World Cup 2018 Group A- RUS/KSA/EGY/URU |
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SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
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Eh, I never said I didn't understand your post. I get your point; however, those things are impossible to quantify. Also, addressing them head on, why would Russia need to run like blue-arsed flies against Saudi? Sure they had the lead for most of the game. Russia ran more than anyone else in a 4pm game, while teams in later games, in cooler locations, haven't run that far. It's very suspicious, no matter whether you deal with it as raw figures, or whether you contextualise it by reference to other, immeasurable factors. How do you propose to account for "style of play" in assessing if it is suspicious or not? Long and short of it, the numbers are a red flag, and not the good kind with a hammer and sickle.
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UCDFAN
Liam Brady Joined: 10 May 2009 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 1700 |
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Did you interrupt yourself? there was no need. As you are probably already aware Style of Play can be quantified. Thank you for allowing me to find at least this research. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02640414.2016.1169309 "In conclusion, 12 (eight attacking and four defensive) different playing styles and associated performance indicators utilised in elite soccer were identified in this data set. Furthermore, the selected factors together explained 87.54% of the variance. The degree to which a team relies on a specific style can be determined based on the team’s score for each factor. " As I mentioned score-line, tempeture (var. spelling),Time of Day. A couple more: km covered per goals scored; km covered per points earned. Russia would return low kilometre numbers for those last two. The Sport includes these considerations, effort/outcome ratios everywhere, both informal and formal. The source spreadsheet ignores all of that but uses a single indicator to confirm bias of the author. But the Sport has to put in resources to respond to partial information, it would be helpful if Supporters of the Sport would challenge the partial information closer to the source. So there's a chance the quality of the information can improve. Atm the partial and incomplete information is been distributed and defended. Russia Senior 'A' is probably too polite to comment on the inconsistency of "a little curious"/"very suspicious". |
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www.ucdsupporters.ie
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SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
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The data is all there: is there a model that shows that Russia's running isn't suspiciously high, using some or all of the variables you've pointed out? The closest we have is raw data that suggests that it is. Even modifying for variables like temperature, humidity and time of day, Russia's km covered is already high. They were not playing in cool, dry, non-humid cities in the evening time, like the games in Yekaterinburg, Kazan or Nizhny. The single indicator used is easily the best single indicator. If you have a model that shows how it isn't suspicious, now's the time to show it, rather than just criticising the conclusions based on the data without showing how it is wrong. Also, to be clear, I didn't say it was "a little curious", I said it was "more than a little curious". That's not inconsistent with "very suspicious". If you're going to be a pedant, it helps to be right.
Edited by SuperDave84 - 21 Jun 2018 at 5:38pm |
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UCDFAN
Liam Brady Joined: 10 May 2009 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 1700 |
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The accusers, that want to find a problem, outside the Sport and after the event get to determine the value of 'suspiciously high'? "Suspiciously high" isnt given a specific value but the Sport's team must still qualify below that. Football should reject such testing environments. The defence of difficult to prove a negative can be presented. Making-up measurements with gaps that the Sport is expected to find resources to fill can be challenged very easily. The km covered total shows the km covered for that team at that time and nothing else. It's possible to use km covered with another stat (eg goals, shots on goal) and the comparison is with the direct opposition. Because they both competed in the same environment. That's a sporting conversation. The Sport has to continue to challenge suspicions based on Nationality of the Athletes.
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Denis Irwin
Robbie Keane Stay Home & watch Lethal Weapon Joined: 03 Feb 2008 Location: Ath Cliath Status: Online Points: 37956 |
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The accusations aren't being made on nationality. The chap has put up a spreadsheet outlining it
Edited by Denis Irwin - 21 Jun 2018 at 6:14pm |
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Denis Irwin
Robbie Keane Stay Home & watch Lethal Weapon Joined: 03 Feb 2008 Location: Ath Cliath Status: Online Points: 37956 |
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UCDFAN is Russian or of Russian origin I reckon
Edited by Denis Irwin - 21 Jun 2018 at 6:15pm |
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Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".
Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn |
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SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
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His brutally garbled English, bizarre syntax and unnecessary capitalisation would certainly lead to that conclusion... not to mention the inability to answer a straight question, and attacking the person raising the question as biased rather than actually addressing the issue in dispute. I'm done with him.
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UCDFAN
Liam Brady Joined: 10 May 2009 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 1700 |
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@Denis Irwin
Read the intro in the tweet. Russia -> skepticism based on Nationality -> Presented partial info divided by Nationality -> bias satisfied -> The Sport now has to put in resources to respond. You're welcome to continue to identify me and others based on Nationality, it's how you roamed.
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Denis Irwin
Robbie Keane Stay Home & watch Lethal Weapon Joined: 03 Feb 2008 Location: Ath Cliath Status: Online Points: 37956 |
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As am I It's quite clear he can't accept genuine criticism/ questioning of Russia that is backed up . So he's resorting to the race card
Edited by Denis Irwin - 21 Jun 2018 at 6:33pm |
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Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".
Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn |
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UCDFAN
Liam Brady Joined: 10 May 2009 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 1700 |
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The initial tweet identifies Nationality as a motivator to find a problem. Superdave84 opening sentence to me talks about beta version Google Translate. But it's someone else's fault.
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irishmufc
Robbie Keane I love Vulvas Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Location: Dublin Status: Offline Points: 25097 |
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No dinner for UCD fan tonight. |
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Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
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lassassinblanc
Paul McGrath Cheese, it’s not just for eating Joined: 27 Sep 2010 Location: Clairefontaine Status: Online Points: 16478 |
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Tbf that was some meal SD made
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Denis Irwin
Robbie Keane Stay Home & watch Lethal Weapon Joined: 03 Feb 2008 Location: Ath Cliath Status: Online Points: 37956 |
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What thread was that in again ?
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Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".
Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn |
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SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
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The f**k you thread, that's where.
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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Crushed basil butter peas!
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irishmufc
Robbie Keane I love Vulvas Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Location: Dublin Status: Offline Points: 25097 |
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Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
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lassassinblanc
Paul McGrath Cheese, it’s not just for eating Joined: 27 Sep 2010 Location: Clairefontaine Status: Online Points: 16478 |
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Denis Irwin
Robbie Keane Stay Home & watch Lethal Weapon Joined: 03 Feb 2008 Location: Ath Cliath Status: Online Points: 37956 |
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Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".
Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn |
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