You Boys in Green Homepage YBIG Shop
Forum Home Forum Home : International : Republic Of Ireland
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - It's the Stephen Kenny Thread
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


It's the Stephen Kenny Thread
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 312313314315316 735>
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
9fingers View Drop Down
Paul McGrath
Paul McGrath
Avatar
Ballymun Resident #MONKEANO

Joined: 30 Jan 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 16144 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 9fingers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2021 at 1:40pm
And for what it’s worth, nobody wants to see us lose games, short term pain for long term gain is what it’s about at the minute and I’m quite happy to do that to see us improving. We’re going in the right direction with a young squad. 
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Banjaxed View Drop Down
Liam Brady
Liam Brady


Joined: 21 Feb 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 2965 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Banjaxed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2021 at 1:42pm
It's true about some of the fans on social media. The amount of people who didn't know who Jamie McGrath was. I know he's not a household name. But the same people and social media will spout nonsense about what the Irish team is and isn't doing and who should be playing.

These fans who just rock up a day before the International and start pontificating essentially in an arena they haven't a clue about. 

I'm sorry but I just don't think you have a right of opinion about the Irish team unless you have a knowledge of every player who is or isn't available to us and how they are currently playing or have played in the past. 
Back to Top
Denis Irwin View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
Stay Home & watch Lethal Weapon

Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Location: Ath Cliath
Status: Online
Points: 37953 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Denis Irwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2021 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by 9fingers 9fingers wrote:

Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Originally posted by 9fingers 9fingers wrote:

Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Originally posted by 9fingers 9fingers wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

People are acting like we won the game and that anybody who doubted Kenny has been proven wrong, after yet another defeat. We played very well but we still lost, again. 14 games, 1 win (against a team of semi pros in a friendly).

He still hasnt won a competitive game and we've had a situation twice before this where we raised our level against good opposition (Slovakia, Serbia) - got nothing out of the games and followed it up with a series of rubbish performances. It's like groundhog day here today, the exact same stuff was said after those two games and both times we followed it up with rubbish performances and damaging defeats.

He needs to win games now. At some point there has to be actual concrete evidence of progress, in the form of results and points, 4 points from the next 2 games and that would show that there is a future here with him.



There's a huge pro-Kenny bias on this particular forum compared to other Irish football supporter outlets, we all know this and we know the reason why.

Last night was a decent night for him and we should absolutely be giving him and his staff credit for the performance. At the same time we need to be winning games that aren't friendlies against minnows and we have yet to do that. 

But there is a huge chance here for him to turn things around. 2 home games, 2 big performances, 2 wins. That's what we need and hopefully that's what we will see in the next few days. Get the two wins, and the whole outlook changes.
Less idiots here? 

I dont want to take away from last night being impressive and if we do well over the next two games in particular but also the rest of the campaign, then I'd be happy to see him get the next campaign.

However it's a bit ironic to see other people as idiots for being annoyed with a manager with 1 win in 14. You can build something, you can use young players and develop a style and win at the same time. Certainly against the Bulgarias, the Finlands, the Luxembourgs. It isnt a trade off you know, I think some people get very confused by that. At some point he actually needs to start getting results or this 'building' sh*te will go on for years with barely a brick layed. Let's see if we can follow up a good performance for once. 3 points v Azerbaijan is a must, because if we arent getting that then nothing has changed.
If you actually can’t see the good Kenny has done & the changes he has made then I am certainly not gonna waste my time on you or others. 


LOL

Yeah this is what you're dealing with here. Treating a manager with 1 win in 14 like a messiah because hes brought through a few players and had 3 spirited defeats. Like a cult. 

I think I've been very balanced with my posts on the issue but it seems many would be happy for Kenny to go through 3 campaigns with no wins, with our young players growing old under the guise of 'building something'.

At some point he needs to get results. Like it or lump it, those are the facts. 
Does being able to see that we’re going in the right direction somehow mean people think he’s the messiah? 

Last night SK got it tactically 100% correct, we exposed their weaknesses and should’ve had at least 1 more goal. But individual errors let us down. 

We’re tactically far superior now than we were 18 months ago. 

We’re far more comfortable on the ball than we were 18 months ago. 

