Given 2-Paul McGrath 3-Jim Beglin 4-Kevin Moran 5-David O´Leary 6-Roy Keane 7-Robbie Keane 8-Ronnie Whelan 9-Frank Stapleton 10-Liam Brady 11-Damian Duff |
Struggling to figure out the formation
------------- AKA pedantic kunt
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Posted By: DeclanDaly
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 4:59pm
Given Irwin Dunne McGrath Staunton Houghton Keane R. Whelan Sheedy Duff Keane
------------- You asked if I'd be anyone from history, fact or fiction, dead or alive: I said "I'd be Tony Cascarino, circa 1995"
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Posted By: Delfor Mullin
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 5:18pm
Baldrick wrote:
Delfor Mullin wrote:
my team
1-Shay Given 2-Paul McGrath 3-Jim Beglin 4-Kevin Moran 5-David O´Leary 6-Roy Keane 7-Robbie Keane 8-Ronnie Whelan 9-Frank Stapleton 10-Liam Brady 11-Damian Duff |
Struggling to figure out the formation |
anyone from McGrath/Moran/O`Leary as fullback on the right. Main attack throughout Jim Beglin, was the best attacking left back in Europe for over two years, even a Calcio move was on the table at the time, until he was injured.
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Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 5:23pm
It should be 'Ro.' Keane to avoid confusion.
------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Posted By: t_rAndy
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 5:47pm
Deco79 wrote:
Given Irwin McGrath Dunne Staunton
Keane Houghton Duff Townsend
Keane Quinn |
Starting watching Ireland about 93. This would be it for me
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Posted By: Double Maxim
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 6:11pm
Croftman wrote:
GivenIrwin McGrath Dunne Staunton Duff Whelan Keane Sheedy Keane Quinn |
Like that line though find it difficult not to have Liam Brady in the team.
------------- Double Maxim without doubt the greatest drink in the world
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Posted By: Shedite
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 6:31pm
Baldrick wrote:
McG wrote:
Shedite wrote:
Baldie I think the problem is we're too young. Ronnie was a bit part player for Ireland past '88. So anyone under 40 probably doesn't remember him at his peak for Ireland |
Yeah exactly. He made his debut in 81 and played in some cracking games i.e. 3-2 against the french
But Jack used him sparingly enough after 88. In fact, i had forgotten that he captained the side to that horrible draw away on the mountain top to liechtenstein in 95. He was done then. |
He was a mainstay for the qualifiers for Italia 90. Class against northern Ireland at home and spain at home. If you include sheedy and houghton I find it hard how people have whelan left out to be replaced by glen whelan etc. If you didnt see ireland to post 90 I can see how Townsend is there. | Yeah I was 7 at Italia 90 so don't really remember anything before that.
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Posted By: Drumcondra 69er
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 7:16pm
Baldrick wrote:
McG wrote:
Shedite wrote:
Baldie I think the problem is we're too young. Ronnie was a bit part player for Ireland past '88. So anyone under 40 probably doesn't remember him at his peak for Ireland |
Yeah exactly. He made his debut in 81 and played in some cracking games i.e. 3-2 against the french
But Jack used him sparingly enough after 88. In fact, i had forgotten that he captained the side to that horrible draw away on the mountain top to liechtenstein in 95. He was done then. |
He was a mainstay for the qualifiers for Italia 90. Class against northern Ireland at home and spain at home. If you include sheedy and houghton I find it hard how people have whelan left out to be replaced by glen whelan etc. If you didnt see ireland to post 90 I can see how Townsend is there. |
Was there a serious suggestion to have Glen Whelan in instead? Saw him mentioned once as a joke with Townsend actually being the selection.
Ronnie gpt injured at the tail end of the 89/90 season and was very injury prone for Ireland during and post Italia '90. Wasn't fit in 94 eiither but still made the squad and got a run against Norway.
He was an exceptional player at his peak and is underrated. Suffered due to the fact that he wasn't fit for either World Cup, would be rated higher had he been fit and picked. His career after 1990 wasa very stop/start till he retired.
------------- Blog: http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI Twitter: @afalsefirstxi Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/afalsefirstxi/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI
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Posted By: deise316
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2020 at 12:37am
Given Irwin McGrath Dunne Stan Houghton Royston R.Whelan Sheedy Quinn Rob Keane
Just on Irwin, I don't have the exact stats on how many times he played LB for Ireland, but he mostly played on the right. He was a right footed right back at Leeds & Oldham, who Ferguson coverted to LB at Man U. He did play for us at LB a few times, like when Sheedy was injured and Staunton was pushed to LW, but I'd say less than 10 of his caps were playing left back.
I really only saw the end of Mark Lawrenson's and Liam Brady's careers, both great players and all time Ireland XI candidates who would be in that team (ahead of Dunne & Ronnie) if my memory was better !
Other candidates, maybe an odd one, but Kenny Cunningham rarely made an error playing for us, yet would rarely feature in any 'greatest Irish CB's' conversation. I do think people would have viewed that differently had he kept his fitness before 2002 and been able to stay 1st choice, as he was pre injury, for the 2002 WC ahead of one of Breen or Stan (who is in my team at LB, but was never a convincing CB in my view)
Moran is an obvious one, tough as nails defender who rarely had a bad game, put his head anywhere. O'Shea, nah. He really only played well for us after Trap took over and eventually moved him to CB when St Ledger had the first of his many injuries in his 2nd campaign. He was rock solid after that, but his early years, and probably about 50/60 caps, he nearly attracted as much criticism as Whelan & Hendrick do these days, some of it justified.
