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Liam Brady
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Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:

Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Originally posted by Dots1982 Dots1982 wrote:

”stand out” and “starring” performances being mentioned in the PL post lockdown. He only started 3 games post lockdown was and subbed off before the 70th minute in 2 games. He’s being ok but calm down on the ‘stand out’ and ‘starring’, it’s not referring to reality.


This kind of hysteria is the norm for English born players. Can you imagine the outrage re: Jason Knight being left out if he was born in Essex?

He has 6 goals from 20 starts for a team challenging from promotion, managed by someone who played in his position for Barcelona.

Not a peep when he's left out, but someone who gets 4 Premier League starts is left out and it's almost inconceivable.

I disagree.  

It's great that Knight is getting ahead and I've been following him for a while.  But there is a world of difference in playing for Championship mid-table mediocrity with unknowns and retirees; and the level that Southampton is at playing beside current established internationals and league top-scorers.  The gulf between the Championship and the Premier League is huge and growing.  

Only a few teenagers make the breakthrough directly in the Premier League these days; and those that do, tend to be special players, such as Greenwood, Rice, Rashford, Foden, Grealish etc.  Smallbone's midfield partner in the games he was playing in has just gone to Spurs for €30 million and has played for Bayern and Schalke and has 33 caps for Denmark for which he is a mainstay.  Knight's playing with a far weaker standard of player (Bird? Shinnie? Martin?).

If Smallbone is good enough to play centre-mid in a competitive premier league game against Matic, Pogba, Rashford et al in Old Trafford, he's good enough to appear for us against Bulgaria and Finland. 

Most importantly, just watch the lad play.  He has a lot of class and it's no coincidence he's getting picked more and more at PL level.  He'd be comfortable in our senior squad. Not including him now is a wasted opportunity to get him involved.

Agreed and with McCarthy out injured I hope he is the one who is called up. I doubt it though. I think he will be seen as a Molumby level replacement in the 21's as he will be missed in that team more than the others who have moved up imo.
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Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Originally posted by Dots1982 Dots1982 wrote:

”stand out” and “starring” performances being mentioned in the PL post lockdown. He only started 3 games post lockdown was and subbed off before the 70th minute in 2 games. He’s being ok but calm down on the ‘stand out’ and ‘starring’, it’s not referring to reality.


This kind of hysteria is the norm for English born players. Can you imagine the outrage re: Jason Knight being left out if he was born in Essex?

He has 6 goals from 20 starts for a team challenging from promotion, managed by someone who played in his position for Barcelona.

Not a peep when he's left out, but someone who gets 4 Premier League starts is left out and it's almost inconceivable.

I disagree.  

It's great that Knight is getting ahead and I've been following him for a while.  But there is a world of difference in playing for Championship mid-table mediocrity with unknowns and retirees; and the level that Southampton is at playing beside current established internationals and league top-scorers.  The gulf between the Championship and the Premier League is huge and growing.  

Only a few teenagers make the breakthrough directly in the Premier League these days; and those that do, tend to be special players, such as Greenwood, Rice, Rashford, Foden, Grealish etc.  Smallbone's midfield partner in the games he was playing in has just gone to Spurs for €30 million and has played for Bayern and Schalke and has 33 caps for Denmark for which he is a mainstay.  Knight's playing with a far weaker standard of player (Bird? Shinnie? Martin?).

If Smallbone is good enough to play centre-mid in a competitive premier league game against Matic, Pogba, Rashford et al in Old Trafford, he's good enough to appear for us against Bulgaria and Finland. 

Most importantly, just watch the lad play.  He has a lot of class and it's no coincidence he's getting picked more and more at PL level.  He'd be comfortable in our senior squad. Not including him now is a wasted opportunity to get him involved.
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Edited by Luis Amor Rodriguez - 26 Aug 2020 at 1:02am
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Originally posted by Fozz Fozz wrote:

I've no doubts about this lad and I also doubt he'd request to be in the 21s.

His development has been rapid this last few months but he's only represented Ireland at U19 and so it's logical to get him into the 21s, to get a better feel of how Kenny wants to play etc.

