The 8th - Repealed! |
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greenforever
Jack Charlton Joined: 07 Apr 2008 Status: Offline Points: 6342 |
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Your opinion I would not class myself as been on the No side I do believe that this will happen Will it make me vote No? No Why is it utter nonsense - how can you say what will or won't happen in the future |
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I know nothing :-)
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9fingers
Paul McGrath Ballymun Resident #MONKEANO Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 16154 |
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It’s nonsense because it’s not what you’re being asked to vote on.
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Online Points: 10744 |
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Sorry to jump in on this. I agree that the "thin edge of the wedge" ought to be considered when discussing constitutional and legal matters. It is not tin foil hat territory, or should it be ignored as an inconvenient truth. However, Ireland will undoubtedly act within the confines of general European practice, which will give rise to 12 weeks as the cut off point. I would also suspect this will be a tighter vote, which will be used, politically, as indicative of a willingness to liberalise and vest power of autonomy in medical professionals and their patients, but not to provide for an unusually liberalised system, and political will in a generally conservative country will act as a valve on future change, at least in the medium term.
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SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
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As I've said above, the twelve week limit is not going in the Constitution. The "thin end of the wedge" argument is not defeated by the wording of the proposed amendment, no matter how it might otherwise be defeated.
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Online Points: 10744 |
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I never claimed it would form part of the amendment. And it will be up to the Oireachtas as to how the actually system will be devised, and implemented. The thin edge issue for me has become more relevant given the flurry of constitutional activity that the previous government engaged in, which has long term negative potentials, which needed to be illustrated, and taken on board.
Edited by Het-field - 28 Mar 2018 at 1:10pm |
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bhob
Roy Keane YBIGs Donald Trump Joined: 13 Feb 2009 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 10470 |
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Aren't they looking to put a 75% majority vote for the 12 weeks to be amended in any way in the future? Did I hear that correctly somewhere?
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Online Points: 10744 |
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I think that was what was being proposed. But that would almost certainly be unconstitutional, as it would bind future governments.
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SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
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You did, until Coveney was given a basic lesson in constitutional democracy and told that was bollocks. Any Act of the Oireachtas has to be capable of being repealed by the Oireachtas by simple majority of the Oireachtas. Like they couldn't pass an Act that said "any future repeal of this act has to be unanimous". It's a basic constitutional norm. |
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Shedite
Jack Charlton Joined: 09 Dec 2011 Status: Online Points: 9829 |
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It's a funny one really isn't it. Essentially we're being asked do we want:
a. Law to stay as it is b. Law to change to something else (but we won't tell you yet what that is)
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Shedite
Jack Charlton Joined: 09 Dec 2011 Status: Online Points: 9829 |
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SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
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Dalymount79
Liam Brady Joined: 17 Oct 2013 Status: Offline Points: 1545 |
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A yes for me. The current constitution doesn't work and discriminates. Those with the resources (financial, access, support) to go through with an abortion for the wide spectrum of reasons are able to do so. Those who don't have the resources can't - financial, fear, access.
I try to avoid the emotive side but the situation of parents bringing feotuses home for burial in car boots or vacuum packed is horrific. Religious Faith should not be in the debate. Personal pain not been able to have children I have great sympathy for but I don't think is relevant. Edited by Dalymount79 - 28 Mar 2018 at 1:54pm |
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bogball88
Liam Brady Joined: 16 May 2016 Location: Throne Status: Offline Points: 2674 |
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Just as I was thinking that our great glorious leader had been quite quiet on the issue...
https://www.irishnews.com/news/2018/03/28/news/tyrone-gaa-manger-mickey-harte-backs-no-vote-ahead-of-abortion-referendum-in-republic-1289344/ |
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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In one.
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OnTheOneRoad
Ray Houghton Joined: 06 Nov 2014 Location: Dublin Status: Offline Points: 4190 |
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Agree. Indeed, the areas where "Save the 8th" campaign most heavily are those that are most disadvantaged. they have numerous ads in the north inner city but you dont see many in Ballsbridge. The women in these areas are precisely the ones who are more likely to get trapped by the amendment - those who do not have the means to travel. It is insidious campaigning. the 'pro-life' side are not bothering targeting those who live in areas that would imply a better standard of living conditions. they would rather target the more vulnerable with their fearmongering. Put it this way. With this debate at the forefront of society a number of pressure groups have sprung up to 'save the 8th' with the argument usually being some variant of the idea that "all life is precious". If we take them at face value and give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not being disingenuous here - why are these groups not staging marches pressuring the government to provide socioeconomic guarantees in the constitution; increased benefits for single mothers in poor areas, more children's hospitals and so on if they are so concerned about the preciousness of the life of the child? The reason for that is that it's not that these people are pro-life - that would suggest they give a f**k what happens to the child after it is born. They are pro-birth and nothing more. Religious dogma and a desire to retain the last bastion of theocratic control in Ireland drives these particular groups rather than the wellbeing of the child.
Edited by OnTheOneRoad - 28 Mar 2018 at 2:34pm |
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No thank you Turkish......I'm sweet enough
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Butch
Ray Houghton Joined: 16 Oct 2014 Status: Offline Points: 3358 |
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The uk have recently as last week and said that due to increased numbers that they will start refusing Irish patients and prioritising their oen patients
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Online Points: 10744 |
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Campaigns like this will always focus their attention on where they are likely to get most traction. The anti-EU crowd were highly focussed on that area too, with their "They Died for Your Freedom" style argument, which buys into the allegedly nationalistic and Republican tendencies in socio-economically deprived areas. The same applies to candidates who are further away from the centre left and right, who know full well there is little point focussing their attention on Dublin South, but looking for traction in places like South-Central, and South West.
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Shedite
Jack Charlton Joined: 09 Dec 2011 Status: Online Points: 9829 |
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I wonder if the church wasn't involved if there'd be much opposition to this.
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