------------- Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....
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Posted By: RKeane
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2020 at 5:32am
First game I can remember watching was Saudi Arabia 2002 & first game I was at was the friendly against Australia in 2003. So will go from 02 - Present
My team would be..
Given
Coleman Dunne O’Shea Kilbane
Keane McCarthy
Wes
Duff Keane Long
Serious lack of options in midfield as nobody after Roy has stood out in the centre for us so went with who is the best player on form out of Whelan, Andrews & McCarthy.
Long not the most naturally gifted but the effect his workrate over the past decade has had on the team cannot be underestimated and of course that goal v Germany.
Randolph has never put foot wrong for us either, deserves a shout.
------------- YESSSS! IT'S THERE
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Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2020 at 7:02am
deise316 wrote:
GivenIrwin McGrath Dunne Stan Houghton Royston R.Whelan Sheedy Quinn Rob Keane
Just on Irwin, I don't have the exact stats on how many times he played LB for Ireland, but he mostly played on the right. He was a right footed right back at Leeds & Oldham, who Ferguson coverted to LB at Man U. He did play for us at LB a few times, like when Sheedy was injured and Staunton was pushed to LW, but I'd say less than 10 of his caps were playing left back.
I really only saw the end of Mark Lawrenson's and Liam Brady's careers, both great players and all time Ireland XI candidates who would be in that team (ahead of Dunne & Ronnie) if my memory was better !
Other candidates, maybe an odd one, but Kenny Cunningham rarely made an error playing for us, yet would rarely feature in any 'greatest Irish CB's' conversation. I do think people would have viewed that differently had he kept his fitness before 2002 and been able to stay 1st choice, as he was pre injury, for the 2002 WC ahead of one of Breen or Stan (who is in my team at LB, but was never a convincing CB in my view)
Moran is an obvious one, tough as nails defender who rarely had a bad game, put his head anywhere. O'Shea, nah. He really only played well for us after Trap took over and eventually moved him to CB when St Ledger had the first of his many injuries in his 2nd campaign. He was rock solid after that, but his early years, and probably about 50/60 caps, he nearly attracted as much criticism as Whelan & Hendrick do these days, some of it justified.
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Fair points,I just always feel he was slightly better on the left. The problem with Kenny Cunningham is if you play him you have to play his eyebrows.
------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Posted By: lassassinblanc
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2020 at 8:52am
Why was it that Irwin has so few caps?
Was it just our lack of games during his time?(not qualifying for 3 tournaments during his time in the squad 92,06, 98) Was it injuries? Was it Ferguson just being a prick and pulling him from squads? Did Charlton and Mick just prefer someone else at right/left back over him?
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Posted By: Shedite
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2020 at 9:02am
lassassinblanc wrote:
Why was it that Irwin has so few caps?
Was it just our lack of games during his time?(not qualifying for 3 tournaments during his time in the squad 92,06, 98) Was it injuries? Was it Ferguson just being a prick and pulling him from squads? Did Charlton and Mick just prefer someone else at right/left back over him? | From looking at his appearances, looks like he only missed 12 games in his prime, when he turned 30, Gary Kelly appeared as a 22 year old. https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/denis-irwin/nationalmannschaft/spieler/4280" rel="nofollow - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/denis-irwin/nationalmannschaft/spieler/4280
Looks like a lot of the games he was dropped were due to his pace, most famously when Phelan played against Netherlands in 94 to mark Overmars.
Also interesting in that list, he only played 4 of 16 friendlies in his time.
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Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2020 at 9:06am
He was still playing in the second division in 1990, moving to Old Trafford that summer and making his debut that season and he was 24 at that point. I don't think he was every Charlton's type of player, there was some rumour, I think, of a disagreement, but most of his caps came over those two campaigns where he was first choice. I think by the time Mick came in Fergie was able to tell national managers where to go, see Giggs and Keane, and Mick was bringing through the youth. He was still involved though. His free-kick against Belgium stands out in my mind as being the most 'un-Irish' goal of that decade!
------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Posted By: Het-field
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2020 at 9:22am
Also, it could be argued that Irwin finished his international career somewhat prematurely. Players like Niall Quinn were not significantly older, yet still played on until 2002. Irwin left Manchester United that year, and could have attended the 2002 WC, albeit at 36 years old. The likes of Cascarino, Houghton, McGrath and Aldo all made their final appearances in squads and in games on the other side of 35. You either start your international career early, or extend it. But even at that, Irwin would probably still have fallen short of being a 100 cap winner.
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Posted By: lassassinblanc
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2020 at 9:32am
Shedite wrote:
lassassinblanc wrote:
Why was it that Irwin has so few caps?