There's club games between now and the October squad which will have a bearing on that lineup.
If Smallbone is featuring for So'ton regularly and is still omitted, then we can ask questions of Kenny's choices but, for now, all seems above board and logical.


 

Agreed I think the theories about this lad why isn’t in the squad etc are bordering on mental. He said in an interview unprompted that he hopes to follow Shane and Michaels path into the international squad. What else can he say and until he indicates otherwise you have to presume he’s a 100% committed to us. 

He will be called up to the next 21s squad if nothing else but no doubt if he’s playing for Southampton (every chance he will be with Holjberg gone) and Hassenhuttl seems to really rate him he will be called up. 

I actually have a feeling going by when the League is restarting etc he will be called up to the squad in November and am quietly confident in that prediction. 
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Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

You'll never win anything with kids 

I think you just have to be realistic,

If we were playing Slovakia in the morning what are the chances of Idah, Molomby, Parrott, Smallbone, Knight, O'Shea, Collins etc all starting or even seeing game time?

I think come mid October when we're due to face Slovakia, depending on how players are performing at their clubs, be it the young guns or the older heads we may well see 1 or 2 being included in the squad but I wouldn't hold my breath. 
 

I can’t argue with the fact this Autumn most of the younger lads won’t be playing bar Connolly and maybe Molumby. However I do genuinely believe if Idah Parrott even Obafemi hit the ground running for their clubs they will find themselves close to starting very quickly. Reality is these lads are very talented and add a bit of star quality to what is a solid group but is sorely lacking star quality. 

while the likes of Mcgoldrick Robinson Hendrick Long McClean etc are playing at a decent level now and are solidish options the young lads have the potential to add another dimension to the team that those lads above possibly can’t  add to be blunt about it. Kenny is not an idiot and I guarantee you that has crossed his mind fleetingly. 

A lot depends on those lads hitting the ground running for the their clubs this year also that goes without saying. 
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Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

You'll never win anything with kids 

I think you just have to be realistic,

If we were playing Slovakia in the morning what are the chances of Idah, Molomby, Parrott, Smallbone, Knight, O'Shea, Collins etc all starting or even seeing game time?

I think come mid October when we're due to face Slovakia, depending on how players are performing at their clubs, be it the young guns or the older heads we may well see 1 or 2 being included in the squad but I wouldn't hold my breath. 
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You'll never win anything with kids 
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The transition from our underage set up to the senior team has to be gradual, you simply cannot start including 7 or 8 young players all at once. Remember these are competitive games against Finland and Bulgaria, even if the manager will have 1 eye on the Slovakia game.

You will find against both teams, Kenny will likely look to field 9/10 of who he's potentially starting against Slovakia and depending on how said games are going, we may well see the introduction of Molomby, Idah and Parrott.
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Originally posted by Dots1982 Dots1982 wrote:

”stand out” and “starring” performances being mentioned in the PL post lockdown. He only started 3 games post lockdown was and subbed off before the 70th minute in 2 games. He’s being ok but calm down on the ‘stand out’ and ‘starring’, it’s not referring to reality.


This kind of hysteria is the norm for English born players. Can you imagine the outrage re: Jason Knight being left out if he was born in Essex?

He has 6 goals from 20 starts for a team challenging from promotion, managed by someone who played in his position for Barcelona.

Not a peep when he's left out, but someone who gets 4 Premier League starts is left out and it's almost inconceivable.
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”stand out” and “starring” performances being mentioned in the PL post lockdown. He only started 3 games post lockdown was and subbed off before the 70th minute in 2 games. He’s being ok but calm down on the ‘stand out’ and ‘starring’, it’s not referring to reality.
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Originally posted by Howdo Howdo wrote:

There’s been absolutely SFA from either him or Kenny that he’s about to jump ship, can ye stop this nonsense ffs

Add to that the players who would be ahead of him in the England squad, most of whom are quite young or very young.

But I agree, his commitment seems fine and his omission from this squad is reasonable.
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There’s been absolutely SFA from either him or Kenny that he’s about to jump ship, can ye stop this nonsense ffs
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I think its fair to say that If a player wants to play for a country he feels closer to then we should wish that player well.

