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Bo Jackson 
Liam Brady
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 Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 10:27pm |
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The step up from both Minor and U-20 standard to Senior Inter-County football is huge. It was never the greatest indicator of future trends in the past and even more so now.
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You don't know Bo?
2018 YBIG Fantasy Football Champ!
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Baldrick
Robbie Keane
Peyton-tly Pedantic
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Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 10:14pm |
 Green Devil wrote:
Baldrick wrote:
reddladd wrote:
Bottom line is that if you get your act together with underage coaching etc then if your pool is 1m odd as opposed to Laois’s 60,000 then you’re going to supply a greater number of the Con O’ OCallaghans of this world. You can’t hide from the inequality Re population. |
Totally agree, but the solution to that is not simply cut Dublin into 3 or 4 but its also the almalgation of counties etc.
However i will add look at the work that Monaghan have been doing over the last number of years compared to say Kildare or Meath who have huge populations and Cork also. The performance by other Leinster counties with large populations in the qualifiers has been terrible. Meath finally got their act together this year but were also beaten in all of their super 8 games.
But if population size is the basis for reform then the whole thing needs to be looked at and not just Dublin.
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Strange post basing "success" solely at senior level.
Cork won the minor and u20 All Ireland double this year.
Kildare have 3 out of the last 5 Leinster minor titles and won the u20 All Ireland last year.
Meath's minors won Leinster in 2018 to their credit also.
In regard to Meath's super 8 performances/results, in truth making the super 8s was an achievement in itself on top of throwing away a big lead in the league final (one they should have never lost) all in all they had a good year.
Most if not all of the top clubs in Dublin have their own development officer, I think in the whole of Laois there are 5 that have to cover the whole county and that makes a massive difference. |
The reason is senior football is the stick to beat Dublin with and is the reason people Are saying Dublin’s success is ruining gaa. If they were taking Minor into it their argument would run dry.
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AKA pedantic kunt
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Het-field
Roy Keane
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Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 9:45pm |
eireland wrote:
Het-field wrote:
eireland wrote:
Het-field wrote:
Devrozex wrote:
Just had a watch of it again there on YouTube - the sort of dark arts you'd hope to get away with as a defender but definitely a free if the ref spots it. Not really sure how there is any debate around it to be honest - clearly pulls him back by the arm. |
I remember the “debate” in 2011. McStay on RTÉ is comic gold at the time. The defender himself spoke about the extra covering man, which makes zero difference. |
Later that year mcmenanin taking ridiculous for the goal, soft free to win it and not adding any extra time despite taking an age from when it was rewarded to when it was kicked. The GAA were desperate for Dublin to win it and they got their wish. Same in the 95 final Tyrone absolutely robbed. |
God, it’s been a while since I’ve heard these ones. The steps weren’t “ridiculous”, any more than the vast majority of goals scored like that. And the the extra time thing is at the discretion of the referee. You don’t add on time for every free kick taken during a game.
1995, there was no “robbing” either. |
Come out of that. Kevin MC and Murchan at the weekend blessed with the refs letting them away with it. Was 95 not the match where Redmond refused to leave the field after the sending off and dublin's winner was wide? |
Murchan’s and McManamon’s goals were very different. 9 times out of 10 McManamon’s is awarded.
The Redmond incident was a mess. It was a miscommunication, which was patently obvious at the time.
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Green Devil
Robbie Keane
Aye Kes, I've pissed me-self again
Joined: 06 Oct 2010
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Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 9:39pm |
Baldrick wrote:
reddladd wrote:
Bottom line is that if you get your act together with underage coaching etc then if your pool is 1m odd as opposed to Laois’s 60,000 then you’re going to supply a greater number of the Con O’ OCallaghans of this world. You can’t hide from the inequality Re population. |
Totally agree, but the solution to that is not simply cut Dublin into 3 or 4 but its also the almalgation of counties etc.
However i will add look at the work that Monaghan have been doing over the last number of years compared to say Kildare or Meath who have huge populations and Cork also. The performance by other Leinster counties with large populations in the qualifiers has been terrible. Meath finally got their act together this year but were also beaten in all of their super 8 games.
But if population size is the basis for reform then the whole thing needs to be looked at and not just Dublin.
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Strange post basing "success" solely at senior level.
Cork won the minor and u20 All Ireland double this year.
Kildare have 3 out of the last 5 Leinster minor titles and won the u20 All Ireland last year.
