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sid waddell
Roy Keane
On a dark desert highway
Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12173
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Posted: 03 Mar 2021 at 10:48am |
Shedite wrote:
thebronze14 wrote:
sid waddell wrote:
Sure there used to be loads of stadiums without roofs used at World Cups, most of them probably
Even up to France 98 this was the case to an extent
The cut off point came with the 2002 World Cup
Pretty much everything from that on was FIFAland
The US is an exception, they build their stadiums differently, they're usually either domes or fully open air with no cover at all
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From watching on TV every match post 2006 looks like it was played in the same stadium nearly | Yeah, watching the games played in neutral stadiums in Champions League last month, those stadiums in Budapest/Bucharest could have passed for anywhere in Europe. Very boring |
All seater stadiums were the worst thing to ever happen to football
There's a reason why stadiums like Fenway Park and Wrigley Field are so cherished in the US, I know US stadiums are all seater but the character and architecture of a stadium matters too
Given that music festivals take place quite safely in big fields, it's astounding that football authorities cannot see the benefit of standing areas with reduced price tickets to the game as a PRODUCT
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Borussia
Roy Keane
Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 10764
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Posted: 03 Mar 2021 at 10:58am |
sid waddell wrote:
Shedite wrote:
thebronze14 wrote:
sid waddell wrote:
Sure there used to be loads of stadiums without roofs used at World Cups, most of them probably
Even up to France 98 this was the case to an extent
The cut off point came with the 2002 World Cup
Pretty much everything from that on was FIFAland
The US is an exception, they build their stadiums differently, they're usually either domes or fully open air with no cover at all
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From watching on TV every match post 2006 looks like it was played in the same stadium nearly | Yeah, watching the games played in neutral stadiums in Champions League last month, those stadiums in Budapest/Bucharest could have passed for anywhere in Europe. Very boring |
All seater stadiums were the worst thing to ever happen to football
There's a reason why stadiums like Fenway Park and Wrigley Field are so cherished in the US, I know US stadiums are all seater but the character and architecture of a stadium matters too
Given that music festivals take place quite safely in big fields, it's astounding that football authorities cannot see the benefit of standing areas with reduced price tickets to the game as a PRODUCT |
The likes of Germany allow standing and there are pushes in the UK to get safe standing in also. I don't think you can tie all seater stadia to the lack of imagination in design - There are some good examples of all seater stadia that are a bit different and do add to character and atmosphere. There are just far too many new stadia that lack imagination.
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Het-field
Roy Keane
By Appointment to His Majesty The King
Joined: 08 Mar 2016
Status: Online
Points: 10717
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Posted: 03 Mar 2021 at 11:01am |
Also, all seater, is all seater in name. In most PL grounds the folks behind the goal stand up for the duration, and it is impossible to police given the sheer numbers. Away fans en masse also seem to spend the duration of the game standing. It really is time progress safe standing. And a lot of clubs seem open to it.
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Claret Murph
Paul McGrath
Hmmm, Goodness, I must say
Joined: 16 Apr 2009
Location: Tibet
Status: Offline
Points: 15758
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Posted: 03 Mar 2021 at 11:17am |
And not forgetting our very own Standing Section in 144
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Lansdowne Road debut aged 52 and 201 days .
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Sham157
Moderator Group
Joined: 17 Jul 2009
Location: Monaghan/Dublin
Status: Offline
Points: 33212
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Posted: 03 Mar 2021 at 11:19am |
Claret Murph wrote:
And not forgetting our very own Standing Section in 144 |
Singing Section 114.
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Claret Murph
Paul McGrath
Hmmm, Goodness, I must say
Joined: 16 Apr 2009
Location: Tibet
Status: Offline
Points: 15758
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Posted: 03 Mar 2021 at 11:22am |
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Lansdowne Road debut aged 52 and 201 days .
