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J89
Ray Houghton
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Posted: 09 Jan 2022 at 4:39pm |
aviva8 wrote:
Needs a loan move ASAP in my opinion. | Smith isn't too pushed because they'll only be left with Pukki and Sargent if he leaves.
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Fruice
Liam Brady
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Posted: 09 Jan 2022 at 4:59pm |
Greenie50 wrote:
Fruice wrote:
why would he move at this stage though they obviously like himAt Norwich they most likely will go down. He
doesn’t want to burn bridges there next season he will be with one of
top clubs in the championship and hopefully will get plenty of game
time. Leaving now could prove a backwards step in the long run |
... because he isn't playing & developing?
Staying is the backwards step.
2
years ago he got the start vs Preston (Championship team, albeit 2nd
string on the day) in the FA Cup, but scored a great hat-trick and won
the game.
Brought off the bench vs Tottenham in the next round, scored in the penalty shootout to help them win.
Now he's only getting 5 minutes vs League 1 Charlton, so he's actually regressed from where he was 2 years ago.
No point in being at a top Championship club if he isn't playing.
Left foot wrote:
Greenie50 wrote:
On for his now traditional 6mins to see the game out.
Behind Pukki, Dowell, Sargant & Tzolis.
Surely a clear sign that he will be sent on loan....?
|
Should he not look to leave Norwich? Even if Norwich get relegated he still stays behind Pukki Dowell and Sargent. Unless they leave but to be honest they haven't been great either so why would they leave.
In my opinion he'd struggle in the championship and should maybe look at a move to League 1. |
Yeah, I'd agree. Though I think if he had been playing more he'd do well in the Champ, as it stands, a mid-season move there would be tricky. It's more important for him to find a club that will start him consistently for the rest of the season, so yeah, League 1 would probably be a better bet.
And frankly he should get another loan next season. As you say, he's too far behind now, he won't get much of a looking in next season.
|
He’s also getting the odd start and up to 30 minutes in the premiership that is worth gold…dropping to a level where he is going to end up in 4 months time for me is a bit pointless.
I know confidence could be a factor but also playing against top players is worth a lot in terms of development
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Banjaxed
Liam Brady
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Posted: 09 Jan 2022 at 5:11pm |
Fruice wrote:
Greenie50 wrote:
Fruice wrote:
why would he move at this stage though they obviously like himAt Norwich they most likely will go down. He
doesn’t want to burn bridges there next season he will be with one of
top clubs in the championship and hopefully will get plenty of game
time. Leaving now could prove a backwards step in the long run |
... because he isn't playing & developing?
Staying is the backwards step.
2
years ago he got the start vs Preston (Championship team, albeit 2nd
string on the day) in the FA Cup, but scored a great hat-trick and won
the game.
Brought off the bench vs Tottenham in the next round, scored in the penalty shootout to help them win.
Now he's only getting 5 minutes vs League 1 Charlton, so he's actually regressed from where he was 2 years ago.
No point in being at a top Championship club if he isn't playing.
Left foot wrote:
Greenie50 wrote:
On for his now traditional 6mins to see the game out.
Behind Pukki, Dowell, Sargant & Tzolis.
Surely a clear sign that he will be sent on loan....?
|
Should he not look to leave Norwich? Even if Norwich get relegated he still stays behind Pukki Dowell and Sargent. Unless they leave but to be honest they haven't been great either so why would they leave.
In my opinion he'd struggle in the championship and should maybe look at a move to League 1. |
Yeah, I'd agree. Though I think if he had been playing more he'd do well in the Champ, as it stands, a mid-season move there would be tricky. It's more important for him to find a club that will start him consistently for the rest of the season, so yeah, League 1 would probably be a better bet.
And frankly he should get another loan next season. As you say, he's too far behind now, he won't get much of a looking in next season.
|
He’s also getting the odd start and up to 30 minutes in the premiership that is worth gold…dropping to a level where he is going to end up in 4 months time for me is a bit pointless.
I know confidence could be a factor but also playing against top players is worth a lot in terms of development |
A few minutes here and there at the highest level doesn't mean sh!t for any player, never mind a young player developing.
Let's not over inflate the premier League here. Half the teams in it would have a hard time in the championship.