We’re creating more chances than we were 18 months ago. 

We’ve a far younger squad than we had 18 months ago, most of our squad is 19-24 now, something which we’ll benefit hugely from in the future. 

“Building something” being somehow a negative only makes you look silly. 



Hilarious thing is these lads will be on here cribbing if they got their wish about SK and we went back to hoofball under someone like Mick or Allardyce
Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".

Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn
Back to Top
E2016 View Drop Down
Liam Brady
Liam Brady


Joined: 13 Jan 2016
Location: Cork
Status: Online
Points: 1774 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote E2016 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2021 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by Denis Irwin Denis Irwin wrote:

Originally posted by 9fingers 9fingers wrote:

Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Originally posted by 9fingers 9fingers wrote:

Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Originally posted by 9fingers 9fingers wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

People are acting like we won the game and that anybody who doubted Kenny has been proven wrong, after yet another defeat. We played very well but we still lost, again. 14 games, 1 win (against a team of semi pros in a friendly).

He still hasnt won a competitive game and we've had a situation twice before this where we raised our level against good opposition (Slovakia, Serbia) - got nothing out of the games and followed it up with a series of rubbish performances. It's like groundhog day here today, the exact same stuff was said after those two games and both times we followed it up with rubbish performances and damaging defeats.

He needs to win games now. At some point there has to be actual concrete evidence of progress, in the form of results and points, 4 points from the next 2 games and that would show that there is a future here with him.



There's a huge pro-Kenny bias on this particular forum compared to other Irish football supporter outlets, we all know this and we know the reason why.

Last night was a decent night for him and we should absolutely be giving him and his staff credit for the performance. At the same time we need to be winning games that aren't friendlies against minnows and we have yet to do that. 

But there is a huge chance here for him to turn things around. 2 home games, 2 big performances, 2 wins. That's what we need and hopefully that's what we will see in the next few days. Get the two wins, and the whole outlook changes.
Less idiots here? 

I dont want to take away from last night being impressive and if we do well over the next two games in particular but also the rest of the campaign, then I'd be happy to see him get the next campaign.

However it's a bit ironic to see other people as idiots for being annoyed with a manager with 1 win in 14. You can build something, you can use young players and develop a style and win at the same time. Certainly against the Bulgarias, the Finlands, the Luxembourgs. It isnt a trade off you know, I think some people get very confused by that. At some point he actually needs to start getting results or this 'building' sh*te will go on for years with barely a brick layed. Let's see if we can follow up a good performance for once. 3 points v Azerbaijan is a must, because if we arent getting that then nothing has changed.
If you actually can’t see the good Kenny has done & the changes he has made then I am certainly not gonna waste my time on you or others. 


LOL

Yeah this is what you're dealing with here. Treating a manager with 1 win in 14 like a messiah because hes brought through a few players and had 3 spirited defeats. Like a cult. 

I think I've been very balanced with my posts on the issue but it seems many would be happy for Kenny to go through 3 campaigns with no wins, with our young players growing old under the guise of 'building something'.

At some point he needs to get results. Like it or lump it, those are the facts. 
Does being able to see that we’re going in the right direction somehow mean people think he’s the messiah? 

Last night SK got it tactically 100% correct, we exposed their weaknesses and should’ve had at least 1 more goal. But individual errors let us down. 

We’re tactically far superior now than we were 18 months ago. 

We’re far more comfortable on the ball than we were 18 months ago. 

We’re creating more chances than we were 18 months ago. 

We’ve a far younger squad than we had 18 months ago, most of our squad is 19-24 now, something which we’ll benefit hugely from in the future. 

“Building something” being somehow a negative only makes you look silly. 



Hilarious thing is these lads will be on here cribbing if they got their wish about SK and we went back to hoofball under someone like Mick or Allardyce


What is my wish?

I've literally said that he did well last night, but we have done well in the past and not followed it up.

He needs to start winning games. Is that statement so taboo? LOL

If we get 4 points from the next 2 games then I think that there can be a genuine belief that this manager and this squad are going places, however if we don't follow up the good performance from last night then questions have to be asked again.