Was it just our lack of games during his time?(not qualifying for 3 tournaments during his time in the squad 92,06, 98) Was it injuries? Was it Ferguson just being a prick and pulling him from squads? Did Charlton and Mick just prefer someone else at right/left back over him? | From looking at his appearances, looks like he only missed 12 games in his prime, when he turned 30, Gary Kelly appeared as a 22 year old. https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/denis-irwin/nationalmannschaft/spieler/4280" rel="nofollow - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/denis-irwin/nationalmannschaft/spieler/4280
Looks like a lot of the games he was dropped were due to his pace, most famously when Phelan played against Netherlands in 94 to mark Overmars.
Also interesting in that list, he only played 4 of 16 friendlies in his time. |
So it's kind of mixture of a few of the above so
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Posted By: McG
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2020 at 9:42am
pre Madonna wrote:
He was still playing in the second division in 1990, moving to Old Trafford that summer and making his debut that season and he was 24 at that point. I don't think he was every Charlton's type of player, there was some rumour, I think, of a disagreement, but most of his caps came over those two campaigns where he was first choice. I think by the time Mick came in Fergie was able to tell national managers where to go, see Giggs and Keane, and Mick was bringing through the youth. He was still involved though. His free-kick against Belgium stands out in my mind as being the most 'un-Irish' goal of that decade! |
Not sure if Dinny was included in this but didnt Mick tell some of the senior players like McGrath to prove themselves for inclusion?
The folly of a youthful manager in his first real gig.
------------- YBIG Table Quiz winner 2016 & 2017 AS YOU WERE McGx
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Posted By: Drumcondra 69er
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2020 at 10:08am
McG wrote:
pre Madonna wrote:
He was still playing in the second division in 1990, moving to Old Trafford that summer and making his debut that season and he was 24 at that point. I don't think he was every Charlton's type of player, there was some rumour, I think, of a disagreement, but most of his caps came over those two campaigns where he was first choice. I think by the time Mick came in Fergie was able to tell national managers where to go, see Giggs and Keane, and Mick was bringing through the youth. He was still involved though. His free-kick against Belgium stands out in my mind as being the most 'un-Irish' goal of that decade! |
Not sure if Dinny was included in this but didnt Mick tell some of the senior players like McGrath to prove themselves for inclusion?
The folly of a youthful manager in his first real gig. |
That's a myth. McCarthy picked Jeff Kenna for a friendly against Argentina and had Irwin on the bench. When he brought Irwin on he made a little jibe and told Irwin to 'prove me wrong'. This got twisted into 'prove yourself' in the media and then for dragged up as a stick to beat him with post Saipan.
Irwin always intended retiring post Euro 2000 so that Macedonia goal effectively ended his career despite playing the play offs against Turkey.
------------- Blog: http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI Twitter: @afalsefirstxi Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/afalsefirstxi/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI
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Posted By: Ecumenical Matter
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2020 at 10:36pm
Given
Irwin McGrath Lawrensen Beglin
Houghton Keane Brady Duff
Aldridge Keane
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Posted By: 50%lesssugar&salt
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2020 at 11:49pm
Kiely
Finnan McGrath Dunne Irwin
Duff Keane Sheridan Houghton
Quinn Keane
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Posted By: CillDara
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 1:50am
Based on who I have seen in the flesh:
Given - our best ever keeper, one of the best in the PL for many years.
Coleman - tough one to call but I would have Coleman ahead of the others for the fact he is such a leader as well. Finnan and Carr two great right backs but neither impressed me in a green shirt as much as Coleman. Dunne - apart from the Keanes and Duffer probably the next best in the team, put in some heroic performances for us and seemed to get better as the years went on. Duffy - in recent years has been our most important player, almost the new Dunne in a way. Such a brave performer. O'Shea - would have put O'Shea in the middle instead of Duffy but LB is a real weak spot. Harte was good but memories of him are damaged towards the end. O'Shea could perform anywhere and arguably our most consistent performer of the last 20 years.
Whelan - Not spoiled for choice here and despite him getting a fair bit of stick he has always done a good job for us under Trap, MON & Mick. We have had many players in this position who should be selected ahead of him but have ultimately not lived up to expectation. Keane - too young to remember the majority of his Ireland career but almost single handily won us some games on the way to qualifying for WC2002. Club career speaks for itself. Walters - In the MON era he really stood up to the plate and was a hugely influential player. Scored some big goals and suited our long ball game so well, was a real blow when he got injured before Euro 2016. Hoolahan - Criminally underused and one of the best footballers we have produced in my lifetime. We changed how we played when he was on the pitch and will always remember his goal v Sweden (my first game at a tournament). Duff - on his day I would say he was the best player I've seen in an Ireland jersey. Changed his game as the years went on but was always a class act.
Keane - what can you say, we will be lucky to have someone like him again and my favourite Irish player of all time.
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Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 7:33am
Which Coleman is that at right-back? I assumed Séamus first, but then I started reading about leaders and thought there must have been another one before my time.
------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Posted By: Drumcondra 69er
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 10:36am
Ecumenical Matter wrote:
Given
Irwin McGrath Lawrensen Beglin
Houghton Keane Brady Duff
Aldridge Keane
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That would be close to mine only with Lawrenson at centre half.
Might put Quinn in there ahead of Aldo for the partnership with Robbie, think they really complemented each other when they played together.
------------- Blog: http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI Twitter: @afalsefirstxi Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/afalsefirstxi/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI
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Posted By: FrankosHereNow
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 11:00am
Dean Kiely
------------- YBIG Quiz Champion 2016, 2017 & 2018.
