Print Page | Close Window

Best Ireland XI of Your Life Time

Printed From: You Boys in Green
Category: International
Forum Name: Republic Of Ireland
Forum Description: All ROI International Team forums
URL: https://forum.ybig.ie/forum_posts.asp?TID=57408
Printed Date: 19 Mar 2024 at 2:26am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.00 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Best Ireland XI of Your Life Time
Posted By: zizu Kilbane
Subject: Best Ireland XI of Your Life Time
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 9:32am
I know there have been a load of these threads down through the years but seeing as there is almost nothing else to do at the moment, thought I'd have a stab at this. You had to have seen the players in the flesh. Beat Ireland XI since I started going to games in 1996:

GK - Shay Given 

RB - Steve Finnan (most difficult position to pick, we've had serious right backs over the past 30 years, Carr, Coleman, Gary Kelly, Doherty. Finnan shade it for me, champions league winner etc)

CB - Richard Dunne 

CB - John O'Shea 

LB - Denis Iriwn (Ireland's greates ever full back)

RW - Damien Duff (mostly played on the left or upfront for us but his best game against Spain in WC 2002, he tormented them playing in the right)

CM - Roy Keane (Captain)

CM - Wes Houlihan 

LW - Kevin Kilbane (THE GOAT)

CF - Johnny Walters 

ST - Robbie Keane





-------------
"Sometimes, sh*t happens, someone's gotta deal with it, and who ya gonna call?"



Replies:
Posted By: McG
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 9:41am
Irwin should have had 100 caps.

-------------
YBIG Table Quiz winner 2016 & 2017
AS YOU WERE McGx



Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 10:01am
I am going to base mine on service/performances for Ieland rather than club career.  

Given 

Hughton 

McGrath 

Moran 

Irwin 

Whelan 

Keane 

Brady 

Houghton 

Keane

Stapleton 


Tough to leave out Duff, Dunne, O'Shea,  Lawrenson,Townsend sheedy, Aldridge, Quinn and loads more. 

With the exception of Given all of these played for top clubs competing for cups and leagues etc.    





-------------
AKA pedantic kunt


Posted By: Roberto Baggio
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 10:10am
Given
 
Coleman
Dunne
McGrath
Irwin
 
Houghton
Ronnie Whelan
Keane
Duff
 
Keane
Quinn


Posted By: Shedite
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 10:21am
Given
O'Shea Dunne McGrath Irwin
Duff Keane Houghton Kilbane
Keane Quinn


Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 10:46am
Given- Bonner was always a favourite and I would rather have in, but Given was class at his best. Was probably overrated by many within the Irish support, myself include, at times, who claimed he was world-class, he was short of that, but he was excellent. 


Finnan- A position we with the most choice. In my time there has been a few contenders, including dropping Irwin in here to accommodate Stan or Phelan on the left, but Finnan was an excellent right-back who went about his business quietly and assuredly. 

McGrath-  No debate. One of the few genuinely world-class players to play for us. He might have been better without the demons, but it wouldn't have been as interesting. 

Dunne- Just ahead of O'Leary as I missed out on his best days and so did Ireland, to a degree.  Settled down to become a top class player after an inconsistent start to his career. A 100% man and old school defender. 

Irwin- Consistent defender and a lovely footballer. 

Sheedy- I only really caught the end of him, but what a left foot! The standout in an excellent Everton team.

Keane- Leaving the controversy aside, what a player! Everyone goes on about his determination and leadership on the field,  but he was technically brilliant too. Never gave the wrong pass.

Townsend- A vital part of the Charlton game plan. As annoying as he became as a pundit, he seemed to get what the fans wanted from a player and tried his best to deliver it. 

Houghton- I loved his scampering style, he was a fine footballer who will always be fondly remembered for those goals and, less fondly, for that miss!

Quinn- What a touch, for a big man. Underrated as a footballer by many who remember him as just a target man. His control was excellent though and, despite all the 'Mother Teresa' jibes, seems a genuinely decent fella.

Keane- May not be the best player to play for Ireland,  but is undoubtedly the best player for Ireland. An unbelievable contribution. 



-------------
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.


Posted By: Drumcondra 69er
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 10:46am
Originally posted by McG McG wrote:

Irwin should have had 100 caps.

Where would you get the extra 44? 100 is a stretch given he was playing in the old Division 2 till he was 24 and we were well stacked with full backs on either side when he was playing. Beglin, Hughton, Morris, Langan, Anderson, Staunton at the start of his career and Kelly, Carr, Finnan, Kenna, Harte all playing top end Premier League at the other end. Kelly and Carr had two appearances on the PFA team of the year which matches Irwin's haul and Harte and Finnan made it once.

I think Irwin was our best full back but it's understandable why he didn't make the century.  Am sure there were a few matches Fergie pulled him out of as well. 


-------------
Blog: http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI
Twitter: @afalsefirstxi
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/afalsefirstxi/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI


Posted By: Roberto Baggio
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 10:53am
In hindsight i'll change Coleman and replace him with Steve Finnan in my team.
Finnan was excellent and very consistent.
Coleman's choice for me initially was really based on his club form, he has never replicated that for Ireland for a consistent run of games.
 
Can't have John O'Shea anywhere near the team either. Seems a great lad and had some club career but never really rated him as a player


Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 10:58am
O'Shea got better as he got older. He was all over the place as a young fella.

-------------
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.


Posted By: Roberto Baggio
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 10:59am
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

O'Shea got better as he got older. He was all over the place as a young fella.
 
Agree


Posted By: gspain
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 11:20am

Only those I've seen in green

Given
Irwin
Staunton
McGrath
Lawrenson
Roy Keane
Brady 
Giles
Duff
Robbie Keane
Stapleton

No Whelan Galvin, Moran , O'Leary , Heighway , Coleman , O'Shea , Bonner, Beglin (had he played more definitely) , Quinn, Houghton , Dunne and many more.  


Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 11:25am
I think finnan is very lucky to be in peoples teams.  A sold quiet full back who didnt play that much for Ireland and often lost put to carr or kelly or even p shea at times.  I cant think of many stand out performances.  Had an excellent club career.  But really Kelly or Staunton deserve to be ahead of him  I have gone for hughton during my time.  

Also who picked kilbane over duff whelan and sheedy :) in their midfield (they had houghton in it( 


-------------
AKA pedantic kunt


Posted By: McG
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Originally posted by McG McG wrote:

Irwin should have had 100 caps.

Where would you get the extra 44? 100 is a stretch given he was playing in the old Division 2 till he was 24 and we were well stacked with full backs on either side when he was playing. Beglin, Hughton, Morris, Langan, Anderson, Staunton at the start of his career and Kelly, Carr, Finnan, Kenna, Harte all playing top end Premier League at the other end. Kelly and Carr had two appearances on the PFA team of the year which matches Irwin's haul and Harte and Finnan made it once.

I think Irwin was our best full back but it's understandable why he didn't make the century.  Am sure there were a few matches Fergie pulled him out of as well. 

I am not saying he should have had them ahead of others, i am just saying his ability deserved it.

Ahead of Kenna and Phelan for me for what it's worth. 


-------------
YBIG Table Quiz winner 2016 & 2017
AS YOU WERE McGx



Posted By: Drumcondra 69er
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by McG McG wrote:

Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Originally posted by McG McG wrote:

Irwin should have had 100 caps.

