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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 2022 at 10:56am
Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by 50%lesssugar&salt 50%lesssugar&salt wrote:

Originally posted by Eoink21 Eoink21 wrote:

The Sunday Indo gave Tommy Conlon two pages of a spread to tell us all that Nathan should be centre midfield for Ireland. Seemed a bit much. 

Yeah, basically saying SK should give him a run in centre midfield against Norway to see how it goes. From watching Collins against Armenia, I would imagine he would love a run out in midfield! 

Sensationally stupid idea, w2f does tommy conlon actually know about football? Genuine question? Was he ever involved at any professional level? Nathan Collins is a very promising CB, let's just let him get on with that maybe!
Paul McGrath. Was it  a sensationally stupid idea? WTF would Jack Charlton have known anyway?
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I think when we have Cullen and Molumby fit then no need.
But wouldn't rule given Collins or one of the other CBs a go there to see how they got on. 
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Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

I'm sceptical of moving players out of their best position, and there's certainly no guarantee it would work - but I can't say I understand the absolute disgust to the suggestion that we might try it at some stage in a friendly. Pretty low risk endeavour tbh.

As I have said in the other thread, I just started - the time for experimentation like this is over - We have 2 friendlies left before things kick off in earnest. Playing CBs in midfield in a team trying to play football isnt how I'd make use of them.

Collins is 20 years old, I reckon there'll be quite a few opportunities to try it before he hangs up his boots?
We're decent enough..
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Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

I'm sceptical of moving players out of their best position, and there's certainly no guarantee it would work - but I can't say I understand the absolute disgust to the suggestion that we might try it at some stage in a friendly. Pretty low risk endeavour tbh.

As I have said in the other thread, I just started - the time for experimentation like this is over - We have 2 friendlies left before things kick off in earnest. Playing CBs in midfield in a team trying to play football isnt how I'd make use of them.

Collins is 20 years old, I reckon there'll be quite a few opportunities to try it before he hangs up his boots?

Aggressive front foot aerially dominant centre half - in the same way as I wouldnt advocate moving Van Dijk into Liverpool's midfield, I wouldnt advocate moving Collins there either. If we were to do it at some point in the future due to an injury crisis or whatever, then O'Shea and/or Omobamidele look more suited to the role. Collins run and finish vs Ukraine seems to have blinded people to his actual ability on the ball and hush, dare I say it, he got at least 1, if not 2 lucky shin bounces along the way there!


Edited by John Nice - 03 Oct 2022 at 12:23pm
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Most of Tommy Conlon’s articles are fairly bad but I do think this worth considering. Burnley fans last year also proposed this in an effort to get him into their team when Mee came back. Currently we have lots of centre halves and playing three of them at the back doesn’t over tax any of them. Omobamidele, Coleman, Duffy all can do a job in there while bringing Collins who has bags of ability and physical presence into cm could be an option. Hourihan and Hendrick are current back ups so I defo would like to see SK look at other options. As mentioned by many posters Lawro, McGrath all did brilliant for us similarly…

Edited by SeanC - 03 Oct 2022 at 5:21pm
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Why in the name of jaysus would you take potentially our best player, one of only a few playing week in / out of highest level and play him out of position??? Its absolute madness.
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Yes, this is absolutely nuts. Reminds me of when people wanted Doherty at right wing in a 4-3-3. But not hugely surprising from Conlon. 
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I read Conlon's article and thought it was well-written and well-argued.  

Collins is clearly an outstanding player and what's to say he can't play in a more involved position.  

As some have pointed out above, it's worked before.  

It's certainly worthy of consideration in the context of the lop-sided nature of our squad's current resources.

Will depend very much on the player - whether he has had much or any experience there before.  He's still extremely young and developing as a player.  Stephen Ward played as a striker at his age for example - and was signed by premier league club where he even scored a few as a striker (a great tip for fantasy football afficianados back in the day LOL)!




Edited by Luis Amor Rodriguez - 03 Oct 2022 at 10:35pm
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Collins is sleep walking at cb where it’s easy for him (in a three) and we have lots of options who could fit in there but zero options for cm. If he’s our best player then get him more involved in cm. If you don’t think that’s worth a look then fine but get used to Hourahan & Hendrick slotting in there to slow things down, get by passed and give the ball away. Armenia was a wake up call that we need better cm options. Completely logical.