Meath's minors won Leinster in 2018 to their credit also.
In regard to Meath's super 8 performances/results, in truth making the super 8s was an achievement in itself on top of throwing away a big lead in the league final (one they should have never lost) all in all they had a good year.
Most if not all of the top clubs in Dublin have their own development officer, I think in the whole of Laois there are 5 that have to cover the whole county and that makes a massive difference.
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eireland
Ray Houghton
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Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 9:21pm |
Het-field wrote:
eireland wrote:
Het-field wrote:
Devrozex wrote:
Just had a watch of it again there on YouTube - the sort of dark arts you'd hope to get away with as a defender but definitely a free if the ref spots it. Not really sure how there is any debate around it to be honest - clearly pulls him back by the arm. |
I remember the “debate” in 2011. McStay on RTÉ is comic gold at the time. The defender himself spoke about the extra covering man, which makes zero difference. |
Later that year mcmenanin taking ridiculous for the goal, soft free to win it and not adding any extra time despite taking an age from when it was rewarded to when it was kicked. The GAA were desperate for Dublin to win it and they got their wish. Same in the 95 final Tyrone absolutely robbed. |
God, it’s been a while since I’ve heard these ones. The steps weren’t “ridiculous”, any more than the vast majority of goals scored like that. And the the extra time thing is at the discretion of the referee. You don’t add on time for every free kick taken during a game.
1995, there was no “robbing” either. |
Come out of that. Kevin MC and Murchan at the weekend blessed with the refs letting them away with it. Was 95 not the match where Redmond refused to leave the field after the sending off and dublin's winner was wide?
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Het-field
Roy Keane
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Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 5:19pm |
eireland wrote:
Het-field wrote:
Devrozex wrote:
Just had a watch of it again there on YouTube - the sort of dark arts you'd hope to get away with as a defender but definitely a free if the ref spots it. Not really sure how there is any debate around it to be honest - clearly pulls him back by the arm. |
I remember the “debate” in 2011. McStay on RTÉ is comic gold at the time. The defender himself spoke about the extra covering man, which makes zero difference. |
Later that year mcmenanin taking ridiculous for the goal, soft free to win it and not adding any extra time despite taking an age from when it was rewarded to when it was kicked. The GAA were desperate for Dublin to win it and they got their wish. Same in the 95 final Tyrone absolutely robbed. |
God, it’s been a while since I’ve heard these ones. The steps weren’t “ridiculous”, any more than the vast majority of goals scored like that. And the the extra time thing is at the discretion of the referee. You don’t add on time for every free kick taken during a game.
1995, there was no “robbing” either.
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eireland
Ray Houghton
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Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 5:16pm |
Het-field wrote:
Devrozex wrote:
Just had a watch of it again there on YouTube - the sort of dark arts you'd hope to get away with as a defender but definitely a free if the ref spots it. Not really sure how there is any debate around it to be honest - clearly pulls him back by the arm. |
I remember the “debate” in 2011. McStay on RTÉ is comic gold at the time. The defender himself spoke about the extra covering man, which makes zero difference. |
Later that year mcmenanin taking ridiculous for the goal, soft free to win it and not adding any extra time despite taking an age from when it was rewarded to when it was kicked. The GAA were desperate for Dublin to win it and they got their wish. Same in the 95 final Tyrone absolutely robbed.
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Het-field
Roy Keane
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Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 5:07pm |
Devrozex wrote:
Just had a watch of it again there on YouTube - the sort of dark arts you'd hope to get away with as a defender but definitely a free if the ref spots it. Not really sure how there is any debate around it to be honest - clearly pulls him back by the arm. |
I remember the “debate” in 2011. McStay on RTÉ is comic gold at the time. The defender himself spoke about the extra covering man, which makes zero difference.
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Devrozex
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 5:05pm |
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Just had a watch of it again there on YouTube - the sort of dark arts you'd hope to get away with as a defender but definitely a free if the ref spots it. Not really sure how there is any debate around it to be honest - clearly pulls him back by the arm.
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Het-field
Roy Keane
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Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 4:49pm |
Croftman wrote:
Het-field wrote:
eireland wrote:
Het-field wrote:
eireland wrote:
Het-field wrote:
Baldrick wrote:
Also it’s a myth to think that football was an open comp. that only happened in the 90.
70s was Dublin and Kerry, the early 80s was Kerry and late 80s was Meath and Cork.