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sid waddell
Roy Keane
On a dark desert highway
Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12173
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Posted: 03 Mar 2021 at 11:26am |
Borussia wrote:
sid waddell wrote:
Shedite wrote:
thebronze14 wrote:
sid waddell wrote:
Sure there used to be loads of stadiums without roofs used at World Cups, most of them probably
Even up to France 98 this was the case to an extent
The cut off point came with the 2002 World Cup
Pretty much everything from that on was FIFAland
The US is an exception, they build their stadiums differently, they're usually either domes or fully open air with no cover at all
|
From watching on TV every match post 2006 looks like it was played in the same stadium nearly | Yeah, watching the games played in neutral stadiums in Champions League last month, those stadiums in Budapest/Bucharest could have passed for anywhere in Europe. Very boring |
All seater stadiums were the worst thing to ever happen to football
There's a reason why stadiums like Fenway Park and Wrigley Field are so cherished in the US, I know US stadiums are all seater but the character and architecture of a stadium matters too
Given that music festivals take place quite safely in big fields, it's astounding that football authorities cannot see the benefit of standing areas with reduced price tickets to the game as a PRODUCT |
The likes of Germany allow standing and there are pushes in the UK to get safe standing in also. I don't think you can tie all seater stadia to the lack of imagination in design - There are some good examples of all seater stadia that are a bit different and do add to character and atmosphere. There are just far too many new stadia that lack imagination. |
There are a couple of "genres" of modern stadiums that lend themselves very well to atmosphere even if they are all seater
One is the group of heavily modernised stadiums in Germany - the best examples of this are Dortmund and particularly the Fritz Walter Stadion in Kaiserslautern, which has roofs which slope down, which you hardly ever see in modern stadiums - there was something about an old style sloping roof which was terrific for creating atmospheres - high roofs which slope slightly upward are terrible for atmosphere
Italy v Australia in the 2006 World Cup was played in Kaiserlautern and I felt the setting added a lot to the occasion and helped turned it into a "classic" World Cup game even if it wasn't actually a great game in football terms
The other is 1980s South African rugby grounds - Ellis Park, Newlands, Loftus Versfeld and particularly King's Park Durban
Horrible regime but they were very good at building modern, atmospheric stadiums - almost uniquely, they managed to make corporate boxes a feature of stadiums rather than something which takes away from the atmosphere
The Bombonera does this too
The 1994 partial rebuild of the Bernabeu was an exceptional job - they managed to build the new tiers in a very "lurky" way, very steep and almost on top of the pitch
It made an already very good stadium into a great stadium
I presume the new redevelopment will ruin it
The really steep third tier at the Mestalla in Valencia which was also built in the early 90s added a huge amount there in terms of atmosphere and architectural ambience
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Borussia
Roy Keane
Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 10764
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Posted: 03 Mar 2021 at 11:29am |
On the same note, for a new stadium the Millennium stadium in Cardiff is great for atmosphere even when the roof is open. Steep, close to the pitch etc. Best stadium in that regard in the UK for me.
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Het-field
Roy Keane
By Appointment to His Majesty The King
Joined: 08 Mar 2016
Status: Online
Points: 10717
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Posted: 03 Mar 2021 at 11:37am |
The Millennium Stadium is exactly what a modern stadium should be, in on my eyes. The sloping tiers are excellent in that you lose very little by being a distance from the pitch, and the lower tiers are wonderfully close to the pitch. My understanding is that there remains some of the old Arm's Park edifice, which forms part of the sloping North Stand, which is a joy to watch games in.
At a time when Stadium design brought us Pride Park, the Stadium of Light, the Riverside etc, it was a very refreshing and unique way of building a stadium.
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Shedite
Jack Charlton
Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 9823
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Posted: 03 Mar 2021 at 11:37am |
Yeah I think all seater can work, it's the boring bowl design that gets me. Stadiums like Emirates, Bilbao, Estadio do Luz in Lisbon, Bucharest stadium, all look the exact same these days
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Het-field
Roy Keane
By Appointment to His Majesty The King
Joined: 08 Mar 2016
Status: Online
Points: 10717
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Posted: 03 Mar 2021 at 11:41am |
Shedite wrote:
Yeah I think all seater can work, it's the boring bowl design that gets me. Stadiums like Emirates, Bilbao, Estadio do Luz in Lisbon, Bucharest stadium, all look the exact same these days |
Also, one of the sad things about this development, is that a number of newers stadiums are built on the fringes of the places they used represent. So many clubs in the 1990s and 2000s left their homes which were located on residential streets, and close to residential areas for business parks and industrial estates, which could easily accommodate large venues, but there is little charm and very little too differentiate. Its part of the reason I would be so resistance to any efforts to replace the Hill 16 terrace (a potential limited by logistic reasons) with a mirror image of the Canal End.
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theheff1989
Ray Houghton
My name badge won a prize
Joined: 08 May 2012
Location: Wexford
Status: Offline
Points: 4667
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Posted: 03 Mar 2021 at 11:47am |
Would Mexico 86 or Spain 82 last World Cup with terracing? Think 1990 all seater.
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sid waddell
Roy Keane
On a dark desert highway
Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12173
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Posted: 03 Mar 2021 at 12:08pm |
theheff1989 wrote:
Would Mexico 86 or Spain 82 last World Cup with terracing? Think 1990 all seater.
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'82 I think
Some of the '86 stadiums seemed to use concrete bench seating which wouldn't be allowed now
I think the Rose Bowl used wooden bench seating actually in '94
Terracing was allowed at UEFA events up to 1992, Euro '92 had terracing
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Het-field
Roy Keane
By Appointment to His Majesty The King
Joined: 08 Mar 2016
Status: Online
Points: 10717
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Posted: 03 Mar 2021 at 12:09pm |
Stanford Stadium was also wooden benched. Cool looking stadium.