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geansaí
Alan Kernaghan
Joined: 06 Feb 2021
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Posted: 09 Jan 2022 at 6:07pm |
Does anyone here actually watch football??
Smith has been in charge for 9 games, Idah has been involved in 6 of them and actually started 2. Norwich are a disaster of a team and Smith is constantly tinkering to find something that works. He is going to get more chances and its up to him to make an impact and become a guaranteed starter.
People saying he is behind Sargent and Dowell- Idah literally started the last premiership game with both of them on the bench and they don't even play the same position as him, Sargent is mainly used out wide and Dowell plays as a number 10. Again Smith is trying things so he may lob one of them up top but realistically his competition is Pukki.
The other thing people keep saying is that he needs to go on loan to aid his development- a lot of coaches don't think it's beneficial to players development, premiership teams have better facilities and better coaches, they train to a higher level. Teams usually send players out on loan to put them in the shop window or if they think they could do with toughening up, they don't sent them to league 1 thinking they will come back as better players!
The threads on Idah, Parrott, Connolly and Ferguson should be locked till the next internationals for the mental health of all these posters that have a meltdown after every game!
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Fruice
Liam Brady
Joined: 22 Nov 2014
Location: Cork
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Posted: 09 Jan 2022 at 6:11pm |
Banjaxed wrote:
Fruice wrote:
Greenie50 wrote:
Fruice wrote:
why would he move at this stage though they obviously like himAt Norwich they most likely will go down. He
doesn’t want to burn bridges there next season he will be with one of
top clubs in the championship and hopefully will get plenty of game
time. Leaving now could prove a backwards step in the long run |
... because he isn't playing & developing?
Staying is the backwards step.
2
years ago he got the start vs Preston (Championship team, albeit 2nd
string on the day) in the FA Cup, but scored a great hat-trick and won
the game.
Brought off the bench vs Tottenham in the next round, scored in the penalty shootout to help them win.
Now he's only getting 5 minutes vs League 1 Charlton, so he's actually regressed from where he was 2 years ago.
No point in being at a top Championship club if he isn't playing.
Left foot wrote:
Greenie50 wrote:
On for his now traditional 6mins to see the game out.
Behind Pukki, Dowell, Sargant & Tzolis.
Surely a clear sign that he will be sent on loan....?
|
Should he not look to leave Norwich? Even if Norwich get relegated he still stays behind Pukki Dowell and Sargent. Unless they leave but to be honest they haven't been great either so why would they leave.
In my opinion he'd struggle in the championship and should maybe look at a move to League 1. |
Yeah, I'd agree. Though I think if he had been playing more he'd do well in the Champ, as it stands, a mid-season move there would be tricky. It's more important for him to find a club that will start him consistently for the rest of the season, so yeah, League 1 would probably be a better bet.
And frankly he should get another loan next season. As you say, he's too far behind now, he won't get much of a looking in next season.
|
He’s also getting the odd start and up to 30 minutes in the premiership that is worth gold…dropping to a level where he is going to end up in 4 months time for me is a bit pointless.
I know confidence could be a factor but also playing against top players is worth a lot in terms of development |
A few minutes here and there at the highest level doesn't mean sh!t for any player, never mind a young player developing.
Let's not over inflate the premier League here. Half the teams in it would have a hard time in the championship.
|
What ever about Idah we can agree to disagree on this but he has played in 13 premier league game this year so while he might not be getting a huge amount of minutes he is featuring regular. Norwich are on record as saying they want to be in the top 24 clubs in England and the fact they don’t want to loan Idah out shows they value him.
Most premier league teams are good strong teams and would have no problem in the championship. All you have todo is look at the teams that come the most go back down with in two seasons and then most come back up with in two years.
Thus proving you are talking nonsense.
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Banjaxed
Liam Brady
Joined: 21 Feb 2014
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Posted: 09 Jan 2022 at 6:37pm |
Fruice wrote:
Banjaxed wrote:
Fruice wrote:
Greenie50 wrote:
Fruice wrote:
why would he move at this stage though they obviously like himAt Norwich they most likely will go down. He
doesn’t want to burn bridges there next season he will be with one of
top clubs in the championship and hopefully will get plenty of game
time. Leaving now could prove a backwards step in the long run |
... because he isn't playing & developing?