Where would you get the extra 44? 100 is a stretch given he was playing in the old Division 2 till he was 24 and we were well stacked with full backs on either side when he was playing. Beglin, Hughton, Morris, Langan, Anderson, Staunton at the start of his career and Kelly, Carr, Finnan, Kenna, Harte all playing top end Premier League at the other end. Kelly and Carr had two appearances on the PFA team of the year which matches Irwin's haul and Harte and Finnan made it once.

I think Irwin was our best full back but it's understandable why he didn't make the century.  Am sure there were a few matches Fergie pulled him out of as well. 

I am not saying he should have had them ahead of others, i am just saying his ability deserved it.

Ahead of Kenna and Phelan for me for what it's worth. 

Meant to have Phelan in that list actually. We were absolutely overloaded with quality full backs in that era. 


-------------
Blog: http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI
Twitter: @afalsefirstxi
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/afalsefirstxi/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI


Posted By: Left foot
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 12:22pm
Old terry phelan!!! Good player with.pace to burn.


Posted By: Het-field
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 12:26pm
100 caps is hard to achieve. And I think the uniting factor of all our “Club 100” players is that they made their debut between the age of 17-20 and all (apart from Kilbane) attended more than one major tournament. That also applied to Quinn and McGeady (and theoretically McGeady might make it).


Posted By: Roberto Baggio
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Old terry phelan!!! Good player with.pace to burn.
Always remember his goal against Spurs in the FA Cup at Maine Road. Was a consolation goal late on to make it 4-1 or 4-2 I think.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBBjWbj0MQU" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBBjWbj0MQU
 
 


Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 12:51pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Old terry phelan!!! Good player with.pace to burn.
Always remember his goal against Spurs in the FA Cup at Maine Road. Was a consolation goal late on to make it 4-1 or 4-2 I think.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBBjWbj0MQU" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBBjWbj0MQU
 
 
Without watching it, is that where there was a massive pitch invasion to have it abandoned? He also has a more Mancunian accent than anybody else. It sounds like somebody taking the piss 


-------------
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.


Posted By: Roberto Baggio
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 1:00pm
Yeah, pitch invasion after that goal
 
 


Posted By: Deco79
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 1:47pm
Given
Irwin McGrath Dunne Staunton

Keane
Houghton Duff
Townsend

Keane Quinn


Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 1:56pm
what's with people leaving out Whelan.  I know you could possibly put Brady Keane and Giles ahead of him like Gspain did.  Or if you didnt see him play like some have. But anyone who has Houghton in has to have whelan in too as they were playing at similar times.  Whelan played right up to 95 but his best work was done in the 80s.  Brilliant footballer who won european cups and leagues and fa cups and was brilliant for ireland at euro 88 and in the qualifiers for Italia 90

-------------
AKA pedantic kunt


Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 1:57pm
I see Given at left-back and no keeper!

-------------
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.


Posted By: Left foot
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 2:00pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I see Given at left-back and no keeper!

Duff seems to be subbing himself off


Posted By: lassassinblanc
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 2:20pm
Tough one

GK: Shay Given- Bonner is always fondly remembered for the Penalty shootout but Shay was a great servant for us and saved us many times, also a soft spot for him for doing the same for Newcastle for years.

Rb: Denis Irwin- I know I'm playing him out of position but he was well capable of doing so, one our most under rated players of the last 30 years he's one of those players every single player who played with him has him straight into their team. How as people say he didn't win 100 + caps is beyond me.

cb: Paul McGrath :Another who i don't think great the credit he deserves more outside of Ireland if it wasn't for his addictions would been a key player in world football.

cb: Richard Dunne- early days he was shocking due to similar issues McGrath has (another point to show how brilliant McGrath was that he was still brilliant during those days). But back to Dunne from around 2006 onwards he just became a rock from club and country.

Lb: Ian Harte: some probably won't agree with him being on this list but I think he was one of better players during Mick's first reign, wand of a left foot, the penalty miss against Spain probably soured his contribution during that period.

RW: Damien Duff- again out of position as he'd be predominantly a left winger but I had to have him in the team and couldn't leave out the player I have at left wing. Again maybe a player who could have done more for us but was a great servant for us.

CM: Roy Keane: no explanation needed

CM: Glen Whelan: just to piss people off (I actually agree with PM's inclusion of Andy Townsend a key player during our most successful era under Charlton)

LW: Kevin Sheedy: one of our most under rated players, another player which most players who have played with him have him in their teams.

CF: Niall Quinn- another under rated player always gave 110% for us and great servant, Would we have gone further in 94 if he was part of the squad???

CF: Robbie Keane: Oh how we have missed Robbie, our greatest ever striker no question


Posted By: horsebox
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 2:26pm
Probably Harte's only peno's miss for Ireland?

-------------
It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me,
He wouldn't set me free,
So he kept me soul for ransom.
na na na na na na na na na
na na na na na na na na.
I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to


Posted By: lassassinblanc
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 2:30pm
Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Probably Harte's only peno's miss for Ireland?

Perhaps, anytime we got a free kick within any distance I was confident he'd at least make the keeper work 


Posted By: Drumcondra 69er
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 3:06pm
Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Old terry phelan!!! Good player with.pace to burn.

Bizarre to think that Leeds let both him and Irwon leave for next to nothing.


-------------
Blog: http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI
Twitter: @afalsefirstxi
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/afalsefirstxi/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI


Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 3:07pm
Jesus now Glenn whelan agead of ronnie ffs :)  

Whelan was up there with Keane as a player.  

I dont think people.l realise how good Ronnie was. Liverpool sold sheedy to keep whelan.  He played left wing and then played the holding role for liverpool after Souness left 


-------------
AKA pedantic kunt


Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Jesus now Glenn whelan agead of ronnie ffs :)  

Whelan was up there with Keane as a player.  

I dont think people.l realise how good Ronnie was. Liverpool sold sheedy to keep whelan.  He played left wing and then played the holding role for liverpool after Souness left 
Italia '90 was my first proper tournament, so I am open to correction, I don't think he was as good for Ireland as he was for Liverpool. This being the best Ireland XI of my lifetime Townsend was close to a certainty. 
And that's having watched back a lot of Liverpool in their pomp and seeing how good he was. He was excellent. 


-------------
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.


Posted By: Shedite
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 3:30pm
Baldie I think the problem is we're too young. Ronnie was a bit part player for Ireland past '88. So anyone under 40 probably doesn't remember him at his peak for Ireland


Posted By: Darren
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 3:40pm
Bonner
Irwin
McGrath
Dunne
Staunton
Brady
Whelan
Keane
Duff
Keane 
Aldridge


Posted By: Delfor Mullin
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 3:43pm
my team 

1-Shay Given
2-Paul McGrath
3-Jim Beglin
4-Kevin Moran
5-David O´Leary
6-Roy Keane
7-Robbie Keane
8-Ronnie Whelan
9-Frank Stapleton
10-Liam Brady
11-Damian Duff


Posted By: Conan
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 3:45pm
Staunton was a top players through the 90's, would have got in any international side you'd think. You'd think he'd have got a lot more nominations above if he hadn't been such a clown of a manager.
Sheedy was a cracking player and my favourite when I started following the game. 
Thought about O'Leary alongside McGrath but maybe not looking back at a couple of things!


Posted By: McG
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 3:52pm
Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Baldie I think the problem is we're too young. Ronnie was a bit part player for Ireland past '88. So anyone under 40 probably doesn't remember him at his peak for Ireland

Yeah exactly. He made his debut in 81 and played in some cracking games i.e. 3-2 against the french 

But Jack used him sparingly enough after 88. In fact, i had forgotten that he captained the side to that horrible draw away on the mountain top to liechtenstein in 95. He was done then. 