As You Were Three in a row
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Posted By: Left foot
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 11:50am
Keith branagan
Alex Bruce Liam Daish Curtis Fleming Darren o'dea
Lee Carsley Paul Green Stephen mcphail Darren Potter
Tommy Coyne Caleb Folan
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Posted By: Roberto Baggio
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 11:53am
Left foot wrote:
Keith branagan
Alex Bruce Liam Daish Curtis Fleming Darren o'dea
Lee Carsley Paul Green Stephen mcphail Darren Potter
Tommy Coyne Caleb Folan
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Ridiculous. Paul Butler would definitely be in
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Posted By: Green Cockade
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 12:00pm
As would Joe O'Cearuill and Joe Lapira.
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Posted By: 50%lesssugar&salt
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 12:37pm
FrankosHereNow wrote:
Dean Kiely |
You might be thinking of Paddy Kenny
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Posted By: Drumcondra 69er
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 12:58pm
Left foot wrote:
Keith branagan
Alex Bruce Liam Daish Curtis Fleming Darren o'dea
Lee Carsley Paul Green Stephen mcphail Darren Potter
Tommy Coyne Caleb Folan
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Ridiculously harsh on Carsley. And Coyne to a degree.
Keith Branagan
John Thompson Alex Bruce Paul Butler Liam Daish
Jim Goodwin Mike Milligan Darren Potter Joe Lapira
Mickey Evans Jon Macken
------------- Blog: http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI Twitter: @afalsefirstxi Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/afalsefirstxi/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI
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Posted By: FrankosHereNow
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 1:00pm
50%lesssugar&salt wrote:
FrankosHereNow wrote:
Dean Kiely |
You might be thinking of Paddy Kenny | Give over. Even you don’t believe kiely is the best keeper you’ve seen play for Ireland.
Kiely must have about 10 caps. Decent keeper but nowhere near as good as Given.
------------- YBIG Quiz Champion 2016, 2017 & 2018.
As You Were Three in a row
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Posted By: DeclanDaly
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 1:06pm
Drumcondra 69er wrote:
Left foot wrote:
Keith branagan
Alex Bruce Liam Daish Curtis Fleming Darren o'dea
Lee Carsley Paul Green Stephen mcphail Darren Potter
Tommy Coyne Caleb Folan
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Ridiculously harsh on Carsley. And Coyne to a degree.
Keith Branagan
John Thompson Alex Bruce Paul Butler Liam Daish
Jim Goodwin Mike Milligan Darren Potter Joe Lapira
Mickey Evans Jon Macken
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You’re asking for trouble playing Lapira on the wing. Poor Liam Daish
------------- You asked if I'd be anyone from history, fact or fiction, dead or alive: I said "I'd be Tony Cascarino, circa 1995"
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Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 1:22pm
Carsley? f**k off! Coyne should be nowhere such a side either!
------------- Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Posted By: FrankosHereNow
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 1:24pm
I thought McPhail was a quality footballer also.
------------- YBIG Quiz Champion 2016, 2017 & 2018.
As You Were Three in a row
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Posted By: Green Cockade
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 1:29pm
A formidable line-up indeed but here's one with nobody out of position :
GK: Ron Healey
DF: Eddie Nolan, Joe O'Cearuill, Paul Butler ( capt.), Stephen O'Halloran
MF : Thomas Butler, Synan Braddish, Peter Murphy, Ken de Mange
F : Joe Lapira , Terry Donovan
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Posted By: The O'Shea
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 1:35pm
Given Coleman O'Shea Dunne Harte McGeady Keane Hoolahan Duff Keane Doyle
------------- We're decent enough..
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Posted By: Mr. Snrub
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 2:58pm
Given Finnan Dunne Duffy O'Shea Hoolahan Keane (c) Holland Duff
Quinn Keane
------------- "Here's Robbie Keane...... yeeeessss! That is no more than Ireland deserve!"
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Posted By: BrendanD88
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 9:01pm
[QUOTE=The O'Shea]Given Coleman O'Shea Dunne Harte McGeady Keane Hoolahan Duff Keane Doyle [/QUOTE
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Posted By: The O'Shea
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 9:30pm
BrendanD88 wrote:
[QUOTE=The O'Shea]GivenColeman O'Shea Dunne Harte McGeady Keane Hoolahan Duff Keane Doyle [/QUOTE
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Are you well?
------------- We're decent enough..
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Posted By: Delfor Mullin
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 10:49pm
it can be better with a full squad of 23. Me and my nephew have a full squad of 23
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Posted By: deise316
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 11:28pm
Best Ireland XI of your lifetime, but picked in Garth Crooks style. 343, for no reason whatsoever.
Packie (more assists than Given or Randolph) Dunne Stan Harte Kilbane Royston Duff McClean Quinn Stapleton Keane
------------- Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....
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Posted By: deise316
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 11:56pm
Left foot wrote:
Keith branagan
Alex Bruce Liam Daish Curtis Fleming Darren o'dea
Lee Carsley Paul Green Stephen mcphail Darren Potter
Tommy Coyne Caleb Folan
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Branagan had a solid career, played 2 or 3 years in the EPL with Bolton when they were a half decent team. His time with Ireland was around the end of Bonner's career, coinciding with the emergence of Given. Alan Kelly was also about, as was Dean Kiely. If he was playing today, as a keeper with a bit of top flight experience and plenty of championship experience, he would likely be in every squad.
