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Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strazdas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 12:55pm
These qualifying campaigns are a hard slog, especially for the non top tier sides. Performances can be all over the place, you're in a constant battle just to get the points. Trying to judge us as a team based on how we played against Gibraltar is ludicrous stuff, you're not going to learn too much in a game like that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 12:51pm
Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Here's some perspective from results against the minnows in our previous successful qualifying campaigns.

Euro 88 Ireland 2 Luxembourg 1 after going one nil down. 
WC 90 Ireland 2 Malta 0 (We'd beaten them 8-0 six years before). 
WC94 Beat both Albania and Lithuania 2 0 at home. 
WC 02 Ireland 3 Andorra 1 after going one down. 
Euro 12 Ireland 3 Andorra 1. 
Euro 16 We put Gibraltar to the sword but struggled against Georgia.

We've been having games where we struggle against the minnows in successful campaigns as long as I remember and with far better teams, It didn't prevent us raising our game against the better teams. All about the 3 remaining games against the Swiss and Danes.

Lichtenstein in 1995 and San Marino in 2007 can be easily forgotten. Taking 30 minutes to score against Lichtenstein in 1997, almost dropping points in Malta in 1999 after taking a 2 goal lead. Not scoring more than 5 in a single game for over 30 years. The game in Astana in 2012, the list goes on and on.

And that doesn’t even mention the games against relative minows like Cyprus, Albania etc in the recent past.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drumcondra 69er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 12:51pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Here's some perspective from results against the minnows in our previous successful qualifying campaigns.

Euro 88 Ireland 2 Luxembourg 1 after going one nil down. 
WC 90 Ireland 2 Malta 0 (We'd beaten them 8-0 six years before). 
WC94 Beat both Albania and Lithuania 2 0 at home. 
WC 02 Ireland 3 Andorra 1 after going one down. 
Euro 12 Ireland 3 Andorra 1. 
Euro 16 We put Gibraltar to the sword but struggled against Georgia.

We've been having games where we struggle against the minnows in successful campaigns as long as I remember and with far better teams, It didn't prevent us raising our game against the better teams. All about the 3 remaining games against the Swiss and Danes.
The problem isn’t really that we struggled to beat Gibraltar, it is more that we really aren’t creating chances. We have had two home games against weaker opposition and while we dominated possession, we created very little. We also created little in Gibraltar and of the four games played, Randolph has had to prove his worth in three of them.


We created enough chances to put 4 or 5 on Gibraltar despite not playing well. Two goals, McGoldrick off the post, McGoldrick when he seemed to be caught between cushioning it towards McClean or putting his foot through it, Hogan when he didn't connect with the header. Pretty sure there's a couple more I can't think off off the top of my head.

Against Denmark we had the goal and the two chances where McClean simply needed to square the ball rather than take the shot on. We're creating far more than we did under MON. It's taking them that's the problem.


Edited by Drumcondra 69er - 12 Jun 2019 at 12:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drumcondra 69er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by JohnSwift JohnSwift wrote:

Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Here's some perspective from results against the minnows in our previous successful qualifying campaigns.

Euro 88 Ireland 2 Luxembourg 1 after going one nil down. 
WC 90 Ireland 2 Malta 0 (We'd beaten them 8-0 six years before). 
WC94 Beat both Albania and Lithuania 2 0 at home. 
WC 02 Ireland 3 Andorra 1 after going one down. 
Euro 12 Ireland 3 Andorra 1. 
Euro 16 We put Gibraltar to the sword but struggled against Georgia.

We've been having games where we struggle against the minnows in successful campaigns as long as I remember and with far better teams, It didn't prevent us raising our game against the better teams. All about the 3 remaining games against the Swiss and Danes.

Fully agree with this.  Another fixture worth mentioning is Ireland v Faroe Islands in October 2004.  Brian Kerr had a team which included Roy Keane, Robbie Keane, Damien Duff, Stephen Carr and Steve Finnan.  The Irish team had drawn in Paris four days earlier, but only beat the Faroes 2-0 at home.  One of the goals was a penalty.  If that Irish team hadn't dropped points against Israel and lost at home to France, they were pretty close to qualifying.