-------------
YBIG Table Quiz winner 2016 & 2017
AS YOU WERE McGx



Posted By: lassassinblanc
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Jesus now Glenn whelan agead of ronnie ffs :)  

Whelan was up there with Keane as a player.  

I dont think people.l realise how good Ronnie was. Liverpool sold sheedy to keep whelan.  He played left wing and then played the holding role for liverpool after Souness left 
Italia '90 was my first proper tournament, so I am open to correction, I don't think he was as good for Ireland as he was for Liverpool. This being the best Ireland XI of my lifetime Townsend was close to a certainty. 
And that's having watched back a lot of Liverpool in their pomp and seeing how good he was. He was excellent. 

Yep I never really seen the best of Ronnie Whelan myself, as I said I only put in Glen as a fishing rod and appears I've caught my first fish. I'd have Townsend ahead of him all day long in fact Whelan(Glen) wouldn't be in my top 10 centre mids I've seen down the years


Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by McG McG wrote:

Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Baldie I think the problem is we're too young. Ronnie was a bit part player for Ireland past '88. So anyone under 40 probably doesn't remember him at his peak for Ireland

Yeah exactly. He made his debut in 81 and played in some cracking games i.e. 3-2 against the french 

But Jack used him sparingly enough after 88. In fact, i had forgotten that he captained the side to that horrible draw away on the mountain top to liechtenstein in 95. He was done then. 

He was a mainstay for the qualifiers for Italia 90. Class against northern Ireland at home and spain at home.   If you include sheedy and houghton I find it hard how people have whelan left out to be replaced by glen whelan etc.  
If you didnt see ireland to post 90 I can see how Townsend is there.   


-------------
AKA pedantic kunt


Posted By: Croftman
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 4:41pm
Given
Irwin
McGrath
Dunne
Staunton
Duff
Whelan
Keane
Sheedy
Keane
Quinn


-------------
Some people just deserve a slap


Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by Delfor Mullin Delfor Mullin wrote:

my team 

1-Shay Given
2-Paul McGrath
3-Jim Beglin
4-Kevin Moran
5-David O´Leary
6-Roy Keane
7-Robbie Keane
8-Ronnie Whelan
9-Frank Stapleton
10-Liam Brady
11-Damian Duff

Struggling to figure out the formation 


-------------
AKA pedantic kunt


Posted By: DeclanDaly
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 4:59pm
Given
Irwin Dunne McGrath Staunton
Houghton Keane R. Whelan Sheedy
Duff Keane


-------------
You asked if I'd be anyone from history, fact or fiction, dead or alive:
I said "I'd be Tony Cascarino, circa 1995"


Posted By: Delfor Mullin
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Delfor Mullin Delfor Mullin wrote:

my team 

1-Shay Given
2-Paul McGrath
3-Jim Beglin
4-Kevin Moran
5-David O´Leary
6-Roy Keane
7-Robbie Keane
8-Ronnie Whelan
9-Frank Stapleton
10-Liam Brady
11-Damian Duff

Struggling to figure out the formation 

anyone from McGrath/Moran/O`Leary as fullback on the right.  Main attack throughout Jim Beglin, was the best attacking left back in Europe for over two years, even a Calcio move was on the  table at  the time, until he was injured.


Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 5:23pm
It should be 'Ro.' Keane to avoid confusion. 

-------------
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.


Posted By: t_rAndy
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 5:47pm
Originally posted by Deco79 Deco79 wrote:

Given
Irwin McGrath Dunne Staunton

Keane
Houghton Duff
Townsend

Keane Quinn

Starting watching Ireland about 93. This would be it for me


Posted By: Double Maxim
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 6:11pm
Originally posted by Croftman Croftman wrote:

Given
Irwin
McGrath
Dunne
Staunton
Duff
Whelan
Keane
Sheedy
Keane
Quinn
 

Like that line though find it difficult not to have Liam Brady in the team.


-------------
Double Maxim without doubt the greatest drink in the world


Posted By: Shedite
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 6:31pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by McG McG wrote:

Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Baldie I think the problem is we're too young. Ronnie was a bit part player for Ireland past '88. So anyone under 40 probably doesn't remember him at his peak for Ireland

Yeah exactly. He made his debut in 81 and played in some cracking games i.e. 3-2 against the french 

But Jack used him sparingly enough after 88. In fact, i had forgotten that he captained the side to that horrible draw away on the mountain top to liechtenstein in 95. He was done then. 

He was a mainstay for the qualifiers for Italia 90. Class against northern Ireland at home and spain at home.   If you include sheedy and houghton I find it hard how people have whelan left out to be replaced by glen whelan etc.  
If you didnt see ireland to post 90 I can see how Townsend is there.   
Yeah I was 7 at Italia 90 so don't really remember anything before that.


Posted By: Drumcondra 69er
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2020 at 7:16pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by McG McG wrote:

Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Baldie I think the problem is we're too young. Ronnie was a bit part player for Ireland past '88. So anyone under 40 probably doesn't remember him at his peak for Ireland

Yeah exactly. He made his debut in 81 and played in some cracking games i.e. 3-2 against the french 

But Jack used him sparingly enough after 88. In fact, i had forgotten that he captained the side to that horrible draw away on the mountain top to liechtenstein in 95. He was done then. 

He was a mainstay for the qualifiers for Italia 90. Class against northern Ireland at home and spain at home.   If you include sheedy and houghton I find it hard how people have whelan left out to be replaced by glen whelan etc.  
If you didnt see ireland to post 90 I can see how Townsend is there.   

Was there a serious suggestion to have Glen Whelan in instead? Saw him mentioned once as a joke with Townsend actually being the selection.

Ronnie gpt injured at the tail end of the 89/90 season and was very injury prone for Ireland during and post Italia '90. Wasn't fit in 94 eiither but still made the squad and got a run against Norway.

He was an exceptional player at his peak and is underrated. Suffered due to the fact that he wasn't fit for either World Cup, would be rated higher had he been fit and picked. His career after 1990 wasa very stop/start till he retired.


-------------
Blog: http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI
Twitter: @afalsefirstxi
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/afalsefirstxi/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI


Posted By: deise316
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2020 at 12:37am
Given
Irwin
McGrath
Dunne
Stan
Houghton
Royston
R.Whelan
Sheedy
Quinn
Rob Keane


Just on Irwin, I don't have the exact stats on how many times he played LB for Ireland, but he mostly played on the right. He was a right footed right back at Leeds & Oldham, who Ferguson coverted to LB at Man U. He did play for us at LB a few times, like when Sheedy was injured and Staunton was pushed to LW, but I'd say less than 10 of his caps were playing left back. 

I really only saw the end of Mark Lawrenson's and Liam Brady's careers, both great players and all time Ireland XI candidates who would be in that team (ahead of Dunne & Ronnie) if my memory was better !

Other candidates, maybe an odd one, but Kenny Cunningham rarely made an error playing for us, yet would rarely feature in any 'greatest Irish CB's' conversation. I do think people would have viewed that differently had he kept his fitness before 2002 and been able to stay 1st choice, as he was pre injury, for the 2002 WC ahead of one of Breen or Stan (who is in my team at LB, but was never a convincing CB in my view)

Moran is an obvious one, tough as nails defender who rarely had a bad game, put his head anywhere. O'Shea, nah. He really only played well for us after Trap took over and eventually moved him to CB when St Ledger had the first of his many injuries in his 2nd campaign. He was rock solid after that, but his early years, and probably about 50/60 caps, he nearly attracted as much criticism as Whelan & Hendrick do these days, some of it justified. 











-------------
Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....


