La Liga thread. |
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counterlock
Davey Langan Joined: 07 Feb 2013 Status: Offline Points: 917 |
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It might be worth looking into how your bullet proof UEFA coeeficient source is calculated especially since no weighting is given to actually lifting the cup - you know, things fans actually care about. Rather than looking at something that some administrator in UEFA came up, look at the results, actual tangible proof of a teams performance. English teams have come up against spanish teams in the champions league 16 times in the last 5 years (knockout stages). W 6 L 10 Edited by counterlock - 18 Aug 2022 at 2:29pm |
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doherty
Jack Charlton Teenage Kicks, so hard to beat Joined: 30 Mar 2015 Status: Offline Points: 7715 |
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IMO Real Madrid are still the 'biggest' club in the world. Maybe not in financial terms although im sure they are right up there but in general terms. When i think of the ultimate club you could play for i only come to 1 conclusion. Not Man City or Liverpool. No amount of money can buy that sort of prestige.
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I love beer gardens
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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My point was that previously, had any Spanish club offered even equal terms to Sporting/Nunes/Mendes, never mind better ones, that's where the player would likely have gone. For Spain was traditionally the market of choice for promising young Portugese players, for obvious reasons. But increasingly we've seen such players go to England, since with the exception of RM (and Barca?) Spanish clubs are struggling to compete these days. Even against a moderate club like Wolves.
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Cabra Hoop
Roy Keane Joined: 06 Feb 2012 Location: Royal County Status: Offline Points: 10841 |
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" BFC always gives me a laugh........ "
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BrendanD88
Roy Keane 99% of my posts are emojis Joined: 29 Mar 2013 Location: Co Down Status: Offline Points: 10018 |
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Nottingham Forest have spent over £100m on transfers this summer I’m sure their fans would put that on a par with winning the European Cup twice.
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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If you have a better way of measuring it, then let's see it. In the meantime, the respected and independent Bert Kassie is happy to quote UEFA's club coefficienet ratings, in fact he even shows how UEFA calculate them:
My point being that when you look at all the factors, English clubs have been more successful overal in Europe over the last 5 years than those of Spain or any other country. That much is pretty incontestable, I think.
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counterlock
Davey Langan Joined: 07 Feb 2013 Status: Offline Points: 917 |
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It has been pretty consistent in the Champions league
Europa league much closer, but no gap exists with 5 a piece.
How is it it incontestable, when a team from Spain has won 6 of the possible 11 trophies, where as England has 3.
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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Of course they are and I have neveer denied it. Nor would I bet against their continuing that position in years to come. But this is the "La Liga" thread, and my argument is that while RM have maintained their previous preeminent position iin world football, the rest of the Spanish clubs have fallen further and further behind, both domeestically and in Europe. In other words, La Liga increasingly lacks the strength in depth of the EPL. Which is why the latter is increasingly attracting the best players and coaches, also the biggest crowds, the best facilities, the widest foreign interest (TV and media etc) and the wealthiest foreign investors, all leading to by far the highest financial wealth. And on the basis that the EPL aren't likely to go on wasting that waealth forever, that explains why RM, Barca and Juve are desperate to introduce a European Super League. Worse still, such is the strength of the EPL that they felt compelled to invite English clubs to make up half of the original 12 founding member places. And let's be honest, they woiuldn't have done that if they could have avoided it, would they?
Edited by Territorial - 18 Aug 2022 at 2:59pm |
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doherty
Jack Charlton Teenage Kicks, so hard to beat Joined: 30 Mar 2015 Status: Offline Points: 7715 |
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Your talking purely money tho. In the last decade or so you have Barca Real Madrid Sevilla Athletico Madrid and Villarreal all winning either the Champions League or Europa League. As some other posters have pointed out its about winning things. Your point is a little muddled up if you ask me.