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The 1990s was an exceptional time for both sports, and it was festooned with great players and managers. Underestimating Gavin’s influence would be an exceptional mistake. Great managers in the 1990s made the difference along with a countrywide selection of footballing and hurling greats.
Also, this decline in competitiveness at provincial level (particularly Leinster) has been ongoing well before the arrival of Jim Gavin or development funding. Dublin have had Leinster in its hands for almost 15 years, and more often than not, the road to Leinster was relatively straightforward save for a few mentions. |
The problem with Dublin is after 04 when westmeath beat them bertie had a big fund allocated to them. The level of professionalism around the team increased and they started winning Leinsters again although not always easily. The GAA openly admitted they needed a strong Dublin and leinster council obviously wanted them in the leinster semi and final to boost the coffers. So it's no surprise Dublin got so many close decisions that helped them win close matches from 05 to 09. By the time 2011 came about the conveyor of underage talent had begun and they've not lost a leinster title since.
It's all well and good saying Dublin should be getting funding to boost numbers but why did they get 16 times that of cork or Antrim when their population isn't even 3 times bigger then them. Not only are you disproportionately boosting GAA in Dublin but football is not gaining popularity as fast as it should be outside Dublin. Soccer is gaining a foothold locally in counties such as meath and Kildare amongst others.
Not Dublins fault obviously but the GAA made a right balls of a very competitive competition since the 80's. They're very lucky the hurling has gone the other way but would want to be careful they don't do to Dublin/Cork in hurling what they did to the Dubs in football. |
What close decisions though? In reality, there are little or none you can pinpoint. The 14 man win against Kildare in 2009’s final? The double digits win against Wexford in 2008? The 9 point win against Offaly in 2006.
Between 2005-2009 Dublin won most things by sheer sweat, and even then that wasn’t good enough. More often then not, their prize for winning Leinster was a QF against a failed giant, who 3 times went on to win the All Ireland that year. They won nothing easily and there was no noticeable decisions which made all the difference. Also hurling was a heavy recipient of any post 05 funding, and spending on the men’s senior team didn’t dramatically increase as a result, certainly not enough o make a difference, and most of the players playing between 05-09 were there before any funding issue arose. |
I just remember from watching on TV. Didn't whelan thump someone at the throw in around 2006 and only got a yellow? I remember watching them beat meath in 2007 and got some big decisions. Meath lad dragged down in the box no penalty, meath goal disallowed and Dublin player picked the ball off the ground. Kildare in 2011 robbed at the end when brogan was given a free. Obviously the refs will be swayed by the home crowd and the knowledge the association which hires them prefers if Dublin win.
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What is it with the Brogan free in 2011? He was clearly pulled back as he went for the ball. A simple rush of blood to the head, yes? A foul, yes? Correctly given, yes? McStay’s narrative that day, all wrong. That was a clear and obvious foul. Kildare robbed themselves. In what was their second failure against a 14 man Dublin team over two years.
The Whelan thing was 2005 and a fairly consistent approach. Remember the AI Final in 2009? Also, Dublin won that Meath game by four and had them in their pockets for most of the second half of the replay. And the disallowed goal in the first game was properly called.
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That was never a free in 2011, joke of a decision |
Yes it was. The pull back on Brogan’s shirt was blatant. You pull the shirt, a free is awarded against you.
Why was it a joke?
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Croftman
Liam Brady
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Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 4:45pm |
Het-field wrote:
eireland wrote:
Het-field wrote:
eireland wrote:
Het-field wrote:
Baldrick wrote:
Also it’s a myth to think that football was an open comp. that only happened in the 90.
70s was Dublin and Kerry, the early 80s was Kerry and late 80s was Meath and Cork.
|
The 1990s was an exceptional time for both sports, and it was festooned with great players and managers. Underestimating Gavin’s influence would be an exceptional mistake. Great managers in the 1990s made the difference along with a countrywide selection of footballing and hurling greats.
Also, this decline in competitiveness at provincial level (particularly Leinster) has been ongoing well before the arrival of Jim Gavin or development funding. Dublin have had Leinster in its hands for almost 15 years, and more often than not, the road to Leinster was relatively straightforward save for a few mentions. |
The problem with Dublin is after 04 when westmeath beat them bertie had a big fund allocated to them. The level of professionalism around the team increased and they started winning Leinsters again although not always easily. The GAA openly admitted they needed a strong Dublin and leinster council obviously wanted them in the leinster semi and final to boost the coffers. So it's no surprise Dublin got so many close decisions that helped them win close matches from 05 to 09. By the time 2011 came about the conveyor of underage talent had begun and they've not lost a leinster title since.