Posted By: RKeane
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2020 at 5:32am
First game I can remember watching was Saudi Arabia 2002 & first game I was at was the friendly against Australia in 2003. So will go from 02 - Present

My team would be..


Given

Coleman Dunne O’Shea Kilbane

Keane McCarthy

Wes

Duff Keane Long


Serious lack of options in midfield as nobody after Roy has stood out in the centre for us so went with who is the best player on form out of Whelan, Andrews & McCarthy. 

Long not the most naturally gifted but the effect his workrate over the past decade has had on the team cannot be underestimated and of course that goal v Germany. 

Randolph has never put foot wrong for us either, deserves a shout.


-------------
YESSSS! IT'S THERE


Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2020 at 7:02am
Originally posted by deise316 deise316 wrote:

Given
Irwin
McGrath
Dunne
Stan
Houghton
Royston
R.Whelan
Sheedy
Quinn
Rob Keane


Just on Irwin, I don't have the exact stats on how many times he played LB for Ireland, but he mostly played on the right. He was a right footed right back at Leeds & Oldham, who Ferguson coverted to LB at Man U. He did play for us at LB a few times, like when Sheedy was injured and Staunton was pushed to LW, but I'd say less than 10 of his caps were playing left back. 

I really only saw the end of Mark Lawrenson's and Liam Brady's careers, both great players and all time Ireland XI candidates who would be in that team (ahead of Dunne & Ronnie) if my memory was better !

Other candidates, maybe an odd one, but Kenny Cunningham rarely made an error playing for us, yet would rarely feature in any 'greatest Irish CB's' conversation. I do think people would have viewed that differently had he kept his fitness before 2002 and been able to stay 1st choice, as he was pre injury, for the 2002 WC ahead of one of Breen or Stan (who is in my team at LB, but was never a convincing CB in my view)

Moran is an obvious one, tough as nails defender who rarely had a bad game, put his head anywhere. O'Shea, nah. He really only played well for us after Trap took over and eventually moved him to CB when St Ledger had the first of his many injuries in his 2nd campaign. He was rock solid after that, but his early years, and probably about 50/60 caps, he nearly attracted as much criticism as Whelan & Hendrick do these days, some of it justified. 









Fair points,I just always feel he was slightly better on the left. 
The problem with Kenny Cunningham is if you play him you have to play his eyebrows. 


-------------
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.


Posted By: lassassinblanc
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2020 at 8:52am
Why was it that Irwin has so few caps?

Was it just our lack of games during his time?(not qualifying for 3 tournaments during his time in the squad 92,06, 98) Was it injuries? Was it Ferguson just being a prick and pulling him from squads? Did Charlton and Mick just prefer someone else at right/left back over him?


Posted By: Shedite
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2020 at 9:02am
Originally posted by lassassinblanc lassassinblanc wrote:

Why was it that Irwin has so few caps?

Was it just our lack of games during his time?(not qualifying for 3 tournaments during his time in the squad 92,06, 98) Was it injuries? Was it Ferguson just being a prick and pulling him from squads? Did Charlton and Mick just prefer someone else at right/left back over him?
From looking at his appearances, looks like he only missed 12 games in his prime, when he turned 30, Gary Kelly appeared as a 22 year old. 
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/denis-irwin/nationalmannschaft/spieler/4280" rel="nofollow - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/denis-irwin/nationalmannschaft/spieler/4280

Looks like a lot of the games he was dropped were due to his pace, most famously when Phelan played against Netherlands in 94 to mark Overmars.

Also interesting in that list, he only played 4 of 16 friendlies in his time.


Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2020 at 9:06am
He was still playing in the second division in 1990, moving to Old Trafford that summer and making his debut that season and he was 24 at that point. 
I don't think he was every Charlton's type of player, there was some rumour,  I think, of a disagreement, but most of his caps came over those two campaigns where he was first choice. 
I think by the time Mick came in Fergie was able to tell national managers where to go, see Giggs and Keane, and Mick was bringing through the youth. He was still involved though. His free-kick against Belgium stands out in my mind as being the most 'un-Irish' goal of that decade!


-------------
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.


Posted By: Het-field
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2020 at 9:22am
Also, it could be argued that Irwin finished his international career somewhat prematurely. Players like Niall Quinn were not significantly older, yet still played on until 2002. Irwin left Manchester United that year, and could have attended the 2002 WC, albeit at 36 years old. The  likes of Cascarino, Houghton, McGrath and Aldo all made their final appearances in squads and in games on the other side of 35. You either start your international career early, or extend it. But even at that, Irwin would probably still have fallen short of being a 100 cap winner.


Posted By: lassassinblanc
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2020 at 9:32am
Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Originally posted by lassassinblanc lassassinblanc wrote:

Why was it that Irwin has so few caps?

Was it just our lack of games during his time?(not qualifying for 3 tournaments during his time in the squad 92,06, 98) Was it injuries? Was it Ferguson just being a prick and pulling him from squads? Did Charlton and Mick just prefer someone else at right/left back over him?
From looking at his appearances, looks like he only missed 12 games in his prime, when he turned 30, Gary Kelly appeared as a 22 year old. 
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/denis-irwin/nationalmannschaft/spieler/4280" rel="nofollow - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/denis-irwin/nationalmannschaft/spieler/4280

Looks like a lot of the games he was dropped were due to his pace, most famously when Phelan played against Netherlands in 94 to mark Overmars.

Also interesting in that list, he only played 4 of 16 friendlies in his time.

So it's kind of mixture of a few of the above so


Posted By: McG
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2020 at 9:42am
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

He was still playing in the second division in 1990, moving to Old Trafford that summer and making his debut that season and he was 24 at that point. 
I don't think he was every Charlton's type of player, there was some rumour,  I think, of a disagreement, but most of his caps came over those two campaigns where he was first choice. 
I think by the time Mick came in Fergie was able to tell national managers where to go, see Giggs and Keane, and Mick was bringing through the youth. He was still involved though. His free-kick against Belgium stands out in my mind as being the most 'un-Irish' goal of that decade!

Not sure if Dinny was included in this but didnt Mick tell some of the senior players like McGrath to prove themselves for inclusion?

The folly of a youthful manager in his first real gig. 




-------------
YBIG Table Quiz winner 2016 & 2017
AS YOU WERE McGx



Posted By: Drumcondra 69er
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2020 at 10:08am
Originally posted by McG McG wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

He was still playing in the second division in 1990, moving to Old Trafford that summer and making his debut that season and he was 24 at that point. 
I don't think he was every Charlton's type of player, there was some rumour,  I think, of a disagreement, but most of his caps came over those two campaigns where he was first choice. 
I think by the time Mick came in Fergie was able to tell national managers where to go, see Giggs and Keane, and Mick was bringing through the youth. He was still involved though. His free-kick against Belgium stands out in my mind as being the most 'un-Irish' goal of that decade!

Not sure if Dinny was included in this but didnt Mick tell some of the senior players like McGrath to prove themselves for inclusion?

The folly of a youthful manager in his first real gig. 

That's a myth. McCarthy picked Jeff Kenna for a friendly against Argentina and had Irwin on the bench. When he brought Irwin on he  made a little jibe and told Irwin to 'prove me wrong'. This got twisted into 'prove yourself' in the media and then for dragged up as a stick to beat him with post Saipan.

Irwin always intended retiring post Euro 2000 so that Macedonia goal effectively ended his career despite playing the play offs against Turkey. 