Edited by SeanC - 04 Oct 2022 at 8:53am
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Originally posted by SeanC SeanC wrote:

Collins is sleep walking at cb where it’s easy for him (in a three) and we have lots of options who could fit in there but zero options for cm. If he’s our best player then get him more involved in cm. If you don’t think that’s worth a look then fine but get used to Hourahan & Hendrick slotting in there to slow things down, get by passed and give the ball away. Armenia was a wake up call that we need better cm options. Completely logical.

If its so f**king easy for him at CB, he would do well to try and stop Armenia scoring 2 goals in 5 minutes. The skill set required for a CDM is entirely different to that required for a CB, you have to take the ball on the half turn constantly, gauge when to try and progress the ball, not dive in, not give away frees on the edge of the box, first touch has to be perfect. It's not like Charlton's time where every ball would be hoofed up the pitch over their heads, so the game was all played in front of the CBs and the CDMs. Under a modern press, Collins would struggle big time. Anyway I dont even know why I'm responding to this - we have already altered our system to accommodate 3 CBs, now lads want to move our (potentially) best one into CDM, utter madness and not logical at all.
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Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by SeanC SeanC wrote:

Collins is sleep walking at cb where it’s easy for him (in a three) and we have lots of options who could fit in there but zero options for cm. If he’s our best player then get him more involved in cm. If you don’t think that’s worth a look then fine but get used to Hourahan & Hendrick slotting in there to slow things down, get by passed and give the ball away. Armenia was a wake up call that we need better cm options. Completely logical.

If its so f**king easy for him at CB, he would do well to try and stop Armenia scoring 2 goals in 5 minutes. The skill set required for a CDM is entirely different to that required for a CB, you have to take the ball on the half turn constantly, gauge when to try and progress the ball, not dive in, not give away frees on the edge of the box, first touch has to be perfect. It's not like Charlton's time where every ball would be hoofed up the pitch over their heads, so the game was all played in front of the CBs and the CDMs. Under a modern press, Collins would struggle big time. Anyway I dont even know why I'm responding to this - we have already altered our system to accommodate 3 CBs, now lads want to move our (potentially) best one into CDM, utter madness and not logical at all.
No one does.
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I actually agree that Collins could be tried at CM. We have plenty of cover at CB. We have very limited options in the middle. He has every attribute required for CM and he is a leader on the pitch. 

Declan Rice is a good example of a player who moved from CB to CM successfully. 

It’s absolutely not crazy to consider trying Collins in CM against Norway and Malta. 
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Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by SeanC SeanC wrote:

Collins is sleep walking at cb where it’s easy for him (in a three) and we have lots of options who could fit in there but zero options for cm. If he’s our best player then get him more involved in cm. If you don’t think that’s worth a look then fine but get used to Hourahan & Hendrick slotting in there to slow things down, get by passed and give the ball away. Armenia was a wake up call that we need better cm options. Completely logical.

If its so f**king easy for him at CB, he would do well to try and stop Armenia scoring 2 goals in 5 minutes. The skill set required for a CDM is entirely different to that required for a CB, you have to take the ball on the half turn constantly, gauge when to try and progress the ball, not dive in, not give away frees on the edge of the box, first touch has to be perfect. It's not like Charlton's time where every ball would be hoofed up the pitch over their heads, so the game was all played in front of the CBs and the CDMs. Under a modern press, Collins would struggle big time. Anyway I dont even know why I'm responding to this - we have already altered our system to accommodate 3 CBs, now lads want to move our (potentially) best one into CDM, utter madness and not logical at all.
I'd put that down to boredom to be honest, get him in Cm and build a team around him. We've plenty of cover at CB
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Originally posted by musicinmouth musicinmouth wrote:

I actually agree that Collins could be tried at CM. We have plenty of cover at CB. We have very limited options in the middle. He has every attribute required for CM and he is a leader on the pitch. 

Declan Rice is a good example of a player who moved from CB to CM successfully. 

It’s absolutely not crazy to consider trying Collins in CM against Norway and Malta. 
Absolutely right. We're over resourced at CB, under resourced at midfield. We've two friendlies. Use them. Your Rice reminder is spot-on.
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Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by SeanC SeanC wrote:

Collins is sleep walking at cb where it’s easy for him (in a three) and we have lots of options who could fit in there but zero options for cm. If he’s our best player then get him more involved in cm. If you don’t think that’s worth a look then fine but get used to Hourahan & Hendrick slotting in there to slow things down, get by passed and give the ball away. Armenia was a wake up call that we need better cm options. Completely logical.

