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The 8th - Repealed!
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Poll Question: Will you vote to Repeal the 8th amendment?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
74 [64.35%]
41 [35.65%]
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Roy Keane
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Just reading some of the online comments in social media from the Pro-Lifers would make you sick...
 
A baby is a baby regardless of whether it's 2 weeks in the womb or 12 weeks.... there's a hidden agenda here by the government and they're up to something, this won't be just as per the referendum.
 
What kind of special case thinks like this?
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by UCDFAN UCDFAN wrote:


Sorry the first two lines of the second paragraph.
"Right to personal Medical Decision
Right for Women to make personal decision over body
Previously Right to Travel was an Abortion issue. "
Messages in this 2018 campaign which remind voters of these entitlements. These same messages could've been used to challenge 27th Amendment where the proponents crimalised women who were pregnant in Ireland.

It didn't criminalise anybody. It was about the constitutional right to citizenship by virtue of being born on the island. People were still entitled to have their babies on the island, and people could have babies overseas and still claim citizenship.
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Originally posted by bhob bhob wrote:

Just reading some of the online comments in social media from the Pro-Lifers would make you sick...
 
A baby is a baby regardless of whether it's 2 weeks in the womb or 12 weeks.... there's a hidden agenda here by the government and they're up to something, this won't be just as per the referendum.
 
What kind of special case thinks like this?

why does this make you sick?
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by bhob bhob wrote:

Just reading some of the online comments in social media from the Pro-Lifers would make you sick...
 
A baby is a baby regardless of whether it's 2 weeks in the womb or 12 weeks.... there's a hidden agenda here by the government and they're up to something, this won't be just as per the referendum.
 
What kind of special case thinks like this?

I've mentioned he timeline here before. Most people won't actually know they are pregnant until they are 6-8 weeks along. The first four weeks of the pregnancy covers the gap between the last period and the conception of the child, which is hard to calculate. But by the time you'll know that you're pregnant and have it confirmed and have had a scan, you'll be able to see the heartbeat, and that can be within two weeks of actual conception.

When life brings is a hard moral question.
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Originally posted by Shedite Shedite wrote:

Originally posted by BigPodge BigPodge wrote:

No voters invaded Arklow yesterday!

It was the usual aggressive carry on of handing leaflets to children with graphic pictures on them  (I've heard this happen a lot), yelling at people, stopping cars etc.

Though the best story of all is that a priest told 2 young girls that they needed to be shot!

You can't help but laugh at them ClownLOL
You see, all these stories that "definitely happen" are making the pro-abortion side even worse than the anti-abortion side. We have no evidence of any of this, just stories that get passed from word of mount to make one side look worse. The pro-abortion side is really shooting itself in the foot with all these stories doing the rounds on Twitter. Stick to the facts and they'll win. Engage in this nonsense and they'll lose.


Eh the incidents were witnessed by a family member Confused
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I’d be of the opinion this should be a women’s issue, voted on by the women of this country , why should men get to vote on women’s health ??
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Originally posted by oldbilly oldbilly wrote:

I’d be of the opinion this should be a women’s issue, voted on by the women of this country , why should men get to vote on women’s health ??
 
Why did straight people get to vote on the marriage referendum? It's a societal issue and therefore should be voted on by society as a whole.
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Roy Keane
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Classic Hendrix

Well I'm lying here pregnant
Inside an Irish hospital
Got a septic foetus inside my wall
Tonight's the night to abort and make me healthy
Come on Doctor, now, there's no time to stall
But now you're telling me

I think we better wait 'til you're dyin'
Yeah, yeah,
I think we better wait 'til you're dyin'
Girl what you talkin' about
I think we better wait you're dyin'

Got to make sure it's died

So until tomorrow goodnight

Oh what a drag

Oh Savita, how can we hang you out this way
On the phone you said you felt you might die today
Now you're lying there like some
Turned down serenaded fool
Hearing strange words stutter from the mixed-up mind of you
And I keep telling you that ah


I think we better wait til' you're dyin'
What are you talkin' about
I think we better wait til' you're dyin'
Ah, I can't wait that long
I think we better wait til you're dyin'

Got to make sure it's died
So until tomorrow goodnight

Oh the 8th Amendment must be insane
Makes us so unsure of ourselves
Compulsory malpractice it's so arcane
Do I see a silhouette of somebody pointing
Someone from repeal
Beep beep
Oh what a f**k up mommy just turned green
And I hear you say as you fade away

Why'd you have to wait til' I'm dyin'
Hey
Why'd have to wait til' I'm dyin'
What you say
Why'd you have to wait til' I'm dyin'

We must not have been right
So forever goodnight
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Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by bhob bhob wrote:

Just reading some of the online comments in social media from the Pro-Lifers would make you sick...
 