-------------
Blog: http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI
Twitter: @afalsefirstxi
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/afalsefirstxi/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI


Posted By: Ecumenical Matter
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2020 at 10:36pm
Given

Irwin
McGrath
Lawrensen
Beglin


Houghton
Keane 
Brady
Duff

Aldridge
Keane



Posted By: 50%lesssugar&salt
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2020 at 11:49pm
Kiely

Finnan
McGrath
Dunne
Irwin

Duff
Keane
Sheridan
Houghton

Quinn
Keane


Posted By: CillDara
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 1:50am
Based on who I have seen in the flesh:

Given - our best ever keeper, one of the best in the PL for many years. 

Coleman - tough one to call but I would have Coleman ahead of the others for the fact he is such a leader as well. Finnan and Carr two great right backs but neither impressed me in a green shirt as much as Coleman.
Dunne - apart from the Keanes and Duffer probably the next best in the team, put in some heroic performances for us and seemed to get better as the years went on. 
Duffy - in recent years has been our most important player, almost the new Dunne in a way. Such a brave performer.
O'Shea - would have put O'Shea in the middle instead of Duffy but LB is a real weak spot. Harte was good but memories of him are damaged towards the end. O'Shea could perform anywhere and arguably our most consistent performer of the last 20 years.


Whelan - Not spoiled for choice here and despite him getting a fair bit of stick he has always done a good job for us under Trap, MON & Mick. We have had many players in this position who should be selected ahead of him but have ultimately not lived up to expectation.
Keane - too young to remember the majority of his Ireland career but almost single handily won us some games on the way to qualifying for WC2002. Club career speaks for itself.
Walters - In the MON era he really stood up to the plate and was a hugely influential player. Scored some big goals and suited our long ball game so well, was a real blow when he got injured before Euro 2016.
Hoolahan - Criminally underused and one of the best footballers we have produced in my lifetime. We changed how we played when he was on the pitch and will always remember his goal v Sweden (my first game at a tournament).
Duff - on his day I would say he was the best player I've seen in an Ireland jersey. Changed his game as the years went on but was always a class act.

Keane - what can you say, we will be lucky to have someone like him again and my favourite Irish player of all time.


Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 7:33am
Which Coleman is that at right-back? I assumed Séamus first, but then I started reading about leaders and thought there must have been another one before my time.

-------------
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.


Posted By: Drumcondra 69er
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 10:36am
Originally posted by Ecumenical Matter Ecumenical Matter wrote:

Given

Irwin
McGrath
Lawrensen
Beglin

Houghton
Keane 
Brady
Duff

Aldridge
Keane


That would be close to mine only with Lawrenson at centre half. Wink

Might put Quinn in there ahead of Aldo for the partnership with Robbie, think they really complemented each other when they played together. 


-------------
Blog: http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI
Twitter: @afalsefirstxi
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/afalsefirstxi/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI


Posted By: FrankosHereNow
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 11:00am
Dean Kiely LOL

-------------
YBIG Quiz Champion 2016, 2017 & 2018.

As You Were
Three in a row


Posted By: Left foot
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 11:50am

Keith branagan 

Alex Bruce
Liam Daish 
Curtis Fleming
Darren o'dea 

Lee Carsley
Paul Green 
Stephen mcphail 
Darren Potter 

Tommy Coyne 
Caleb Folan




Posted By: Roberto Baggio
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 11:53am
Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:


Keith branagan 

Alex Bruce
Liam Daish 
Curtis Fleming
Darren o'dea 

Lee Carsley
Paul Green 
Stephen mcphail 
Darren Potter 

Tommy Coyne 
Caleb Folan
 
Ridiculous. Paul Butler would definitely be in


Posted By: Green Cockade
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 12:00pm
As would Joe O'Cearuill and Joe Lapira.


Posted By: 50%lesssugar&salt
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 12:37pm
Originally posted by FrankosHereNow FrankosHereNow wrote:

Dean Kiely LOL

You might be thinking of Paddy Kenny


Posted By: Drumcondra 69er
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 12:58pm
Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:


Keith branagan 

Alex Bruce
Liam Daish 
Curtis Fleming
Darren o'dea 

Lee Carsley
Paul Green 
Stephen mcphail 
Darren Potter 

Tommy Coyne 
Caleb Folan


Ridiculously harsh on Carsley. And Coyne to a degree.

Keith Branagan 

John Thompson
Alex Bruce
Paul Butler
Liam Daish 


Jim Goodwin
Mike Milligan
Darren Potter 
Joe Lapira

Mickey Evans
Jon Macken




-------------
Blog: http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI
Twitter: @afalsefirstxi
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/afalsefirstxi/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI


Posted By: FrankosHereNow
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 1:00pm
Originally posted by 50%lesssugar&salt 50%lesssugar&salt wrote:

Originally posted by FrankosHereNow FrankosHereNow wrote:

Dean Kiely LOL

You might be thinking of Paddy Kenny
Give over. Even you don’t believe kiely is the best keeper you’ve seen play for Ireland.

 Kiely must have about 10 caps. Decent keeper but nowhere near as good as Given. 


-------------
YBIG Quiz Champion 2016, 2017 & 2018.

As You Were
Three in a row


Posted By: DeclanDaly
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:


Keith branagan 

Alex Bruce
Liam Daish 
Curtis Fleming
Darren o'dea 

Lee Carsley
Paul Green 
Stephen mcphail 
Darren Potter 

Tommy Coyne 
Caleb Folan


Ridiculously harsh on Carsley. And Coyne to a degree.

Keith Branagan 

John Thompson
Alex Bruce
Paul Butler
Liam Daish 


Jim Goodwin
Mike Milligan
Darren Potter 
Joe Lapira

Mickey Evans
Jon Macken


You’re asking for trouble playing Lapira on the wing. Poor Liam Daish 


-------------
You asked if I'd be anyone from history, fact or fiction, dead or alive:
I said "I'd be Tony Cascarino, circa 1995"


Posted By: pre Madonna
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 1:22pm
Carsley? f**k off! Coyne should be nowhere such a side either!

-------------
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.


Posted By: FrankosHereNow
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 1:24pm
I thought McPhail was a quality footballer also.

-------------
YBIG Quiz Champion 2016, 2017 & 2018.

As You Were
Three in a row


Posted By: Green Cockade
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 1:29pm
A formidable line-up indeed but here's one with nobody out of position :

GK: Ron Healey

DF: Eddie Nolan, Joe O'Cearuill, Paul Butler ( capt.), Stephen O'Halloran

MF : Thomas Butler, Synan Braddish, Peter Murphy, Ken de Mange

F : Joe Lapira , Terry Donovan


Posted By: The O'Shea
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 1:35pm
Given
Coleman
O'Shea
Dunne
Harte
McGeady
Keane
Hoolahan
Duff
Keane 
Doyle


-------------
We're decent enough..


Posted By: Mr. Snrub
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 2:58pm
Given
Finnan
Dunne
Duffy
O'Shea
Hoolahan
Keane (c)
Holland
Duff
Quinn
Keane


-------------
"Here's Robbie Keane...... yeeeessss! That is no more than Ireland deserve!"


Posted By: BrendanD88
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 9:01pm
[QUOTE=The O'Shea]Given
Coleman
O'Shea
Dunne
Harte
McGeady
Keane
Hoolahan
Duff
Keane 
Doyle
[/QUOTE

LOL


Posted By: The O'Shea
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 9:30pm
Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

[QUOTE=The O'Shea]Given
Coleman
O'Shea
Dunne
Harte
McGeady
Keane
Hoolahan
Duff
Keane 
Doyle
[/QUOTE

LOL

Are you well?