Staying is the backwards step.
2
years ago he got the start vs Preston (Championship team, albeit 2nd
string on the day) in the FA Cup, but scored a great hat-trick and won
the game.
Brought off the bench vs Tottenham in the next round, scored in the penalty shootout to help them win.
Now he's only getting 5 minutes vs League 1 Charlton, so he's actually regressed from where he was 2 years ago.
No point in being at a top Championship club if he isn't playing.
Left foot wrote:
Greenie50 wrote:
On for his now traditional 6mins to see the game out.
Behind Pukki, Dowell, Sargant & Tzolis.
Surely a clear sign that he will be sent on loan....?
|
Should he not look to leave Norwich? Even if Norwich get relegated he still stays behind Pukki Dowell and Sargent. Unless they leave but to be honest they haven't been great either so why would they leave.
In my opinion he'd struggle in the championship and should maybe look at a move to League 1. |
Yeah, I'd agree. Though I think if he had been playing more he'd do well in the Champ, as it stands, a mid-season move there would be tricky. It's more important for him to find a club that will start him consistently for the rest of the season, so yeah, League 1 would probably be a better bet.
And frankly he should get another loan next season. As you say, he's too far behind now, he won't get much of a looking in next season.
|
He’s also getting the odd start and up to 30 minutes in the premiership that is worth gold…dropping to a level where he is going to end up in 4 months time for me is a bit pointless.
I know confidence could be a factor but also playing against top players is worth a lot in terms of development |
A few minutes here and there at the highest level doesn't mean sh!t for any player, never mind a young player developing.
Let's not over inflate the premier League here. Half the teams in it would have a hard time in the championship.
|
What ever about Idah we can agree to disagree on this but he has played in 13 premier league game this year so while he might not be getting a huge amount of minutes he is featuring regular. Norwich are on record as saying they want to be in the top 24 clubs in England and the fact they don’t want to loan Idah out shows they value him.
Most premier league teams are good strong teams and would have no problem in the championship. All you have todo is look at the teams that come the most go back down with in two seasons and then most come back up with in two years.
Thus proving you are talking nonsense. |
He's not 18. He's 21 next month. Train all you want with superior players but not getting substantial playing time at this point will be to the detriment of him developing his game physically, mentally and creatively.
Thus proving you are talking nonsense. Is this how this works?
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Fruice
Liam Brady
Joined: 22 Nov 2014
Location: Cork
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Points: 1260
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Posted: 09 Jan 2022 at 6:56pm |
Banjaxed wrote:
Fruice wrote:
Banjaxed wrote:
Fruice wrote:
Greenie50 wrote:
Fruice wrote:
why would he move at this stage though they obviously like himAt Norwich they most likely will go down. He
doesn’t want to burn bridges there next season he will be with one of
top clubs in the championship and hopefully will get plenty of game
time. Leaving now could prove a backwards step in the long run |
... because he isn't playing & developing?
Staying is the backwards step.
2
years ago he got the start vs Preston (Championship team, albeit 2nd
string on the day) in the FA Cup, but scored a great hat-trick and won
the game.
Brought off the bench vs Tottenham in the next round, scored in the penalty shootout to help them win.
Now he's only getting 5 minutes vs League 1 Charlton, so he's actually regressed from where he was 2 years ago.
No point in being at a top Championship club if he isn't playing.
Left foot wrote:
Greenie50 wrote:
On for his now traditional 6mins to see the game out.
Behind Pukki, Dowell, Sargant & Tzolis.
Surely a clear sign that he will be sent on loan....?
|
Should he not look to leave Norwich? Even if Norwich get relegated he still stays behind Pukki Dowell and Sargent. Unless they leave but to be honest they haven't been great either so why would they leave.
In my opinion he'd struggle in the championship and should maybe look at a move to League 1. |
Yeah, I'd agree. Though I think if he had been playing more he'd do well in the Champ, as it stands, a mid-season move there would be tricky. It's more important for him to find a club that will start him consistently for the rest of the season, so yeah, League 1 would probably be a better bet.
And frankly he should get another loan next season. As you say, he's too far behind now, he won't get much of a looking in next season.
|
He’s also getting the odd start and up to 30 minutes in the premiership that is worth gold…dropping to a level where he is going to end up in 4 months time for me is a bit pointless.