Curtis Fleming also had a very good career, he was mainly a reserve full back in an era we had plenty top quality full backs, not really much different to where say, Cyrus Christie is now.
Darren O'Dea was a fella who didn't fulfill his early promise, won 20 caps for us, certainly not deserving of any mockery.
Carsley, 40 caps for us when his contemporaries were Keane, Holland, Kinsella, Kilbane and nearly 400 games in the top 2 flights in England. Enough said.
McPhail- highly rated talent blighted by injury.
Tommy Coyne- Ran himself to literal collapse in one of our most famous victories.
I'd accept the rest were lucky to get any caps, or maybe shouldn't have got as many as they did, but it doesn't appear you can tell the difference between those lads and fellas who were actually decent footballers or unlucky with injuries.
------------- Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....
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Posted By: rebelbrowser
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 12:11am
Bonner
Irwin Staunton McGrath Lawrenson
Keane (c) Brady Houghton Duff
Stapleton Keane
Big one for me was Quinn v Stapleton. Frank was my first favourite player so gets the nod. Shay v Packie tight too but Packie did more for us in green and Shays Euro 2012 shenanigans linger in the memory.
Separately, just on the Denis Irwin discussion, it really is crazy in hindsight that having played at every level for Ireland, including B , he didn't make his full debut til he was 24. By June 1990 he was 10 times the right full back that Chris Morris was and had done enough to get a move to Man United. Crazy he wasnt at Italia 90, let alone even capped by then.
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Posted By: Drumcondra 69er
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 8:42am
rebelbrowser wrote:
Bonner
Irwin Staunton McGrath Lawrenson
Keane (c) Brady Houghton Duff
Stapleton Keane
Big one for me was Quinn v Stapleton. Frank was my first favourite player so gets the nod. Shay v Packie tight too but Packie did more for us in green and Shays Euro 2012 shenanigans linger in the memory.
Separately, just on the Denis Irwin discussion, it really is crazy in hindsight that having played at every level for Ireland, including B , he didn't make his full debut til he was 24. By June 1990 he was 10 times the right full back that Chris Morris was and had done enough to get a move to Man United. Crazy he wasnt at Italia 90, let alone even capped by then. |
It's not crazy at all. Morris was winning things with Celtic at a time when the Scottish League was very close to the English league in terms of standard due to the European ban (Rangers had more players in the England squad that reached the semis in 1990, for example).
Irwin had come through at Leeds, been let go to Oldham for a song and had to rebuild his career there. He had an excellent season in 89/90 resulting in his move to Man U but there was no clamour for him to be selected ahead of our defence of Morris, McGrath, McCarthy, Moran, O'Leary, Staunton or even Hughton who wouldn't play.
It's easy to look at it with hindsight but the general concensus was that his time would come after the tournament and that was what transpired.
------------- Blog: http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI Twitter: @afalsefirstxi Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/afalsefirstxi/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI
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Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 10:25am
Stapleton another class act who the younger crew have missed. What a goal he got away to Bulgaria in a game we lost but won the war. A forgotten great irish goal, along with his goal away to Belgium. McGrath got some great goals in that campaign too.
------------- AKA pedantic kunt
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Posted By: rebelbrowser
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 10:59am
Drumcondra 69er wrote:
rebelbrowser wrote:
Separately, just on the Denis Irwin discussion, it really is crazy in hindsight that having played at every level for Ireland, including B , he didn't make his full debut til he was 24. By June 1990 he was 10 times the right full back that Chris Morris was and had done enough to get a move to Man United. Crazy he wasnt at Italia 90, let alone even capped by then. |
It's not crazy at all. Morris was winning things with Celtic at a time when the Scottish League was very close to the English league in terms of standard due to the European ban (Rangers had more players in the England squad that reached the semis in 1990, for example).
Irwin had come through at Leeds, been let go to Oldham for a song and had to rebuild his career there. He had an excellent season in 89/90 resulting in his move to Man U but there was no clamour for him to be selected ahead of our defence of Morris, McGrath, McCarthy, Moran, O'Leary, Staunton or even Hughton who wouldn't play.
It's easy to look at it with hindsight but the general concensus was that his time would come after the tournament and that was what transpired. |
There is some hindsight in this I admit but not as much as you say. Im typing this from memory so apologies if I have the facts wrong, but...Irwin was playing incredible stuff in early 1990 (hence getting Fergie's attention). Oldham got to the League Cup Final, the FA Cup semi (an epic which they lost after a replay to United) and got promoted. At a time when there was f all football on telly, Oldham were everywhere. in fact, because they played a lot of their matches on a Friday night, you would often see highlights of them, with Irwin standing out, in "The Saint & Greavsie" on Saturday mornings (I'm showing my age!).
Irwins form was such that he, and Milligan referred to above, were picked from Oldham to play in the famous Ireland B v England B match at Turner's Cross in ca April 1990 - a match set up specifically to look at "late bolters" for the plane to Italy. As you probably know Ireland won 4-1 against a fantastic (on paper anyway) English team and certainly Niall Quinn's Ireland career got accelerated that day (btw is there a thread on that match somewhere? If not there should be - I think it was arguably the most enjoyable game I was ever at, Tony Adams is still scarred by his treatment from the Shed that day!). From recollection Irwin had a very good game and set up a goal. As stated he had a fantastic Cup Semi then in two really highly watched games too. Certainly down here we had great hopes by April 1990 that Irwin would sneak onto the plane.