-------------
We're decent enough..


Posted By: Delfor Mullin
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 10:49pm
it can be better with  a full squad of 23.  Me and my nephew have  a full squad of 23 


Posted By: deise316
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 11:28pm
Best Ireland XI of your lifetime, but picked in Garth Crooks style. 
343, for no reason whatsoever. 

Packie (more assists than Given or Randolph)
Dunne 
Stan
Harte
Kilbane
Royston
Duff
McClean
Quinn
Stapleton 
Keane


-------------
Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....


Posted By: deise316
Date Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 11:56pm
Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:


Keith branagan 

Alex Bruce
Liam Daish 
Curtis Fleming
Darren o'dea 

Lee Carsley
Paul Green 
Stephen mcphail 
Darren Potter 

Tommy Coyne 
Caleb Folan


Branagan had a solid career, played 2 or 3 years in the EPL with Bolton when they were a half decent team. His time with Ireland was around the end of Bonner's career, coinciding with the emergence of Given. Alan Kelly was also about, as was Dean Kiely. If he was playing today, as a keeper with a bit of top flight experience and plenty of championship experience, he would likely be in every squad. 

Curtis Fleming also had a very good career, he was mainly a reserve full back in an era we had plenty top quality full backs, not really much different to where say, Cyrus Christie is now. 

Darren O'Dea was a fella who didn't fulfill his early promise, won 20 caps for us, certainly not deserving of any mockery. 

Carsley, 40 caps for us when his contemporaries were Keane, Holland, Kinsella, Kilbane and nearly 400 games in the top 2 flights in England. Enough said. 

McPhail- highly rated talent blighted by injury. 

Tommy Coyne- Ran himself to literal collapse in one of our most famous victories. 

I'd accept the rest were lucky to get any caps, or maybe shouldn't have got as many as they did, but it doesn't appear you can tell the difference between those lads and fellas who were actually decent footballers or unlucky with injuries. 




-------------
Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....


Posted By: rebelbrowser
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 12:11am
Bonner

Irwin
Staunton
McGrath
Lawrenson

Keane (c)
Brady
Houghton
Duff

Stapleton
Keane

Big one for me was Quinn v Stapleton. Frank was my first favourite player so gets the nod. Shay v Packie tight too but Packie did more for us in green and Shays Euro 2012 shenanigans linger in the memory.

Separately, just on the Denis Irwin discussion, it really is crazy in hindsight that having played at every level for Ireland, including B , he didn't make his  full debut til he was 24. By June 1990 he was 10 times the right full back that Chris Morris was and had done enough to get a move to Man United. Crazy he wasnt at Italia 90, let alone even capped by then.


Posted By: Drumcondra 69er
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 8:42am
Originally posted by rebelbrowser rebelbrowser wrote:

Bonner

Irwin
Staunton
McGrath
Lawrenson

Keane (c)
Brady
Houghton
Duff

Stapleton
Keane

Big one for me was Quinn v Stapleton. Frank was my first favourite player so gets the nod. Shay v Packie tight too but Packie did more for us in green and Shays Euro 2012 shenanigans linger in the memory.

Separately, just on the Denis Irwin discussion, it really is crazy in hindsight that having played at every level for Ireland, including B , he didn't make his  full debut til he was 24. By June 1990 he was 10 times the right full back that Chris Morris was and had done enough to get a move to Man United. Crazy he wasnt at Italia 90, let alone even capped by then.

It's not crazy at all. Morris was winning things with Celtic at a time when the Scottish League was very close to the English league in terms of standard due to the European ban (Rangers had more players in the England squad that reached the semis in 1990, for example).

Irwin had come through at Leeds, been let go to Oldham for a song and had to rebuild his career there. He had an excellent season in 89/90 resulting in his move to Man U but there was no clamour for him to be selected ahead of our defence of Morris, McGrath, McCarthy, Moran, O'Leary, Staunton or even Hughton who wouldn't play. 

It's  easy to look at it with hindsight but the general concensus was that his time would come after the tournament and that was what transpired. 
 


-------------
Blog: http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI
Twitter: @afalsefirstxi
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/afalsefirstxi/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI


Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 10:25am
Stapleton another class act who the younger crew have missed.   What a goal he got away to Bulgaria in a game we lost but won the war.  A forgotten great irish goal, along with his goal away to Belgium.  McGrath got some great goals in that campaign too.  




-------------
AKA pedantic kunt


Posted By: rebelbrowser
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 10:59am
Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Originally posted by rebelbrowser rebelbrowser wrote:



Separately, just on the Denis Irwin discussion, it really is crazy in hindsight that having played at every level for Ireland, including B , he didn't make his  full debut til he was 24. By June 1990 he was 10 times the right full back that Chris Morris was and had done enough to get a move to Man United. Crazy he wasnt at Italia 90, let alone even capped by then.

It's not crazy at all. Morris was winning things with Celtic at a time when the Scottish League was very close to the English league in terms of standard due to the European ban (Rangers had more players in the England squad that reached the semis in 1990, for example).

Irwin had come through at Leeds, been let go to Oldham for a song and had to rebuild his career there. He had an excellent season in 89/90 resulting in his move to Man U but there was no clamour for him to be selected ahead of our defence of Morris, McGrath, McCarthy, Moran, O'Leary, Staunton or even Hughton who wouldn't play. 

It's  easy to look at it with hindsight but the general concensus was that his time would come after the tournament and that was what transpired. 
 

There is some hindsight in this I admit but not as much as you say.  Im typing this from memory so apologies if I have the facts wrong, but...Irwin was playing incredible stuff in early 1990 (hence getting Fergie's attention). Oldham got to the League Cup Final, the FA Cup semi (an epic which they lost after a replay to United) and got promoted. At a time when there was f all football on telly, Oldham were everywhere.  in fact, because they played a lot of their matches on a Friday night, you would often see highlights of them, with Irwin standing out, in "The Saint & Greavsie" on Saturday mornings (I'm showing my age!).

Irwins form was such that he, and Milligan referred to above, were picked from Oldham to play in the famous Ireland B v England B match at Turner's Cross in ca April 1990 - a match set up specifically to look at "late bolters" for the plane to Italy. As you probably know Ireland won 4-1 against a fantastic (on paper anyway) English team and certainly Niall Quinn's Ireland career got accelerated that day (btw is there a thread on that match somewhere? If not there should be - I think it was arguably the most enjoyable game I was ever at, Tony Adams is still scarred by his treatment from the Shed that day!).  From recollection Irwin had a very good game and set up a goal. As stated he had a fantastic Cup Semi then in two really highly watched games too. Certainly down here we had great hopes by April 1990 that Irwin would sneak onto the plane.

Meanwhile everyone knew Chris Morris was our poorest player by then and  I stick to my point, that by early 1990, you could make a very strong case for capping Irwin in some pre tournament full matches (had we any mind?) and taking him to Italy.  Forgetting even defending, Chris Morris' crossing v Denis Irwins crossing as at 1990? No contest. Morris was awful in something key to the Charlton way of playing.

Cant remember if we brought a sub right back? You name 7 backs above so perhaps not? Logic might have been that McGrath could play right back or one of the left backs could switch over, but not sure how well either of those would have worked out if Morris got injured.


Posted By: Drumcondra 69er
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by rebelbrowser rebelbrowser wrote:

Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Originally posted by rebelbrowser rebelbrowser wrote:



Separately, just on the Denis Irwin discussion, it really is crazy in hindsight that having played at every level for Ireland, including B , he didn't make his  full debut til he was 24. By June 1990 he was 10 times the right full back that Chris Morris was and had done enough to get a move to Man United. Crazy he wasnt at Italia 90, let alone even capped by then.