That's it. God forbid the man be asked to actually win a game of football. Because seemingly if you bring through a few young players then you can't be expected to beat Bulgaria, Finland or Luxembourg. LOL
Back to Top
Cabra Hoop View Drop Down
Roy Keane
Roy Keane


Joined: 06 Feb 2012
Location: Royal County
Status: Offline
Points: 10838 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabra Hoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2021 at 1:54pm
Ireland's 3 best competitive performances have been away to Slovakia, Serbia and Portugal. Results went against us in all cases. A bit of luck would have changed the results in those games. Is it any coincidence that the 2 managers who had fortune shine on them were the 2 most high profile namely Charlton and O'Neill.
" BFC always gives me a laugh........ "
Back to Top
E2016 View Drop Down
Liam Brady
Liam Brady


Joined: 13 Jan 2016
Location: Cork
Status: Online
Points: 1774 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote E2016 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2021 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by notpropaganda73 notpropaganda73 wrote:

Originally posted by oldbilly oldbilly wrote:

if people didn’t enjoy that performance more than mick sending a team out to welly Gibraltar then I give up.

Clap


Yeah, if you didn't enjoy our performance at home to Denmark or at home to Switzerland more than you did our complete capitulation v England, our embarassing showing v Luxembourg or our terrible performance at home to Bulgaria then I give up.

Comparing the worst of one manager with the best of another. You're better off giving up if you're going to be that disingenuous.

Not that I'm saying Mick is better or not better than Kenny, my response was to some claim that people think we should be like 2002 Ireland when we have had success and been very competetive many times since then, the most recent of which not that long ago.


Edited by E2016 - 02 Sep 2021 at 1:57pm
Back to Top
Strazdas View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton


Joined: 17 Nov 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 5483 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Strazdas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2021 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by 9fingers 9fingers wrote:

And for what it’s worth, nobody wants to see us lose games, short term pain for long term gain is what it’s about at the minute and I’m quite happy to do that to see us improving. We’re going in the right direction with a young squad. 


I was something of a 'Kenny sceptic', especially after the Luxembourg defeat, but the more I hear from him talking passionately about rebuilding the team from scratch with young players, the more I'm on board. We can all live with an NQ for the World Cup (it's very hard to qualify for the thing anyway, even for good sides) if we know that a strong Euro qualifying tournament is on the way. Euro 2024 is less than three years away now.
Back to Top
Left foot View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


Joined: 16 Aug 2019
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Left foot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2021 at 2:00pm
Originally posted by notpropaganda73 notpropaganda73 wrote:

Originally posted by oldbilly oldbilly wrote:

if people didn’t enjoy that performance more than mick sending a team out to welly Gibraltar then I give up.

Clap

Exactly this. 

Around every international you see a lot of 'casual' ireland supporters visit this forum spouting on about how we haven't won games and then offering some revisionist version of how good it was before Kenny then disappear again when the games are over.

There are a lot of people on this forum that follow irish players careers week in week out and are very aware the results have been bad... this is not a contested statement. But they can also see the progress being made.

Do people really think that as soon as Kenny is sacked the players will suddenly start playing for their clubs consistently and putting in performances for ireland? 
Back to Top
gally View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
Kevin Kilbane
Avatar

Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 179 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gally Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2021 at 2:01pm
would like to see Coventry and Johansson added to the main squad, watched Coventry pre season, played very very well in a number of games. 
Back to Top
9fingers View Drop Down
Paul McGrath
Paul McGrath
Avatar
Ballymun Resident #MONKEANO

Joined: 30 Jan 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 16144 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 9fingers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2021 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by gally gally wrote:

would like to see Coventry and Johansson added to the main squad, watched Coventry pre season, played very very well in a number of games. 
Yeah actually wouldn’t be surprised if 1 or 2 move up from the 21s altho it probably won’t be until after the 21s game on Friday so wouldn’t be available until the Serbia game. 
Back to Top
E2016 View Drop Down
Liam Brady
Liam Brady


Joined: 13 Jan 2016
Location: Cork
Status: Online
Points: 1774 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote E2016 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2021 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Originally posted by notpropaganda73 notpropaganda73 wrote:

Originally posted by oldbilly oldbilly wrote:

if people didn’t enjoy that performance more than mick sending a team out to welly Gibraltar then I give up.