It's all well and good saying Dublin should be getting funding to boost numbers but why did they get 16 times that of cork or Antrim when their population isn't even 3 times bigger then them. Not only are you disproportionately boosting GAA in Dublin but football is not gaining popularity as fast as it should be outside Dublin. Soccer is gaining a foothold locally in counties such as meath and Kildare amongst others.
Not Dublins fault obviously but the GAA made a right balls of a very competitive competition since the 80's. They're very lucky the hurling has gone the other way but would want to be careful they don't do to Dublin/Cork in hurling what they did to the Dubs in football. |
What close decisions though? In reality, there are little or none you can pinpoint. The 14 man win against Kildare in 2009’s final? The double digits win against Wexford in 2008? The 9 point win against Offaly in 2006.
Between 2005-2009 Dublin won most things by sheer sweat, and even then that wasn’t good enough. More often then not, their prize for winning Leinster was a QF against a failed giant, who 3 times went on to win the All Ireland that year. They won nothing easily and there was no noticeable decisions which made all the difference. Also hurling was a heavy recipient of any post 05 funding, and spending on the men’s senior team didn’t dramatically increase as a result, certainly not enough o make a difference, and most of the players playing between 05-09 were there before any funding issue arose. |
I just remember from watching on TV. Didn't whelan thump someone at the throw in around 2006 and only got a yellow? I remember watching them beat meath in 2007 and got some big decisions. Meath lad dragged down in the box no penalty, meath goal disallowed and Dublin player picked the ball off the ground. Kildare in 2011 robbed at the end when brogan was given a free. Obviously the refs will be swayed by the home crowd and the knowledge the association which hires them prefers if Dublin win.
|
What is it with the Brogan free in 2011? He was clearly pulled back as he went for the ball. A simple rush of blood to the head, yes? A foul, yes? Correctly given, yes? McStay’s narrative that day, all wrong. That was a clear and obvious foul. Kildare robbed themselves. In what was their second failure against a 14 man Dublin team over two years.
The Whelan thing was 2005 and a fairly consistent approach. Remember the AI Final in 2009? Also, Dublin won that Meath game by four and had them in their pockets for most of the second half of the replay. And the disallowed goal in the first game was properly called.
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That was never a free in 2011, joke of a decision
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Some people just deserve a slap
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Het-field
Roy Keane
By Appointment to His Majesty The King
Joined: 08 Mar 2016
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Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 4:27pm |
eireland wrote:
Het-field wrote:
eireland wrote:
Het-field wrote:
eireland wrote:
Het-field wrote:
Baldrick wrote:
Also it’s a myth to think that football was an open comp. that only happened in the 90.
70s was Dublin and Kerry, the early 80s was Kerry and late 80s was Meath and Cork.
|
The 1990s was an exceptional time for both sports, and it was festooned with great players and managers. Underestimating Gavin’s influence would be an exceptional mistake. Great managers in the 1990s made the difference along with a countrywide selection of footballing and hurling greats.
Also, this decline in competitiveness at provincial level (particularly Leinster) has been ongoing well before the arrival of Jim Gavin or development funding. Dublin have had Leinster in its hands for almost 15 years, and more often than not, the road to Leinster was relatively straightforward save for a few mentions. |
The problem with Dublin is after 04 when westmeath beat them bertie had a big fund allocated to them. The level of professionalism around the team increased and they started winning Leinsters again although not always easily. The GAA openly admitted they needed a strong Dublin and leinster council obviously wanted them in the leinster semi and final to boost the coffers. So it's no surprise Dublin got so many close decisions that helped them win close matches from 05 to 09. By the time 2011 came about the conveyor of underage talent had begun and they've not lost a leinster title since.
It's all well and good saying Dublin should be getting funding to boost numbers but why did they get 16 times that of cork or Antrim when their population isn't even 3 times bigger then them. Not only are you disproportionately boosting GAA in Dublin but football is not gaining popularity as fast as it should be outside Dublin. Soccer is gaining a foothold locally in counties such as meath and Kildare amongst others.