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sid waddell
Roy Keane
On a dark desert highway
Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12173
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Posted: 03 Mar 2021 at 12:25pm |
Het-field wrote:
Shedite wrote:
Yeah I think all seater can work, it's the boring bowl design that gets me. Stadiums like Emirates, Bilbao, Estadio do Luz in Lisbon, Bucharest stadium, all look the exact same these days |
Also, one of the sad things about this development, is that a number of newers stadiums are built on the fringes of the places they used represent. So many clubs in the 1990s and 2000s left their homes which were located on residential streets, and close to residential areas for business parks and industrial estates, which could easily accommodate large venues, but there is little charm and very little too differentiate. Its part of the reason I would be so resistance to any efforts to replace the Hill 16 terrace (a potential limited by logistic reasons) with a mirror image of the Canal End. |
Michael Walker wrote an article about this years ago, and of course the club he focussed on was Bolton, where he used to regularly attend matches, because they are the prototype of this
He talked about the leisurely walk from the centre of Bolton out to Burnden Park, less than a mile, with familiar watering holes lining the way
How in the mid 90s there was a feeling that the club was in the up, Burnden Park was a great place to go to watch football, good FA Cup runs and promotion runs, reaching the League Cup final, I think most people here remember that Bolton team with John McGinlay, Alan Stubbs, Jason McAteer, Alan Thompson
Ironically part of that optimism in the mid 90s was associated with the new stadium then being built, only Middlesbrough up to that had built a plastic bowl and the feeling was that because this new stadium was new, it would automatically be good, better than what Bolton had then
The when the new stadium arrived, the reality set in, the place was a cold, soulless windswept dump, six miles outside Bolton, halfway to Wigan, beside a motorway junction and a Tesco
A line he wrote stuck with me: "there's a sense that the future never happened for Bolton Wanderers"
West Ham supporters' dissatisfaction now is based on their supporters thoroughly despising the Olympic Stadium and if any team has benefitted from no spectators, it's West Ham
They're pretty much stuck there though, at least until the place is inevitably razed to the ground and rebuilt in about 15 years' time
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sid waddell
Roy Keane
On a dark desert highway
Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 12173
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Posted: 03 Mar 2021 at 12:31pm |
Het-field wrote:
Stanford Stadium was also wooden benched. Cool looking stadium. |
Demolished now and replaced with a smaller rectangular stadium
San Francisco 49ers' new stadium strikes me as an NFL version of the Bolton turkey phenomenon
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Het-field
Roy Keane
By Appointment to His Majesty The King
Joined: 08 Mar 2016
Status: Online
Points: 10717
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Posted: 03 Mar 2021 at 12:40pm |
sid waddell wrote:
Michael Walker wrote an article about this years ago, and of course the club he focussed on was Bolton, where he used to regularly attend matches, because they are the prototype of this
He talked about the leisurely walk from the centre of Bolton out to Burnden Park, less than a mile, with familiar watering holes lining the way
How in the mid 90s there was a feeling that the club was in the up, Burnden Park was a great place to go to watch football, good FA Cup runs and promotion runs, reaching the League Cup final, I think most people here remember that Bolton team with John McGinlay, Alan Stubbs, Jason McAteer, Alan Thompson
Ironically part of that optimism in the mid 90s was associated with the new stadium then being built, only Middlesbrough up to that had built a plastic bowl and the feeling was that because this new stadium was new, it would automatically be good, better than what Bolton had then
The when the new stadium arrived, the reality set in, the place was a cold, soulless windswept dump, six miles outside Bolton, halfway to Wigan, beside a motorway junction and a Tesco
A line he wrote stuck with me: "there's a sense that the future never happened for Bolton Wanderers"
West Ham supporters' dissatisfaction now is based on their supporters thoroughly despising the Olympic Stadium and if any team has benefitted from no spectators, it's West Ham
They're pretty much stuck there though, at least until the place is inevitably razed to the ground and rebuilt in about 15 years' time
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Its difficult for fans of teams that loved their old grounds, before being moved, always with the promise of longer term growth and success. The Championship and lower is festooned with teams in ostensibly "nice" stadiums, but on the whole, they are soulless, and removed from the original experience. Also, when times are good, the places might be full. As these teams tumble down the league the seats are emptied, the football becomes less motivating to watch, and the actual extent of the fanbase becomes clear. Its a sign of the emperor having no clothes.
With WHU the issues run a lot deeper, and the ground is just one of the issues at the moment. The think is, as long as the current administration is in place, the ground will remain the same as it is.
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Shedite
Jack Charlton
Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 9823
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Posted: 03 Mar 2021 at 12:44pm |
sid waddell wrote:
Het-field wrote:
Stanford Stadium was also wooden benched. Cool looking stadium. |
Demolished now and replaced with a smaller rectangular stadium
San Francisco 49ers' new stadium strikes me as an NFL version of the Bolton turkey phenomenon |
Yeah I've a few friends living in the area. Getting to the new stadium is 90mns from downtown, feck all public transport
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