Correct. There's loads of examples from unsuccessful campaigns as well but I was just looking at the ones we qualified out of. In fact, in that campaign if we hadn't thrown away leads home and away against Israel then we'd have topped the group even with the loss to France.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by JohnSwift JohnSwift wrote:

Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Here's some perspective from results against the minnows in our previous successful qualifying campaigns.

Euro 88 Ireland 2 Luxembourg 1 after going one nil down. 
WC 90 Ireland 2 Malta 0 (We'd beaten them 8-0 six years before). 
WC94 Beat both Albania and Lithuania 2 0 at home. 
WC 02 Ireland 3 Andorra 1 after going one down. 
Euro 12 Ireland 3 Andorra 1. 
Euro 16 We put Gibraltar to the sword but struggled against Georgia.

We've been having games where we struggle against the minnows in successful campaigns as long as I remember and with far better teams, It didn't prevent us raising our game against the better teams. All about the 3 remaining games against the Swiss and Danes.

Fully agree with this.  Another fixture worth mentioning is Ireland v Faroe Islands in October 2004.  Brian Kerr had a team which included Roy Keane, Robbie Keane, Damien Duff, Stephen Carr and Steve Finnan.  The Irish team had drawn in Paris four days earlier, but only beat the Faroes 2-0 at home.  One of the goals was a penalty.  If that Irish team hadn't dropped points against Israel and lost at home to France, they were pretty close to qualifying.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 12:45pm
Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Here's some perspective from results against the minnows in our previous successful qualifying campaigns.

Euro 88 Ireland 2 Luxembourg 1 after going one nil down. 
WC 90 Ireland 2 Malta 0 (We'd beaten them 8-0 six years before). 
WC94 Beat both Albania and Lithuania 2 0 at home. 
WC 02 Ireland 3 Andorra 1 after going one down. 
Euro 12 Ireland 3 Andorra 1. 
Euro 16 We put Gibraltar to the sword but struggled against Georgia.

We've been having games where we struggle against the minnows in successful campaigns as long as I remember and with far better teams, It didn't prevent us raising our game against the better teams. All about the 3 remaining games against the Swiss and Danes.
The problem isn’t really that we struggled to beat Gibraltar, it is more that we really aren’t creating chances. We have had two home games against weaker opposition and while we dominated possession, we created very little. We also created little in Gibraltar and of the four games played, Randolph has had to prove his worth in three of them.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnSwift Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Here's some perspective from results against the minnows in our previous successful qualifying campaigns.

Euro 88 Ireland 2 Luxembourg 1 after going one nil down. 
WC 90 Ireland 2 Malta 0 (We'd beaten them 8-0 six years before). 
WC94 Beat both Albania and Lithuania 2 0 at home. 
WC 02 Ireland 3 Andorra 1 after going one down. 
Euro 12 Ireland 3 Andorra 1. 
Euro 16 We put Gibraltar to the sword but struggled against Georgia.

We've been having games where we struggle against the minnows in successful campaigns as long as I remember and with far better teams, It didn't prevent us raising our game against the better teams. All about the 3 remaining games against the Swiss and Danes.

Fully agree with this.  Another fixture worth mentioning is Ireland v Faroe Islands in October 2004.  Brian Kerr had a team which included Roy Keane, Robbie Keane, Damien Duff, Stephen Carr and Steve Finnan.  The Irish team had drawn in Paris four days earlier, but only beat the Faroes 2-0 at home.  One of the goals was a penalty.  If that Irish team hadn't dropped points against Israel and lost at home to France, they were pretty close to qualifying.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donegalman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Here's some perspective from results against the minnows in our previous successful qualifying campaigns.

Euro 88 Ireland 2 Luxembourg 1 after going one nil down. 
WC 90 Ireland 2 Malta 0 (We'd beaten them 8-0 six years before). 
WC94 Beat both Albania and Lithuania 2 0 at home. 
WC 02 Ireland 3 Andorra 1 after going one down. 
Euro 12 Ireland 3 Andorra 1. 
Euro 16 We put Gibraltar to the sword but struggled against Georgia.