It's not crazy at all. Morris was winning things with Celtic at a time when the Scottish League was very close to the English league in terms of standard due to the European ban (Rangers had more players in the England squad that reached the semis in 1990, for example).

Irwin had come through at Leeds, been let go to Oldham for a song and had to rebuild his career there. He had an excellent season in 89/90 resulting in his move to Man U but there was no clamour for him to be selected ahead of our defence of Morris, McGrath, McCarthy, Moran, O'Leary, Staunton or even Hughton who wouldn't play. 

It's  easy to look at it with hindsight but the general concensus was that his time would come after the tournament and that was what transpired. 
 

There is some hindsight in this I admit but not as much as you say.  Im typing this from memory so apologies if I have the facts wrong, but...Irwin was playing incredible stuff in early 1990 (hence getting Fergie's attention). Oldham got to the League Cup Final, the FA Cup semi (an epic which they lost after a replay to United) and got promoted. At a time when there was f all football on telly, Oldham were everywhere.  in fact, because they played a lot of their matches on a Friday night, you would often see highlights of them, with Irwin standing out, in "The Saint & Greavsie" on Saturday mornings (I'm showing my age!).

Irwins form was such that he, and Milligan referred to above, were picked from Oldham to play in the famous Ireland B v England B match at Turner's Cross in ca April 1990 - a match set up specifically to look at "late bolters" for the plane to Italy. As you probably know Ireland won 4-1 against a fantastic (on paper anyway) English team and certainly Niall Quinn's Ireland career got accelerated that day (btw is there a thread on that match somewhere? If not there should be - I think it was arguably the most enjoyable game I was ever at, Tony Adams is still scarred by his treatment from the Shed that day!).  From recollection Irwin had a very good game and set up a goal. As stated he had a fantastic Cup Semi then in two really highly watched games too. Certainly down here we had great hopes by April 1990 that Irwin would sneak onto the plane.

Meanwhile everyone knew Chris Morris was our poorest player by then and  I stick to my point, that by early 1990, you could make a very strong case for capping Irwin in some pre tournament full matches (had we any mind?) and taking him to Italy.  Forgetting even defending, Chris Morris' crossing v Denis Irwins crossing as at 1990? No contest. Morris was awful in something key to the Charlton way of playing.

Cant remember if we brought a sub right back? You name 7 backs above so perhaps not? Logic might have been that McGrath could play right back or one of the left backs could switch over, but not sure how well either of those would have worked out if Morris got injured.

You're not wrong with any of that generally. I'd argue that Quinn and Kelly were already well established squad members given they had been in the Euro 88 squad and Quinn had seen game time in that tournament. I think they were put in just to get a run as Jack wanted to look at Slaven up front in the senior friendly that week. Interestingly, Jim Beglin had just been promoted with Leeds and was picked as the other full back in the B game for his last appearance in green iirc. 

But regarding Irwin, Morris had been first choice through Euro 88 and all the Italia 90 qualifiers and was nailed on for the squad. So for Irwin to get in it would have been ahead of one of the other defenders. I think that list of 7 is the lot. Realistically, it's only Chris Hughton that could have made way who had started to fade from the first team picture at Spurs and had suffered from injury. But given he'd played in the top flight for years before then and his service in green, I don't think there was any appetite for him to be replaced by someone who had never played in the top flight at that stage. Probably a bit of sentimentality involved. Irwin was unfortunate that we were very strong at the back rather than say midfield where Gary Waddock made the initial squad before McLoughlin, who also played in that B game I think, forced him out due to doubts over Houghton's fitness. Or up front where Slaven got picked. I just don't think there was any chance that Jack was going to change the team that had qualified due to an admittedly superb run of form from that January nor was there any expectation. 

Funny enough, I was at all the games back then and regularly bemoaned Morris' crossing. A few years later, I was having a pint in Quinn's with a mate and they were playing the video of the Italia 90 qualifiers. Who was pumping in quality ball after quality ball? Chris fcuking Morris! LOL I know it was highlights but we had a good laugh over it!


-------------
Blog: http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI
Twitter: @afalsefirstxi
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/afalsefirstxi/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI


Posted By: rebelbrowser
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 1:13pm
Thumbs Up


Posted By: Drumcondra 69er
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by rebelbrowser rebelbrowser wrote:

Thumbs Up

Actually found the teams and a video of that B game if anyone's intersted. Was a very strong England side. 

Ireland B: Gary Kelly, Denis Irwin (Terry Phelan), Jim Beglin, Derek Brazil, Pat Scully, Alan McLoughlin (Kenneth de Mange), Brian Mooney, Mike Milligan (Gary Waddock), Niall Quinn, David Kelly (Owen Coyle), Mark Kelly

England B: Dave Beasant (David Seaman), Lee Dixon (Ian Snodin), Nigel Winterburn, Carlton Palmer, Andy Linighan, Tony Adams, Matthew Le Tissier (Tony Daley), David Batty, Paul Williams (Nigel Clough), Dalian Atkinson, Andy Sinton, Paul Lake




-------------
Blog: http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI
Twitter: @afalsefirstxi
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/afalsefirstxi/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI


Posted By: Left foot
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by deise316 deise316 wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:


Keith branagan 

Alex Bruce
Liam Daish 
Curtis Fleming
Darren o'dea 

Lee Carsley
Paul Green 
Stephen mcphail 
Darren Potter 

Tommy Coyne 
Caleb Folan


Branagan had a solid career, played 2 or 3 years in the EPL with Bolton when they were a half decent team. His time with Ireland was around the end of Bonner's career, coinciding with the emergence of Given. Alan Kelly was also about, as was Dean Kiely. If he was playing today, as a keeper with a bit of top flight experience and plenty of championship experience, he would likely be in every squad. 

Curtis Fleming also had a very good career, he was mainly a reserve full back in an era we had plenty top quality full backs, not really much different to where say, Cyrus Christie is now. 

Darren O'Dea was a fella who didn't fulfill his early promise, won 20 caps for us, certainly not deserving of any mockery. 

Carsley, 40 caps for us when his contemporaries were Keane, Holland, Kinsella, Kilbane and nearly 400 games in the top 2 flights in England. Enough said. 

McPhail- highly rated talent blighted by injury. 

Tommy Coyne- Ran himself to literal collapse in one of our most famous victories. 

I'd accept the rest were lucky to get any caps, or maybe shouldn't have got as many as they did, but it doesn't appear you can tell the difference between those lads and fellas who were actually decent footballers or unlucky with injuries. 



Just a bit of fun deise, a list knocked out in 5 mins. It wasnt mean't to be subject to scrutiny.i get the feeling you probably knew that though.


Posted By: DeclanDaly
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 2:45pm
We had an embarrassment of riches at full back for about a decade. Saw a game recently where we had Irwin, Phelan and Staunton on the pitch. Essentially three top left backs. Under Trap and O’Neill we didn’t have one (despite some brave efforts from Kilbane)

-------------
You asked if I'd be anyone from history, fact or fiction, dead or alive:
I said "I'd be Tony Cascarino, circa 1995"


Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 2:52pm
Originally posted by DeclanDaly DeclanDaly wrote:

We had an embarrassment of riches at full back for about a decade. Saw a game recently where we had Irwin, Phelan and Staunton on the pitch. Essentially three top left backs. Under Trap and O’Neill we didn’t have one (despite some brave efforts from Kilbane)

Phelan was not a top left back.  He was a grand premier league player.  If he was around now he would be one of our better players but not a top player and shouldn't be compared to Irwin or even staunton.  