Not Dublins fault obviously but the GAA made a right balls of a very competitive competition since the 80's. They're very lucky the hurling has gone the other way but would want to be careful they don't do to Dublin/Cork in hurling what they did to the Dubs in football. |
What close decisions though? In reality, there are little or none you can pinpoint. The 14 man win against Kildare in 2009’s final? The double digits win against Wexford in 2008? The 9 point win against Offaly in 2006.
Between 2005-2009 Dublin won most things by sheer sweat, and even then that wasn’t good enough. More often then not, their prize for winning Leinster was a QF against a failed giant, who 3 times went on to win the All Ireland that year. They won nothing easily and there was no noticeable decisions which made all the difference. Also hurling was a heavy recipient of any post 05 funding, and spending on the men’s senior team didn’t dramatically increase as a result, certainly not enough o make a difference, and most of the players playing between 05-09 were there before any funding issue arose. |
I just remember from watching on TV. Didn't whelan thump someone at the throw in around 2006 and only got a yellow? I remember watching them beat meath in 2007 and got some big decisions. Meath lad dragged down in the box no penalty, meath goal disallowed and Dublin player picked the ball off the ground. Kildare in 2011 robbed at the end when brogan was given a free. Obviously the refs will be swayed by the home crowd and the knowledge the association which hires them prefers if Dublin win.
|
What is it with the Brogan free in 2011? He was clearly pulled back as he went for the ball. A simple rush of blood to the head, yes? A foul, yes? Correctly given, yes? McStay’s narrative that day, all wrong. That was a clear and obvious foul. Kildare robbed themselves. In what was their second failure against a 14 man Dublin team over two years.
The Whelan thing was 2005 and a fairly consistent approach. Remember the AI Final in 2009? Also, Dublin won that Meath game by four and had them in their pockets for most of the second half of the replay. And the disallowed goal in the first game was properly called.
|
At no time was that a yellow and showed clear bias towards Dublin at a time the GAA were desperate for Dublin to win. If whelan was sent off in the first minute I'm fairly sure Laois or another county would have won Leinster in 05. |
Maybe? Maybe not. Dublin may well have won the Meath game with 14 men. You can’t say either way. Laois has their chance against Dublin and blew it. And if they were that desperate, why not the All Ireland? Why draw them Kerry and Tyrone 3/5 years between 05-09? There was no desperation.
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eireland
Ray Houghton
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Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 4:24pm |
Het-field wrote:
eireland wrote:
Het-field wrote:
eireland wrote:
Het-field wrote:
Baldrick wrote:
Also it’s a myth to think that football was an open comp. that only happened in the 90.
70s was Dublin and Kerry, the early 80s was Kerry and late 80s was Meath and Cork.
|
The 1990s was an exceptional time for both sports, and it was festooned with great players and managers. Underestimating Gavin’s influence would be an exceptional mistake. Great managers in the 1990s made the difference along with a countrywide selection of footballing and hurling greats.
Also, this decline in competitiveness at provincial level (particularly Leinster) has been ongoing well before the arrival of Jim Gavin or development funding. Dublin have had Leinster in its hands for almost 15 years, and more often than not, the road to Leinster was relatively straightforward save for a few mentions. |
The problem with Dublin is after 04 when westmeath beat them bertie had a big fund allocated to them. The level of professionalism around the team increased and they started winning Leinsters again although not always easily. The GAA openly admitted they needed a strong Dublin and leinster council obviously wanted them in the leinster semi and final to boost the coffers. So it's no surprise Dublin got so many close decisions that helped them win close matches from 05 to 09. By the time 2011 came about the conveyor of underage talent had begun and they've not lost a leinster title since.
It's all well and good saying Dublin should be getting funding to boost numbers but why did they get 16 times that of cork or Antrim when their population isn't even 3 times bigger then them. Not only are you disproportionately boosting GAA in Dublin but football is not gaining popularity as fast as it should be outside Dublin. Soccer is gaining a foothold locally in counties such as meath and Kildare amongst others.
Not Dublins fault obviously but the GAA made a right balls of a very competitive competition since the 80's. They're very lucky the hurling has gone the other way but would want to be careful they don't do to Dublin/Cork in hurling what they did to the Dubs in football. |
What close decisions though? In reality, there are little or none you can pinpoint. The 14 man win against Kildare in 2009’s final? The double digits win against Wexford in 2008? The 9 point win against Offaly in 2006.