If its so f**king easy for him at CB, he would do well to try and stop Armenia scoring 2 goals in 5 minutes. The skill set required for a CDM is entirely different to that required for a CB, you have to take the ball on the half turn constantly, gauge when to try and progress the ball, not dive in, not give away frees on the edge of the box, first touch has to be perfect. It's not like Charlton's time where every ball would be hoofed up the pitch over their heads, so the game was all played in front of the CBs and the CDMs. Under a modern press, Collins would struggle big time. Anyway I dont even know why I'm responding to this - we have already altered our system to accommodate 3 CBs, now lads want to move our (potentially) best one into CDM, utter madness and not logical at all.
I'd put that down to boredom to be honest, get him in Cm and build a team around him. We've plenty of cover at CB
Build a team around a CB playing in CM who’s never played there at any level before?Confused
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Originally posted by SeaSharp SeaSharp wrote:

Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by SeanC SeanC wrote:

Collins is sleep walking at cb where it’s easy for him (in a three) and we have lots of options who could fit in there but zero options for cm. If he’s our best player then get him more involved in cm. If you don’t think that’s worth a look then fine but get used to Hourahan & Hendrick slotting in there to slow things down, get by passed and give the ball away. Armenia was a wake up call that we need better cm options. Completely logical.

If its so f**king easy for him at CB, he would do well to try and stop Armenia scoring 2 goals in 5 minutes. The skill set required for a CDM is entirely different to that required for a CB, you have to take the ball on the half turn constantly, gauge when to try and progress the ball, not dive in, not give away frees on the edge of the box, first touch has to be perfect. It's not like Charlton's time where every ball would be hoofed up the pitch over their heads, so the game was all played in front of the CBs and the CDMs. Under a modern press, Collins would struggle big time. Anyway I dont even know why I'm responding to this - we have already altered our system to accommodate 3 CBs, now lads want to move our (potentially) best one into CDM, utter madness and not logical at all.
I'd put that down to boredom to be honest, get him in Cm and build a team around him. We've plenty of cover at CB
Build a team around a CB playing in CM who’s never played there at any level before?Confused

Slightest of differences between "build a team around" and "give him a shot in a friendly game" LOL The viscerally negative reaction to the suggestion it might even be tried is beyond me, what exactly is there to lose?
We're decent enough..
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Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by SeaSharp SeaSharp wrote:

Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by SeanC SeanC wrote:

Collins is sleep walking at cb where it’s easy for him (in a three) and we have lots of options who could fit in there but zero options for cm. If he’s our best player then get him more involved in cm. If you don’t think that’s worth a look then fine but get used to Hourahan & Hendrick slotting in there to slow things down, get by passed and give the ball away. Armenia was a wake up call that we need better cm options. Completely logical.

If its so f**king easy for him at CB, he would do well to try and stop Armenia scoring 2 goals in 5 minutes. The skill set required for a CDM is entirely different to that required for a CB, you have to take the ball on the half turn constantly, gauge when to try and progress the ball, not dive in, not give away frees on the edge of the box, first touch has to be perfect. It's not like Charlton's time where every ball would be hoofed up the pitch over their heads, so the game was all played in front of the CBs and the CDMs. Under a modern press, Collins would struggle big time. Anyway I dont even know why I'm responding to this - we have already altered our system to accommodate 3 CBs, now lads want to move our (potentially) best one into CDM, utter madness and not logical at all.
I'd put that down to boredom to be honest, get him in Cm and build a team around him. We've plenty of cover at CB
Build a team around a CB playing in CM who’s never played there at any level before?Confused

Slightest of differences between "build a team around" and "give him a shot in a friendly game" LOL The viscerally negative reaction to the suggestion it might even be tried is beyond me, what exactly is there to lose?
The post I quoted said to build a team around him in CM? I’m not opposed to trying it in a friendly, he seems to be decent enough on the ball. Ben White played in there a few times for Brighton before his move to Arsenal and he was okay, so it can work.
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Interestingly already see as part of the "leadership group" at Wolves. 

"Their first port of call was to arrange a meeting with the first team’s ‘leadership group’. Captain Ruben Neves, vice skipper Max Kilman, Joao Moutinho, Jonny Castro Otto and Nathan Collins were summoned on Monday."
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