Irwin was class and world class at that Staunton was a very good player who won leagues at liverpool but wasnt world class  


-------------
AKA pedantic kunt


Posted By: DeclanDaly
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 2:57pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by DeclanDaly DeclanDaly wrote:

We had an embarrassment of riches at full back for about a decade. Saw a game recently where we had Irwin, Phelan and Staunton on the pitch. Essentially three top left backs. Under Trap and O’Neill we didn’t have one (despite some brave efforts from Kilbane)

Phelan was not a top left back.  He was a grand premier league player.  If he was around now he would be one of our better players but not a top player and shouldn't be compared to Irwin or even staunton.  

Irwin was class and world class at that Staunton was a very good player who won leagues at liverpool but wasnt world class  

Yeah, I’d agree with you. I suppose “top flight” is what I was thinking. He would certainly have been handy 15 years later. There was once a story about him going to Barcelona I think. He was f**king fast in fairness


-------------
You asked if I'd be anyone from history, fact or fiction, dead or alive:
I said "I'd be Tony Cascarino, circa 1995"


Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 3:08pm
So was shergar but not fast enough 

-------------
AKA pedantic kunt


Posted By: Drumcondra 69er
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by DeclanDaly DeclanDaly wrote:

We had an embarrassment of riches at full back for about a decade. Saw a game recently where we had Irwin, Phelan and Staunton on the pitch. Essentially three top left backs. Under Trap and O’Neill we didn’t have one (despite some brave efforts from Kilbane)

Phelan was not a top left back.  He was a grand premier league player.  If he was around now he would be one of our better players but not a top player and shouldn't be compared to Irwin or even staunton.  

Irwin was class and world class at that Staunton was a very good player who won leagues at liverpool but wasnt world class  

Disagree. Phelan was a top end left back in the top flight at his peak. FA Cup winner and when City bought him from Wimbledon it equalled the record fee for a defender. Wouldn't compare him with Irwin but don't think you're giving him enough credit. He was very solid at the back, lightning fast and very good going forward. 


-------------
Blog: http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI
Twitter: @afalsefirstxi
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/afalsefirstxi/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI


Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 3:14pm
I dont think he was in the top 3 in his position in the premier league at the time never mind the world.  So I think that disqualifies him from being a top class player.  

He was above average in the Premier league as in he was better than most left fulls and certainly in the top 10 but not top 3.   

Transfer few as you know has a number of contributing factors and ability and performance are only one of many.   

Good servant for ireland and Wimbledon and city and chelsea.  


-------------
AKA pedantic kunt


Posted By: Conan
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 3:17pm
GK: Given
LB: Staunton
CB: McGrath
CB:Moran
RB: Irwin
MF:L Brady
MF:Sheedy
MF:Roy Keane 
MF:R Whelan
FW:Stapleton
FW:Robbie Keane

Wasn't around to remember Johnny Giles on the pitch but he seems to have been the only player from the pre Charlton era that would have come in to contention anyway as until the mid eighties we were no better at football than we are now.



Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 3:31pm
Originally posted by Conan Conan wrote:

GK: Given
LB: Staunton
CB: McGrath
CB:Moran
RB: Irwin
MF:L Brady
MF:Sheedy
MF:Roy Keane 
MF:R Whelan
FW:Stapleton
FW:Robbie Keane

Wasn't around to remember Johnny Giles on the pitch but he seems to have been the only player from the pre Charlton era that would have come in to contention anyway as until the mid eighties we were no better at football than we are now.


Have chatted to many who say that Jackie Carey is our greatest player.  Captained Utd and managed ireland too. Charlie hurley was meant to be a fantastic player also and Noel Cantell was a utd captain too to mention LIam Whelan one of the Busby Babes.  .


-------------
AKA pedantic kunt


Posted By: Drumcondra 69er
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

I dont think he was in the top 3 in his position in the premier league at the time never mind the world.  So I think that disqualifies him from being a top class player.  

He was above average in the Premier league as in he was better than most left fulls and certainly in the top 10 but not top 3.   

Transfer few as you know has a number of contributing factors and ability and performance are only one of many.   

Good servant for ireland and Wimbledon and city and chelsea.  

I'm talking in old Division 1 / early PL terms. Is top 3 your metric? Who was ahead of him around that time at the clubs that were in the mix for league titles first five years of the 90s?

Arsenal - Winterburn - Yes 
Liverpool - Burrows and Bjornebye - No 
Leeds - Dorigo - Maybe but probably not 
Man U - Irwin - Yes 
Blackburn - Le Saux - Yes 
Newcastle - Beresford - No
Villa - Staunton - Yes

Only those four above him off the top of my head and they were all excellent players. Am I missing anyone? Yes, I am bored! 



-------------
Blog: http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI
Twitter: @afalsefirstxi
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/afalsefirstxi/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI


Posted By: Het-field
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 3:40pm
Julian Dicks!


Posted By: Baldrick
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 3:49pm
Stuart Pearse was a better left back in late 80s to mid 90s than Phelan.  

I would also say Dorigo was better also.  


-------------
AKA pedantic kunt


Posted By: rebelbrowser
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 3:54pm
Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Originally posted by rebelbrowser rebelbrowser wrote:

Thumbs Up

Actually found the teams and a video of that B game if anyone's intersted. Was a very strong England side. 

Ireland B: Gary Kelly, Denis Irwin (Terry Phelan), Jim Beglin, Derek Brazil, Pat Scully, Alan McLoughlin (Kenneth de Mange), Brian Mooney, Mike Milligan (Gary Waddock), Niall Quinn, David Kelly (Owen Coyle), Mark Kelly

England B: Dave Beasant (David Seaman), Lee Dixon (Ian Snodin), Nigel Winterburn, Carlton Palmer, Andy Linighan, Tony Adams, Matthew Le Tissier (Tony Daley), David Batty, Paul Williams (Nigel Clough), Dalian Atkinson, Andy Sinton, Paul Lake

Just watched that, thanks a million for the link. It rarely happens but that still is as good as I remember it was a 13 year old. A great day.




Posted By: SUPERWESLEYHOOLAHAN
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 4:00pm
Given-Class, should have retired few years before he did but brilliant in his prime

Coleman - Good few years back, but would have Doherty over him now anyday

Dunne 
-Beast

O'Shea - Versatile and solid for Ireland 

 Staunton - Leader and good full back

 Walters - Scorer of important goals and very hard working player, bit like Mcclean but has ability 

Roy Keane  - Leader 

A. Reid - Dominated Germans in Landsdowne and was always good in the green shirt, ability wise up there with our best ever, robbed of an international career

Duff - Top class winger

Hoolahan - Unbelievable talent, some outstanding moments in green, excellent against the Germans, made Mcclean goal in Vienna, made Brady goal in Lille, changed the game at home to Poland etc. In general had the balls to look for the ball and pick a pass when others didn't, shame he didn't have a longer international career 

Keane - Brilliant finisher and under appreciated work rate

Given
Coleman O'Shea Dunne Stan
Walters Keane Reid Duff
Hoolahan 
Keane

 


Posted By: Drumcondra 69er
Date Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 4:06pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Stuart Pearse was a better left back in late 80s to mid 90s than Phelan.  

I would also say Dorigo was better also.  

Pearce is fair. Not sure on Dorigo and I watched a lot of him. 


-------------
Blog: http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI
Twitter: @afalsefirstxi
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/afalsefirstxi/" rel="nofollow - A False First XI



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.00 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net