Between 2005-2009 Dublin won most things by sheer sweat, and even then that wasn’t good enough. More often then not, their prize for winning Leinster was a QF against a failed giant, who 3 times went on to win the All Ireland that year. They won nothing easily and there was no noticeable decisions which made all the difference. Also hurling was a heavy recipient of any post 05 funding, and spending on the men’s senior team didn’t dramatically increase as a result, certainly not enough o make a difference, and most of the players playing between 05-09 were there before any funding issue arose. |
I just remember from watching on TV. Didn't whelan thump someone at the throw in around 2006 and only got a yellow? I remember watching them beat meath in 2007 and got some big decisions. Meath lad dragged down in the box no penalty, meath goal disallowed and Dublin player picked the ball off the ground. Kildare in 2011 robbed at the end when brogan was given a free. Obviously the refs will be swayed by the home crowd and the knowledge the association which hires them prefers if Dublin win.
|
What is it with the Brogan free in 2011? He was clearly pulled back as he went for the ball. A simple rush of blood to the head, yes? A foul, yes? Correctly given, yes? McStay’s narrative that day, all wrong. That was a clear and obvious foul. Kildare robbed themselves. In what was their second failure against a 14 man Dublin team over two years.
The Whelan thing was 2005 and a fairly consistent approach. Remember the AI Final in 2009? Also, Dublin won that Meath game by four and had them in their pockets for most of the second half of the replay. And the disallowed goal in the first game was properly called.
|
At no time was that a yellow and showed clear bias towards Dublin at a time the GAA were desperate for Dublin to win. If whelan was sent off in the first minute I'm fairly sure Laois or another county would have won Leinster in 05.
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Het-field
Roy Keane
By Appointment to His Majesty The King
Joined: 08 Mar 2016
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Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 4:15pm |
eireland wrote:
Het-field wrote:
eireland wrote:
Het-field wrote:
Baldrick wrote:
Also it’s a myth to think that football was an open comp. that only happened in the 90.
70s was Dublin and Kerry, the early 80s was Kerry and late 80s was Meath and Cork.
|
The 1990s was an exceptional time for both sports, and it was festooned with great players and managers. Underestimating Gavin’s influence would be an exceptional mistake. Great managers in the 1990s made the difference along with a countrywide selection of footballing and hurling greats.
Also, this decline in competitiveness at provincial level (particularly Leinster) has been ongoing well before the arrival of Jim Gavin or development funding. Dublin have had Leinster in its hands for almost 15 years, and more often than not, the road to Leinster was relatively straightforward save for a few mentions. |
The problem with Dublin is after 04 when westmeath beat them bertie had a big fund allocated to them. The level of professionalism around the team increased and they started winning Leinsters again although not always easily. The GAA openly admitted they needed a strong Dublin and leinster council obviously wanted them in the leinster semi and final to boost the coffers. So it's no surprise Dublin got so many close decisions that helped them win close matches from 05 to 09. By the time 2011 came about the conveyor of underage talent had begun and they've not lost a leinster title since.
It's all well and good saying Dublin should be getting funding to boost numbers but why did they get 16 times that of cork or Antrim when their population isn't even 3 times bigger then them. Not only are you disproportionately boosting GAA in Dublin but football is not gaining popularity as fast as it should be outside Dublin. Soccer is gaining a foothold locally in counties such as meath and Kildare amongst others.
Not Dublins fault obviously but the GAA made a right balls of a very competitive competition since the 80's. They're very lucky the hurling has gone the other way but would want to be careful they don't do to Dublin/Cork in hurling what they did to the Dubs in football. |
What close decisions though? In reality, there are little or none you can pinpoint. The 14 man win against Kildare in 2009’s final? The double digits win against Wexford in 2008? The 9 point win against Offaly in 2006.
Between 2005-2009 Dublin won most things by sheer sweat, and even then that wasn’t good enough. More often then not, their prize for winning Leinster was a QF against a failed giant, who 3 times went on to win the All Ireland that year. They won nothing easily and there was no noticeable decisions which made all the difference. Also hurling was a heavy recipient of any post 05 funding, and spending on the men’s senior team didn’t dramatically increase as a result, certainly not enough o make a difference, and most of the players playing between 05-09 were there before any funding issue arose. |
I just remember from watching on TV. Didn't whelan thump someone at the throw in around 2006 and only got a yellow? I remember watching them beat meath in 2007 and got some big decisions. Meath lad dragged down in the box no penalty, meath goal disallowed and Dublin player picked the ball off the ground. Kildare in 2011 robbed at the end when brogan was given a free. Obviously the refs will be swayed by the home crowd and the knowledge the association which hires them prefers if Dublin win.