Clap

Exactly this. 

Around every international you see a lot of 'casual' ireland supporters visit this forum spouting on about how we haven't won games and then offering some revisionist version of how good it was before Kenny then disappear again when the games are over.

There are a lot of people on this forum that follow irish players careers week in week out and are very aware the results have been bad... this is not a contested statement. But they can also see the progress being made.

Do people really think that as soon as Kenny is sacked the players will suddenly start playing for their clubs consistently and putting in performances for ireland? 


This is not what is being said and is more disingenuous bile.

Firstly, again, how easy is it to compare the best of one manager with the worst of another. That works both ways you know?

Secondly, literally all that has been said is Stephen Kenny needs to start winning games of football. That is literally it and for some reason people have lost their sh*t over it.

Mick was brought into the conversation due to some outrageous and absolutely meritless claim that 'some people' think it's 2002 and we should be as good as we were then. Mick brought qualification to the final game, that is a fact. I've not commented on his style of play, or whether he is better or worse than Kenny. I've simply pointed out that we have been competitive and successful many times since 2002, the most recent of which was under Mick.

A lot of people on this forum do follow Irish players careers week in week out, including myself so save yourself the piousness.

Last night was a good performance but Stephen Kenny has presided over several terrible performances. Many more terrible performances than good. We have also seen this side under Kenny do well against big opposition and completely regress TWICE previously when people thought we hit a turning point.

So lets see him win a few games, because ultimately that is the goal - before people give themselves friction burn over a spirited away defeat.

If we follow up the good performance from last night over the next 2 home games then I don't think there would be anybody who would say we are not building something now. However we have been here twice before so maybe people should wait a few days before acting smug about Kenny and what he is doing.
Back to Top
Left foot View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


Joined: 16 Aug 2019
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Left foot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2021 at 2:09pm
Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Originally posted by notpropaganda73 notpropaganda73 wrote:

Originally posted by oldbilly oldbilly wrote:

if people didn’t enjoy that performance more than mick sending a team out to welly Gibraltar then I give up.

Clap


Yeah, if you didn't enjoy our performance at home to Denmark or at home to Switzerland more than you did our complete capitulation v England, our embarassing showing v Luxembourg or our terrible performance at home to Bulgaria then I give up.

Comparing the worst of one manager with the best of another. You're better off giving up if you're going to be that disingenuous.

Not that I'm saying Mick is better or not better than Kenny, my response was to some claim that people think we should be like 2002 Ireland when we have had success and been very competetive many times since then, the most recent of which not that long ago.

Firstly we were competitive yesterday, we were winning in Portugal up to the 89th minute. Performance wasn't bad either.

Under mccarthy we played Gibraltar twich and it was horrible to watch but got a result by the skin of our teeth.

The Georgia games live long in the memory where we couldn't string three passes together and I'm not embellishing the truth here.

Last good performances I can remember were 2016. We had hoolihan who was fantastic, Brady and hendrick were at their peak, still had Robbie as an option from the bench. Mccarthy was fit and injury free. All these players are gone now and we haven't been able to replace them yet.
Back to Top
Claret Murph View Drop Down
Paul McGrath
Paul McGrath
Avatar
Hmmm, Goodness, I must say

Joined: 16 Apr 2009
Location: Tibet
Status: Offline
Points: 15750 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claret Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2021 at 2:59pm
I have much to say but I can't as I would be banned off the
This forum . Last night was positive but one win in14 tells its own story .
For those that know  me and want to talk football on Saturday I would love to have a chat .
Lansdowne Road debut aged 52 and 201 days .
Back to Top
Denis Irwin View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
Stay Home & watch Lethal Weapon

Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Location: Ath Cliath
Status: Online
Points: 37953 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Denis Irwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2021 at 3:03pm
Originally posted by Claret Murph Claret Murph wrote:

I have much to say but I can't as I would be banned off the
This forum . Last night was positive but one win in14 tells its own story .
For those that know  me and want to talk football on Saturday I would love to have a chat .


Quelle Surprise 
Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".

Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn
Back to Top
Fozz View Drop Down
Liam Brady
Liam Brady
Avatar

Joined: 08 Oct 2019
Location: Dublin
Status: Online
Points: 2248 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fozz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2021 at 3:08pm
Originally posted by Claret Murph Claret Murph wrote:

I have much to say but I can't as I would be banned off the
This forum . Last night was positive but one win in14 tells its own story .
For those that know  me and want to talk football on Saturday I would love to have a chat .

It can tell many stories, and back up any pre-concieved notions.

The KennyOut (with no viable succession plan or reasons why we'd do better under another manager) people will just look at results.
Bottom line.
This is short-sighted as results can hide many things.
And I feel such an attitude stems from people who judge every league-manager on their last result - we see this weekly in the pantomime that is the PL where a win is treated as a new dawn and a loss as a kick in the arse out the door.

Nuance and taking any sort of middle-ground are gone in today's social-media driven world.
You either think Kenny is the messiah or a dead-man walking.

I take the view that we are on a long road and it will be bumpy, and Luxembourg may not be the biggest bump on it.
But the road is going to a better place and we're already in somewhat of a better place as regards performances.

As someone else said, if you think this is worse than watching a myriad of MoN or McCarthy performances, then there's not much can be done to sway you.
Those results held many a story too.
Back to Top
9fingers View Drop Down
Paul McGrath
Paul McGrath
Avatar
Ballymun Resident #MONKEANO

Joined: 30 Jan 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 16144 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 9fingers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2021 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by Fozz Fozz wrote:

Originally posted by Claret Murph Claret Murph wrote:

I have much to say but I can't as I would be banned off the
This forum . Last night was positive but one win in14 tells its own story .
For those that know  me and want to talk football on Saturday I would love to have a chat .

It can tell many stories, and back up any pre-concieved notions.

The KennyOut (with no viable succession plan or reasons why we'd do better under another manager) people will just look at results.
Bottom line.
This is short-sighted as results can hide many things.
And I feel such an attitude stems from people who judge every league-manager on their last result - we see this weekly in the pantomime that is the PL where a win is treated as a new dawn and a loss as a kick in the arse out the door.

Nuance and taking any sort of middle-ground are gone in today's social-media driven world.
You either think Kenny is the messiah or a dead-man walking.

I take the view that we are on a long road and it will be bumpy, and Luxembourg may not be the biggest bump on it.
But the road is going to a better place and we're already in somewhat of a better place as regards performances.

As someone else said, if you think this is worse than watching a myriad of MoN or McCarthy performances, then there's not much can be done to sway you.
Those results held many a story too.







Sense! 
Back to Top
planning View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton

Football version of Comical Ali.

Joined: 17 Mar 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 3836 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2021 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Last night was a good performance but Stephen Kenny has presided over several terrible performances. Many more terrible performances than good. We have also seen this side under Kenny do well against big opposition and completely regress TWICE previously when people thought we hit a turning point.

So lets see him win a few games, because ultimately that is the goal - before people give themselves friction burn over a spirited away defeat.

If we follow up the good performance from last night over the next 2 home games then I don't think there would be anybody who would say we are not building something now. However we have been here twice before so maybe people should wait a few days before acting smug about Kenny and what he is doing.

It was a good performance to build on the good performance in Hungary, to build on the win in Andorra, and it was a minute away from 4 games unbeaten. We are heading in the right direction. 

Now that the widely forecast 5 and 6 goal loss in Faro didn't happen, the new demands to keep the pressure up, are that the next 2 games are "must win" games. No they're not. We haven't scored a goal or a win at home in 22 months, and we have no chance of qualifying out of the group. This team hasn't been built in a day, and one game is not going to decide whether Kenny continues to build it or not. 
Back to Top
Claret Murph View Drop Down
Paul McGrath
Paul McGrath
Avatar
Hmmm, Goodness, I must say

Joined: 16 Apr 2009
Location: Tibet
Status: Offline
Points: 15750 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claret Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2021 at 3:22pm
lads i can't say anything on here but if you want to talk i am happy to listen and reply in private on Saturday before or after the game .
Lansdowne Road debut aged 52 and 201 days .
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 312313314315316 735>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.00
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.