The 8th - Repealed! |
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Borussia
Roy Keane Joined: 14 Oct 2010 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 10750 |
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Not the case here - You labelled them as wackos and then asked for the reason. Not the other way around.
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Roberto Baggio
Robbie Keane UNBELIEVABLE JEFF Joined: 28 Jan 2010 Status: Offline Points: 37333 |
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Mickey Harte's reasoning:
He said: “I’ve always felt people in Ireland are very good at supporting each other, looking out for the most vulnerable in society and nobody’s more vulnerable than the unborn. So I’m encouraging you to vote no to save the 8th amendment. The alternative kills babies and wounds the mother. You know what the right choice is.” |
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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All I have asked for is a genuine reason and what I have got is a cop out.
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 10655 |
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This is a more nuanced situation, as it ultimately relates to the very emotive issue of abortion. As such, the battle lines should be drawn away from that, and actually focussed on what it is, a constitutional amendment to repeal a previous amendment which has given rise to confusion, uncertainty, and personal damage. This is why I would love the debate to be had between lawyers, doctors, pervious services users, international experts, and human rights personnel. Those with no expertise, but emotional and political skin in the game are what makes this a very difficult situation, which is going to result in serious bad faith between both sides, huge amounts of mud slinging, and very emotive arguments, which will tug at the public hearts, but not actually progress the debate.
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MC Hammered
Jack Charlton Joined: 05 Oct 2011 Status: Offline Points: 6871 |
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We have always had a great support system here alright. Those Magdalene laundries were super. Good shout Mickey |
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El Puto Amo
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randyrandolph
500 Club la la la Joined: 09 May 2016 Status: Offline Points: 685 |
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it's a highly emotive subject PM. people will quote no for reasons that is not just church led moral doctrine. for the record i cant vote as i have lived in the uk for most of my life. if i could vote i would find it hard to vote yes. incidentally i would have voted yes for introducing same sex marriage. my "difficultly" in voting yes in the abortion question - if i could vote - is down to personal experience. having tried for years to have a baby and experiencing utter heartbreak of a m/c i find terminating a life difficult to stomach - to even think about. for me it's not about what the pope says. that's not to say i would 100% vote "no" - but it means that i find the debate difficult for different reasons. it's not a black and white question. i would argue welcoming debate is better than attacking people.
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bhob
Roy Keane YBIGs Donald Trump Joined: 13 Feb 2009 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 10470 |
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I didn't call them wackos, I simply stated that people who are voting no aren't brave enough to validate their reasons as to why on here and it's pretty apparent why they won't because the no campaign is just full of untruths and shock, mostly fake, imagery, that's pretty much all they have, so they won't post on here why they're voting no. I don't see how I'm antagonising anyone. If I was voting no I'd have the balls to be able to post up why I'm voting no at least.
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armahibee
Liam Brady Joined: 11 Apr 2012 Location: belfast Status: Offline Points: 2028 |
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First of all I'm a nordy so my opinion doesn't count, I'm also a committed secularist and atheist I'm no Catholic wacko..but the whole abolition thing sits uneasy with me. Looking at the termination figures from the scandavian countries for fetuses with downs syndrome it reeks of eugenics.
There's A lot to be said for taking responsibility for your behaviour the elephant in the room being all abortions from my peer group where due to one night stands etc. I believe it will pass because it facilitates the lads getting a no consequences ride and woman more control over there bodies. Kind of win-win. Now I'm pro choice but not for terminations on demand. Which is where we will be at in 15 years Edited by armahibee - 28 Mar 2018 at 12:06pm |
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bhob
Roy Keane YBIGs Donald Trump Joined: 13 Feb 2009 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 10470 |
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Why do people think repealing the 8th will be used as some sort of contraceptive?
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Stickittotheman
Liam Brady Joined: 15 Sep 2015 Status: Offline Points: 2290 |
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Can't vote in this, but if I lived in the south I would vote repeal.
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Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 10655 |
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Its the fact that both sides of the debate, out of the traps have made this about abortion, as opposed to what it should be debated as.