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What is it with the Brogan free in 2011? He was clearly pulled back as he went for the ball. A simple rush of blood to the head, yes? A foul, yes? Correctly given, yes? McStay’s narrative that day, all wrong. That was a clear and obvious foul. Kildare robbed themselves. In what was their second failure against a 14 man Dublin team over two years.
The Whelan thing was 2005 and a fairly consistent approach. Remember the AI Final in 2009? Also, Dublin won that Meath game by four and had them in their pockets for most of the second half of the replay. And the disallowed goal in the first game was properly called.
Edited by Het-field - 16 Sep 2019 at 4:16pm
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eireland
Ray Houghton
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Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 4:10pm |
Het-field wrote:
eireland wrote:
Het-field wrote:
Baldrick wrote:
Also it’s a myth to think that football was an open comp. that only happened in the 90.
70s was Dublin and Kerry, the early 80s was Kerry and late 80s was Meath and Cork.
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The 1990s was an exceptional time for both sports, and it was festooned with great players and managers. Underestimating Gavin’s influence would be an exceptional mistake. Great managers in the 1990s made the difference along with a countrywide selection of footballing and hurling greats.
Also, this decline in competitiveness at provincial level (particularly Leinster) has been ongoing well before the arrival of Jim Gavin or development funding. Dublin have had Leinster in its hands for almost 15 years, and more often than not, the road to Leinster was relatively straightforward save for a few mentions. |
The problem with Dublin is after 04 when westmeath beat them bertie had a big fund allocated to them. The level of professionalism around the team increased and they started winning Leinsters again although not always easily. The GAA openly admitted they needed a strong Dublin and leinster council obviously wanted them in the leinster semi and final to boost the coffers. So it's no surprise Dublin got so many close decisions that helped them win close matches from 05 to 09. By the time 2011 came about the conveyor of underage talent had begun and they've not lost a leinster title since.
It's all well and good saying Dublin should be getting funding to boost numbers but why did they get 16 times that of cork or Antrim when their population isn't even 3 times bigger then them. Not only are you disproportionately boosting GAA in Dublin but football is not gaining popularity as fast as it should be outside Dublin. Soccer is gaining a foothold locally in counties such as meath and Kildare amongst others.
Not Dublins fault obviously but the GAA made a right balls of a very competitive competition since the 80's. They're very lucky the hurling has gone the other way but would want to be careful they don't do to Dublin/Cork in hurling what they did to the Dubs in football. |
What close decisions though? In reality, there are little or none you can pinpoint. The 14 man win against Kildare in 2009’s final? The double digits win against Wexford in 2008? The 9 point win against Offaly in 2006.
Between 2005-2009 Dublin won most things by sheer sweat, and even then that wasn’t good enough. More often then not, their prize for winning Leinster was a QF against a failed giant, who 3 times went on to win the All Ireland that year. They won nothing easily and there was no noticeable decisions which made all the difference. Also hurling was a heavy recipient of any post 05 funding, and spending on the men’s senior team didn’t dramatically increase as a result, certainly not enough o make a difference, and most of the players playing between 05-09 were there before any funding issue arose. |
I just remember from watching on TV. Didn't whelan thump someone at the throw in around 2006 and only got a yellow? I remember watching them beat meath in 2007 and got some big decisions. Meath lad dragged down in the box no penalty, meath goal disallowed and Dublin player picked the ball off the ground. Kildare in 2011 robbed at the end when brogan was given a free. Obviously the refs will be swayed by the home crowd and the knowledge the association which hires them prefers if Dublin win.
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Het-field
Roy Keane
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Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 3:33pm |
eireland wrote:
Het-field wrote:
Baldrick wrote:
Also it’s a myth to think that football was an open comp. that only happened in the 90.
70s was Dublin and Kerry, the early 80s was Kerry and late 80s was Meath and Cork.
|
The 1990s was an exceptional time for both sports, and it was festooned with great players and managers. Underestimating Gavin’s influence would be an exceptional mistake. Great managers in the 1990s made the difference along with a countrywide selection of footballing and hurling greats.
