Scotland down the years |
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McG
Moderator Group SISAO? What the hell is SISAO? Joined: 27 Jan 2008 Location: Christmas Island Status: Offline Points: 27013 |
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Graeme Sharp 12 caps
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YBIG Table Quiz winner 2016 & 2017
AS YOU WERE McGx |
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Trap junior
Robbie Keane YBIG Minister of Doom & Gloom Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Location: Irish Riviera Status: Offline Points: 39882 |
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Gonna say the two keepers. Craig Gordon? Marshall? EDIT: I posted the answer and then noticed you had posted it already Thick thread for me
Edited by Trap junior - 14 Nov 2020 at 12:46am |
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Pied Piper to: Baldrick, Brendan 88, 9Fingers, Borussia and more...
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ErsatzThistle
Liam Brady Joined: 05 Nov 2013 Location: Glasgow Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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Both. The pool of players Vogts had to pick from was simply appalling. The worst lot we've ever had. A lot of them were dreadful footballers who couldn't do the basics properly, like for example Kevin Kyle. Vogts also went scavenging for "granny rule" players like Scott Dobie and Robbie Stockdale but they were even worse ! He got so desperate for new, good players that he even appealed to FIFA to allow Alan Thompson, Lorenzo Amoruso, Didier Agathe and Stefan Klos to be declared eligible for Scotland ! Seriously. It was a horrible couple of years. France (5-0), South Korea (4-1), the Netherlands (6-0) and Wales (4-0) all used us as shooting practice. We lost a barrel load of friendly matches (including one against Ireland) and a key qualifier to Lithuania (1-0). Then there were also draws against teams such as the Faroes Islands (2-2), New Zealand (1-1), and Moldova (1-1). Vogts was forever tinkering around with the XI and the formation, he never settled on anything. He also never became fully fluent in English and so there were communication issues. For some unexplained reason he only gave Dougie Freedman one cap and completely ignored Charlie Miller and Robbie Winters despite them playing well for their clubs. He played a lot of guys in positions they were not comfortable with, strikers on the wing and the kind of thing. It didn't help either that three of his few decent players - Kenny Miller, Gary Naysmith and Barry Ferguson - all suffered bad injuries as well during his time in charge. Another key player, David Weir, went away sulking and refusing to play for Scotland after Vogts criticised him, Weir did not return until Walter Smith became manger. One thing I will say for Vogts though was that he frequently did give young Scots a chance. A lot of them didn't work out sadly but some of those that did in the long term were - James McFadden, Darren Fletcher, Craig Gordon, Gary Caldwell and David Marshall - all of whom he gave debuts to. And although not a young player, Vogts did find Graham Alexander who became a reliable player for us and a TA favourite. So that's the rundown of the Vogts nightmare we had between 2002 and 2004. I'll end on a lighter note (Germany have just beaten us 2-1 in highly controversial circumstances and Christian Dailly has something he'd like to say to the German players) "Christian, Christian !!!"
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belt
Davey Langan Fantasy Football Champion 17/18 Joined: 23 Jul 2015 Location: Dublin Status: Offline Points: 817 |
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What was the issue under Bertie? Was it him or the quality of player he had?
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JUICEBOMB
Liam Brady Joined: 06 Oct 2011 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 2104 |
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Same.
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hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard
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sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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At least Bertie Votes wasn't the actual Prime Minister of your country
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ErsatzThistle
Liam Brady Joined: 05 Nov 2013 Location: Glasgow Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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Take it from someone who is used to having his head in his hands in sheer anger and frustration when it comes to his national team- stick with Stephen Kenny. He's got the right idea about how football should be played. YBIG didn't have to go through the Berti Vogts years We had guys like (see if you can remember any of these) Kevin Kyle, Maurice Ross, Rab Douglas, Scott Dobie, Scott Severin, Michael Stewart, Gareth Williams, Lee Wilkie, Stevie Thompson, Paul Devlin, Robbie Stockdale, and Stevie f**king Crawford etc etc etc turning out for us. It was utter pish. A truly horrible few years. I should add to be fair, that those aforementioned lads did try their best of course but none of them were anywhere near good enough for international football. It was horrible and we were the laughing stock of European football. Michael Stewart and Stevie Thompson have turned out to be pretty good pundits though. Here's a quick quiz question for you - who are the only two players from the current Scotland squad that made their debuts under Berti Vogts ? (hint: they both play the same position) Answer: David Marshall and Craig Gordon
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Trap junior
Robbie Keane YBIG Minister of Doom & Gloom Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Location: Irish Riviera Status: Offline Points: 39882 |
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Would you recommend we keep going or just pack in international football?