I know confidence could be a factor but also playing against top players is worth a lot in terms of development |
A few minutes here and there at the highest level doesn't mean sh!t for any player, never mind a young player developing.
Let's not over inflate the premier League here. Half the teams in it would have a hard time in the championship.
|
What ever about Idah we can agree to disagree on this but he has played in 13 premier league game this year so while he might not be getting a huge amount of minutes he is featuring regular. Norwich are on record as saying they want to be in the top 24 clubs in England and the fact they don’t want to loan Idah out shows they value him.
Most premier league teams are good strong teams and would have no problem in the championship. All you have todo is look at the teams that come the most go back down with in two seasons and then most come back up with in two years.
Thus proving you are talking nonsense. |
He's not 18. He's 21 next month. Train all you want with superior players but not getting substantial playing time at this point will be to the detriment of him developing his game physically, mentally and creatively.
Thus proving you are talking nonsense. Is this how this works?
|
And what of the premier league being over rated?
Do you actually know how much he has played since smith has come in?
Or are you guessing ? Go on put up his minutes since smith has come in!!
Just to show me how it works
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Liam Green
500 Club la la la
Joined: 27 Aug 2018
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Posted: 09 Jan 2022 at 8:28pm |
Left foot wrote:
Half the season is over and people saying he's doing grand... absolute crazy... I believe he's still played more for ireland than he has for Norwich. But yes, 6 minutes to see out games is fantastic progress.
Pukki and Sargent have not exactly been revelations this season but have continued to be ahead of Idah consistently. All signs point to Idah just not being good enough... |
He looks every bit as good as Sargent from what I’ve seen and Sargent was reasonably successful in Germany to get a move to Norwich . Idah did well against a top team like Portugal too and others too and I still believe he will prove he has what it takes to be successful eventually . Your comment that all signs point to him been not good enough is in my opinion wide of the mark . I’m certain he will prove you wrong in your assessment of him
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doherty
Jack Charlton
Teenage Kicks, so hard to beat
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Posted: 09 Jan 2022 at 8:38pm |
Whatever level he eventually ends up at he needs to be playing games from now on. If hes not going to get gametime at Norwich he needs to move on. If and when they get relegated they will need a goalscorer to get back up and that will be Pukki one would assume so them dropping down wont make a whole lot of difference if you ask me. Needs a move where he will get a decent shot most weeks of playing.
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Greenie50
Liam Brady
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Posted: 09 Jan 2022 at 9:30pm |
Fruice wrote:
He’s also getting the odd start and up to 30 minutes
in the premiership that is worth gold…dropping to a level where he is
going to end up in 4 months time for me is a bit pointless.
I know confidence could be a factor but also playing against top players is worth a lot in terms of development |
The
fastest way to develop any skill, whether thats football or a musical
instrument or whatever, is to find your current level and play in an
environment that's just slightly above that, stay there until you
match the bar, then move to something slightly harder, adapt to that
level and move up again, etc., ..repeat ad nauseam.
Jumping in the deep end is counter productive for most people, it actually slows down development. Idah is very much in over his head right now, as are Norwich.
It
would be one thing if Idah was getting this amount of game time for a top
team like Liverpool, playing attacking football, scoring a few goals,
world class coaching, etc., but he's not.
He's an inexperienced, underdeveloped striker getting not-nearly-enough minutes for the worst team in the toughest league in the world.
A
demoralised team that creates Sweet FA in the way of goalscoring chances
& can't win games. That's the worst place to be for a young striker
trying to learn his trade, and that would be the case even if he was
starting every game.
Someone
summed it up earlier - Right now Idah isn't good enough to impact
Norwich in a positive enough way, and Norwich are not good enough to
offer Idah enough gametime or attacking play to actually help him develop to the point of being useful to them this season. Both parties would benefit in the longrun from Idah going on loan now.
It's the opposite for someone like Omobamidele, a 19yo CB getting the odd PL game for NC doing plenty defending against some of the best attackers in the world. Great experience.
Banjaxed wrote:
He's not 18. He's 21 next month. Train all you want with superior players but not getting substantial playing time at this point will be to the detriment of him developing his game physically, mentally and creatively.