A baby is a baby regardless of whether it's 2 weeks in the womb or 12 weeks.... there's a hidden agenda here by the government and they're up to something, this won't be just as per the referendum.
 
What kind of special case thinks like this?

I've mentioned he timeline here before. Most people won't actually know they are pregnant until they are 6-8 weeks along. The first four weeks of the pregnancy covers the gap between the last period and the conception of the child, which is hard to calculate. But by the time you'll know that you're pregnant and have it confirmed and have had a scan, you'll be able to see the heartbeat, and that can be within two weeks of actual conception.

When life brings is a hard moral question.

this is all true. no woman knows they are 2 weeks pregnant. that said, i don't buy into the argument that a baby at 10 weeks is any less of a baby than one at 12 weeks, or 40 weeks for that matter. abortion is ending a life. you can dress it up however you like but that is the truth. you are making a conscious decision to stop someones life. there is therefore a question about morality and who can make that decision. morality is not a question of following church doctrine. 

the extreme cases (rape, incest) often cloud the debate when in reality they make up for only a tiny percentage of abortions.  they should be debated as part of the wider debate but often these emotive issues distract from the core issue which is what is more important - a woman's choice or that of an unborn child. 
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Originally posted by oldbilly oldbilly wrote:

I’d be of the opinion this should be a women’s issue, voted on by the women of this country , why should men get to vote on women’s health ??
Maybe to vote on behalf of your daughter and daughters everywhere who are too young to vote so that their welfare is taken care of in years to come? Just one of the many reasons why men should have a vote
Some people just deserve a slap
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by oldbilly oldbilly wrote:

I’d be of the opinion this should be a women’s issue, voted on by the women of this country , why should men get to vote on women’s health ??

It's also a constitutional issue, which makes it applicable across the board.
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by UCDFAN UCDFAN wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by UCDFAN UCDFAN wrote:


No, it's some of the YES campaign 2018 that could be used for the defence of the defeated NO campaign of the 27th.

Right to personal Medical Decision
Right for Women to make personal decision over body
Previously Right to Travel was an Abortion issue.

The Single Equality Ground equalists for Gender don't seem to link 27th and 8th/36th because 27th was Ethnicity/Nationality and 8th/36th is Gender.

My politics links 27th and 8th/36th campaigns. I'd be into multi-Equality Ground politics.




Okay. Fair enough.

But what aspects of the cdampaign could have been used in both cases?

Sorry the first two lines of the second paragraph.
"Right to personal Medical Decision
Right for Women to make personal decision over body
Previously Right to Travel was an Abortion issue. "
Messages in this 2018 campaign which remind voters of these entitlements. These same messages could've been used to challenge 27th Amendment where the proponents crimalised women who were pregnant in Ireland.

What verbal gymnastics could you possibly engage in to make a coherent argument that the 27th Amendment criminalised pregnant women in Ireland?
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by oldbilly oldbilly wrote:

I’d be of the opinion this should be a women’s issue, voted on by the women of this country , why should men get to vote on women’s health ??

I presume you will not be voting?
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by randyrandolph randyrandolph wrote:

Originally posted by bhob bhob wrote:

Just reading some of the online comments in social media from the Pro-Lifers would make you sick...
 
A baby is a baby regardless of whether it's 2 weeks in the womb or 12 weeks.... there's a hidden agenda here by the government and they're up to something, this won't be just as per the referendum.
 
What kind of special case thinks like this?

why does this make you sick?

I too would like to know that. There has been some truly awful stuff thrown around on social media but I don't see how a statement like that could be considered one of them, even if you fundamentally disagree with it. 
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by randyrandolph randyrandolph wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by bhob bhob wrote:

Just reading some of the online comments in social media from the Pro-Lifers would make you sick...
 