Meanwhile everyone knew Chris Morris was our poorest player by then and I stick to my point, that by early 1990, you could make a very strong case for capping Irwin in some pre tournament full matches (had we any mind?) and taking him to Italy. Forgetting even defending, Chris Morris' crossing v Denis Irwins crossing as at 1990? No contest. Morris was awful in something key to the Charlton way of playing.
Cant remember if we brought a sub right back? You name 7 backs above so perhaps not? Logic might have been that McGrath could play right back or one of the left backs could switch over, but not sure how well either of those would have worked out if Morris got injured.
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Posted By: Drumcondra 69er
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 1:08pm
rebelbrowser wrote:
Drumcondra 69er wrote:
rebelbrowser wrote:
Separately, just on the Denis Irwin discussion, it really is crazy in hindsight that having played at every level for Ireland, including B , he didn't make his full debut til he was 24. By June 1990 he was 10 times the right full back that Chris Morris was and had done enough to get a move to Man United. Crazy he wasnt at Italia 90, let alone even capped by then. |
It's not crazy at all. Morris was winning things with Celtic at a time when the Scottish League was very close to the English league in terms of standard due to the European ban (Rangers had more players in the England squad that reached the semis in 1990, for example).
Irwin had come through at Leeds, been let go to Oldham for a song and had to rebuild his career there. He had an excellent season in 89/90 resulting in his move to Man U but there was no clamour for him to be selected ahead of our defence of Morris, McGrath, McCarthy, Moran, O'Leary, Staunton or even Hughton who wouldn't play.
It's easy to look at it with hindsight but the general concensus was that his time would come after the tournament and that was what transpired. |
There is some hindsight in this I admit but not as much as you say. Im typing this from memory so apologies if I have the facts wrong, but...Irwin was playing incredible stuff in early 1990 (hence getting Fergie's attention). Oldham got to the League Cup Final, the FA Cup semi (an epic which they lost after a replay to United) and got promoted. At a time when there was f all football on telly, Oldham were everywhere. in fact, because they played a lot of their matches on a Friday night, you would often see highlights of them, with Irwin standing out, in "The Saint & Greavsie" on Saturday mornings (I'm showing my age!).
Irwins form was such that he, and Milligan referred to above, were picked from Oldham to play in the famous Ireland B v England B match at Turner's Cross in ca April 1990 - a match set up specifically to look at "late bolters" for the plane to Italy. As you probably know Ireland won 4-1 against a fantastic (on paper anyway) English team and certainly Niall Quinn's Ireland career got accelerated that day (btw is there a thread on that match somewhere? If not there should be - I think it was arguably the most enjoyable game I was ever at, Tony Adams is still scarred by his treatment from the Shed that day!). From recollection Irwin had a very good game and set up a goal. As stated he had a fantastic Cup Semi then in two really highly watched games too. Certainly down here we had great hopes by April 1990 that Irwin would sneak onto the plane.
Meanwhile everyone knew Chris Morris was our poorest player by then and I stick to my point, that by early 1990, you could make a very strong case for capping Irwin in some pre tournament full matches (had we any mind?) and taking him to Italy. Forgetting even defending, Chris Morris' crossing v Denis Irwins crossing as at 1990? No contest. Morris was awful in something key to the Charlton way of playing.
Cant remember if we brought a sub right back? You name 7 backs above so perhaps not? Logic might have been that McGrath could play right back or one of the left backs could switch over, but not sure how well either of those would have worked out if Morris got injured. |
You're not wrong with any of that generally. I'd argue that Quinn and Kelly were already well established squad members given they had been in the Euro 88 squad and Quinn had seen game time in that tournament. I think they were put in just to get a run as Jack wanted to look at Slaven up front in the senior friendly that week. Interestingly, Jim Beglin had just been promoted with Leeds and was picked as the other full back in the B game for his last appearance in green iirc.
But regarding Irwin, Morris had been first choice through Euro 88 and all the Italia 90 qualifiers and was nailed on for the squad. So for Irwin to get in it would have been ahead of one of the other defenders. I think that list of 7 is the lot. Realistically, it's only Chris Hughton that could have made way who had started to fade from the first team picture at Spurs and had suffered from injury. But given he'd played in the top flight for years before then and his service in green, I don't think there was any appetite for him to be replaced by someone who had never played in the top flight at that stage. Probably a bit of sentimentality involved. Irwin was unfortunate that we were very strong at the back rather than say midfield where Gary Waddock made the initial squad before McLoughlin, who also played in that B game I think, forced him out due to doubts over Houghton's fitness. Or up front where Slaven got picked. I just don't think there was any chance that Jack was going to change the team that had qualified due to an admittedly superb run of form from that January nor was there any expectation.
Funny enough, I was at all the games back then and regularly bemoaned Morris' crossing. A few years later, I was having a pint in Quinn's with a mate and they were playing the video of the Italia 90 qualifiers. Who was pumping in quality ball after quality ball? Chris fcuking Morris! I know it was highlights but we had a good laugh over it!