What we dont want to see is a player who already knows that he would refuse to play in the senior team and tied down to us and opt to play in the u21s instead for the meantime. 

Smallbone is a player we've been crying out for, great on the ball and links midfield with attack. I think he could have a massive future in a green shirt.
I'm optimistic he'll stay with us and could very well be in the next squad selection 
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I've no doubts about this lad and I also doubt he'd request to be in the 21s.

His development has been rapid this last few months but he's only represented Ireland at U19 and so it's logical to get him into the 21s, to get a better feel of how Kenny wants to play etc.

There's club games between now and the October squad which will have a bearing on that lineup.
If Smallbone is featuring for So'ton regularly and is still omitted, then we can ask questions of Kenny's choices but, for now, all seems above board and logical.
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Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:

Depending on what's going on behind the scenes, I feel it's a mistake not to include Smallbone in the senior squad for the Nations League.

From the perspective of pure merit he should be in there, given his stand-out performances in the PL in the second half of the season, above and beyond the likes of say Idah, Parrott or O'Dowda (or even Brady).

But also in terms of the type of player he is: our squad is missing that kind of ball-playing midfielder and could genuinely benefit from his inclusion.  Also, being very young and Nations League being a solid competitive basis for integrating players, without world cup qualifying points at stake, it seems a missed opportunity.

My own suspicion is that there is more to this than meets the eye, but I hope I'm wrong.  Kenny said early doors Smallbone would be in the U21s.  However, if he was from Sheriff Street, Cork or Galway with 9 starring PL appearance (mostly after lockdown), I suspect he'd be in there.

If I'm wrong in that suspicion, it does seem a wasted opportunity to not get him involved.  His high potential for having a big role for us in years to come seems obvious - and Nations League are the games to lay the foundations for that.


I've mentioned this in other threads, but there's a possibility that Smallbone told Kenny he wants to stay with the under 21s for now.

Either way, I'm relaxed about it. Save for Arter, there's nobody in the squad he should be in there ahead of on merit. Sure Josh Cullen and Jason Knight aren't in there either, and they have just as much a right to be in there as him.

I don't agree with capping every English born player with the slightest modicum of potential in competitive games. If some lads had their way Smallbone, Ferry, Hodge, L. Kelly, Field, Odubeko, Okoflex, Coventry, Connell, Kian Flanagan, Charsley, Ronan, Crowley, Scully and Harvey Neville would all be tied down for us by now.

People just assume that if lads like Smallbone were called up for a competitive game, they would gladly accept and sit on the bench hoping for a 15 second cameo before being out of sight and out of mind again once they can't play for anyone else.

Sure these lads have agency. They're aware of the rules the same way we are and they are just as likely to say "thanks, but no thanks" to any cynical call up if they have any inclination to play for another team.
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Depending on what's going on behind the scenes, I feel it's a mistake not to include Smallbone in the senior squad for the Nations League.

From the perspective of pure merit he should be in there, given his stand-out performances in the PL in the second half of the season, above and beyond the likes of say Idah, Parrott or O'Dowda (or even Brady).

But also in terms of the type of player he is: our squad is missing that kind of ball-playing midfielder and could genuinely benefit from his inclusion.  Also, being very young and Nations League being a solid competitive basis for integrating players, without world cup qualifying points at stake, it seems a missed opportunity.

My own suspicion is that there is more to this than meets the eye, but I hope I'm wrong.  Kenny said early doors Smallbone would be in the U21s.  However, if he was from Sheriff Street, Cork or Galway with 9 starring PL appearance (mostly after lockdown), I suspect he'd be in there.

If I'm wrong in that suspicion, it does seem a wasted opportunity to not get him involved.  His high potential for having a big role for us in years to come seems obvious - and Nations League are the games to lay the foundations for that.

I hope we don't end up regretting omitting him.
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Edited by Luis Amor Rodriguez - 25 Aug 2020 at 6:17pm
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Kenny has already said he'll be with the 21s
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