Edited by doherty - 18 Aug 2022 at 3:07pm |
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I love beer gardens
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Roberto Baggio
Robbie Keane UNBELIEVABLE JEFF Joined: 28 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 37344 |
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Hardly among their best players considering they were leaving as they were bit part players
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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Then how UEFA's coefficients, er, deficient? In the end, you're talking about knockout football and that has a random element to it, for example merely counting triophy wins, rather than overall performance, especially when you have a dominant club like RM to skew the figures. I could poiint to the fact of England having had 5 separate EC/CL winners, plus another 4 separate runners-up, something which no other country comes remotely close to. But answer me this. If Spanish football is still so dominant in Eurpean terms as you claim, then why are RM, Barca and Atletico at the very forefront of efforts to dismantlle the current European competition system and replace it with one of their own which, inter alia, would guarantee them permanent membership, without fear of relegation?
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counterlock
Davey Langan Joined: 07 Feb 2013 Status: Offline Points: 917 |
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The UEFA coefficient gives you as many points for qualifying out of the
group as it does for winning the semi final and final. Which as a fan
would you prefer?
You could point that out, but specifically you had mentioned that you only wanted to talk about the last few years.
I've not made any claims, I've pointed out results. Wins - specifically when they count. Weren't there 6 English teams looking to enter the super league? Why are they so many premier league teams looking to enter it if it is as awash with money. Are they worried about missing out on that coveted top four trophy? |
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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Once again, I would point out that this is the La Liga thread. And notwiithstanding RM's success, I am arguing that in relative terms, La Liga has fallen behind the EPL on playijng standards in recent years, and imo looks likely to fall even further behind. Which actually partly explains why an individual club in RM can continue to be successful in Europe i.e. with their own league title pretty much won by Xmas, they can concentrate on Europe from January onwards. Nor do they ever have to worry abour qualifying for the CL each year, unlike eg Spurs, Arsenal or Man Utd. Similarly, clubs like Sevilla and Villareal don't even try to copmpete
in La Liga these days, meaning they can devote all their resorces
towards Europe. On top of which, it takes time to build up a European pedigree, as evidenced by how long it took eg Man U to win the CL under Fergie. Similarly Man City under Pep have had to build gradually towardscompeting in Europe. But they're becoming ever closer, even while also winning the bulk of the trophies in England. As they say in The City, "The trend is your friend". |
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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I've asked you for an alternative, scientific method for measuring these things, instead you've just cherrypicked a few elements to support your case. Meanwhile, as a Spurs fan, I'd much rather my team won the EPL than the CL. I suspect the majority of my fellow Spurs fans feel similarly.
Happy with that?
That La Liga is a stronger league than the EPL, both in terms of playing standards, depth, support and interest?
There weren't "6 English teams" [sic] looking to enter the super league. Rather, three or four foreign owners of English clubs were persuaded it would be a good idea, with another couple going along for fear of missing out. But immediately the full implications of the scheme were revealed, those clubs' executives, management, players and (crucially) supporters all demonstrated against it. Meaning the real question is, why are RM and Barca (and Juve) still persisiting with it, when England, Germany, France and (most of) Italy are no longer interested? Smacks of utter desperation to me. Edited by Territorial - 18 Aug 2022 at 4:01pm |
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counterlock
Davey Langan Joined: 07 Feb 2013 Status: Offline Points: 917 |
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I think we'll have to agree to disagree on it Terri. I measure success by actually lifting trophies.
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Roberto Baggio
Robbie Keane UNBELIEVABLE JEFF Joined: 28 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 37344 |
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The same people who were saying the Bundesliga is the best in the world a few years ago now saying its La Liga Come on lads, the tans aren't going to come back over and take over your town if you call a spade a spade. The EPL has been the best in the world for the last few years
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Cabra Hoop
Roy Keane Joined: 06 Feb 2012 Location: Royal County Status: Offline Points: 10841 |
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" BFC always gives me a laugh........ "
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doherty
Jack Charlton Teenage Kicks, so hard to beat Joined: 30 Mar 2015 Status: Offline Points: 7715 |
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It depends on what you define the best league in the world tho. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, different styles etc. You would get bored of you just watched 1 of them all the time. Do any of them have to be defined as the best? I would suggest not. I enjoy all the top 5 leagues. Probably the Bundesliga would be my least favourite to watch.
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I love beer gardens
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