------------- Blog: http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI Twitter: @afalsefirstxi Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/afalsefirstxi/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI
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Posted By: rebelbrowser
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 1:13pm
Posted By: Drumcondra 69er
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 1:25pm
rebelbrowser wrote:
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Actually found the teams and a video of that B game if anyone's intersted. Was a very strong England side.
Ireland B: Gary Kelly, Denis Irwin (Terry Phelan), Jim Beglin, Derek Brazil, Pat Scully, Alan McLoughlin (Kenneth de Mange), Brian Mooney, Mike Milligan (Gary Waddock), Niall Quinn, David Kelly (Owen Coyle), Mark Kelly
England B: Dave Beasant (David Seaman), Lee Dixon (Ian Snodin), Nigel Winterburn, Carlton Palmer, Andy Linighan, Tony Adams, Matthew Le Tissier (Tony Daley), David Batty, Paul Williams (Nigel Clough), Dalian Atkinson, Andy Sinton, Paul Lake
------------- Blog: http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI Twitter: @afalsefirstxi Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/afalsefirstxi/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI
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Posted By: Left foot
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 2:29pm
deise316 wrote:
Left foot wrote:
Keith branagan
Alex Bruce Liam Daish Curtis Fleming Darren o'dea
Lee Carsley Paul Green Stephen mcphail Darren Potter
Tommy Coyne Caleb Folan
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Branagan had a solid career, played 2 or 3 years in the EPL with Bolton when they were a half decent team. His time with Ireland was around the end of Bonner's career, coinciding with the emergence of Given. Alan Kelly was also about, as was Dean Kiely. If he was playing today, as a keeper with a bit of top flight experience and plenty of championship experience, he would likely be in every squad.
Curtis Fleming also had a very good career, he was mainly a reserve full back in an era we had plenty top quality full backs, not really much different to where say, Cyrus Christie is now.
Darren O'Dea was a fella who didn't fulfill his early promise, won 20 caps for us, certainly not deserving of any mockery.
Carsley, 40 caps for us when his contemporaries were Keane, Holland, Kinsella, Kilbane and nearly 400 games in the top 2 flights in England. Enough said.
McPhail- highly rated talent blighted by injury.
Tommy Coyne- Ran himself to literal collapse in one of our most famous victories.
I'd accept the rest were lucky to get any caps, or maybe shouldn't have got as many as they did, but it doesn't appear you can tell the difference between those lads and fellas who were actually decent footballers or unlucky with injuries.
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Just a bit of fun deise, a list knocked out in 5 mins. It wasnt mean't to be subject to scrutiny.i get the feeling you probably knew that though.
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Posted By: DeclanDaly
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 2:45pm
We had an embarrassment of riches at full back for about a decade. Saw a game recently where we had Irwin, Phelan and Staunton on the pitch. Essentially three top left backs. Under Trap and O’Neill we didn’t have one (despite some brave efforts from Kilbane)
------------- You asked if I'd be anyone from history, fact or fiction, dead or alive: I said "I'd be Tony Cascarino, circa 1995"
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Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 2:52pm
DeclanDaly wrote:
We had an embarrassment of riches at full back for about a decade. Saw a game recently where we had Irwin, Phelan and Staunton on the pitch. Essentially three top left backs. Under Trap and O’Neill we didn’t have one (despite some brave efforts from Kilbane) |
Phelan was not a top left back. He was a grand premier league player. If he was around now he would be one of our better players but not a top player and shouldn't be compared to Irwin or even staunton.
Irwin was class and world class at that Staunton was a very good player who won leagues at liverpool but wasnt world class
------------- AKA pedantic kunt
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Posted By: DeclanDaly
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 2:57pm
Baldrick wrote:
DeclanDaly wrote:
We had an embarrassment of riches at full back for about a decade. Saw a game recently where we had Irwin, Phelan and Staunton on the pitch. Essentially three top left backs. Under Trap and O’Neill we didn’t have one (despite some brave efforts from Kilbane) |
Phelan was not a top left back. He was a grand premier league player. If he was around now he would be one of our better players but not a top player and shouldn't be compared to Irwin or even staunton.
Irwin was class and world class at that Staunton was a very good player who won leagues at liverpool but wasnt world class |
Yeah, I’d agree with you. I suppose “top flight” is what I was thinking. He would certainly have been handy 15 years later. There was once a story about him going to Barcelona I think. He was f**king fast in fairness
------------- You asked if I'd be anyone from history, fact or fiction, dead or alive: I said "I'd be Tony Cascarino, circa 1995"
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Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 3:08pm
So was shergar but not fast enough
------------- AKA pedantic kunt
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Posted By: Drumcondra 69er
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 3:10pm
Baldrick wrote:
DeclanDaly wrote:
We had an embarrassment of riches at full back for about a decade. Saw a game recently where we had Irwin, Phelan and Staunton on the pitch. Essentially three top left backs. Under Trap and O’Neill we didn’t have one (despite some brave efforts from Kilbane) |
Phelan was not a top left back. He was a grand premier league player. If he was around now he would be one of our better players but not a top player and shouldn't be compared to Irwin or even staunton.