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greenforever
Jack Charlton Joined: 07 Apr 2008 Status: Offline Points: 6342 |
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Your comment just proves the point why people looking at voting no won't or are unlikely to engage in debate. Repealing the 8th will bring in unrestricted abortion starting off with the proposed 12 weeks and then no doubt becoming more liberal. Am I religious No Do I believe in Abortion - no I am strongly anti Have I a right to tell others how to live - No Will I vote yes - probably will be out of the country but I voted in favour of the 8th at the time as I believed it was right, now I would vote to repeal, but would respect other peoples views that are different to mine. |
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I know nothing :-)
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MC Hammered
Jack Charlton Joined: 05 Oct 2011 Status: Offline Points: 6871 |
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Hang on a second, what support was Mickey referring to? |
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El Puto Amo
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pre Madonna
Robbie Keane I am MALDING Joined: 30 Nov 2014 Location: Trumpton Status: Offline Points: 44659 |
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Fair play for giving your reasons but I believe personal choice should be kept out of it. I have no idea how I would feel if my partner was pregnant and didn't want to keep it, ideologically I feel it would be her decision more than mine, but that is irrelevant to this vote, which, as HF rightly said, is about amending the constitution correctly and hopefully, in my opinion, bringing it in line with international human rights recommendations.
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bhob
Roy Keane YBIGs Donald Trump Joined: 13 Feb 2009 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 10470 |
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This is just utter nonsense being peddled by the NO side.
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Offline Points: 10655 |
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These is absolutely no suggestion that any legislation for abortion would go beyond 12 weeks, which is in line with the vast majority of Europe. Anybody who knows a thing or two about pregnancy will know that 12 weeks is actually a very small window, as pregnancy actually is counted almost 4 weeks before conception/implantation etc occurs, which limits the window to make any decision to 6-8 weeks. Beyond that, it will be for the physician to make a call based on the mother's individual medical condition. There is no reason to believe that any post referendum legislation would go beyond the European norm, or reflect the UK.
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Bob Hoskins
Moderator Group Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Status: Offline Points: 20175 |
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I know a few who don't fit that narrative and had an abortion in England
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Romario 2016: And the ticket mafia gets caught! Well, four years ago I had already told the government.
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SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
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Yeah I think the "start" date for the twelve weeks is usually the start of the previous cycle. Conception tends to be about two weeks after that and implantation a few days again after that. The first visible indication is about four weeks after the start of the previous cycle (i.e. the missed period) so it's eight weeks from then. That's my understanding on it.
However, and this does need to be clear, the constitutional amendment will not contain the twelve week limit. The amendment will simply say that the Oireachtas may legislate for termination of pregnancy. The current wording is as follows: "The State acknowledges the right to life of the unborn and, with due regard to the equal right to life of the mother, guarantees in its laws to respect, and, as far as practicable, by its laws to defend and vindicate that right. This subsection shall not limit freedom to travel between the State and another state. This subsection shall not limit freedom to obtain or make available, in the State, subject to such conditions as may be laid down by law, information relating to services lawfully available in another state." The proposed new wording is simply: "Provision may be made by law for the regulation of termination of pregnancy." That is to replace all of the above. The Oireachtas will have the power and ability to legislate on the issue of termination. The recent Supreme Court decision is that the only rights "the unborn" (using the wording of the constitution) has are those specified above: if that is repealed, effectively the unborn will lose any rights they had under the Constitution. Now, all of that being the case, the Government have decided that they are going to pass a bill which allows for termination without reason in the first twelve weeks. However, that limit will be a legal limit only, not a constitutional limit. It would, conceivably, be open to the Oireachtas to legislate for the termination of pregnancy right up until the end of pregnancy, or possibly arguably until the threshold of viability. It is not clear what rights a viable child in the womb would have - that may require addressing in future. I am not sure if the recent decision addressed that. Plus, Supreme Court decisions can be revisited in future cases, in certain circumstances, particularly where there are constitutional issues. Like any referendum on this issue, there is no perfect legal answer and sometimes it is better to leave things to the Oireachtas and the courts rather than trying to be prescriptive in the Constitution. This is clearly an issue where opinions change from generation to generation and the Constitution should not be a periodical, so it is likely best left out of the Constitution. I'll be voting repeal but it needs to be clear what the outcome is - that the Oireachtas are the ones with the power to legislate for termination of pregnancy, not that the Constitution will stipulate that it's grand for the first twelve weeks or in other specified circumstances. Edited by SuperDave84 - 28 Mar 2018 at 1:05pm |
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