We've been having games where we struggle against the minnows in successful campaigns as long as I remember and with far better teams, It didn't prevent us raising our game against the better teams. All about the 3 remaining games against the Swiss and Danes.
I know the last campaign wasn’t successful but we finished 2nd having only drawn away to Georgia, 3 draws against the top 3 seeds at home and our results against Moldova were far from spectacular 3-1 away and 2-0 at home.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drumcondra 69er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 12:32pm
Here's some perspective from results against the minnows in our previous successful qualifying campaigns.

Euro 88 Ireland 2 Luxembourg 1 after going one nil down. 
WC 90 Ireland 2 Malta 0 (We'd beaten them 8-0 six years before). 
WC94 Beat both Albania and Lithuania 2 0 at home. 
WC 02 Ireland 3 Andorra 1 after going one down. 
Euro 12 Ireland 3 Andorra 1. 
Euro 16 We put Gibraltar to the sword but struggled against Georgia.

We've been having games where we struggle against the minnows in successful campaigns as long as I remember and with far better teams, It didn't prevent us raising our game against the better teams. All about the 3 remaining games against the Swiss and Danes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 12:27pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Here's some perspective.

We beat Gibraltar H&A, Georgia H and drew away to Danes.

O'Neill did all that with a lot better goal difference

But with a better spread of players.

What is forgotten is that we had a reasonable slate of players under MON, and players like Brady and McClean were performing to a higher level. I accept we had injuries at times, but I feel MM had major remedial work to do to actually bring us up to any sort of standard.
Yeah totally agree. It's funny tho, you can look at the exact same results and say 
(a) Maybe O'Neill was right, we don't have the players. We only hockied Gibraltar twice because we had a top class goalscorer back then
(b) We have 10 points from 12 now, flying it in the group, glad we ditched O'Neill.

I agree with Baldrick, we know nothing from what we've done so far. Ourselves/Danes/Swiss need to keep beating the minnows, then take something from each other. The only impact so far is if it happened to end up we all beat the minnows and draw with each other, our GD is likely to be awful compared to Swiss/Danes
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Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

The only results of significance in this group so far are the Swiss winning in Georgia and ourselves and the Swiss drawing with Denmark. 

The major games in the group are yet to happen and ourselves and the Danes can’t slip up in Georgia.  

We will know a lot more after September.  

However it has been lucky that Mick has basically had a couple of friendlies and an away trip to denmark to bed in.  
 
Agree with this. We got a very good draw with Denmark and did what was expected of us in the other games- maximum points. It has given Mick a chance to bed in and we have a settled back 5 now which is important and a few lads bedded in like McGoldrick, Hourihane and Stevens. The Swiss game is massive but we should be confident of getting a draw at least.
Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stickittotheman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 11:10am
Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Here's some perspective.

We beat Gibraltar H&A, Georgia H and drew away to Danes.

O'Neill did all that with a lot better goal difference
 
Robbie Keane scored 5 goals in the games against Gibraltar.
Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drumcondra 69er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 10:17am
Originally posted by Maccatacca Maccatacca wrote:

Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Here's some perspective.

We beat Gibraltar H&A, Georgia H and drew away to Danes.

O'Neill did all that with a lot better goal difference

Did he??? I don’t think losing 5-1 at home is any good for the oul goal difference. 

McCarthy hasn't played Denmark at home yet, to be fair.

It's still a bit of an irrelevant point though given the time that's elapsed since the last Gibraltar games, changes in personell etc. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maccatacca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 10:09am
Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Here's some perspective.

We beat Gibraltar H&A, Georgia H and drew away to Danes.

O'Neill did all that with a lot better goal difference

Did he??? I don’t think losing 5-1 at home is any good for the oul goal difference. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fruice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 10:06am
Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

One thing on the playoffs: as everyone knows, we basically need to be in the eight best teams from the Nations League who have not qualified, if we are to make the playoffs. If we are ninth (i.e. if there are eight teams from the 22 above us who have not qualified) then we do not even make the playoffs. That being the case, let's look at those 22 teams. We need 15 of them to qualify automatically for us to make the playoffs, what with us being ranked 23rd in the Nations League overall ranking. Given the proviso that a league winning team in League C cannot be made to face a team from a higher league in a playoff, and given the fact one of those four is bound to fail (the Scots are currently in a poor position, as indeed are Serbia and Norway), we have to be in the top eight teams who do not qualify automatically, if we want a playoff place, as the League C playoffs are not going to save us.