Irwin was class and world class at that Staunton was a very good player who won leagues at liverpool but wasnt world class |
Disagree. Phelan was a top end left back in the top flight at his peak. FA Cup winner and when City bought him from Wimbledon it equalled the record fee for a defender. Wouldn't compare him with Irwin but don't think you're giving him enough credit. He was very solid at the back, lightning fast and very good going forward.
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Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 3:14pm
I dont think he was in the top 3 in his position in the premier league at the time never mind the world. So I think that disqualifies him from being a top class player.
He was above average in the Premier league as in he was better than most left fulls and certainly in the top 10 but not top 3.
Transfer few as you know has a number of contributing factors and ability and performance are only one of many.
Good servant for ireland and Wimbledon and city and chelsea.
------------- AKA pedantic kunt
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Posted By: Conan
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 3:17pm
GK: Given LB: Staunton CB: McGrath CB:Moran RB: Irwin MF:L Brady MF:Sheedy MF:Roy Keane MF:R Whelan FW:Stapleton FW:Robbie Keane
Wasn't around to remember Johnny Giles on the pitch but he seems to have been the only player from the pre Charlton era that would have come in to contention anyway as until the mid eighties we were no better at football than we are now.
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Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 3:31pm
Conan wrote:
GK: GivenLB: Staunton CB: McGrath CB:Moran RB: Irwin MF:L Brady MF:Sheedy MF:Roy Keane MF:R Whelan FW:Stapleton FW:Robbie Keane
Wasn't around to remember Johnny Giles on the pitch but he seems to have been the only player from the pre Charlton era that would have come in to contention anyway as until the mid eighties we were no better at football than we are now.
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Have chatted to many who say that Jackie Carey is our greatest player. Captained Utd and managed ireland too. Charlie hurley was meant to be a fantastic player also and Noel Cantell was a utd captain too to mention LIam Whelan one of the Busby Babes. .
------------- AKA pedantic kunt
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Posted By: Drumcondra 69er
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 3:37pm
Baldrick wrote:
I dont think he was in the top 3 in his position in the premier league at the time never mind the world. So I think that disqualifies him from being a top class player.
He was above average in the Premier league as in he was better than most left fulls and certainly in the top 10 but not top 3.
Transfer few as you know has a number of contributing factors and ability and performance are only one of many.
Good servant for ireland and Wimbledon and city and chelsea. |
I'm talking in old Division 1 / early PL terms. Is top 3 your metric? Who was ahead of him around that time at the clubs that were in the mix for league titles first five years of the 90s?
Arsenal - Winterburn - Yes Liverpool - Burrows and Bjornebye - No Leeds - Dorigo - Maybe but probably not Man U - Irwin - Yes Blackburn - Le Saux - Yes Newcastle - Beresford - No Villa - Staunton - Yes
Only those four above him off the top of my head and they were all excellent players. Am I missing anyone? Yes, I am bored!
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Posted By: Het-field
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 3:40pm
Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 3:49pm
Stuart Pearse was a better left back in late 80s to mid 90s than Phelan.
I would also say Dorigo was better also.
------------- AKA pedantic kunt
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Posted By: rebelbrowser
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 3:54pm
Drumcondra 69er wrote:
rebelbrowser wrote:
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Actually found the teams and a video of that B game if anyone's intersted. Was a very strong England side.
Ireland B: Gary Kelly, Denis Irwin (Terry Phelan), Jim Beglin, Derek Brazil, Pat Scully, Alan McLoughlin (Kenneth de Mange), Brian Mooney, Mike Milligan (Gary Waddock), Niall Quinn, David Kelly (Owen Coyle), Mark Kelly
England B: Dave Beasant (David Seaman), Lee Dixon (Ian Snodin), Nigel Winterburn, Carlton Palmer, Andy Linighan, Tony Adams, Matthew Le Tissier (Tony Daley), David Batty, Paul Williams (Nigel Clough), Dalian Atkinson, Andy Sinton, Paul Lake
Just watched that, thanks a million for the link. It rarely happens but that still is as good as I remember it was a 13 year old. A great day.
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Posted By: SUPERWESLEYHOOLAHAN
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 4:00pm
Given-Class, should have retired few years before he did but brilliant in his prime
Coleman - Good few years back, but would have Doherty over him now anyday
Dunne -Beast
O'Shea - Versatile and solid for Ireland
Staunton - Leader and good full back
Walters - Scorer of important goals and very hard working player, bit like Mcclean but has ability
Roy Keane - Leader
A. Reid - Dominated Germans in Landsdowne and was always good in the green shirt, ability wise up there with our best ever, robbed of an international career
Duff - Top class winger
Hoolahan - Unbelievable talent, some outstanding moments in green, excellent against the Germans, made Mcclean goal in Vienna, made Brady goal in Lille, changed the game at home to Poland etc. In general had the balls to look for the ball and pick a pass when others didn't, shame he didn't have a longer international career
Keane - Brilliant finisher and under appreciated work rate
Given Coleman O'Shea Dunne Stan Walters Keane Reid Duff Hoolahan Keane
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Posted By: Drumcondra 69er
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 4:06pm
Baldrick wrote:
Stuart Pearse was a better left back in late 80s to mid 90s than Phelan.
I would also say Dorigo was better also. |
Pearce is fair. Not sure on Dorigo and I watched a lot of him.
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