Thus proving you are talking nonsense. Is this how this works? |
Exactly. When it comes down to it, no amount of training is a replacement for consistent 90s.
Idah turns 21 next month, and across 2 years in Norwich's senior squad he's got 49 appearances. Only 7 starts. For Ireland, 13 caps (10 starts), 0 goals, 0 assists, barely a shot on target.
Jason Knight is 2 days younger than Idah, he's made 99 appearances for Derby (82 starts!). For Ireland - 1 goal, 3 assists in 9 caps (4 starts).
They both played in the Luxembourg game - Idah 60 mins, Knight 30mins. Who had by far the bigger impact?
Idah would benefit immensely by dropping a division or two. I think he'd develop quickly by getting a run of 20+ starts, playing regular attacking football & scoring a few goals. He'd go into the Nations League match fit, confident & firing.
If he continues as is with Norwich it's going to be nothing but a long, slow, demoralising grind with little gained. He'd go into the Nations League much the same way as the last few Ireland games.
Even the run of games he got in pre-season did him so much good, vs Kings Lynn, Lincoln, Gillingham, Huddersfield & Newcastle. Scored 4 goals in 5 games, took the confidence into the Ireland games in September & played well. But then there was clear drop-off in Oct/Nov because he hadn't been playing much.
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Fruice
Liam Brady
Joined: 22 Nov 2014
Location: Cork
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Posted: 09 Jan 2022 at 9:52pm |
Greenie50 wrote:
Fruice wrote:
He’s also getting the odd start and up to 30 minutes
in the premiership that is worth gold…dropping to a level where he is
going to end up in 4 months time for me is a bit pointless.
I know confidence could be a factor but also playing against top players is worth a lot in terms of development |
The
fastest way to develop any skill, whether thats football or a musical
instrument or whatever, is to find your current level and play in an
environment that's just slightly above that, stay there until you
match the bar, then move to something slightly harder, adapt to that
level and move up again, etc., ..repeat ad nauseam.
Jumping in the deep end is counter productive for most people, it actually slows down development. Idah is very much in over his head right now, as are Norwich.
It
would be one thing if Idah was getting this amount of game time for a top
team like Liverpool, playing attacking football, scoring a few goals,
world class coaching, etc., but he's not.
He's an inexperienced, underdeveloped striker getting not-nearly-enough minutes for the worst team in the toughest league in the world.
A
demoralised team that creates Sweet FA in the way of goalscoring chances
& can't win games. That's the worst place to be for a young striker
trying to learn his trade, and that would be the case even if he was
starting every game.
Someone
summed it up earlier - Right now Idah isn't good enough to impact
Norwich in a positive enough way, and Norwich are not good enough to
offer Idah enough gametime or attacking play to actually help him develop to the point of being useful to them this season. Both parties would benefit in the longrun from Idah going on loan now.
It's the opposite for someone like Omobamidele, a 19yo CB getting the odd PL game for NC doing plenty defending against some of the best attackers in the world. Great experience.
Banjaxed wrote:
He's not 18. He's 21 next month. Train all you want with superior players but not getting substantial playing time at this point will be to the detriment of him developing his game physically, mentally and creatively.
Thus proving you are talking nonsense. Is this how this works? |
Exactly. When it comes down to it, no amount of training is a replacement for consistent 90s.
Idah turns 21 next month, and across 2 years in Norwich's senior squad he's got 49 appearances. Only 7 starts. For Ireland, 13 caps (10 starts), 0 goals, 0 assists, barely a shot on target.
Jason Knight is 2 days younger than Idah, he's made 99 appearances for Derby (82 starts!). For Ireland - 1 goal, 3 assists in 9 caps (4 starts).
They both played in the Luxembourg game - Idah 60 mins, Knight 30mins. Who had by far the bigger impact?
Idah would benefit immensely by dropping a division or two. I think he'd develop quickly by getting a run of 20+ starts, playing regular attacking football & scoring a few goals. He'd go into the Nations League match fit, confident & firing.
If he continues as is with Norwich it's going to be nothing but a long, slow, demoralising grind with little gained. He'd go into the Nations League much the same way as the last few Ireland games.