Also, this decline in competitiveness at provincial level (particularly Leinster) has been ongoing well before the arrival of Jim Gavin or development funding. Dublin have had Leinster in its hands for almost 15 years, and more often than not, the road to Leinster was relatively straightforward save for a few mentions. |
The problem with Dublin is after 04 when westmeath beat them bertie had a big fund allocated to them. The level of professionalism around the team increased and they started winning Leinsters again although not always easily. The GAA openly admitted they needed a strong Dublin and leinster council obviously wanted them in the leinster semi and final to boost the coffers. So it's no surprise Dublin got so many close decisions that helped them win close matches from 05 to 09. By the time 2011 came about the conveyor of underage talent had begun and they've not lost a leinster title since.
It's all well and good saying Dublin should be getting funding to boost numbers but why did they get 16 times that of cork or Antrim when their population isn't even 3 times bigger then them. Not only are you disproportionately boosting GAA in Dublin but football is not gaining popularity as fast as it should be outside Dublin. Soccer is gaining a foothold locally in counties such as meath and Kildare amongst others.
Not Dublins fault obviously but the GAA made a right balls of a very competitive competition since the 80's. They're very lucky the hurling has gone the other way but would want to be careful they don't do to Dublin/Cork in hurling what they did to the Dubs in football. |
What close decisions though? In reality, there are little or none you can pinpoint. The 14 man win against Kildare in 2009’s final? The double digits win against Wexford in 2008? The 9 point win against Offaly in 2006.
Between 2005-2009 Dublin won most things by sheer sweat, and even then that wasn’t good enough. More often then not, their prize for winning Leinster was a QF against a failed giant, who 3 times went on to win the All Ireland that year. They won nothing easily and there was no noticeable decisions which made all the difference. Also hurling was a heavy recipient of any post 05 funding, and spending on the men’s senior team didn’t dramatically increase as a result, certainly not enough o make a difference, and most of the players playing between 05-09 were there before any funding issue arose.
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eireland
Ray Houghton
Joined: 12 Feb 2016
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Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 3:24pm |
Het-field wrote:
Baldrick wrote:
Also it’s a myth to think that football was an open comp. that only happened in the 90.
70s was Dublin and Kerry, the early 80s was Kerry and late 80s was Meath and Cork.
|
The 1990s was an exceptional time for both sports, and it was festooned with great players and managers. Underestimating Gavin’s influence would be an exceptional mistake. Great managers in the 1990s made the difference along with a countrywide selection of footballing and hurling greats.
Also, this decline in competitiveness at provincial level (particularly Leinster) has been ongoing well before the arrival of Jim Gavin or development funding. Dublin have had Leinster in its hands for almost 15 years, and more often than not, the road to Leinster was relatively straightforward save for a few mentions. |
The problem with Dublin is after 04 when westmeath beat them bertie had a big fund allocated to them. The level of professionalism around the team increased and they started winning Leinsters again although not always easily. The GAA openly admitted they needed a strong Dublin and leinster council obviously wanted them in the leinster semi and final to boost the coffers. So it's no surprise Dublin got so many close decisions that helped them win close matches from 05 to 09. By the time 2011 came about the conveyor of underage talent had begun and they've not lost a leinster title since.
It's all well and good saying Dublin should be getting funding to boost numbers but why did they get 16 times that of cork or Antrim when their population isn't even 3 times bigger then them. Not only are you disproportionately boosting GAA in Dublin but football is not gaining popularity as fast as it should be outside Dublin. Soccer is gaining a foothold locally in counties such as meath and Kildare amongst others.
Not Dublins fault obviously but the GAA made a right balls of a very competitive competition since the 80's. They're very lucky the hurling has gone the other way but would want to be careful they don't do to Dublin/Cork in hurling what they did to the Dubs in football.
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Het-field
Roy Keane
By Appointment to His Majesty The King
Joined: 08 Mar 2016
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Posted: 16 Sep 2019 at 12:18pm |
Baldrick wrote:
Also it’s a myth to think that football was an open comp. that only happened in the 90.
70s was Dublin and Kerry, the early 80s was Kerry and late 80s was Meath and Cork.
|
The 1990s was an exceptional time for both sports, and it was festooned with great players and managers. Underestimating Gavin’s influence would be an exceptional mistake. Great managers in the 1990s made the difference along with a countrywide selection of footballing and hurling greats.
Also, this decline in competitiveness at provincial level (particularly Leinster) has been ongoing well before the arrival of Jim Gavin or development funding. Dublin have had Leinster in its hands for almost 15 years, and more often than not, the road to Leinster was relatively straightforward save for a few mentions.
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