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Pied Piper to: Baldrick, Brendan 88, 9Fingers, Borussia and more...
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ErsatzThistle
Liam Brady Joined: 05 Nov 2013 Location: Glasgow Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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IIRC he had won two (Cyprus & San Marino) and lost four (Belguim & Russia). Conceded a lot of goals too. It taught Clarke that we couldn't play with four at the back and several players were either past it or not good enough.
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Baldrick
Robbie Keane Peyton-tly Pedantic Joined: 18 Sep 2008 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 32823 |
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exactly.
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AKA pedantic kunt
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Denis Irwin
Robbie Keane Stay Home & watch Lethal Weapon Joined: 03 Feb 2008 Location: Ath Cliath Status: Offline Points: 37960 |
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Lost 4 won 2. 2 win against Cyprus and San Marino 2 of the defeats were 3-0 and 4-0 losses to Belgium while the other 2 were 2-1 and 4-0 defeats to Russia Edited by Denis Irwin - 13 Nov 2020 at 9:33pm |
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Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".
Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn |
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Baldrick
Robbie Keane Peyton-tly Pedantic Joined: 18 Sep 2008 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 32823 |
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How was Clarke doing after 6 games into his reign?
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AKA pedantic kunt
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PanteirA
Jack Charlton Joined: 29 Jul 2012 Location: Ciarrai Status: Offline Points: 6744 |
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Christies interview after the game was a beautiful thing to watch. Its what everyone of us would want from our players in terms of what it means to them. It will make their group more interesting next year. They could give England a really tough game. Clark has done a very good job with them
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Larsson7
Joe Lapira Joined: 29 Dec 2009 Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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At the moment I don't think Scotland/ Ireland are really much of a muchness at all. Tierney (Arsenal), Mc Tominay, (Utd), Roberston (Liverpool), Billy Gilmour (Chelsea) are all relatively young players finding a niche at Elite Clubs this is the stuff of dreams for ROI fans at the moment. With a strong supporting cast of Mc Ginn, Stuart Armstrong,Ryan Fraser,James Forrest, Callum Mc Gregor, Ryan Christie they have the makings of a very decent first 11, despite the notable lack of a marquee striker,or top level centre back. In addition they have a manager with vast experience of top level football, with clubs like Liverpool, Chelsea, Newcastle, West ham, West brom, Villa etc, and a pragmatic streak which masks scotlands short comings, Its way too early to call Kenny but every game he manages at the moment is the biggest game of his career and he doesn't have a blueprint that is proven to work for any level outside of LOI. Clarke is only 14 games into his Scotland tenure so they're hardly street ahead in their progression.
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Terzino
500 Club la la la Joined: 06 Apr 2016 Status: Offline Points: 665 |
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Don't get the anthem comment. The most passionate singing I ever saw was from Brazil right before Germany smashed them 7-1 at the World Cup.
And fair play to the Scots. A huge amount of their fans have probably never experienced a tournament. And even the whole "will they make it out of their group" jinx must mean nothing to them at this stage.
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sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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Their players are better They have Robertson, Tierney, McGinn, McTominay and a few lads who are decent enough for Celtic And they always have Kenny Miller to call in in an emergency
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Baldrick
Robbie Keane Peyton-tly Pedantic Joined: 18 Sep 2008 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 32823 |
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if Ireland qualified last night against Slovakia you would have seen the same passion from the Irish players.
Scotland won two peno shoot outs to qualify one at home one away. We lost our peno shoot out away. Slovakia and Serbia are much of a muchness and Scotland and Ireland are much of a muchness. If we won our own shootout and Scotland lost theirs they could have easily been in Wembley been pumped by England. It’s tiny margins for 2nd and 3rs seeds. Scotland are just further down the road of their new manager and have the sticky part and bedding in period over and done with. I don’t think for a second their players are more passionate than ours.
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AKA pedantic kunt
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sid waddell
Roy Keane On a dark desert highway Joined: 20 Nov 2009 Status: Offline Points: 12173 |
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They were reading the subtitles and got confused
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