Even the run of games he got in pre-season did him so much good, vs Kings Lynn, Lincoln, Gillingham, Huddersfield & Newcastle. Scored 4 goals in 5 games, took the confidence into the Ireland games in September & played well. But then there was clear drop-off in Oct/Nov because he hadn't been playing much.
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That school of taught is one way to look at it but if you are to follow that school of taught why did he go to England at a young age would he not have been better off staying with college Corinthians then maybe making the move to Cork City and then head across the water to a lower league club. Then he would have loads of games like knight but never got to develop at a premier league club.
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greenshoots
Kevin Kilbane
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Posted: 10 Jan 2022 at 10:12am |
I'm firmly in the camp of thinking that Idah needs to get away from Norwich. I couldnt give a hoot that Norwich think highly of him... At 21 years old, he needs game time now. He cant even get more than 5 mins as a sub in an FA Cup game that surely doesnt mean much to Norwich. Their focus will be on doing whatever they can to stay in the Premier League, not some meaningless cup run.
Idah is not a kid anymore. His progress is being stifled completely by a lack of game time. I don't agree with the posters who say stick it out and he'll get loads of game time in the Championship next year. If Norwich go down and they keep Pukki, then Idah is still playing 2nd fiddle. Norwich will be on parachute payments, they'll be able to afford to keep some 'Permiership' players in the hope of coming back up.
He needs outta there!
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darman28
Liam Brady
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Posted: 10 Jan 2022 at 11:33am |
Idah has played the total of 387 minutes in all comps this season for Norwich. That translates to 4.3 match time played, Norwich have played 23 matches in all comps this season, so he has played 18.7% of Norwich's game time this season. Is that enough game time for a young 20/21yo player?
Smith has given Idah more minutes, 235 minutes over 9 matches. 2 starts, 4 sub appearances and 3 as a non used sub. He has played 23.33% game time under Smith.
Under Farke he played 155 minutes over 13 matches, 1 start, 9 sub appearances and 3 as a non used sub. He played 13.23% game time under Farke.
Idah is playing a lot more under Smith, there are at least two more matches in January so it will be interesting to see how many more minutes he will gets before the window closes.
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horsebox
Robbie Keane
Born n bred in darndale.
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Posted: 10 Jan 2022 at 11:59am |
This is key from above.
Idah turns 21 next month, and across 2 years in Norwich's senior squad he's got 49 appearances. Only 7 starts. For Ireland, 13 caps (10 starts), 0 goals, 0 assists, barely a shot on target.
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It was far across the sea, When the devil got a hold of me, He wouldn't set me free, So he kept me soul for ransom. na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na. I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to
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Het-field
Roy Keane
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Posted: 10 Jan 2022 at 12:12pm |
To me, the issue here is that to find contextual comfort we are analysing the number of minutes played by somebody in the PL, and trying to tell ourselves that it is okay. We’ve hit rock bottom in terms of striking options.
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Hotlips_Hoolahan
Jack Charlton
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Posted: 10 Jan 2022 at 12:14pm |
Het-field wrote:
To me, the issue here is that to find contextual comfort we are analysing the number of minutes played by somebody in the PL, and trying to tell ourselves that it is okay. We’ve hit rock bottom in terms of striking options. |
If only vodka and red bull had the same effect on Connolly that spinach has on Popeye. We'd be happy out.
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Fozz
Liam Brady
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Posted: 10 Jan 2022 at 12:18pm |
Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:
If only vodka and red bull had the same effect on Connolly that spinach has on Popeye. We'd be happy out. |
Does every second thread need to turn into anti-Connolly drink-related nonsense?
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Fruice
Liam Brady
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Posted: 10 Jan 2022 at 12:18pm |
horsebox wrote:
This is key from above.
Idah turns 21 next month, and across 2 years in Norwich's senior squad he's got 49 appearances. Only 7 starts. For Ireland, 13 caps (10 starts), 0 goals, 0 assists, barely a shot on target.
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Let’s be honest here he is playing in sides that don’t create many chances and score less so any striker would struggle to get goals in these teams.
Had he not been injured last season he wouldn’t have been far off 10 championship goals.
If he got that and above next year with Norwich most likely back in the championship that would be fantastic for him.
Dean Smith plays good attacking football too in the championship
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