Group A: England and the Czech Republic are both in prime position. They should both qualify automatically and have started the campaign well. Odds on both are about 90%, with about 10% on only one, 0% on neither.
Group B: Portugal and Ukraine. Ukraine have 10 points from four games, same as ourselves, but against tougher opposition. Portugal have 2 from 2 games and could find themselves in a battle, but Ukraine's 5-0 win over Serbia definitely helps. They should finish top two but there's a way to go. Odds on both are about 85%, with about 15% on one, 0% on neither.
Group C: Netherlands and Germany. The Netherlands don't have a lot of wiggle room left, to be honest. They need to beat Belarus away, Estonia home and away and get four points off Northern Ireland, in all likelihood. However, they are a decent side, so it's marginally in their favour, but they do need a lot, especially if they lose to Germany again. The Germans will steamroller their way through the group. Odds are about 75% on both, about 25% on one, 0% on neither.

Let's pause at that and say that at least four of the above six teams will qualify automatically, probably five, maybe even six. Five is the probable number.

Group D is our group. If we don't qualify, it will be because Switzerland and Denmark have, adding two more to the ranks above, bringing it to probably seven.

Group E: Croatia and Wales. This is where things start to look decidedly hairier. Wales are on a down slope, and arguably the Croatians are too. Slovakia have played some of their tougher games, and the Hungarians have beaten both Wales and Croatia at home. There's a chance neither of the top two seeds will do it here. I'd say the odds are only about 10% on both of them making it at this stage, 70% on one of them making it and 20% on neither.
Group F: Spain and Sweden. Both teams are in a decent position but it could all come down to Sweden's trip to Romania in November. I'd say the odds are about 60% on both making it, 40% on one, 0% on neither.
Group G: Poland and Austria. Poland have a 100% record including a couple of tricky away games under their belt and look reasonably secure, but Israel could be the thorn in the side for Austria. I'd say the odds are about 50% on both making it, 50% on only one.

At this stage, that probably pushes the number towards eleven of the first and second seeded teams from groups A to G making it, as four of the above six should make it.

Group H: France and Iceland. This is a straightforward two from three group, in all likelihood, with Turkey. That being the case, I'd say it's 50% for both and 50% for just one of the two to qualify.
Group I: Belgium and Russia. They look home and hosed, given how poor the Scots have been to date. I think it is the likeliest to have two seeds, something like 90%/10%/0%.
Group J: Italy and Bosnia. Bosnia have been a rabble, Italy are unbeaten. I'd say it's something like 5%/95%/5%.

That's adding on at least four teams likely to make it. That pushes it up to fifteen out of the twenty two, leaving us at a bit of risk of only fourteen of them actually qualifying automatically. That happens and there's no playoff.

There's no room for complacency and no reason to assume we will get a playoff, looking at how the other groups are currently panning out.
Some post Dave fair play for putting the time in.
Just to confirm we need 15 teams ahead of us to qualify automatically to ensure we get a playoff if we don't finish in the top 2?
Also as things stand how many of the teams ahead of us in Nations league rankings in the automatic  qualifying positions?( ignore games in Hand etc just to get a rough idea)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 10:04am
Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Here's some perspective.

We beat Gibraltar H&A, Georgia H and drew away to Danes.

O'Neill did all that with a lot better goal difference

But with a better spread of players.

What is forgotten is that we had a reasonable slate of players under MON, and players like Brady and McClean were performing to a higher level. I accept we had injuries at times, but I feel MM had major remedial work to do to actually bring us up to any sort of standard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 10:03am
The only results of significance in this group so far are the Swiss winning in Georgia and ourselves and the Swiss drawing with Denmark. 

The major games in the group are yet to happen and ourselves and the Danes can’t slip up in Georgia.  

We will know a lot more after September.  

However it has been lucky that Mick has basically had a couple of friendlies and an away trip to denmark to bed in.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 10:00am
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Lenny82 Lenny82 wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

A bit of perspective lads, Armenia beat Greece.

USA beat Thailand 11-0 in the Women's World Cup.
It finished 13-0. Even more perspective.

LOL
Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
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