A baby is a baby regardless of whether it's 2 weeks in the womb or 12 weeks.... there's a hidden agenda here by the government and they're up to something, this won't be just as per the referendum.
 
What kind of special case thinks like this?

I've mentioned he timeline here before. Most people won't actually know they are pregnant until they are 6-8 weeks along. The first four weeks of the pregnancy covers the gap between the last period and the conception of the child, which is hard to calculate. But by the time you'll know that you're pregnant and have it confirmed and have had a scan, you'll be able to see the heartbeat, and that can be within two weeks of actual conception.

When life brings is a hard moral question.

this is all true. no woman knows they are 2 weeks pregnant. that said, i don't buy into the argument that a baby at 10 weeks is any less of a baby than one at 12 weeks, or 40 weeks for that matter. abortion is ending a life. you can dress it up however you like but that is the truth. you are making a conscious decision to stop someones life. there is therefore a question about morality and who can make that decision. morality is not a question of following church doctrine. 

the extreme cases (rape, incest) often cloud the debate when in reality they make up for only a tiny percentage of abortions.  they should be debated as part of the wider debate but often these emotive issues distract from the core issue which is what is more important - a woman's choice or that of an unborn child. 



This is simplistic drivel. 

It would take me a while to explain exactly why, but believe me, it's simplistic drivel. 

Banning abortion is unworkable, cowardly, and leads to devastating outcomes for women.

No supporters like to talk about "extreme cases". 

That's an admission that the 8th Amendment isn't worth the paper it's written on because it's the 8th Amendment that creates extreme cases. 

You cant deal with these cases without a massive overhaul of the abortion laws.
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Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by randyrandolph randyrandolph wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by bhob bhob wrote:

Just reading some of the online comments in social media from the Pro-Lifers would make you sick...
 
A baby is a baby regardless of whether it's 2 weeks in the womb or 12 weeks.... there's a hidden agenda here by the government and they're up to something, this won't be just as per the referendum.
 
What kind of special case thinks like this?

I've mentioned he timeline here before. Most people won't actually know they are pregnant until they are 6-8 weeks along. The first four weeks of the pregnancy covers the gap between the last period and the conception of the child, which is hard to calculate. But by the time you'll know that you're pregnant and have it confirmed and have had a scan, you'll be able to see the heartbeat, and that can be within two weeks of actual conception.

When life brings is a hard moral question.

this is all true. no woman knows they are 2 weeks pregnant. that said, i don't buy into the argument that a baby at 10 weeks is any less of a baby than one at 12 weeks, or 40 weeks for that matter. abortion is ending a life. you can dress it up however you like but that is the truth. you are making a conscious decision to stop someones life. there is therefore a question about morality and who can make that decision. morality is not a question of following church doctrine. 

the extreme cases (rape, incest) often cloud the debate when in reality they make up for only a tiny percentage of abortions.  they should be debated as part of the wider debate but often these emotive issues distract from the core issue which is what is more important - a woman's choice or that of an unborn child. 



This is simplistic drivel. 

It would take me a while to explain exactly why, but believe me, it's simplistic drivel. 

Banning abortion is unworkable, cowardly, and leads to devastating outcomes for women.

No supporters like to talk about "extreme cases". 

That's an admission that the 8th Amendment isn't worth the paper it's written on because it's the 8th Amendment that creates extreme cases. 

You cant deal with these cases without a massive overhaul of the abortion laws.




i agree with the majority of that (bar the condensing opening)... i think a lot of "soft no voters" sorry to coin a brexit-like phrase... would love to see an overhaul/ amendment of abortion laws. for the record i cant vote, but if i could i would vote against repeal. That said i do agree there are many cases where abortion is warranted. 
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Roy Keane
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Not to be a pedant, but it's not so much abortion laws that need the overhaul (as they don't really exist per se), but the constitutional anomaly which limits clarity around when the grey areas can be dealt with.

This referendum needs to be fought on the grey issues, with specific emphasis on the constitutional anomaly which damages the ability to deal with the grey areas.
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Davey Langan
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.

Edited by RKeane - 09 May 2018 at 4:20pm
YESSSS! IT'S THERE
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